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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 12, 2017 18:18:53 GMT
I'm of the opinion, like most, that DA2 was too narrow a game. The possibilities were too thin but despite of it I probably may even like it the most as a story (Just wish the third act was much better) even over DA:O and DA:I and I loved the banter and characters.
That said, DA:I was very nice in how big and vast it was but at a point it struck me that it felt like it was too big for its own good. I don't think BioWare has really nailed the companion aspect being part of an "exploration-driven" game yet. There's banter sure, and I like being with someone when I explore but without knowing what it is, I just kept thinking the companions felt like they were just there in DA:I. Furthermore there's the notorious fetch quests which hopefully Andromeda proves that a game this size can be made without (the overwhelming amount at least). DA2 aside BioWare has a tendency to blow the scope bigger and bigger in the games they make, but I can't help but think maybe it's about time they dial back down a little bit. Not to DA2 levels but just like a sweetspot where there's more concentrated content like a sprawling city area. Maybe like Kirkwall but without a map seperating the areas and then a surrounding 4-5 areas that are like the ones in DA:I but more akin to the Oasis level in size so the content isn't spread too thin.
I haven't brushed up on my DA4 infos so all I know is that we're going to Tevinter... or something. I have a feeling that's plenty of opportunity for BioWare to create a lot of rumored lore from scratch as they have to finally present it in full detail. I think DA4 has plenty of opportunity to be like DA:I but slightly more condensed and rid of some of the litter of that game whilist providing a better narrative focus both for the plot, the subplots and how companions tie in. At least, that's my hopes for it.
If it were up to you, would you make DA4 bigger or smaller than DA:I?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Mar 12, 2017 18:25:22 GMT
For me, it's not a matter of smaller or bigger. It's a matter of more concentrated. You can have a large map that's open worldish, but there needs to be a correspondingly large quantity of high quality encounters. I'd rather have nothing but beautiful scenery to look at (the Hissing Wastes notwithstanding) than boring filler quests.
We're overdue for an urban setting, but that shouldn't necessarily reduce scope. You could pack a city block with all kinds of interesting content, with very little backtracking and fetch object A for NPC B, or escort NPC D to location D.
If you're talking about the narrative, that's a foregone conclusion: bigger and bolder than ever before, whether we like it or not. Once again, the world is at stake, but this time from at least three different major threats: Qunari invasion, Solas's army, and if he's even partially successful, the Evanuris. I know the Qunari invasion isn't on the same scale by a couple of orders of magnitude, but tell that to the refugees from Tevinter.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Mar 12, 2017 19:03:33 GMT
I don't like urban settings. I find them too concentrated. I would much rather range across the countryside.
I think having big spaces works better if they're not jam packed with content. The Deep Roads in DAO, for example, should have been bigger. I didn't want any more content in them; I just thought their scale could have been demonstrated more clearly with more space.
The way DAI's zones worked was good for me, for the most part, though too much of that content was unsatisfying. Some of the fetch and collection quests should have been longer more inter-related quest lines. But the scale of the areas and the density of content in them was something I really liked.
The monsters respawned too quickly, though, I think. Or perhaps they shouldn't have been able to respawn on top of us.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 12, 2017 19:35:16 GMT
I agree with PapaCharlie9, but with the proviso that I think, the smaller would be better. Between DA2 and Origin, due to the multiple playthrough (I hope the game will have a high re-playability factor).
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Post by rawgrim on Mar 12, 2017 21:01:01 GMT
I wouldn't mind large areas again IF that also means each area have a lot of story based quests etc. Huge areas with almost only fetch quests and various collecting stuff wasn't that good.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 21:12:59 GMT
the amount of areas were fine in origins and scale them to the size of Haven and add a detailed city, you've got yourself a fine ass DA game
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Post by dayze on Mar 12, 2017 21:30:34 GMT
Smaller but deep would probably work depending on what your talking about.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 12, 2017 21:54:32 GMT
It ought to be possible to do both the urban setting and surrounding countryside with Tevinter. After all we have been told about the place, I really hope they do take us to Minrathous but not if it is just going to feature a small section like we had with Val Royeaux. Done properly Minrathous could provide a very extensive and varied cityscape to explore. I'm hoping they hark back to Baldurs Gate 2 and have something like they did with Athkatla. There we had several completely different zones to explore within and under the city but the plot also took us out to surrounding areas as well. I think this is what they were trying to do with Kirkwall and failed.
I do think that the banter between companions was done better in both DAO and DA2 because it occurred with much more regularity and generally took place in "safe" urban areas so you could take your time and listen to their conversation. The banter was annoying in DAI because of the time lapse before it triggered and the fact that it could then occur just as you came under attack. There was many a time I just stood there instead of fighting because I was trying to catch what was being said. Then when I took them to Val Royeaux, thinking it would be a good place to hear what went on, it turned out that was the one place that banter didn't trigger, despite the fact that it was the ideal place considering you were just wandering around much of the time just looking for certain people, things or shops.
As for fetch quests and collecting things, I wouldn't mind so much if they had some relevance to the main plot. In ME2 scanning planets could seem rather tedious but it was worth doing because it enabled you to undertake upgrades that impacted on the success of your final mission. I had really thought this was gong to be the case with the Skyhold upgrades, Corypheus would eventually attack us there and without the upgrades we would have a less than ideal outcome, so was rather disappointed when it turned out they were merely cosmetic.
It would really make fetch quests more significant if completing them meant you received a benefit of some sort further down the line which could make for a better outcome in the main story. May be a relative of the person you helped allows you access to a better weapon, or a secret passageway that gets you somewhere quicker in a timed section and more people survive as a result. So you can still complete the main plot without doing the fetch quest but it makes for a better outcome if you do.
Of course some of the fetch quests in DAI had some significance to the War Table, for example those various fetch quests we were given at the Crossroads in the Hinterlands could ultimately result in another agent, which in turn added to the number for a particular advisor and thus unlocked further options at the War Table but it wasn't readily apparent this was the case and the end result wasn't significant enough to make a difference in the final analysis.
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Post by fenris on Mar 13, 2017 13:44:55 GMT
For me, the answer to that is simple: I want a world the size of DA:O at least (all of Ferelden, Orlais or Tevinter, etc.) AND one or two HUGE, DA2 style cities!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 13:57:55 GMT
DA2 style, but with different landscapes/interiors for every quest will be my preference. I would strongly prefer the bread crumbs trail and a very specific clear journal with main and sidequests/diversions split up.
Inquisition is far too large and far too hard to get around. Imo games should make you forget the aggregations of the RL and put you in the kindly happy disposition. Well, Inquisition, on several occasions put me in homicidal mood, and my blood pressure still shoots up when I recall North part of the Exalted plains. So do four doors to get into the War Room every. Frigging. Time. True OWs let you fly, and do not have invisible walls for a reason. You can't have it both ways.
Banter saturation between the characters building up as the game progresses and the pc becomes more defined as a person would be something I would love to see, as opposite as it tapering off. I would love the final areas of the game were like Awakening or Legacy DLCs in that respect.
I also do not want a centralized hub. I prefer conversations in the camps or while adventuring.
In short, omg, I want... Jade Empire! Why do I always want Jade Empire?
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 13, 2017 14:10:05 GMT
I guess I would prefer to see it scaled back, at least in terms of the number of extra areas. DAI had several areas with no role in the main story. That isn't inherently a bad thing, but they just kind of emphasized how bare bones the main story was.
So I would prefer to see more focused use of what the game has to offer, preferably meaning higher quality side quests and more of them per area.
I would also like to see Minrathous done a bit like DA2, with one large city broken up into districts, but preferably larger and more lively than what Kirkwall offered.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Mar 14, 2017 4:51:18 GMT
I think I'd like to see slightly smaller wilderness maps with each major area having it's own quest line like each planet in swtor does. And have any cities contain multiple zones presented on their own map like Kirkwall and Denerim but on a greater scale (larger/more zones) with more content, "deeper".
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Post by lordofwar on Mar 14, 2017 5:43:49 GMT
I hated Inquisition's giant, empty filler zones. Hated them. Forests, deserts, swamps, what the hell's the point? I'm not a park ranger, I'm the leader of a powerful political and military movement, I should be negotiating, taking down forts, those sorts of things. The parts of Inquisition where you actually do things like that, Emprise Du Lion, most of the main quests, Trespasser, were good. The rest was tedious busy work that I'd like to avoid for DA4.
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Post by shroomofdoom on Mar 15, 2017 13:25:38 GMT
I'm with the scaled back camp, I liked some of the sprawling maps, first time around, but they really put me off in subsequent run throughs. DA:I got least amount of replays from me. I'm a completionist, I can't help but collect every damn shard and every silly star puzzle thingy and clean up every single treasure map, even if I know the reward is worthless. I'm the proverbial fairy that HAS to count every grain of spilled salt I also agree that while a reduction in scale would be preferable, it's about focus primarily. Having hte focus be more concentrated is more important than scale. If they can do big and sprawling while still maintaining relevance, I'd be for it. I would like to see Bioware go back and do what they tried to do with DA:2 but this time, do it properly. Big Minrathous, lots to do and plenty going on and to see (get involved in) but with external zones, similar to DA:I but somewhat smaller, have locations outside of the city, be distinct and memorable (for the right reasons, not the wrong ones) Hrungr had some great images for how they could make each location look different, in another thread. Scale doesn't need to be huge and empty vistas to take your breath away. Sometimes scale can be intricacy and imagination, combine that with fulfilling and meaningful things to do and we wont even notice that the world is actually a little bit smaller, per cubic foot. What I don't want is to feel like I have to use the fast travel system or face a laborious trek across well trodden scenery, full of bears, or spiders, that are more hindrance than engaging.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 16, 2017 2:26:12 GMT
There is nothing wrong with beautiful vistas, but if they are empty, I'm either going to want exploration as a huge game mechanic (think like Miasmata or The Long Dark) or I think it's a waste. You can give me beautiful scenery to look at even in a small place.
If I'm going to see cities (note the plural, I don't want just one city), I want them to be smaller, but unique. I want Carastes to look like a busy mercantile port, with shops, and bazaars, festive and lively. Then Qarinus, which is close to the qunari, can have a more military feel.
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Post by xassantex on Mar 16, 2017 3:39:55 GMT
Likely we'll end up in Tevinter and possibly in the Fade with Eluvians considering Solas' plans. I would also like a city but something far bigger than what we got with Val Royeux and with large buildings. Trespasser almost sets a bit of a bigger city feeling since we go from building to building through the Eluvians with a few bridges which could be streets in the real world. That kind of scope might be nice.
Overall, I didn't find the maps too big in DAI except Hissing wastes of course, that was ridiculous.
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Post by thats1evildude on Mar 16, 2017 4:28:08 GMT
We're overdue for an urban setting, but that shouldn't necessarily reduce scope. Overdue? We just spent a whole game confined to Kirkwall. Also, colour me one of those people who didn't mind the Hissing Wastes. I actually thought it'd be way bigger, based on how people spoke in horrified whispers about this endless desert.
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Post by lynroy on Mar 16, 2017 8:19:43 GMT
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Post by shroomofdoom on Mar 16, 2017 12:06:33 GMT
We're overdue for an urban setting, but that shouldn't necessarily reduce scope. Overdue? We just spent a whole game confined to Kirkwall. Also, colour me one of those people who didn't mind the Hissing Wastes. I actually thought it'd be way bigger, based on how people spoke in horrified whispers about this endless desert. I think it's the quality of the city, people are really thinking of, when talking about an urban experience being over due. Kirkwall was fine, but it felt small, like really small, an issue compounded by the re-use of locations. While what we see of Kirkwall has some distinctive character, I always felt like I was getting to see the bare minimal amount of it. I'd have loved to see a more expansive vision of that dark and forboding city. With more than a handful of obvious nooks and cranies to explore and it's more or less "traditional" layout. TBH, Kirkwall didn't feel any different from any other urban setting, in just about every other game of this sort. Which it needn't have been.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 16, 2017 12:47:26 GMT
In this case, I prefer to ask myself "What would Anders do?"
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Post by shroomofdoom on Mar 16, 2017 13:27:08 GMT
In this case, I prefer to ask myself "What would Anders do?" Blow the place sky high i'd imagine, baring the kittens
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 13:31:38 GMT
In this case, I prefer to ask myself "What would Anders do?" Blow the place sky high i'd imagine, baring the kittens :D The franchise can use excitement and emotional break-down like that after Inquisition's story impact course unflinchingly set between "bland" and "barely there". But it's going to be Tevinter, right? That means color, huge stone dragons, grand ruins of cities if not the cities themselves! They can make some cool stuff with that! And, like, a story!
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Post by shroomofdoom on Mar 16, 2017 13:49:59 GMT
Blow the place sky high i'd imagine, baring the kittens The franchise can use excitement and emotional break-down like that after Inquisition's story impact course unflinchingly set between "bland" and "barely there". But it's going to be Tevinter, right? That means color, huge stone dragons, grand ruins of cities if not the cities themselves! They can make some cool stuff with that! And, like, a story! yes, but not any kind of story, a good story! That we can really invest in, and big cities (living and dead) that story takes place in, and countryside and... and... and... I'm beginning to realise, Bioware have a monumental task before them. I don't think we'll ever be happy lol I want the whole world! and I want to lock it, all up in my pocket!
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Post by Iddy on Mar 16, 2017 13:52:54 GMT
Blow the place sky high i'd imagine, baring the kittens The franchise can use excitement and emotional break-down like that after Inquisition's story impact course unflinchingly set between "bland" and "barely there". But it's going to be Tevinter, right? That means color, huge stone dragons, grand ruins of cities if not the cities themselves! They can make some cool stuff with that! And, like, a story! You are so very right. There was no turmoil or anything legitimately emotional about Bull's suffering if the Chargers are sacrificed, or Varric mourning Hawke, or Dorian's issues with his family, or Blackwall's reveal and certainly not the Solas romance. Nope. Nothing there.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 16, 2017 13:55:15 GMT
You know what I really look forward to in DA4? It will take some pressure off DAI, as the negativity born from nostalgia glasses will be aimed at the new game instead. Then people will finally acknowledge DAI's positive points, just like DA2 started receiving more appreciation in the recent years.
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