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Post by smilesja on Jun 29, 2018 5:35:04 GMT
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Post by o Ventus on Jun 29, 2018 13:55:08 GMT
I love Halo, but hate Halo 5. Halo 4 set up the Didact as an interesting villain after what he experienced in the Forerunner trilogy of books, and then he gets shamelessly “killed” (in quotes because he’s not technically dead, but he’s out of commission and will almost certainly never return) in a comic that nobody read. One of the most important figures in the backstory of the fiction, reduced to... that. In a comic book. And not even a good comic either. And then Halo 5 made it worse by viciously raping the characterization of Cortana.
Also the Kilo Five books are fucking horrible and Karen Traviss can’t write her way out of a paper bag. Frankly I’m surprised she was able to pen even semi-legible gibberish for her Gears of War books. Probably the only good literature she can claim to have made.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jun 29, 2018 14:35:16 GMT
I love Halo, but hate Halo 5. Halo 4 set up the Didactic as an interesting villain after what he experienced in the Forerunner trilogy of books, and then he gets shamelessly “killed” (in quotes because he’s not technically dead, but he’s out of commission and will almost certainly never return) in a comic that nobody read. One of the most important figures in the backstory of the fiction, reduced to... that. In a comic book. And not even a good comic either. And then Halo 5 made it worse by viciously raping the characterization of Cortana. Also the Kilo Five books are fucking horrible and Karen Traviss can’t write her way out of a paper bag. Frankly I’m surprised she was able to pen even semi-legible gibberish for her Gears of War books. Probably the only good literature she can claim to have made. Aside from the setting being increasingly over saturated with humans as this god-teir ubermensch race, this has to be one of the biggest problems I have with the Halo series. It's so dumb that in order to understand what the heck is going on with these games you have to go to completely separate forms of media. And if you have the gall to question the lack of information and context given for characters and events that suddenly crop up in these games then the developers simply insinuate that you are't a 'true fan' of the series and that you should, more or less, just shut up. I was starting to loose interest in the series by the time of Halo 3, but 343's reaction to fan criticisms about Halo 4's lack of narrative, that if we 'just read the books, we would understand' really turned me off to the setting. I skipped Halo 5 entirely, and it was only Halo Wars 2 that nominally pulled me back into following the series again. Mostly because it had the various aliens as actual characters instead of just mindless monsters for the Spartans to kill, that and they were actually intelligent and succeeded in their plans; plus there was something immensely satisfying seeing a single brute take down a team of four Spartans single handedly.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 30, 2018 21:33:17 GMT
Too bad the TV series will be on Showtime, so I can't watch it.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 30, 2018 22:24:49 GMT
Too bad the TV series will be on Showtime, so I can't watch it. You can always get Showtime.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 28, 2018 23:04:34 GMT
Anyone hear about the new book, Halo: Renegades? Apparently the main character will be returning to the remnants of the Etran Harborage, which is the shield world that was mostly destroyed in the first Halo Wars. There's also a weird AI construct on the cover with the protagonist. Wonder what that is The human is Lucy "Rion" Forge. She's the daughter of John Forge, one of the main characters in Halo Wars 1. It seems she is looking for the Spirit of Fire. As for the AI, I don't know who it is but I know what it is. That is a Promethean Soldier. But it's glowing green instead of blue or red like those under the Didact or Librarian respectively.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 9, 2019 22:29:26 GMT
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Post by CHRrOME on Jun 9, 2019 23:34:42 GMT
Halo on PC again, I've been waiting so long I don't know if I actually care anymore. Actually, I might.
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Post by Lavochkin on Jul 6, 2019 4:51:37 GMT
Halo on PC again, I've been waiting so long I don't know if I actually care anymore. Actually, I might. If you get it on PC, we could coop it den.
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Post by michaeln7 on Jul 7, 2019 22:36:44 GMT
I may be in the minority here, but I've always liked the "Humans Ascend" storyline idea.
Not in the jingoistic sense, perhaps in a patriotic sense, but always in the benevolent sense.
On another note, I think Halo: Reach is my favorite title in the series.
The stakes keep escalating, every time it looks like hope is in sight, something occurs that makes it worse. Noble-6 acquiring Cortana's matrix, buying time for the "Pillar of Autumn" to get the heck outta dodge, and the final objective...
SURVIVE
Knowing full well that this is the end of the line for Noble-6.
And the very last scene, narrated by Halsey, with your custom helmet silhouetted by a sundered mountain...
I find the Biblical themes in Halo to be very poignant.
I completely understand people's frustration with Halo 5 and Cortana's SKYNET/Matrix-complex. But I find it fascinating that humanity's greatest foe yet is itself.
Again, minority here, so I'm not expecting a lot of love here, but there you have it.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jul 8, 2019 18:43:50 GMT
I can see the appeal of an underdog character/faction/species, and by all outward appearances this is certainly the case for humanity in a general sense during the beginning games of the series.
Here we are, surrounded on all sides, fighting to just survive in a galaxy seemingly bent on killing us. Truth be told, I actually liked that depiction of the UNSC for Halo 1 & 2. That gritty, determined final stand against all odds. This sort of desperation is perfectly summarized at the conclusion of Halo 2, where humanity, and their Spartan(s) aren't enough to stop the forces arrayed against us and so we HAVE TO seek an alliance of circumstance in the form of the Arbiter and his forces in order to just survive. Halo 3 tended to gloss over this story development, and practically reduced the Arbiter to a bit cameo in the process, but the structure was there, the idea that humanity couldn't do it alone, that we needed to adapt and work together with these aliens to survive. Of course thanks to the Forerunner trilogy, as well as Halo 4 & 5, all of that plot direction has been thrown out the window in favor of a trite (IMO) "Humans are special" plot line that sees us as the literal Übermensch of the entire universe.
Despite being forced back to our home world, and brought to the brink of extinction in the process, we can not only make the galaxy's most powerful space craft in the form of the Infinity. A ship that can literally fly through a Covenant carrier without so much as a scratch. But we can also now turn regular humans into full fledged Spartans, forgoing the time and training required for the likes of Master Chief and can have people like Sgt. Buck become one man armies capable of single handily destroying entire Covenant battalions; again without so much as a scratch. And all of this development is brought about because of our ingenuity; a trait that is seemingly lacking in all the other species of the galaxy, and is why we are the only ones "Worthy of the Mantle" according to the Librarian.
At this point in the series the underdogs are now the aliens; those that worked with and fought alongside humanity during the climax of Halo 2-3. Aliens that, according to the (new) lore, are primitives living in a galaxy who's precursors practically designed everything to work for only themselves (Forerunners) and humanity. The Covenant had to fight to use the technology of the Forerunners; facilities and weapons actively resisting them in many cases; whereas it would operate perfectly for human hands. Aliens who possess innate qualities that would otherwise see them as profound powers in their own right are overlooked as candidates for "The Mantle" simply because they aren't 'special' like humans are. For instance, the Lekgolo are capable of matching the feats of current civilizations without having to rely on AI, and are completely immune to Flood infection to boot, but they aren't considered a potential successor for the galaxy because… well no reason really, except that they aren't human.
In many ways, this "Humanity's Ascension" plot line takes away from the earlier depictions of us in the first trilogy too because ultimately it was our special 'god-gene', and the fact that the entire precursor infrastructure of the galaxy was specifically designed to work with us, and only us, that enabled our species to survive and ultimately win the war. Similar to how we don't fear for Superman being shot with a gun, likewise the subsequent lore of the Halo series has humanity as being on a level above everything else so of course we won the Human/Covenant War, we're 'special'.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jul 10, 2019 14:02:17 GMT
Um, not exactly
Choosing humanity made sense from a practical standpoint. They were the rival species to the Forerunners prior to the Flood's arrival and were the closest to being viable successors at the state they were in before their defeat.
Nope, no such thing
This was already established by Halo 2.
The current universe set by the standards of what humans and the Forerunners could do. I suppose it's possible that there's a level of civilization beyond time manipulation, dyson spheres, dimensional folding, star roads and the like. But by that point you practically have a setting like Dragonball Z; with a revolving door of exponentially more powerful villains showing up just as the latest one was defeated. For all intents and purposes, the Forerunners and Humans, were and are the apex of the Local Cluster (the Flood are in a weird state as far as power levels go) and until the writers bring in the outside universe those two species are the Übermensch of the setting; of the series' current "universe". Aside from being a collective species, and rather 'alien' in nature, yes the Lekgolo can match current levels of society in the galaxy. They can operate and maintain networks of complex machinery, as well as calculate incredibly difficult problems all without having to rely on AI. They don't have any observable art or monuments (that we are aware of) but when it comes to pure logistical and processing power, the Lekgolo are more than capable of accomplishing the same tasks humanity currently can; even better in some cases. Add on top of this they are also immune to Flood infection, and would also be absolved of any internal shenanigans post Halo 5 humanity is dealing with thanks to their lack of AI use, then its really hard to not see them as a contender "Worthy of the Mantel". As far as job qualifications go they are more than capable of filling the position; save for that anti-human(oid) bias saying they can't… because reasons. The 'god-gene', ingenuity, luck, mountains of plot armor, whatever the narrative wants to call it the fact is that humans are special in this setting. We succeed because we have an innate talent/skill/genetic quality/etc. that automatically makes us better at things than everyone else in the setting. The Librarian says as much when she explains why she fought to save humanity; that there was something unique about our species that set us above and beyond every other species in the galaxy, including the Forerunners themselves, and so made us "Worthy of the Mantle". We could use the Forerunner devices yes, but it was tempered by the fact that we could only do so because we were classified as 'Reclaimers'. Subsequent titles changed it from a last ditch categorization by a civilization on the brink of extinction, as it was implied to be, for a system that recognized us because we around during the that time period; and even helped build these installations in some cases. Not much of a distinction in hindsight granted, but the former revelation was more of a 'lucky break' for the UNSC; something we barley managed to grab on to and utilize for our success; rather than some pre-ordained plan that gives us the keys to the kingdom as soon as we step into the room because we were one of the architects of the place.
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Post by Vortex13 on Jul 12, 2019 13:42:20 GMT
This is an important part of The Mantle, though. Those who possess it have to have the ability to spread culture and be social enough to police other races.
But how would Forerunners designate humanity as reclaimers if we weren't around in that time period, and why?
A bit of a misconception. The Librarian's view of humanity as superior was more conjectural and based around the events that preceded the Forerunner-Flood war to my understanding, not some genetic discovery.
Debatable, since one doesn't necessarily need a culture or social norms to police other races; really big guns do the job just as effectively. Plus, this is going on the assumption that the Lekgolo don't have any cultural or social aspects to them. For all we know they could have their very own society, just that it doesn't operate in a way recognizable to us. Which brings us back to the initial point, that the nature of the Mantel, and even how the infrastructure of the galaxy operates, is fundamentally biased against anything that is non-human(oid). The other alien species are at a distinct disadvantage compared to humanity as practically the entire galaxy is designed to either ignore them or actively resist their attempts to use precursor technology. When viewed in that light, the aliens are the true underdogs of the setting when compared to the golden child of humanity. It could have been that primitive humans happened to be the closest species to the installations at the time, or even a miscalculation of the Sentinels part. Misidentifying the Master Chief, and his SPARTAN armor, as a variant of Forerunner technology and so labeling him, and the rest of the UNSC, as "Reclaimers". A cosmic stroke of good luck granted, but certainly less mastabratory as having humanity as the special 'chosen ones' who were not only around during the time of the precursors, but were even superior to said precursors in many areas. Excluding genetic superiority there still is a in-setting distinction concerning how humans are better than everyone else. Heck, the Librarian was willing to go to war with her own people, dooming all the survivors to extinction, over protecting our species because of how "special" we were.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2019 13:19:14 GMT
A species like the Lekgolo wouldn't be viable candidates because they aren't social with other races and don't seem to have the cognitive capacity to expand and improve themselves in ways that humanoid races have. Hence why they weren't considered.
Humans as they were before weren't necessarily superior to the Forerunners in a noticeable way. In fact, in some ways they were inferior.
I understand that the story didn't resonate with you, and that's a matter of opinion, but some of what you're saying doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 27, 2019 2:10:20 GMT
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Post by michaeln7 on Sept 2, 2019 17:29:35 GMT
Reading some the back-n-forth...
From what I know of the lore, it isn't so much that mankind is special "just because". I think it has more to do with ancient humans being at war with the Forerunners, but only because the A.H. were fleeing the Flood.
This all happened millions/billions of years ago, and our "punishment" was to be almost literally bombed back to the Stone Age.
It's also known that the Covenant were VERY stagnant, not innovative at all due to their highly superstitious nature towards anything Forerunner. Whereas humans took the initiative and were able to develop energy shields, super-soldiers, A.I., FTL travel, terraforming, and on and on either by willing to try new things or reverse-engineering Covenant/Forerunner tech.
Put another way, we were equal to the Forerunners eons ago, and would have surpassed them if not for several critical circumstances. But while we were sent back to "Start", our species' "momentum" was not stopped. The Covenant plateaued, and our initial contact showed we were poorly matched, but we kept rising.
To be fair, I make no assumptions, and I could be wrong on several counts; but I think I'm in the ballpark here.
I do agree that half the story taking place in outside media makes it nigh impossible for casual players such as myself to extrapolate all the nuance of the setting... but frankly I'm just here for Master Chief.
The spectacle of these games never ceases to impress, and as I've posted before, I like the "Humanity is Special" story mechanic. So if nothing else, Halo INFINITE will be entertaining to watch, I have no doubt.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 2, 2019 21:05:36 GMT
Reading some the back-n-forth... From what I know of the lore, it isn't so much that mankind is special "just because". I think it has more to do with ancient humans being at war with the Forerunners, but only because the A.H. were fleeing the Flood. This all happened millions/billions of years ago, and our "punishment" was to be almost literally bombed back to the Stone Age. It's also known that the Covenant were VERY stagnant, not innovative at all due to their highly superstitious nature towards anything Forerunner. Whereas humans took the initiative and were able to develop energy shields, super-soldiers, A.I., FTL travel, terraforming, and on and on either by willing to try new things or reverse-engineering Covenant/Forerunner tech. Put another way, we were equal to the Forerunners eons ago, and would have surpassed them if not for several critical circumstances. But while we were sent back to "Start", our species' "momentum" was not stopped. The Covenant plateaued, and our initial contact showed we were poorly matched, but we kept rising. To be fair, I make no assumptions, and I could be wrong on several counts; but I think I'm in the ballpark here. I do agree that half the story taking place in outside media makes it nigh impossible for casual players such as myself to extrapolate all the nuance of the setting... but frankly I'm just here for Master Chief. The spectacle of these games never ceases to impress, and as I've posted before, I like the "Humanity is Special" story mechanic. So if nothing else, Halo INFINITE will be entertaining to watch, I have no doubt. I can understand that line of thinking, I just am rather disappointed in how the Covenant races; the Lekego in particular given the gestalt Colony, and it's actions during Halo Wars 2, is most likely going to be swept under the rug or reduced to mindless, faceless monsters for the Master Chief to kill. The Arbiter, or hell, even Axtriox and the Banished could be valuable allies in the coming hostilities with the Cortana corrupted AI and/or the return of the Flood, but they have systematically been stripped of all characterization over the course of the series to the point that they aren't really characters anymore so much as a glorified background prop. Because heaven forbid Superman humanity actually needs some alien help in these fights. It just comes across as juvenile I suppose, that the universe of the Halo setting is so accommodating to making humans look awesome (although its usually focused on the Master Chief) at the expense of turning the rest of the IP's inhabitants into nothing more than walking target practice. I mean would it kill the writers to have a human character as a villain? To have humans shown to be in the wrong? Or is this a science fiction series were humans have evolved past such notions and only the 'primitive' species around them have such flaws? Then again, Halo isn't particularly unique in this regard.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 2, 2019 21:17:09 GMT
Because heaven forbid Superman humanity actually needs some alien help in these fights. Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, and Halo 5: Guardians all had humanity needing alien help in those fights.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 3, 2019 2:49:15 GMT
Because heaven forbid Superman humanity actually needs some alien help in these fights. Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, and Halo 5: Guardians all had humanity needing alien help in those fights. The only ones with actual alien military assistance in any real capacity was Halo 2&3; ODST wasn't so much alien "help" as it was the fireteam kidnapping an enemy asset. Even then, all the contributions of the Arbiter and his forces in games 2 & 3 are quickly shoved under the rug as we enter into Halo 4&5. The Covenant races being the mindless bad guys again is the status quo again.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 3, 2019 3:17:08 GMT
Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, and Halo 5: Guardians all had humanity needing alien help in those fights. The only ones with actual alien military assistance in any real capacity was Halo 2&3; ODST wasn't so much alien "help" as it was the fireteam kidnapping an enemy asset. Even then, all the contributions of the Arbiter and his forces in games 2 & 3 are quickly shoved under the rug as we enter into Halo 4&5. The Covenant races being the mindless bad guys again is the status quo again. It was far more than just that in ODST. Rookie would be dead and the mission a failure if it wasn’t for the Engineer. As for Halo 5, a third of the game was literally humanity needing the Elite’s help to access a Guardian.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 4, 2019 14:39:24 GMT
The only ones with actual alien military assistance in any real capacity was Halo 2&3; ODST wasn't so much alien "help" as it was the fireteam kidnapping an enemy asset. Even then, all the contributions of the Arbiter and his forces in games 2 & 3 are quickly shoved under the rug as we enter into Halo 4&5. The Covenant races being the mindless bad guys again is the status quo again. It was far more than just that in ODST. Rookie would be dead and the mission a failure if it wasn’t for the Engineer. As for Halo 5, a third of the game was literally humanity needing the Elite’s help to access a Guardian. The Engineer didn't really care what it was repairing, as that is what it's species is designed to do. At most you could say that it was a contentious objector, as it didn't actually take up arms to defend the Rookie against the Covenant forces. Personally, given the Engineer's "engineered" proclivity with repairing and dismantling technology, to the point of obsession I think it would be more akin to UNSC forces kidnapping an autistic enemy asset; one that compulsively works to repair and reassemble technology, any technology; rather than gaining an ally in the fight. To Halo 5, one third of the game is a bit generous. It's more like one mission, plus cutscenes, out of a fifteen mission campaign. Even then it wasn't so much as an allied collaboration as it was Osiris team and Infinity taking advantage of the Covenant civil war (which seemed much more interesting than the human plot line IMO) to force a favor out of the Arbiter so they could then take the Guardian to Genesis. If there was another Guardian that was easier to get to they would have gone for it instead of the one on Shangelios; helping the Arbiter was a means to an end not one ally reach out to aid another. Indeed, if you read the novels set during that time period (as annoying as having to use alternative media is in order to understand what the heck is going on) we can see that ONI was actively sabotaging the Arbiter, deliberately provoking instability on Shangelios as to keep what is otherwise humanity's ally weak and disorganized. Going back to the general point of contention I have with this setting: It's just annoying to me how in Halo, or even in Bungie's other flagship series Destiny, that humanity is the golden child of the universe and all the other races are either mindlessly evil or is allowed to only exist in a subservient role to ubersmench humanity when we deign to allow it (because reasons). I tend to try and put myself into the settings I play in; to ask how I would act and think if I was an inhabitant of this setting. In both Halo and Destiny you have races/beings with essentially god-like power deciding that humans, and humans alone, are worthy of being the chosen people, and all others are inferior. That's great if you're experiencing the universe through the eyes of said humans, but if you happen to be born an alien? Its the disproportionate favor that we humans get, for no other reason that the fact that "we're special", that's annoying. And its really hard to call humanity the underdog when the the laws of the very IP are written to prop us up. The Lekego? The Elites? Those are the actual underdogs in the setting as it currently stands.
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Post by RZIBARA on Apr 27, 2020 16:00:53 GMT
Anyone here been playing the MCC on PC?
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