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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 9, 2017 2:28:05 GMT
Does this passive basically convert flanking damage to front damage? I am wondering because there is an item in the game that really reduces damage from the front (forgot what it is currently) and was wondering if that applies to the char no matter where they get hit. Would be pretty OP if it work the way I would like.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 9, 2017 2:39:29 GMT
Does this passive basically convert flanking damage to front damage? I am wondering because there is an item in the game that really reduces damage from the front (forgot what it is currently) and was wondering if that applies to the char no matter where they get hit. Would be pretty OP if it work the way I would like. No, it reduces flanking damage to 1 point. There are handful of items that reduce front damage or boost only front armor. For example, Malika's Guard amulet gives a +30% Front Defense (physical damage) buff.
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unofficialgreycolor
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 9, 2017 2:47:55 GMT
Does this passive basically convert flanking damage to front damage? I am wondering because there is an item in the game that really reduces damage from the front (forgot what it is currently) and was wondering if that applies to the char no matter where they get hit. Would be pretty OP if it work the way I would like. No, it reduces flanking damage to 1 point. There are handful of items that reduce front damage or boost only front armor. For example, Malika's Guard amulet gives a +30% Front Defense (physical damage) buff. Thanks, that is still pretty OP - keeping flanking damage to a single point. I usually go the sword and shield rout with Cass because raisins - mostly for the passives (all the corner ones at least). I am doing a playthrough where I always have Cass in the the party and since she is not as good at generating guard as blackwall and I only play on nightmare, I'm looking for ways to make Cass virtually unkillable. The purple tree (for got what it is called) is pretty much all good so doing a lot of Sword and shield and the purple tree for generating guard/not having to drink potions. If I have leftovers its going in her specialization tree. If there are other builds that are OP for Cass (or other S&S warriors) please let me know about them.
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Post by capn233 on Feb 9, 2017 3:16:58 GMT
BMTW is very good on a tank, and then on any warrior in the right situation. Really handy for fighting giants.
I don't find too much difference between Cass and Blackwall as far as tankiness after their specializations are unlocked, although I feel like Cass actually has more utility. Before that they have all the same skill trees so identical build should be pretty identical.
You are right that the Vanguard tree is the tanking tree predominantly, with some help from SnS passives. War Cry's upgrade of 200% armor bonus is helpful, and that ability seems like the most reliable guard generator on AI for me (at least out of vanilla warrior skills). Turn the Bolt is great (reduces ranged physical and elemental), and Turn the Blade is also good. Trust the Steel is also only a 1 pt investment on her since she starts with Challenge.
I don't think AI shield warriors really generate all that much guard from Shield Wall, but they do ok mitigating damage with it. Charging Bull is pretty good if you have friendly fire off (or control her yourself). It is dangerous with it on, unless you are doing something like one warrior and 3 ranged with the warrior always in front.
The worst things for her early will be magic attacks since they aren't mitigated by armor and she won't have high resistances or willpower yet (mostly stepping on mines), and then a few types of melee enemies (AI can't really handle bull rush of tower shield enemies, and is not the greatest against 2H).
edit:
Also worth noting that how well the tank survives is related to the support they are getting. Party dps is a consideration as the longer the AI needs to tank, the more likely they will lose health.
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Post by unofficialgreycolor on Feb 9, 2017 3:43:56 GMT
I usually don't get charging bull for that reason. Its like the only one I don't get, everything else I put on Blackwall and Cass pmuch every time. Being able to use challenge without cooldown is pretty good too. I suppose I can do without bodyguard since I usually have at least 2 ranged chars I don't really touch. Magic usually isn't a problem if I am putting arms and legs on the char with magic resistance. Shit early game, but so is everything else. By the time I am like level 9 the game is pretty damn easy...
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 9, 2017 19:42:25 GMT
I don't disagree with anything above, but fwiw, I like to spec my tanks as 2H. I know I give up a lot of defense that way, but I can't help it, the 2H animations and damage levels are just too enticing. I use Cass as my main tank and outfit her 2H and set Horn of Valor/Fortifying Blast to Preferred so that the whole party gets guard on hit. On Nightmare with Even Ground, she rocks in that spec. I give her Wrath/Purge on Preferred as well and she does stupid amounts of damage on stunnable enemies and demons. Here's my Cass spec: bsn.boards.net/thread/1316/build-cassandra-inquisitor-templar-variationHere are a couple of vids where you can see AI Cass doing her stuff: In the next video, the best part starts at 5:39, where you can see Cass use the Vortex of Steel. Great fun!
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Post by capn233 on Feb 9, 2017 23:22:15 GMT
2H Templar is really good.
For a peasant like me it is a little harder to make a good tank out of one early since I wouldn't have Fortifying Blast. But I did do something a bit similar to your build on Iron Bull last run, just that the order was altered a bit and I wanted to get him Turn the Bolt. That was after experimenting with something that didn't really work for me.
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Post by Brother Juniper on Mar 20, 2017 8:33:59 GMT
capn233 said: "War Cry's upgrade of 200% armor bonus is helpful"
I always take the other War Cry upgrade. If my tank has guard, is an armor bonus still helpful?
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Post by roro4066 on Mar 20, 2017 15:30:12 GMT
I always take the other War Cry upgrade. If my tank has guard, is a armor bonus still helpful? i also take the other one because guard doesn't benefit from armor bonus, moreover it allows cassandra to taunt the bears, even when they are ignoring her and focussing my mage or archer. With the vanilla upgrade, the AOE of war cry is not large enough to make her taunt a bear that is running towards my ranged characters, and the effect lasts longer. But, at the begining of the game, when your warrior is pretty weak, the armor bonus can help.
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Post by capn233 on Mar 20, 2017 22:39:17 GMT
I don't have an alternative to the vanilla upgrade.
Also wrt armor rating, guard takes armor rating into account when physical damage is dealt afaik. Are you saying the War Cry upgrade specifically doesn't improve the rating guard is using?
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Post by roro4066 on Mar 20, 2017 23:07:47 GMT
Captain, i know you don't have trespasser dlc. I don't say that 200% armor bonus is useless, i say that it doesn't make your guard last longer since guard is not affected by any of the defenses.(from what i noticed) But it makes your health bar last longer indeed. i think only barriers are related to defenses but, to be honest, i should check it my self with some testing. Are you saying captain, that armor and defenses are also applied to guard? The thing is, except at the begining of the game, i don't need armor bonus for my warrior, and i really prefer my warriors to taunt more effectively.
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Post by capn233 on Mar 21, 2017 1:46:03 GMT
Armor rating should apply to guard, yes.
I would probably take a larger AOE for the taunt if it was available.
I also agree that the extra armor rating isn't as important once you can craft decent armor and have some other damage mitigation skills or passives. It is probably more useful for no-crafting runs, but isn't necessary.
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Post by roro4066 on Mar 22, 2017 18:15:15 GMT
Armor rating should apply to guard, yes. always applies to guard or should apply to guard? it would be better if we were sure about it, so if you have made no tests in that regards as well as i have not, i think it stays a questionnable matter until one of us or an other one investigate about it. I'll give you my results when it will be done on my side. See you captain
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