aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
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August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aoibhealfae on Jun 3, 2017 20:49:13 GMT
I don't get it. Does all white female romance characters being portrayed to be tokens as stereotypical white females? Kaidan being stereotypical Canadian bisexual guy who want commitment and love like all stereotypical Canadian bisexual guys?
Jacob is just a guy who seem to find all of his female bosses as attractive. He slept with Miranda too, that's Jacob thing, not Black thing. If he's really that stereotypical, he would have left Brynn with the baby to join up Shepard, rekindling the whole absent father figure trope and ended up in Alliance prison.
Besides, there's already a black squadmate with less stereotypical background; Jolee Bindo.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 3, 2017 20:56:05 GMT
I don't get it. Does all white female romance characters being portrayed to be tokens as stereotypical white females? Kaidan being stereotypical Canadian bisexual guy who want commitment and love like all stereotypical Canadian bisexual guys? Jacob is just a guy who seem to find all of his female bosses as attractive. He slept with Miranda too, that's Jacob thing, not Black thing. If he's really that stereotypical, he would have left Brynn with the baby to join up Shepard, rekindling the whole absent father figure trope and ended up in Alliance prison. Besides, there's already a black squadmate with less stereotypical background; Jolee Bindo. If you re-read the initial post where it gives a definition of "token" you would see your other examples don't quite fit. I think more of the problem of him being token was his stereotype. And, if you want to get technical, Kaidan was a walking stereotype of a Canadian. We don't really notice until Citadel dlc but it's there. However, there is no stereotype of "Canadian bisexual guy". You'd first have to find a group that has stereotypes before claiming someone fits it.
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boxofscreaming
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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943
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Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 16, 2017 19:38:40 GMT
These discussions never go anywhere as any character can be seen as some sort of token or stereotype.
Jacob was just the down to earth human guy, wasn't he? Like Kaidan or James? A nice enough man, but rarely the best choice for the party.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 17, 2017 1:49:34 GMT
Stereotypes are fine. For Jacob, I felt the stereotyping came more from his father than himself. As for the "cheating", well, Shepard could easily have been a cheater in ME2 and/or ME3.
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aoibhealfae
N3
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 811 Likes: 1,190
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aoibhealfae
The stars, the moon, they have all been blown out
811
Aug 23, 2016 19:19:58 GMT
August 2016
aoibhealfae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aoibhealfae on Sept 17, 2017 8:36:42 GMT
I think the issue is how Jacob was portrayed halfheartedly in the game that you never see his backstory (as did everyone else). But you can explore his character through Mass Effect Galaxy and Foundation . To me, he's not a token black man, he's just a complicated guy trying to deal with his past, getting through life shaped by the people around him. That to him, even doing the right things and expecting the right response is not enough but he's still an idealist trying to make things right for himself and the people he cared about. He have his own flaws which made him human and his character was his own.
I do think people are angry because he's a romanceable black guy portrayed with ditching the main character but if you leave him be, he's a character who have his own agency and who did find his one true purpose and true love on his own and who wanted to be a better man for his family. Shepard isn't for him, he's never going to be a pro-Alliance, he's never going to be as single-minded about saving the universe or attached to a ship, he's just plain bad for Shepard and he knows it.
Does he need to be the best bro? The funniest guy? The one who crap out bad jokes to soften the blow of his screw ups? No, I don't think he needed to be all that.
Jacob is just one of many Mass Effect character who aren't created to stroke the main character's ego. (plus, romancing him does the reverse of that, it was his ego that got inflated) He isn't meant to be likable and its fine for me.
Jacob isn't a a representation of every black people and there are many Bioware dark-skinned or black characters and POC/black VAs that Bioware have; Javik/Koth, Arcann, Vivienne, Isabela, Dorian, Josephine etc each of them being their own characters as they are.
I'm Asian... and you're most likely to see Asians like Captain Dunn or Captain Matsuo or Khalisah Bint Sinan Al-Jailani in real life than Token Asian Ninja like Kasumi or Kai Leng. Heck, Bioware's desire for token portrayals was too much that they created the abomination called Jade Empire. Where the white writers think they know enough about Asians to create their own version of Asians mythology without any input of actual history or wuxia genre itself. They didn't seem even know the differences between Japanese, Korean and Chinese within the game itself.... do they think these people get along without their own prejudice and history? Just simply because they look similar with slanted eyes and yellow faces so its right to lump it all as one? And funny thing is, because of this persistent post-colonial white worship, whenever white people do cultural appropriated bullshit like this, we Asians are expected to feel appreciated when being whitewashed. And why you often see asian made games with strong western influence and only tiny bits of genuine stuff... because even here, there's only so much Orientalism that the international market would take that actual representation had to be buried to make something marketable.
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Post by obbie1984 on Sept 22, 2017 22:31:51 GMT
I never really got the hate for Jacob. Yes, he's a little bland and doesn't tell you enough about his backstory. But to me, he comes across as a guy who just keeps a lid on his past like he says. He doesn't dwell on it like most other characters and cares about moving forward.
I actually fault Bioware more than anything. People hated Kaidan in ME1 but they took the time to improve his writing. For Jacob they decided he was a lost cause if romanced and just made him a douche instead of more likable. Its a shame because I really liked that he was the only romance in ME2 that allowed femshep to vent her feelings about all the things going on. They could have just expanded on that or improved his dialogue, but nope.
And I feel people focus way more on the negative with him. If you are broshep or a femshep who didn't romance him, he's actually a very admirable guy by the end of ME3. Its only further exacerbated in the CItadel DLC where he comes off as a really nice guy. Yet, no one really faults Miranda for being almost borderline selfish looking for her damsel in distress sister exclusively. Even requesting Alliance resources be taken away just to find her. Or the fact that her arc in ME3 is rehashed from ME2. But she's got a big booty so most people don't complain.
Jacob's also way more useful in combat than people give him credit for.
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 1, 2017 9:51:32 GMT
I don't get it. Does all white female romance characters being portrayed to be tokens as stereotypical white females? Kaidan being stereotypical Canadian bisexual guy who want commitment and love like all stereotypical Canadian bisexual guys? Jacob is just a guy who seem to find all of his female bosses as attractive. He slept with Miranda too, that's Jacob thing, not Black thing. If he's really that stereotypical, he would have left Brynn with the baby to join up Shepard, rekindling the whole absent father figure trope and ended up in Alliance prison. Besides, there's already a black squadmate with less stereotypical background; Jolee Bindo. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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3,871
Aug 14, 2016 11:41:22 GMT
August 2016
cloud9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 19, 2017 2:09:05 GMT
I think the issue is how Jacob was portrayed halfheartedly in the game that you never see his backstory (as did everyone else). But you can explore his character through Mass Effect Galaxy and Foundation . To me, he's not a token black man, he's just a complicated guy trying to deal with his past, getting through life shaped by the people around him. That to him, even doing the right things and expecting the right response is not enough but he's still an idealist trying to make things right for himself and the people he cared about. He have his own flaws which made him human and his character was his own. I do think people are angry because he's a romanceable black guy portrayed with ditching the main character but if you leave him be, he's a character who have his own agency and who did find his one true purpose and true love on his own and who wanted to be a better man for his family. Shepard isn't for him, he's never going to be a pro-Alliance, he's never going to be as single-minded about saving the universe or attached to a ship, he's just plain bad for Shepard and he knows it. Does he need to be the best bro? The funniest guy? The one who crap out bad jokes to soften the blow of his screw ups? No, I don't think he needed to be all that. Jacob is just one of many Mass Effect character who aren't created to stroke the main character's ego. (plus, romancing him does the reverse of that, it was his ego that got inflated) He isn't meant to be likable and its fine for me. Jacob isn't a a representation of every black people and there are many Bioware dark-skinned or black characters and POC/black VAs that Bioware have; Javik/Koth, Arcann, Vivienne, Isabela, Dorian, Josephine etc each of them being their own characters as they are. I'm Asian... and you're most likely to see Asians like Captain Dunn or Captain Matsuo or Khalisah Bint Sinan Al-Jailani in real life than Token Asian Ninja like Kasumi or Kai Leng. Heck, Bioware's desire for token portrayals was too much that they created the abomination called Jade Empire. Where the white writers think they know enough about Asians to create their own version of Asians mythology without any input of actual history or wuxia genre itself. They didn't seem even know the differences between Japanese, Korean and Chinese within the game itself.... do they think these people get along without their own prejudice and history? Just simply because they look similar with slanted eyes and yellow faces so its right to lump it all as one? And funny thing is, because of this persistent post-colonial white worship, whenever white people do cultural appropriated bullshit like this, we Asians are expected to feel appreciated when being whitewashed. And why you often see asian made games with strong western influence and only tiny bits of genuine stuff... because even here, there's only so much Orientalism that the international market would take that actual representation had to be buried to make something marketable. With all due respect I suggest you stay on your lane.
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