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Post by fenris on Jan 22, 2017 8:12:47 GMT
Except I just looked at videos from both encounters, and that's only one way to interpret what he says. He says "it was supposed to be golden," but that could mean it turned black once they entered, not before. I imagine they'd have noticed if it was black before they got in...
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 22, 2017 12:06:16 GMT
Corypheus' memories in CoJ: "Did the others never return from the Black City? There is no record even of our names. We are vilified by legend. They spit on our deeds and claim we brought darkness into the world. We discovered the darkness. We claimed it as our own, let it permeate our being. If the others have not returned, they are lost. I am alone in my glory."
Clearly he seems unaware of any other intelligent darkspawn when the Wardens knew there was more than one back when Corypheus was discovered. They just saw him as the greatest of these, effectively their leader, which was of course true in terms of the assault on the Eternal City. Actually this does seem to contradict somewhat the attitude of Corypheus in DA2 where his speech on being freed seems to hark back to the time when he first awakened on Thedas after returning from the city.
"Is this some dream I awake from? Am I in dwarven lands? Why seem their roads so empty? You offered the power of the gods themselves."
This last one ties in with "it was meant to be Golden", and seems more of a complaint about what they found as a result of being enticed to enter the Golden City. The earlier quote suggests that he and his friends had no problem with finding the city black because they acquired the power they sought as a result. So in that respect he does seem to have convinced himself that the mission was a success.
Then there is the puzzle as to why he thinks he needs to return to the Black City to take up the alleged vacant throne. What exactly is that going to achieve? If he has already absorbed the power of the darkness, what more did he hope to get from returning there? What is the significance of the throne? Why did they take no part in the 1st Blight and only seemed to emerge once Dumat was dead? The Wardens definitely didn't discover Corypheus until 12 years after the death of Dumat.
He also seems to get very confused in our final confrontation when he calls on Dumat for aid. "If you ever truly existed, aid me now." Surely by now he knows that Dumat is dead? Or does he assume, like Abelas, or the Avvar, that his god is not truly dead?
Another curious thing. At the precise time that Andraste was having her first encounters with the Maker, the Wardens had their first encounter with Corypheus. Andraste was already preaching about the Maker in Ferelden while the Wardens were studying Corypheus. Then only a year after the Wardens seal Corypheus away, Andraste's crusade against the Imperium begins in earnest.
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Post by oyabun on Jan 22, 2017 16:38:34 GMT
Except I just looked at videos from both encounters, and that's only one way to interpret what he says. He says "it was supposed to be golden," but that could mean it turned black once they entered, not before. I imagine they'd have noticed if it was black before they got in... If it was corrupted only in the inside they would have noticed it too late to avoid it,or they corrupted it as the Chantry claims via red lyrium.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 22, 2017 17:32:26 GMT
The Chantry say nothing about red lyrium since no one knew about it until Hawke found the stuff. According to the Chantry it is the Magisters' sin in entering heaven that corrupts it because they should not be there. It also states: "Violently they were cast down for no mortal may walk bodily in the realm of dreams, bearing the mark of their crime." This suggests that it is a sin to walk physically in the Fade, let alone the Golden City, and this is why they were punished with being darkspawn, yet our Inquisitor has done it twice without any apparent ill effects, as did their entire party and of course prior to the Veil, the elves were doing it all the time. It was only when Andruil went to the Void that things got out of hand. You also have to think that if there had been a separate Golden City in the Fade that was not Arlathan, would not the Evanuris have tried to reach it? When of course what the elves believe is that the Eternal (Golden) City was the home of their gods. So far what the Dalish have retained of their history has been much closer to the truth than the Chant.
Now Hessarian, who may know more about the actual facts from records in Tevinter archives, suggests that the Magisters did take the corruption with them to heaven and corrupted it and this was not symbolic of their sin but something tangible. It also speaks of the Old Gods calling from their ancient prisons encouraging their folly and "On blackened wings does deceit take flight, the first of my children lost to night." This suggests that the Old Gods are already corrupted in their prisons. And some Grey Wardens believe that at least some of the Magisters may already have discovered Dumat in his prison before they went to the City and he aid them in getting there, so if he was already corrupt then that would account for the corruption they took with them.
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Post by dayze on Jan 27, 2017 1:19:30 GMT
Well; there's reference to one of the old Dalish gods getting blighted. And I think it was basically implied their enemies probably got their powers from the blight in some way.
I think the Avvar have a myth of a shadow woman who had an army of monsters in the past.
So there is the possibility of their having been darkspawn a long time ago.
The original dwarves who were mindless slaves of the titans might have been the precursors of the dark spawn.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Jan 27, 2017 1:41:21 GMT
Corypheus' memories in CoJ: "Did the others never return from the Black City? There is no record even of our names. We are vilified by legend. They spit on our deeds and claim we brought darkness into the world. We discovered the darkness. We claimed it as our own, let it permeate our being. If the others have not returned, they are lost. I am alone in my glory."
Clearly he seems unaware of any other intelligent darkspawn when the Wardens knew there was more than one back when Corypheus was discovered. They just saw him as the greatest of these, effectively their leader, which was of course true in terms of the assault on the Eternal City. Actually this does seem to contradict somewhat the attitude of Corypheus in DA2 where his speech on being freed seems to hark back to the time when he first awakened on Thedas after returning from the city.
"Is this some dream I awake from? Am I in dwarven lands? Why seem their roads so empty? You offered the power of the gods themselves."
This last one ties in with "it was meant to be Golden", and seems more of a complaint about what they found as a result of being enticed to enter the Golden City. The earlier quote suggests that he and his friends had no problem with finding the city black because they acquired the power they sought as a result. So in that respect he does seem to have convinced himself that the mission was a success.
Then there is the puzzle as to why he thinks he needs to return to the Black City to take up the alleged vacant throne. What exactly is that going to achieve? If he has already absorbed the power of the darkness, what more did he hope to get from returning there? What is the significance of the throne? Why did they take no part in the 1st Blight and only seemed to emerge once Dumat was dead? The Wardens definitely didn't discover Corypheus until 12 years after the death of Dumat.
He also seems to get very confused in our final confrontation when he calls on Dumat for aid. "If you ever truly existed, aid me now." Surely by now he knows that Dumat is dead? Or does he assume, like Abelas, or the Avvar, that his god is not truly dead?
Another curious thing. At the precise time that Andraste was having her first encounters with the Maker, the Wardens had their first encounter with Corypheus. Andraste was already preaching about the Maker in Ferelden while the Wardens were studying Corypheus. Then only a year after the Wardens seal Corypheus away, Andraste's crusade against the Imperium begins in earnest. Don't forget the Architect. I can't help but believe he was one of the original magisters along with Corypheus though he seems not to remember anything about his origins.
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