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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Sept 2, 2019 13:51:47 GMT
Also, can't they transmute a rock into gold or something else valuable? Easy money.
Also, Geralt uses his jedi mind trick pretty easily. I imagine a far more powerful mage could do what Geralt can do but at much higher levels. No need to fear anyone trying to kill you when you can make them kill themselves instead.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 2, 2019 22:17:26 GMT
Nah. In game Triss, Yennefer, and Kiera teleport like it's nothing. There was even a scene where Yen teleport threw Geralt into a lake with a wave of her hand just because he said something she didn't like. I have seen no examples of the difficulties of teleportation that you speak of. Magic in this game seems only as powerful as the plot demands. Also, can't they transmute a rock into gold or something else valuable? Easy money. Also, Geralt uses his jedi mind trick pretty easily. I imagine a far more powerful mage could do what Geralt can do but at much higher levels. No need to fear anyone trying to kill you when you can make them kill themselves instead. Triss and the others teleport tiny distances like it's nothing. A few miles at most, or even less in the case of Yennefer basically teleporting Geralt right outside her window. In TW2 Triss teleports what is otherwise a two week's journey (some hundred miles?) and it nearly kills both her and her passenger in several different ways (depositing them high above the ground, way off mark in the middle of nowhere and right next to a lovesick troll and a horny dwarven scout) and renders her comatose for days. When they have to travel greater distances they take a ship like everybody else, as we see them do repeatedly. They can't just go "anywhere in the world", as you posit. So, yeah. The Philosopher's Stone is actually referenced as a legendary sought-after artifact in TW2 specifically for the purposes of turning lead into gold, though I can't remember exactly when. Maybe while the party is ransacking that alchemist's lab under Loc Muinne. So it seems that it's theoretically possible, just extremely difficult and mostly only achieved in myth. Which wouldn't be unusual. Lots of magic systems have tight restrictions around conjuring or transforming precious metals or stones, otherwise there'd obviously be no way for those settings to have economies that we'd find recognizable. And I don't see why turning something into a pure metal wouldn't be a wholly different matter than turning it into, say, a lump of coal. The mind control is weird. Nothing like Geralt's gameplay ability to suddenly turn people on each other with lethal intent is referenced anywhere else in either the games or the books. The closest thing is Abigail in TW1 being accused of bewitching a merchant into murdering his brother, while she is in possession of a doll that maybe sorta looks like the guy. Mind control isn't otherwise used, really. Even Phillipa enchanting Saskia to fall in love with her in 2 is done using a magical plant with that specific property. Triss temporarily did the same thing to seduce Geralt at some point too, but it's never made clear exactly how. I don't see a problem with it being left vague exactly how spells work and what they can apply to. It makes sense to me that weaving magic must be so complex and counter-intuitive that you'd have to study your ass off to have any chance of understanding the underpinnings of most spells, and someone who hasn't will just find it a mystery trying to apply their own idea of how it should "logically" work to something that's plain out of their experience. Same thing with any complex field out there, really. If you aren't trained in something, do you expect to be able to guess how it all works based on irrelevant knowledge and experience? I would hope not. Just accept that there's a science behind it you don't personally know enough to make qualified guesses about.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Sept 2, 2019 23:34:03 GMT
It's always been unclear to me just what kind of magic Triss is allergic to. I think CDPR muddied the waters here. It's probably in the very first Sapkowski book.
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Post by dazk on Sept 3, 2019 1:48:13 GMT
It's always been unclear to me just what kind of magic Triss is allergic to. I think CDPR muddied the waters here. It's probably in the very first Sapkowski book. Butterfly magic? She seems to get overcome by that shield she raises in TW2 pretty quickly so I am guessing its butterfly magic.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 3, 2019 4:15:56 GMT
It's always been unclear to me just what kind of magic Triss is allergic to. I think CDPR muddied the waters here. It's probably in the very first Sapkowski book. I believe it's in Blood of Elves. If I remember right, the idea is that she's allergic to invasive magic like magical potions and healing spells, and has to rely on "natural" healing potions and enchanted amulets to boost her immune system against foreign agents where other mages could simply drink a concoction or cast spells on their own bodies. In that book she specifically gets the shits big time while traveling with Geralt, Ciri and Yarpen's refugee caravan, and is extremely mortified both that she's such a wreck and that she can't safely take anything that would stop it. Geralt is a real gentleman about helping her through it without any intention of taking advantage of her, despite her desperate advances, making the whole situation kinda adorable - except for her lying helpless in a wagon when the caravan is attacked by Scoia'tel. Of course, the very first thing you do in the first game is shove a potion made with the claw of a huge magical beast down her throat, and it fixes her right up. The only side effect seems to be making her extra susceptible to Geralt's clumsy pickup lines. Not that she ever needed any help in that department. So yup, CDProject definitely muddled the waters, though it was never explained very clearly to begin with.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Sept 3, 2019 5:43:09 GMT
But who wouldn't be susceptible to Gerald's lines? Even Yen finds them charming. Ahhh, old Sappy writing the best diarrhea scenario in all of fantasy.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 3, 2019 6:33:43 GMT
But who wouldn't be susceptible to Gerald's lines? Even Yen finds them charming. Ahhh, old Sappy writing the best diarrhea scenario in all of fantasy. Heh, yeah. I caught me rather off-guard the first time I read it. And that was even the first book I read, as it was one of the first to be translated into English for some reason. It really is touching, too. Geralt carrying her into the bushes, holding her and helping her clean up while she deliriously professes her love to him, hating herself for being such a mess and not imagining him being able to stand her unless he means to reciprocate her feelings. Meanwhile Yarpen gently point outs to Ciri that there can be a big difference between being a good person doing the right thing, and someone in love trying to get into another's good graces, and that she would do well never to make the same mistake. And all that after Triss shows up at Kaer Morhen to rake the entire Wolf School over the coals for understanding nothing about female biology, almost stunting Ciri's development with their herbs and mushrooms and making her too terrified of showing weakness to dare tell them about her periods. Shockingly great book. I need to read it again at some point. Might invest in the paperback collection, now that the games' success has finally made it happen.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Sept 5, 2019 0:10:34 GMT
@nox:
Well thanks for clearing up most of my confusion. I still think the magic in this game is inconsistent bullshit though.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 5, 2019 13:18:10 GMT
@nox: Well thanks for clearing up most of my confusion. I still think the magic in this game is inconsistent bullshit though. I'd argue that that's kind of what makes it magic. It's weird as fuck unless you're in on it, and maybe even then. Nothing is more boring than a "magic system" the functions and capabilities of which can be summed up in a few sentences. I imagine that's also part of what makes mages so distrusted in the setting. When a king asks his sorcerer for help with something, he never has any idea if they're going to say "Sure, that's well within my power, just give me a minute." or "Uhm, no, that's impossible for all sorts of reasons you wouldn't understand, nothing I can do is going to be more efficient than just throwing a lot of manpower at it. Figure it out yourself. Your majesty." Add to that the mages who do fight tooth and nail to project omnipotence with parlor tricks and sleight of hand or sheer lies. Until they're actually urgently needed for something important, and fall flat without a renowned Witcher to fetch rare components and dig through battlefields for symbolic objects for a ritual. It's no wonder everyone else is frustrated with them. I maintain that the fairytale-style " We know how it works. Don't worry your pretty little head about it, puny mortal. Just get us what we tell you to." magic fits the Witcher setting very well.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 6, 2019 6:59:45 GMT
Just stumbled over this, and thought there were a lot of interesting points. I hadn't really thought about the new prevalence of father protagonists in video games in any detail.
I don't agree with everything in the video though. He completely glosses over the age difference between Ciri and Ellie, and what that means for how justifiable it is or isn't for us to make dadly executive decisions on their behalf. His insistence on "equal" relationships between parents and children being preferable suggests to me that he's never had a teenage girl scream at him for not allowing her to do something monstrously stupid with herself.
Not to mention all the time Geralt spent ruthlessly training and toughening Ciri up as a kid, specifically to prepare her for having to survive by herself in a dangerous world. I certainly feel like that's an important part of why he's able to trust her to make her own decisions, along with her age and relative experience by the time of Wild Hunt.
And I find that he's a bit too dismissive of Emhyr's motivations, but it's not something the video dwells on.
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Post by davesin on Sept 6, 2019 7:02:40 GMT
On limits on magic overall - keep in mind the mage has to be concentrated and prepared to survive casting a spell. There are lots of examples of mages getting injured (Triss), killed (the mage from Last Wish quest) or otherwise causing unexpected and unpleasant results (Kayran) from getting a spell wrong, usually in dire situations or by overconfidence. Wielding magic is like playing a musical instrument, expect there's much higher risk by half-assing it. Speaking of musical instruments - some people are simply more talented then others. Sure, many people can learn how to play guitar, but Jimi Hendrix is simply better than most. Most mages in TW universe aren't as impressive as Yennefer or Vilgefortz. The mind control is weird. Nothing like Geralt's gameplay ability to suddenly turn people on each other with lethal intent is referenced anywhere else in either the games or the books. The closest thing is Abigail in TW1 being accused of bewitching a merchant into murdering his brother, while she is in possession of a doll that maybe sorta looks like the guy. Mind control isn't otherwise used, really. Even Phillipa enchanting Saskia to fall in love with her in 2 is done using a magical plant with that specific property. Triss temporarily did the same thing to seduce Geralt at some point too, but it's never made clear exactly how. Mind control in this manner is used in The Last Wish short story. Yennefer gets angry with Geralt, puts a spell on him and sends him to wreack havoc on town (by beating up people who wronged Yen in some way). As for limitations, we can go mostly on game lore: 1. Axii and "usual" mind control is temporal and can person force into performing single or limited number of tasks, basically turning person into human golem. 2. The victim remembers being controlled. 3. It can be resisted by strong will or magic item (Shilard resists Axii in Chapter 2). 4. Phillipa's mind control was so powerful... because it wasn't mind control in traditional sense. Saskia didn't turn into human golem who listens to her mistress to the point, it was more about forcing Phillipa's perspective on Saskia. 5. Axii sign doesn't work properly on larger groups. 6. Morality of individual. Geralt actually says at one point that he could use Axii sign more often - but it would be wrong and too easy.
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Post by Noxluxe on Sept 6, 2019 7:18:20 GMT
Mind control in this manner is used in The Last Wish short story. Yennefer gets angry with Geralt, puts a spell on him and sends him to wreack havoc on town (by beating up people who wronged Yen in some way). As for limitations, we can go mostly on game lore: 1. Axii and "usual" mind control is temporal and can person force into performing single or limited number of tasks, basically turning person into human golem. 2. The victim remembers being controlled. 3. It can be resisted by strong will or magic item (Shilard resists Axii in Chapter 2). 4. Phillipa's mind control was so powerful... because it wasn't mind control in traditional sense. Saskia didn't turn into human golem who listens to her mistress to the point, it was more about forcing Phillipa's perspective on Saskia. 5. Axii sign doesn't work properly on larger groups. 6. Morality of individual. Geralt actually says at one point that he could use Axii sign more often - but it would be wrong and too easy. Good point, I'd forgotten about that. I haven't read the Last Wish since Wild Hunt came out, and there's so much going on in that story with the genie's wishes and nobody wanting to explain what's going on to Geralt that her spell on him kind of got lost in the mix. As for #4, having played through TW2 a few weeks ago, my understanding from what she says is that Philippa didn't even force a new perspective on Saskia. She just made her fall in love with her, so Saskia would feel intensely personally loyal to her without warping or diluting any of her insight or charisma, which were necessary for the Lodge's plans for her reign over the Pontar Valley. Good summary though. I've yet to play a Geralt who really made use of Axii outside getting rid of annoying weak-minded bumpkins who wouldn't go away. It doesn't feel like a very Geralty sign, and it certainly doesn't have such spectacular combat applications in the books, so far as I remember. Do you recall when he says that about being able to use it more often?
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Post by davesin on Sept 6, 2019 7:37:11 GMT
Yeah, Geralt in books usually talks to people and then goes for using swords. Axii was used only once, to calm down Roach. As for that conversation - it's one of the quests in Kaer Morhen, where Geralt and Lambert go into mountains and encounter bunch of trolls. Later, they talk about how they got past them when they were young. One of the options leads into that dialogue.
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Post by aglomeracja on Sept 10, 2019 10:42:04 GMT
IIRC witcher signs are a form of utility magic, good for lighting a campfire etc. It much more powerful when they use proper potions, but even then Witchers are relying mostly on swords.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 28, 2019 16:59:13 GMT
Time for another playthrough. I never played the expansions, but this time I'll add them on after the main story.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Dec 29, 2019 23:08:48 GMT
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Post by fchopin on Dec 30, 2019 5:52:25 GMT
I also started the Witcher again but i started from the first Witcher game.
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Post by dragontartare on Dec 31, 2019 7:49:57 GMT
I'll probably do another playthrough soon too, but this time I'd like to play the whole trilogy. I've never played 1 or 2, and GOG has them for a few bucks each right now.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 31, 2019 16:13:18 GMT
BioWare better be on their Ps and Qs because if they fucked up DA4, then they won't be able to start over again.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 31, 2019 18:30:36 GMT
I also started the Witcher again but i started from the first Witcher game. Not a bad idea. I don't believe the first one is available on console. (?)
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Post by azarhal on Dec 31, 2019 21:13:18 GMT
I also started the Witcher again but i started from the first Witcher game. Not a bad idea. I don't believe the first one is available on console. (?) First game never got a console port. It runs on BioWare's old Aurora Engine and support point-to-click and RTwP. They would have to remake it to support console.
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Post by fchopin on Dec 31, 2019 22:23:29 GMT
I also started the Witcher again but i started from the first Witcher game. Not a bad idea. I don't believe the first one is available on console. (?) Yes the first Witcher game is only on PC but Witcher 2 and 3 are available on console.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 31, 2019 23:09:34 GMT
Yes the first Witcher game is only on PC but Witcher 2 and 3 are available on console. I've enjoyed both 2 and 3, though i find the notion or replaying 2 uninviting as I find 3 so much better.
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Post by Noxluxe on Jan 3, 2020 7:16:27 GMT
Almost abandoned my playthrough after Greedfall and Outer Worlds - and then Dishonored - distracted me while I was otherwise running all over Novigrad. But the show got me back in the mood. I think it's the weakest part of the game, all those criss-crossing quests set in a cluttered and disorganizing mess of a city. Really, those are the weakest parts of all the games. Geralt is more suited to the 'burbs and the open road. Can't wait to sail to Skellige, and ride to Kaer Morhen after that. Still can't stand the way quests, items and enemies are leveled in Wild Hunt. Nothing worse than waiting to wear beautiful armor or fight an awesome miniboss or start a cool quest because some weird system has arbitrarily decided that you must be exactly this strong before you're allowed to get at them.
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Post by azarhal on Jan 3, 2020 12:33:36 GMT
Still can't stand the way quests, items and enemies are leveled in Wild Hunt. Nothing worse than waiting to wear beautiful armor or fight an awesome miniboss or start a cool quest because some weird system has arbitrarily decided that you must be exactly this strong before you're allowed to get at them. The beauty of playing on PC, there are mods for that.
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