Beregond5
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Post by Beregond5 on Mar 12, 2017 10:32:17 GMT
I kind of wish that we had more than one option, because both the Arishok and Solas are for me great antagonists. The Arishok is a big threat and he's certainly hostile, but he also values honesty and a person who isn't afraid to own up to their actions or to at least try and understand his people. The potential of earning his respect adds depth to his character and, if anything, I do like the fact that I feel my characters have to fight him *not* because he's teh!evil, but because both parties have been pushed against the proverbial wall and they have to fight for what they stand for. He wants the tome and cleanse the city from the filth he sees, you want to protect the innocent people and your friends.
With Solas, circumstances are different, but it ends up more or less the same way. Solas joined the Inquisition because he didn't want the world to come to an end, certainly not by Corypheus' hand. However, it's obvious that he didn't really consider the Inquisition 'people': just pawns to use in this big board of chess against the enemy in order to get back his orb. If you take the time to earn his approval, he is pleasantly surprised to see in the Quizzie an inquisitive (pun only semi-intended) and bright mind; he even starts regretting on some level that he actually manipulates the Quizzie for his own ends, since they *can* be friends. Even so... he has the strength of his beliefs, and *his* people take priority. All he can do is, with the right prompt, to plead the Quizzie to find some other way for their conflict to be resolved, because he certainly can't see one. ('I would treasure the chance to be proven wrong again, my friend...'). Yes, I'm a sucker for good drama, which is why I voted for him. XD
Loghain... He had the potential to be just that kind of character: an antagonist who would be friends with the PC, had the circumstances been different. In fact, if you decide to spare him, it showcases that possibility. It's just that it comes really late in the game, which kind of spoils it for me. Shame, really.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 23:01:23 GMT
Meredith, actually. She's quite a tragic character, having her entire family murdered by her sister. She wasn't evil-- like Loghain, she wasn't complex and gray; She always thought that she was doing the right thing. She didn't hate mages, she viewed them as cursed; and, just felt sorry for them. You would have to put someone with a contagious-- and, deadly disease in a quarantine-- but, it doesn't mean she can't feel sympathy for them.
But, trying to defend the people-- she became the very thing she sought to protect them against. The Lyrium sword drove her insane. And her incredible voice acting, really strengthened her character-- In my opinion, it was even better than Loghain. Subtle, yet commanding.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 12, 2017 23:25:07 GMT
Meredith, actually. She's quite a tragic character, having her entire family murdered by her sister. She wasn't evil-- like Loghain, she wasn't a evil character; She always thought that she was doing the right thing. She didn't hate mages, she viewed them as cursed; and, just felt sorry for them. You would have to put someone with a contagious-- and deadly, disease in a quarantine-- but, it doesn't mean she can't feel sympathy for them. But, trying to defend the people-- she became the very thing she sought to protect them against. The Lyrium sword drove her insane. And her incredible voice acting, really strengthened her character-- In my opinion, even better than Loghain. Subtle, yet commanding. Yes, Meredith"s not evil, just paranoid. Without his paranoia (juvenile trauma), he would be a great Templar. But probably without her paranoia, she wouldn't have chosen this life. With such a background, however, she should not have to choose the Templars' life: she was not suited for this. Let's be honest, he was cruel and law-breaker also without red lyrium. Karl, Samson/Maddox and Alrik the proof, but Kirkwall was infamous for the Circle's cruelty, Meredth's cruelty. I like her fate: she fell as the blood mages – she yielded to the temptation because was convinced that she is stronger than the power, what she believed, that can handle. Meredith's character is very good. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 2:31:56 GMT
The guy who tossed goats. It was an epic battle. He went from regular plain goats to mountain goats, then upgrade to AoE goats, then I had to toss a cow after cow, and as a Qunari, it made me weep. I could not roll the critical cowkill in that battle, so I ran out of the large domesticated ungulates, so Iron Bull had to do. Tough son of a goat! But I respected him in the end. Yeah... good times.
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Post by Melcara on Apr 24, 2017 12:16:32 GMT
I love how Corypheus has zero votes, even though he's the main antagonist  |
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Post by Catilina on Apr 24, 2017 12:37:56 GMT
I love how Corypheus has zero votes, even though he's the main antagonist Sadly, Corypheus was lame... Hawke: I'd like to know who this "Corypheus" is. With a name like that, I know he's bound to go "Muahaha" at some point, I just know it. And really? More blood? Why can't it ever be spit or a lock of hair? ...and he was that "muahaha" antagonist... (I like Hawke so much!) Seriously. I like Corypheus better in Legacy, when was a confused ancient Tevinter ... thing. |
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Post by Melcara on Apr 24, 2017 13:27:04 GMT
I love how Corypheus has zero votes, even though he's the main antagonist Sadly, Corypheus was lame... Hawke: I'd like to know who this "Corypheus" is. With a name like that, I know he's bound to go "Muahaha" at some point, I just know it. And really? More blood? Why can't it ever be spit or a lock of hair? ...and he was that "muahaha" antagonist... (I like Hawke so much!) Seriously. I like Corypheus better in Legacy, when was a confused ancient Tevinter ... thing. He really was. He had potential, but for some reason, all of that potential got squandered in Inquisition. My guess is that he was supposed to be a puppet villain, masquerading as the big bad while the story was setting up the real big bad - Solas, who is a much, much better antagonist. |
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Post by Iddy on Apr 27, 2017 14:26:34 GMT
Best villain.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2017 21:39:30 GMT
All 3 of the top voted are in my opinion the best Dragon Age has offered so far. Meredith could've been up there if they hadn't gone "magic sword is why i am a crazy zealot"
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Post by Catilina on Apr 27, 2017 21:54:15 GMT
All 3 of the top voted are in my opinion the best Dragon Age has offered so far. Meredith could've been up there if they hadn't gone "magic sword is why i am a crazy zealot" This was a very good fate to her. You're right, without the big red sword, she is paranoid too, and cruel enough to become a great enemy, but with the red lyrium the true justice has caught her. She could not resist the temptation, because she thought she's strong enough to handle it. Just as her blood mages. I really like this finale. She died as an Abomination. |
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Post by fylimar on Apr 29, 2017 8:24:55 GMT
For all the ineresting antagonists in the game, like Loghain, Arishok even Corypheus to a part, I voted Gereon Alexius, because he is the most human of the antagonists. He is the best example for the saying that the road to hell is plastered with good intentions. He wanted to save his sons life and sold his soul in the process - it doesn't get much more tragic than that imo.
Esit: I withold judgement on Fen'Harel for now, I have to wait for the next game. As some people mentioned, Meredith could stand high up on the list, if they hadn't done the red lyrium crazy thing with her. She was a deep character with a distrust in mages and a lust for power, that would have been enough. If they do something like that with Fen'Harel, he would fall beyond red lyrium in my book. If they pull him off believable, then he might become my No. 1, but still, I do feel for Alexius, so he still gets my vote
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 29, 2017 19:48:45 GMT
All 3 of the top voted are in my opinion the best Dragon Age has offered so far. There's a nice spread in the top 3, too. Each is from a different game. For me, it was a tough call between Loghain (aka my Warden's best bro), Corypheus (aka the youth pastor gone wrong) and the Nightmare. Demons are my favorite characters, so the Nightmare ultimately won out.* It's such a great character motivation. Its goal is "soothe as much fear as possible", so naturally it chose to increase the amount of fear in the world. More fear means more fear that it can soothe. The Nightmare's story adds new layers to previous spirits, too. I've been thinking back to a conversation in DA2: Isabela was trying to give Justice a more nuanced concept of justice. However, he could have easily taken that information and realized hey, I get stronger when I mete out justice. Cycles of revenge benefit me. Now that we've seen the Nightmare, it's easier to understand how "good" spirits can quickly turn into "bad" ones. It's the ultimate perverse incentive. If there's a spirit tasked with "making unhappy people happier", their victims need to be unhappy first.
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*Though if Xebenkeck had been an option, I would have picked her in a heartbeat. She won't participate in elven wars, but she will kill you if you try to mess with her book collection. And she maybe had a role in the Kirkwall blood rituals. She's like the world's most metal literature professor. |
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Post by Catilina on Apr 29, 2017 20:48:16 GMT
All 3 of the top voted are in my opinion the best Dragon Age has offered so far. There's a nice spread in the top 3, too. Each is from a different game. For me, it was a tough call between Loghain (aka my Warden's best bro), Corypheus (aka the youth pastor gone wrong) and the Nightmare. Demons are my favorite characters, so the Nightmare ultimately won out.* It's such a great character motivation. Its goal is "soothe as much fear as possible", so naturally it chose to increase the amount of fear in the world. More fear means more fear that it can soothe. The Nightmare's story adds new layers to previous spirits, too. I've been thinking back to a conversation in DA2: Isabela was trying to give Justice a more nuanced concept of justice. However, he could have easily taken that information and realized hey, I get stronger when I mete out justice. Cycles of revenge benefit me. Now that we've seen the Nightmare, it's easier to understand how "good" spirits can quickly turn into "bad" ones. It's the ultimate perverse incentive. If there's a spirit tasked with "making unhappy people happier", their victims need to be unhappy first.
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*Though if Xebenkeck had been an option, I would have picked her in a heartbeat. She won't participate in elven wars, but she will kill you if you try to mess with her book collection. And she maybe had a role in the Kirkwall blood rituals. She's like the world's most metal literature professor.Yes, you caught the reason, how can a spirit's purpose twist because of a bad interpretation, supererogation etc. Justice doesn't have to be so deliberately evil. Justice doesn't need to fear that he lost his importance, much more, that his purpose will be twisted. The justice and the vengeance's borders are blurred, sometimes hard to know where the justice ends and where the vengeance begins. And this is, where he can be a demon, and even the evidence, that he still has his purpose, even if that may be corrupted: Anders/Justice accepts Hawke's verdict, don't try to escape, or fighting. If Hawke accepts Sebastian’s argument at Gallows (friendship): Hawke: "He’s right. The grand cleric deserves justice." Anders: " Yes. I would not deny anyone’s right to that..." Seems he even know, what is his original purpose. But even, already know the mercy (Spirits able to learn, The world shape them. Justice not same as he was in the Fade. He experienced friendship [Anders, Warden], the love [Kristoff's memory, and optionally Anders], the mercy [Nathaniel], anger [Anders], desire [Anders], and many other things.): Justice: You have not paid for your crime yet, mortal. Nathaniel: Still stewing over that, are you? Justice: You have been freed, but you have not offered penance. Nathaniel: Isn’t being forced to listen to you, penance enough? Seems clear. Andres/Justice don’t want to avoid the consequences, they are able to accept even the death penalty. But they don't want to die, because their work doesn't finished yet. The rebellion started, but the Mages are still not free. (Anders continuing this work, if Hawke doesn't execute him.) This is an interesting question about spirits/demons. My explanation about Justice only one, but it seems pretty likely – ofc, to me. |
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Post by arvaarad on Apr 29, 2017 21:15:03 GMT
Yes, you caught the reason, how can a spirit's purpose twist because of a bad interpretation, supererogation etc. Justice doesn't have to be so deliberately evil. Justice doesn't need to fear that he lost his importance, much more, that his purpose will be twisted. The justice and the vengeance's borders are blurred, sometimes hard to know where the justice ends and where the vengeance begins. And this is, where he can be a demon, and even the evidence, that he still has his purpose, even if that may be corrupted: Anders/Justice accepts Hawke's verdict, don't try to escape, or fighting. I initially assumed Justice's corruption was based on misinterpretation. Unlike someone like Aveline, Anders hasn't had much experience with justice or even vengeance. On top of that, Kirkwall, the city of Ser Alrik, the Tevinter slaveholders, and Magistrate Vanard, isn't the best place to get a reasonable definition of "justice". So, through an unlucky misunderstanding, he comes to interpret vengeance as justice. But after meeting the Nightmare, my perception changed. Justice doesn't need to misunderstand the meaning of justice at all. Even if he has a reasonable definition of justice, he still gets a perverse incentive. Justice gains power whenever someone is granted justice. For someone to be granted justice, they need to get hurt first. In a perfectly happy and peaceful world, justice would be unnecessary. While that might be a good outcome for mortals, Justice would shrivel away. So he needs there to be a cycle of vengeance, he needs people to keep getting hurt, in order to keep feeding on justice. In real life, we call this the Cobra Effect: For many spirits like Justice and the Nightmare, the "cobra" is some negative emotion like injustice or fear. When they're tasked with removing as much injustice or fear as possible, they respond by encouraging those negative emotions. It gives them more "cobras" to kill, ultimately making them more powerful. |
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Post by Catilina on Apr 29, 2017 22:46:20 GMT
Yes, you caught the reason, how can a spirit's purpose twist because of a bad interpretation, supererogation etc. Justice doesn't have to be so deliberately evil. Justice doesn't need to fear that he lost his importance, much more, that his purpose will be twisted. The justice and the vengeance's borders are blurred, sometimes hard to know where the justice ends and where the vengeance begins. And this is, where he can be a demon, and even the evidence, that he still has his purpose, even if that may be corrupted: Anders/Justice accepts Hawke's verdict, don't try to escape, or fighting. I initially assumed Justice's corruption was based on misinterpretation. Unlike someone like Aveline, Anders hasn't had much experience with justice or even vengeance. On top of that, Kirkwall, the city of Ser Alrik, the Tevinter slaveholders, and Magistrate Vanard, isn't the best place to get a reasonable definition of "justice". So, through an unlucky misunderstanding, he comes to interpret vengeance as justice. But after meeting the Nightmare, my perception changed. Justice doesn't need to misunderstand the meaning of justice at all. Even if he has a reasonable definition of justice, he still gets a perverse incentive. Justice gains power whenever someone is granted justice. For someone to be granted justice, they need to get hurt first. In a perfectly happy and peaceful world, justice would be unnecessary. While that might be a good outcome for mortals, Justice would shrivel away. So he needs there to be a cycle of vengeance, he needs people to keep getting hurt, in order to keep feeding on justice. In real life, we call this the Cobra Effect: For many spirits like Justice and the Nightmare, the "cobra" is some negative emotion like injustice or fear. When they're tasked with removing as much injustice or fear as possible, they respond by encouraging those negative emotions. It gives them more "cobras" to kill, ultimately making them more powerful. Aveline was only a soldier, when they arrived in Kirkwall. She hasn't experience about the justice, and later she has experience with the law, not justice. This two is not same, and it often happens that not even similar. (This would be nice, but...) *** I don't even think, that this is a misinterpretation. Anders and Justice talked a lot before the merger. They merged before Kirkwall, and Anders was extremely angry already before he offered his body to Justice. Justice agreed with him, but that clear, he knew only Anders' viewpoint. And after the merging, Justice sees the world with Anders' eyes. Justice changed. He's now Anders' justice, the mages' justice, this is his purpose. And he knew that, he chose, when accepted Anders' offer. Justice still not demon, but not that pure justice, what was in the Fade. The world is complicated, and everyone has a part of justice. Justice help Anders to focus on his(their) purpose and reflects Anders' emotions, he doesn't have his own. This is hard about Justice. Anders' right, the Circles are cruel and clearly unjust. Freedom for mages is just. This also clear. To fight for freedom is not vengeance, but can be. Anders angry, and often desire revenge (Karl's case for example) and afraid that his feeling changed Justice. This isn't Cobra Effect, Justice doesn't need to create unjustly situations, for having a purpose, they already exist. His problem is Anders' anger. But you're right, if we spoke about Vengeance demon. Justice will not be stronger by the injustice, but Vengeance can be stronger by more vengeance. The question is: if Anders dies, what happen with Vengeance... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2017 6:49:58 GMT
All 3 of the top voted are in my opinion the best Dragon Age has offered so far. There's a nice spread in the top 3, too. Each is from a different game. For me, it was a tough call between Loghain (aka my Warden's best bro), Corypheus (aka the youth pastor gone wrong) and the Nightmare. Demons are my favorite characters, so the Nightmare ultimately won out.* It's such a great character motivation. Its goal is "soothe as much fear as possible", so naturally it chose to increase the amount of fear in the world. More fear means more fear that it can soothe. The Nightmare's story adds new layers to previous spirits, too. I've been thinking back to a conversation in DA2: Isabela was trying to give Justice a more nuanced concept of justice. However, he could have easily taken that information and realized hey, I get stronger when I mete out justice. Cycles of revenge benefit me. Now that we've seen the Nightmare, it's easier to understand how "good" spirits can quickly turn into "bad" ones. It's the ultimate perverse incentive. If there's a spirit tasked with "making unhappy people happier", their victims need to be unhappy first.
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*Though if Xebenkeck had been an option, I would have picked her in a heartbeat. She won't participate in elven wars, but she will kill you if you try to mess with her book collection. And she maybe had a role in the Kirkwall blood rituals. She's like the world's most metal literature professor.That dialogue right there is the reason why Isabela is actually one of the smartest people in DA world |
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Post by themikefest on Apr 30, 2017 15:24:24 GMT
Meredith and Loghain. I chose Meredith. The best character in DA2. I like her VA, Jean Gilpin. She did an excellent job voicing an excellent character. Everyone take a moment of silence to remember the awesomeness that is Meredith. She will be missed
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Post by Iddy on May 3, 2017 16:11:45 GMT
Meredith and Loghain. I chose Meredith. The best character in DA2. I like her VA, Jean Gilpin. She did an excellent job voicing an excellent character. Everyone take a moment of silence to remember the awesomeness that is Meredith. She will be missed My favorite line was "If you cannot tell me another way, do not brand me a tyrant. " |
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