ioannisdenton
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 7, 2016 20:50:12 GMT
Seriously :I LOVED DA2 but my initial playthrough left terrible impressions. However the game grew on me once I knew it's falts. Also I LOVED Hawke, the music of the estate, the wounded coast, and to this day I pretty much prefer da2 ti Dao. Last but not least I find the DA2 plot fantastic. also the combat on nightmare it's great.
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Post by Addictress on Aug 7, 2016 21:18:07 GMT
Kirkwall did seem smaller than it should have been. One of my favorite concept arts is this one: I would love to have seen that Kirkwall in DA2. If you all will recall, we also didn't get to experience very much of Denerim other than a couple of areas and come back alleys. Orlais was also a disappointment. The DA team has not done large cities very well. In comparison, I thought that the space station thing in ME1 was fantastic, and ENORMOUS, and really seemed like a real city. I'd love to see something like that in a DA game. I always wonder why people complain about Kirkwall since Kirkwall was a hell of a lot better than Val Royeaux, and I think a little better than Denerim. Also, I really liked the architecture style of Kirkwall.
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Post by Addictress on Aug 7, 2016 21:24:43 GMT
And honestly, Kirkwall was much more lively than Val Royeaux. People greeted Hawke as she passed. Your companions regularly had party banter. There were more quest areas and areas with scripted events in them. Random enemy spawns at night also kept things lively.
I don't know, it didn't feel that dead to me. There was always a good story lifting everything up, scripted events and Easter eggs to fill the city in.
Also, in 2010, I don't even think a great many RPGs existed with huge cities yet...at least it wasn't an expectation. Skyrim came out the following year.
So when Inquisition came out in 2014, I had the expectation of interactive cities. No mercy, no mercy at all.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2016 21:30:53 GMT
Kirkwall did seem smaller than it should have been. One of my favorite concept arts is this one: I would love to have seen that Kirkwall in DA2. If you all will recall, we also didn't get to experience very much of Denerim other than a couple of areas and come back alleys. Orlais was also a disappointment. The DA team has not done large cities very well. In comparison, I thought that the space station thing in ME1 was fantastic, and ENORMOUS, and really seemed like a real city. I'd love to see something like that in a DA game. I always wonder why people complain about Kirkwall since Kirkwall was a hell of a lot better than Val Royeaux, and I think a little better than Denerim. Also, I really liked the architecture style of Kirkwall.
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ioannisdenton
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 7, 2016 21:42:10 GMT
I always wonder why people complain about Kirkwall since Kirkwall was a hell of a lot better than Val Royeaux, and I think a little better than Denerim. Also, I really liked the architecture style of Kirkwall. Yeap Val royeaux was meh. But Kirkwall was pretty much most of da2. On the contrary Val royeaux was only a lesser hub of Dai. The game had other fantastic zones as well
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ioannisdenton
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 7, 2016 21:48:47 GMT
On Dai I choose da2 decoration for skyhold most of the time. I like that eagle like statues and Kirkwall concept architecture a lot
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2016 21:50:56 GMT
Val Royeaux too fancy for me.
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 7, 2016 21:56:10 GMT
[/spoiler] [/spoiler][/quote][/quote][/quote]Yeap Val royeaux was meh. But Kirkwall was pretty much most of da2. On the contrary Val royeaux was only a lesser hub of Dai. The game had other fantastic zones as well [/quote]Val Royeaux too fancy for me. [/quote] the thing I disliked most on Kirkwall was the color palette of lowdown and desktop. Too much brown. . Hightower and the gallows were great. Also anyone else noticed that the brothels house sign post which was a rose actually looked like a woman's genitalia? Lol
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Post by ioannisdenton on Aug 7, 2016 21:58:12 GMT
Stupid autocorrect!! Lowtown and darktown...
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2016 22:09:25 GMT
Stupid autocorrect!! Lowtown and darktown... Well, the poor neighborhoods are mostly not very colorful ... (I hate autocorrect)
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Post by Nightscrawl on Aug 8, 2016 3:59:33 GMT
Kirkwall did seem smaller than it should have been. One of my favorite concept arts is this one: I would love to have seen that Kirkwall in DA2. If you all will recall, we also didn't get to experience very much of Denerim other than a couple of areas and come back alleys. Orlais was also a disappointment. The DA team has not done large cities very well. In comparison, I thought that the space station thing in ME1 was fantastic, and ENORMOUS, and really seemed like a real city. I'd love to see something like that in a DA game. I always wonder why people complain about Kirkwall since Kirkwall was a hell of a lot better than Val Royeaux, and I think a little better than Denerim. Also, I really liked the architecture style of Kirkwall. It's fine in Act 1 when we're first running around and such. As they say, familiarity breeds contempt. In DA2 Kirkwall was ALL there was, whereas in DAO we had multiple locations, including an entire underground city/region to explore with Orzammar and the deep roads. In DAI, while Orlais was greatly lacking in its presentation, we had so much more to do in the game and places to go. I've also played DA2 about a dozen times, so that doesn't help much. On the other hand, I happen to really like Skyhold...
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Post by natureguy85 on Aug 8, 2016 4:46:44 GMT
Yeah but i think this is when you consider how little time they had to deliver the goods. There's a lot they could have done to get those points across, if they had the time. Because honestly, and i doubt the DA team would disagree much with this, there could have been more voice work, moodier lighting and coloring. Take the third act with the Champion title you were referencing. There should have been more voice-work for whispers and revering the PC as they walked by, especially in the Viscount's Keep and passing by guards. The coloring could have been brighter in the Keep and Hawke's Estate. The Estate also could have had more gifts bestowed upon it for the sake of getting on the Champion's good side. Lighting, in general, should have been brighter in these areas. A lot of this they probably had the budgets for but no time to think over what they done. Just produce, produce, produce. Time should have been a luxury thanks to the success of DAO. I'm glad you mentioned "time" because that was the problem in game. The time skips really hurt the story. You skipped over the first year struggle (which would have been the best time to characterize Carver and show legitimate reasons for his frustration), you skip over the advancement to nobility and hightown, and then skip over the Champion honeymoon period. By the time you get into Act 3, Hawke's been Champion for 3 years. Do people still really care that much if he hasn't done anything since? It hurt the characters too. Hawke has years worth of relationships and experiences with these people but we only get to view a few small windows of those interactions. Yeah, these are the major events, but there were probably plenty of good times at the Hanged Man. (I first wrote "hanging out" but I generally hate puns) or other places. Contrast Origins where the characters are brought together by the adventure and the only thing we don't see is what happens while they travel on the map. IMO, you need to accept that Hawke's life is a shitshow to enjoy this story. I do enjoy it, because I'm ok with that and with playing that out in the game. It's definitely a hurdle for a lot of players, though. It was an interesting way to tell a story, I think they don't get enough props for that. For me, it's not so much that Hawke's life is tough, it's that he's so powerless over it from beginning to end. That's a great way to start, but not to end, especially when the story is telling me that Hawke is gaining power. The character being powerless the entire time isn't automatically a bad story either, but I don't think it suits a video game well, where the player is the protagonist.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 8, 2016 12:22:56 GMT
Yeah but i think this is when you consider how little time they had to deliver the goods. There's a lot they could have done to get those points across, if they had the time. Because honestly, and i doubt the DA team would disagree much with this, there could have been more voice work, moodier lighting and coloring. Take the third act with the Champion title you were referencing. There should have been more voice-work for whispers and revering the PC as they walked by, especially in the Viscount's Keep and passing by guards. The coloring could have been brighter in the Keep and Hawke's Estate. The Estate also could have had more gifts bestowed upon it for the sake of getting on the Champion's good side. Lighting, in general, should have been brighter in these areas. A lot of this they probably had the budgets for but no time to think over what they done. Just produce, produce, produce. Time should have been a luxury thanks to the success of DAO. I'm glad you mentioned "time" because that was the problem in game. The time skips really hurt the story. You skipped over the first year struggle (which would have been the best time to characterize Carver and show legitimate reasons for his frustration), you skip over the advancement to nobility and hightown, and then skip over the Champion honeymoon period. By the time you get into Act 3, Hawke's been Champion for 3 years. Do people still really care that much if he hasn't done anything since? It hurt the characters too. Hawke has years worth of relationships and experiences with these people but we only get to view a few small windows of those interactions. Yeah, these are the major events, but there were probably plenty of good times at the Hanged Man. (I first wrote "hanging out" but I generally hate puns) or other places. Contrast Origins where the characters are brought together by the adventure and the only thing we don't see is what happens while they travel on the map. IMO, you need to accept that Hawke's life is a shitshow to enjoy this story. I do enjoy it, because I'm ok with that and with playing that out in the game. It's definitely a hurdle for a lot of players, though. It was an interesting way to tell a story, I think they don't get enough props for that. For me, it's not so much that Hawke's life is tough, it's that he's so powerless over it from beginning to end. That's a great way to start, but not to end, especially when the story is telling me that Hawke is gaining power. The character being powerless the entire time isn't automatically a bad story either, but I don't think it suits a video game well, where the player is the protagonist. You're right in many things, blame the hasty development. It's very sad. There are many missed opportunity in this game; it could have been much better! But I like Hawke's story and fate. I like this frustration at the end, it's make the game very real for me. ("That's what happens, when you try to change things. Things change. You can't always control how." – Hawke in the Inquisition ).
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Post by Monk on Aug 8, 2016 14:47:54 GMT
Yeah but i think this is when you consider how little time they had to deliver the goods. There's a lot they could have done to get those points across, if they had the time. Because honestly, and i doubt the DA team would disagree much with this, there could have been more voice work, moodier lighting and coloring. Take the third act with the Champion title you were referencing. There should have been more voice-work for whispers and revering the PC as they walked by, especially in the Viscount's Keep and passing by guards. The coloring could have been brighter in the Keep and Hawke's Estate. The Estate also could have had more gifts bestowed upon it for the sake of getting on the Champion's good side. Lighting, in general, should have been brighter in these areas. A lot of this they probably had the budgets for but no time to think over what they done. Just produce, produce, produce. Time should have been a luxury thanks to the success of DAO. I'm glad you mentioned "time" because that was the problem in game. The time skips really hurt the story. You skipped over the first year struggle (which would have been the best time to characterize Carver and show legitimate reasons for his frustration), you skip over the advancement to nobility and hightown, and then skip over the Champion honeymoon period. By the time you get into Act 3, Hawke's been Champion for 3 years. Do people still really care that much if he hasn't done anything since? It hurt the characters too. Hawke has years worth of relationships and experiences with these people but we only get to view a few small windows of those interactions. Yeah, these are the major events, but there were probably plenty of good times at the Hanged Man. (I first wrote "hanging out" but I generally hate puns) or other places. Contrast Origins where the characters are brought together by the adventure and the only thing we don't see is what happens while they travel on the map. IMO, you need to accept that Hawke's life is a shitshow to enjoy this story. I do enjoy it, because I'm ok with that and with playing that out in the game. It's definitely a hurdle for a lot of players, though. It was an interesting way to tell a story, I think they don't get enough props for that. For me, it's not so much that Hawke's life is tough, it's that he's so powerless over it from beginning to end. That's a great way to start, but not to end, especially when the story is telling me that Hawke is gaining power. The character being powerless the entire time isn't automatically a bad story either, but I don't think it suits a video game well, where the player is the protagonist. If you think about it, it's like they had a whole trilogy set for Hawke but they only wanted him for a game so they only did the major events to keep with the formula they set out with the Warden. Unfortunately, the only problem is, there's so much story they had to go over they had to compress it to make sure it fit within the constraints of the game they were wanting to put out. And much like photographs when you compress them, the little details get lost like Carver's struggle and Verric's friendship. They don't grow on you. They're forced. What i will give them props for is fixing it somewhat with the DLCs because with them you get extra family time and learn more about the characters and the family in general.
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Post by Addictress on Aug 8, 2016 18:48:47 GMT
I always wonder why people complain about Kirkwall since Kirkwall was a hell of a lot better than Val Royeaux, and I think a little better than Denerim. Also, I really liked the architecture style of Kirkwall. It's fine in Act 1 when we're first running around and such. As they say, familiarity breeds contempt. In DA2 Kirkwall was ALL there was, whereas in DAO we had multiple locations, including an entire underground city/region to explore with Orzammar and the deep roads. In DAI, while Orlais was greatly lacking in its presentation, we had so much more to do in the game and places to go. I've also played DA2 about a dozen times, so that doesn't help much. On the other hand, I happen to really like Skyhold... I guess collecting shards and killing enemies with a poorly implemented combat system will kill my experience with vast regions, whereas one small location, even if it's the only location the whole game, feels more rewarding to me when filled with fun, well-staged combat, cut scenes and scripted events, and good story. It's like watching an intelligent play whose entirety takes place in a single house versus watching a crappy theatrical production that has plenty of special effects but is essentially stupid.
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Post by kizanare on Aug 8, 2016 22:58:21 GMT
Even without the budget it was still the best one, IMHO.
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Post by Rifneno on Aug 10, 2016 19:29:41 GMT
Naw.
The story sucked. More time might've made it suck a little less, but it wouldn't have made it not suck. The meat and potatoes of any RPG is the story. If the story was great, I could handle the stupid rooftop hooligans and the repeating dungeons. I mean, I loved Xenogears. But DA2's story is nothing but holes. Here, I'll prove it. How the hell did Anders get his hands on the recipe for the black powder? That is THE MOST CLOSELY GUARDED SECRET IN THE WORLD and he just pops up with it out of nowhere. This makes Jeff Goldblum hacking an alien internet with a Macbook look realistic. But how often have you seen that particularly hole pointed out? Aside from myself, I never have. Because the plot is so full of gaping chasms that your mind never even goes to things that could possibly have a reasonable explanation.
The main theme of the game was mages vs. templars, yet for the story to work Kirkwall had to be a portal to Hell that's capable of corrupting damn near anyone without anyone in the story actually noticing. Cullen's spent his life in Kinloch Hold. He knows how many of them go axe-crazy, blud-magiky, or grow tentacles in a normal place. Yet after a decade in Kirkwall he doesn't notice there's something about Kirkwall that's driving the mages mad. And he's not alone, the whole city's full of foreigners who should notice when the TV people pay their children a visit. But no one does. With a completely straight face, the game tells us that thousands of people are living in a portal to Hell and none of them even noticed. I can't even take this drivel seriously.
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Post by vertigomez on Aug 10, 2016 22:55:23 GMT
Anders didn't have the recipe for blackpowder. It was a magical bomb, hence the blinding pink light.
And nobody notices that Sunnydale is a supernatural hellhole either, so I can't fault the plebs.
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 10, 2016 23:07:49 GMT
Yeah, magical bomb... but drakestone is very likely the Thedas version of sulfur, sela petrae is saltpeter. That's what Anders gathers in his collection quest. Add charcoal, and you get blackpowder, which he supposedly had no recipe for. I think it's a plothole bomb.
And wasn't the thin-veil hellhole Kirkwall only some last minute asspull when the writers noticed that they had forgotten to add some sane mages to their story?
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Post by Rifneno on Aug 10, 2016 23:47:20 GMT
Anders didn't have the recipe for blackpowder. It was a magical bomb, hence the blinding pink light. And nobody notices that Sunnydale is a supernatural hellhole either, so I can't fault the plebs. No. He had the black powder. That's just all there is to it. Maybe he added some magic, or the cutscene was for rule of cool rather than accuracy. The black powder is a very real thing, an explosive in ancient China. It was made of saltpeter, charcoal, and sulfur. The three things Anders' third act question is to collect.
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Post by nikkolas on Aug 11, 2016 13:30:25 GMT
I love Dragon Age II. It's very much the Mass Effect 2 of the DA series in intention, if not quality. It was BioWare realizing "ya know, we're not very good at this whole big plots thing." And they're not. No one like sOrigins because of the fascinating generic evil horde or Mass Effect because of the generic aliens of doom. They like these games because of the characters. ME2 is one of the most celebrated games of all time and rightly so. It's a masterpiece and possibly the greatest video game I've ever played. DA2 is very similar. Tells a more low-key story that is primarily centered on character dynamics and interaction instead of "the world is in danger! AGAIN!"
DA2 also established the Qun and Qunari as hands down the most interesting thing in the whole series for me. It's rather ironic that the one game without a qunari companion (Tallis doesn't count exactly since she's not in the main game) does more for making the qunari appealing and intriguing than any other.
Also the music! I wish more people would appreciate DA2's fantastic soundtrack.
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Post by our_lady_of_darkness on Aug 11, 2016 14:39:10 GMT
I was mightily surprised (in a good way) when I first played DA2, after having heard all those "worst game ever" comments. All flaws aside (the environment, III Act), it still comes strong in terms of writing, particularly characters. Currently I'm finishing my another DA:O playthrough, and then, obviously, I'll play DA2, and with pleasure.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2016 15:57:29 GMT
I was very impressed with the game we got; especially with only 18 months development.
DA2 held onto the DA:O lore while feeling like a very different game, it had great characters, a decent story (but an awful ending with Meredith), excellent dialogue, the friendship/rivalry system, the Hawke personality mechanic, and excellent gameplay.
However, all the romances were terribly done and the settings were repetitive. Yet I never felt bored while playing.
Ex: With DA:I, I often felt that I had to go through this tediousness to get to something interesting. That never happened in DA2. You were always doing something engaging.
Subjectively, DA2 is my favorite. More objectively, it's hard to say. I felt DA:O's combat system was terrible but people seem to like it. If it were different, maybe I'd feel that was the best game. DA:O definitely had the best story. I certainly don't think DA:I is the best by any measure.
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Post by Zjarcal on Aug 12, 2016 3:54:40 GMT
I'd probably still like DA:O better even if DA2 had lived to its full potential. That being said, I still do love DA2, warts and all, and think it's an impressive achievement given the crazy short time it was developed in.
The DA2 dlc though, now that was top notch, way better than DA:O's dlc (to be fair, not exactly and accomplishment, DA:O's dlc was terribad).
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Post by natureguy85 on Aug 12, 2016 4:18:34 GMT
I love Dragon Age II. It's very much the Mass Effect 2 of the DA series in intention, if not quality. It was BioWare realizing "ya know, we're not very good at this whole big plots thing." And they're not. No one like sOrigins because of the fascinating generic evil horde or Mass Effect because of the generic aliens of doom. They like these games because of the characters. ME2 is one of the most celebrated games of all time and rightly so. It's a masterpiece and possibly the greatest video game I've ever played. DA2 is very similar. Tells a more low-key story that is primarily centered on character dynamics and interaction instead of "the world is in danger! AGAIN!" DA2 also established the Qun and Qunari as hands down the most interesting thing in the whole series for me. It's rather ironic that the one game without a qunari companion (Tallis doesn't count exactly since she's not in the main game) does more for making the qunari appealing and intriguing than any other. Also the music! I wish more people would appreciate DA2's fantastic soundtrack. There is something to this but Mass Effect had an excellent plot and Dragon Age Origins was a good example of a classic adventure story. Mass Effect 2 had a garbage plot and Dragon Age 2 had a good idea but executed it terribly at almost every turn. You are right about the character focus, but in Origins you got to shape the Warden more and Mass Effect was not as character focused as the later entries.
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