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Post by Catilina on Mar 24, 2017 19:36:06 GMT
Oh, yes, that may help, and at full moon, at midnight three times spit backward over your shoulder... Now your talking! If enough of us invoke dark names in secret ritual, we're bound to get what we want, right? Or was that on my list of things not to do.... meh, what harm could come from prancing naked beneath the moon and calling out the dark and forgotten gods of development promises unfulfilled? It's not like DA4 could become a bland and insipid soulless vessel for our sorrow and regrets for what might have been.... Oh, wait, that might actually happen, best not to tempt fate and stick with crossed fingers and wishful thinking, much safer that way. A little Blood Magic then? Just for making things easier? No? Okay, let's be safe, and cross the fingers!
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Post by shroomofdoom on Mar 24, 2017 19:43:05 GMT
Now your talking! If enough of us invoke dark names in secret ritual, we're bound to get what we want, right? Or was that on my list of things not to do.... meh, what harm could come from prancing naked beneath the moon and calling out the dark and forgotten gods of development promises unfulfilled? It's not like DA4 could become a bland and insipid soulless vessel for our sorrow and regrets for what might have been.... Oh, wait, that might actually happen, best not to tempt fate and stick with crossed fingers and wishful thinking, much safer that way. A little Blood Magic then? Just for making things easier? No? Okay, let's be safe, and cross the fingers! Now that there's some black magic!! Quickly! Kill it with fire! lol But yes, I'm doing just that, with both hands and feet. Oh great gaming fairy, please will you make DA:4 the most wonderfullest, and specialtastic game ever, pretty please.
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Post by allanschumacher on Mar 25, 2017 2:33:47 GMT
I'm of the opinion, like most, that DA2 was too narrow a game. The possibilities were too thin but despite of it I probably may even like it the most as a story (Just wish the third act was much better) even over DA:O and DA:I and I loved the banter and characters. One interesting thing is I am currently (finally...) plaything through The Witcher 3. While wandering around Novigrad part of me was wondering "Hmmmm, make this city a little bit bigger, keep some of the outskirts or maybe individual maps for stuff away from Kirkwall, and I wonder what it'd be like to play a DA2 along these lines with some more up to date tech to facilitate it a bit better." Just my random musing for the day have fun dissecting!
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 25, 2017 2:46:39 GMT
I'm of the opinion, like most, that DA2 was too narrow a game. The possibilities were too thin but despite of it I probably may even like it the most as a story (Just wish the third act was much better) even over DA:O and DA:I and I loved the banter and characters. One interesting thing is I am currently (finally...) plaything through The Witcher 3. While wandering around Novigrad part of me was wondering "Hmmmm, make this city a little bit bigger, keep some of the outskirts or maybe individual maps for stuff away from Kirkwall, and I wonder what it'd be like to play a DA2 along these lines with some more up to date tech to facilitate it a bit better." Just my random musing for the day have fun dissecting! ... I wonder if it's too early to gleefully rub my hands and be all "Yasss, just as I suspected"
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Post by phoray on Mar 25, 2017 3:18:28 GMT
I'm of the opinion, like most, that DA2 was too narrow a game. The possibilities were too thin but despite of it I probably may even like it the most as a story (Just wish the third act was much better) even over DA:O and DA:I and I loved the banter and characters. One interesting thing is I am currently (finally...) plaything through The Witcher 3. While wandering around Novigrad part of me was wondering "Hmmmm, make this city a little bit bigger, keep some of the outskirts or maybe individual maps for stuff away from Kirkwall, and I wonder what it'd be like to play a DA2 along these lines with some more up to date tech to facilitate it a bit better." Just my random musing for the day have fun dissecting! I recently played TW3 and found Novigrad exhausting, and couldn't wait to get back to the countryside. Skellige Main Village was more my style.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Mar 25, 2017 10:13:18 GMT
The scale of the game's plot or story isn't as relevant as the ability to make every area you want the player to explore relevant to said story or plot. That was most people's issue with Inquisition's size (not that I have said issues). As long as you're visiting a place of plot moving significance you're good to go. I completely disagree. Having everywhere I can go be relevant to the core plot ends up feeling like I'm only allowed to go places that relate to the core plot. I want to be able to go places that genuinely don't matter, and do so for my own reasons. That those places even exist makes the game world seem more real because it has a purpose beyond merely being a place for the plot to happen. The world should feel like it exists on its own, rather than to facilitate the story. The story is something that happens in the setting, but the setting would still be there even if that story weren't happening.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2017 15:40:24 GMT
The scale of the game's plot or story isn't as relevant as the ability to make every area you want the player to explore relevant to said story or plot. That was most people's issue with Inquisition's size (not that I have said issues). As long as you're visiting a place of plot moving significance you're good to go. I completely disagree. Having everywhere I can go be relevant to the core plot ends up feeling like I'm only allowed to go places that relate to the core plot. I want to be able to go places that genuinely don't matter, and do so for my own reasons. That those places even exist makes the game world seem more real because it has a purpose beyond merely being a place for the plot to happen. The world should feel like it exists on its own, rather than to facilitate the story. The story is something that happens in the setting, but the setting would still be there even if that story weren't happening. And as long as it is clearly divided by the game design into the story-moving areas (that you can clearly see IN GAME) and the "pick one of those 5 areas to check all of them out a little to grind your levels/gear" then it's fine and give replay-ability. But if it is like in Inquisition where you have no idea that you can finish the game AND skip 5 to 6 major areas COMPLETELY and at no penalty AT ALL, then folks who want to mostly play the main storyline are punished because without the external information they have no clue they do not have to do the side-quests that are hugely exceeding the size of the main line/areas. In fact, ridiculously, the game does not even use the games' own assets for the story-line, taking you to the inaccessible plot-specific areas. If DA2 did not have enough different backgrounds for quests, Inquisition seem to have far too many areas without content other than hunter-gathering lifestyle. Sure, some of you folks love your 200 hours of area roaming, but a lot of us want a 30-40 hours condensed gaming experience with a good story, and simply cannot enjoy a game that takes 5 months or so to complete with barely any story you can remember by the time you finish it. There is more story in Trespasser than in DA:I.
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Post by Wulfram on Mar 25, 2017 18:45:26 GMT
In terms of in-universe geographical scale, I don't think it directly matters a great deal. However, its good if the game can continue to offer fresh looking environments, and a decent geographical range can help that. Though on the other hand I felt DAI made travelling between far flung regions a bit too common. I'd probably prefer a chapter based approach, like Prologue - the Silent Plains (Desert) Chapter 1 - Minrathous, Valarian plains and the High Reaches (City, farms, mountains) Chapter 2 - Seheron (jungle, Qunari city) Chapter 3 - Arlathan forest (forest, elven ruins)
In terms of the scale of the maps in terms of explorable square kilometres, I'd personally rather see smaller maps reached from a world map, like DA:O or BG2. But if they want to go open world I'd want it to be big so it can have a somewhat believable sense of scale. DAI's problem was their apparent need to fill up space with lots of little quests - we'd have been better off with fewer, better, more involved quests.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Mar 26, 2017 10:52:37 GMT
And as long as it is clearly divided by the game design into the story-moving areas (that you can clearly see IN GAME) and the "pick one of those 5 areas to check all of them out a little to grind your levels/gear" then it's fine and give replay-ability. Absolutely not. If the game comes right out and tells us which parts relate to "the story" and whicb don't, it's basically forcing us to metagame. I want not to know. Any such metagame information like that needs to be optional. At the very least, we need to be able to turn it off or hide it. In DA2, the only way to do that was never to read the journal, but since the journal was the only way to learn a bunch of necessary quest information, not reading it basically broke the game. Wait, what? Why would they think they need to complete that content? There's no in-game reason to think that. Regardless, this is supposed to be a roleplaying game. Play your character and see where he goes. If you're playing it to have someone tell you a story, you're in the wrong genre. This is a legitimate complaint. I didn't like this either. This segregation of the story content was dumb. I don’t even like Trespasser. It's too story-focused, which makes it boring. Awakening has the same problem. I still think BioWare got scope and pacing just about perfect in the original Baldur's Gate (80-100 hour game, with level 1-8 gameplay, so roughly one level-up every 10 hours of play).
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Mar 26, 2017 10:58:03 GMT
In terms of in-universe geographical scale, I don't think it directly matters a great deal. However, its good if the game can continue to offer fresh looking environments, and a decent geographical range can help that. Though on the other hand I felt DAI made travelling between far flung regions a bit too common. I'd probably prefer a chapter based approach, like Prologue - the Silent Plains (Desert) Chapter 1 - Minrathous, Valarian plains and the High Reaches (City, farms, mountains) Chapter 2 - Seheron (jungle, Qunari city) Chapter 3 - Arlathan forest (forest, elven ruins) In terms of the scale of the maps in terms of explorable square kilometres, I'd personally rather see smaller maps reached from a world map, like DA:O or BG2. But if they want to go open world I'd want it to be big so it can have a somewhat believable sense of scale. DAI's problem was their apparent need to fill up space with lots of little quests - we'd have been better off with fewer, better, more involved quests. They certainly should have handled the travel time between regions better. DAO was better at this, until the end, where you supposedly rush back and forth between Denerim and Recliffe. What? That's weeks of travel!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 14:03:31 GMT
And as long as it is clearly divided by the game design into the story-moving areas (that you can clearly see IN GAME) and the "pick one of those 5 areas to check all of them out a little to grind your levels/gear" then it's fine and give replay-ability. Absolutely not. If the game comes right out and tells us which parts relate to "the story" and whicb don't, it's basically forcing us to metagame. I want not to know. Any such metagame information like that needs to be optional. At the very least, we need to be able to turn it off or hide it. In DA2, the only way to do that was never to read the journal, but since the journal was the only way to learn a bunch of necessary quest information, not reading it basically broke the game. Wait, what? Why would they think they need to complete that content? There's no in-game reason to think that. Regardless, this is supposed to be a roleplaying game. Play your character and see where he goes. If you're playing it to have someone tell you a story, you're in the wrong genre. This is a legitimate complaint. I didn't like this either. This segregation of the story content was dumb. I don’t even like Trespasser. It's too story-focused, which makes it boring. Awakening has the same problem. I still think BioWare got scope and pacing just about perfect in the original Baldur's Gate (80-100 hour game, with level 1-8 gameplay, so roughly one level-up every 10 hours of play). Well, you want what you want, and you don't feel like adopting any concessions for anyone else to enjoy the game in any other way than yours. But judging from Andromeda they did take the criticism to account, so if DA4 comes out, it hopefully will be like Andromeda where exploration is presented in a way that is far more to my liking. In this case, I will purchase DA4. Still gonna wait for a sale, because Inquisition made me very cautious, and you can't rely on reviews any more.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2017 14:05:15 GMT
In terms of in-universe geographical scale, I don't think it directly matters a great deal. However, its good if the game can continue to offer fresh looking environments, and a decent geographical range can help that. Though on the other hand I felt DAI made travelling between far flung regions a bit too common. I'd probably prefer a chapter based approach, like Prologue - the Silent Plains (Desert) Chapter 1 - Minrathous, Valarian plains and the High Reaches (City, farms, mountains) Chapter 2 - Seheron (jungle, Qunari city) Chapter 3 - Arlathan forest (forest, elven ruins) In terms of the scale of the maps in terms of explorable square kilometres, I'd personally rather see smaller maps reached from a world map, like DA:O or BG2. But if they want to go open world I'd want it to be big so it can have a somewhat believable sense of scale. DAI's problem was their apparent need to fill up space with lots of little quests - we'd have been better off with fewer, better, more involved quests. That sounds nice, as long as there is no ice/snow in the forest. Frankly, just cityscape and jungles and Quarian city would be plenty for me.
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Post by ddj on Mar 27, 2017 9:00:21 GMT
I would agree that DA2 was too narrow a game. I would like to see the fourth game expand the universe of DA. So far we have seen Ferelden and Orlais. It is time to move onto the evil empire and other spots, hopefully without dragging the entire cast of DAO, DA2 and DAI with us. The only person we know for certain is dead is Wynne who died in one of the books.
I suspect that the reason Bioware does not wish a cameo of the Warden comes from the possibility that the Warden dies at the end of DAO although they don't seem to mind a miraculous resurrection possibility in the expansions. I suspect that some of the revelations of what will happen to a live Warden without a cure which aggravated a number of people are also a reason - i.e., males - you get to go insane and become a darkspawn; females - you get to go insane and face the possibility of becoming a broodmother. But back on track, I would like to see a big expansion into many countries, and while I am curious about the evil empire, I would really like to see Rivaini and witness a nation of Isabellas.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Mar 27, 2017 16:56:40 GMT
Well, you want what you want, and you don't feel like adopting any concessions for anyone else to enjoy the game in any other way than yours. But judging from Andromeda they did take the criticism to account, so if DA4 comes out, it hopefully will be like Andromeda where exploration is presented in a way that is far more to my liking. In this case, I will purchase DA4. Still gonna wait for a sale, because Inquisition made me very cautious, and you can't rely on reviews any more. DAO was my compromise position. I feel no need to compromise further. It appears I have no interest in playing MEA. I have made no effort to acquire or play it. That said, the entire ME trilogy went so far in the wrong direction that to me MEA seems like a step in the right direction. Why anyone would judge MEA by its features relative to DAI's is beyond me.
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 27, 2017 17:30:10 GMT
Regarding optional areas being connected to the main plot:
My view is that even optional areas should feel connected to the main plot in some way, even if tangentially.
But what's more important is that those areas have strong storylines in their own right. Take Jaws of Haakon for instance, it managed to find a pretty good balance. The storyline had a tangential link to the Inquisition if not the overarching plot, but the story itself was strong enough to justify exploring the area and took us from end to end of it. That's the sort of thing I would like to see. Of the areas we got in Inquisition, Crestwood came closest to this in terms of an area with its own plot.
What I dislike are areas like the Exalted Plains or the Emerald Graves where the reason for being there are vague and generally aimless.
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Post by Wulfram on Mar 27, 2017 18:41:56 GMT
In a game like DAI (or DAO) any area should be somewhat connected to the main plot because stuff like the Divine getting blown up and a giant hole appearing in the sky isn't exactly a local issue. The Skyrim/Oblivion thing where most places don't care very much about dragons and demons eating people just outside the city walls isn't great
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Post by Warrick on Mar 30, 2017 11:20:30 GMT
Being selfish, maybe scale it down because I don't have as many hours to play games as I used to, hehe. 15 hours sounds good to me for a non-open-world RPG. It's what it usually takes me to play ME1 through.
Tevinter and Seheron have great possibilities. Regardless of size, I expect fresh plots. Good stories that elicit debate. Bioware already scratched the "characters and exploration" itch with Inquisition and Andromeda. I'm ready to stay at the edge of my seat, unsure what will happen next!
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 30, 2017 12:39:02 GMT
Being selfish, maybe scale it down because I don't have as many hours to play games as I used to, hehe. 15 hours sounds good to me for a non-open-world RPG. It's what it usually takes me to play ME1 through. Tevinter and Seheron have great possibilities. Regardless of size, I expect fresh plots. Good stories that elicit debate. Bioware already scratched the "characters and exploration" itch with Inquisition and Andromeda. I'm ready to stay at the edge of my seat, unsure what will happen next! Hmmm? ...What was it? Yeah, I think BW got that covered for now
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Post by Gwydden on Mar 30, 2017 15:01:09 GMT
Being selfish, maybe scale it down because I don't have as many hours to play games as I used to, hehe. 15 hours sounds good to me for a non-open-world RPG. It's what it usually takes me to play ME1 through. Tevinter and Seheron have great possibilities. Regardless of size, I expect fresh plots. Good stories that elicit debate. Bioware already scratched the "characters and exploration" itch with Inquisition and Andromeda. I'm ready to stay at the edge of my seat, unsure what will happen next! Hmmm? ...What was it? Yeah, I think BW got that covered for now You don't know how much pain you're causing me :sob:
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Post by shroomofdoom on Apr 1, 2017 14:13:47 GMT
I have to say, that in the past, some of the most memorable gaming worlds and indeed, approaches by game developers, that I liked, where the ones that, at first glance, seemed linear. The environments that I went through, thinking, ok this is where the story is taking place and I'll prgress through this area having completed all the content to be found here and have no reason to come back, only to gain some ability or story element later on, that required me to go back and suddenly find, ingeniously hidden in some nook or cranny, a heretofore, unknown path to entirely new locations, that had relevance, either as areas of exploration interest or as locations for side quests and activities to be found. I think some of the problems with game world scope, is the need to have it all laid out upfront, from the get go, ala Skyrim style. That can be great and I get that some people relish that (I do too at times) but I do really want that sense of discovering something that I had previously overlooked or not thought to explore at all, that wasn't immediately obvious, but when the time was right, if I thought about it in just the right way, I was rewarded with some fun content.
A (not very good) example would be the Legacy of Kain, Soul Reaver, that game is quite linear, but it also had some pretty extensive areas that only opened up after gaining certain abilities, that drove me forward in a way similar to the storyline itself and had me walking over old territory, jst to see if I could find some content I might have otherwise missed. It's not the best example, but it's the only one I can think of at the moment.
(EDIT: I got the Flu, so my brain is blurry, if I can be bothered to think of some other examples, I shall come back and add them here!)
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Post by Warrior DM on Apr 1, 2017 20:33:10 GMT
I would be content with Dragon Age 4 having roughly the same sized areas as DA:I, while pushing for more cinematic camera angles with all the side quests. That might be a challenge in of itself, but after BioWare's experiences with the Frostbite engine I believe they can pull it off.
Having a static camera made most quests in Inquisition seem unimportant, and "MMO-like".
Slightly unrelated note: I hope companions get their own mounts in the next game. I never used mounts myself, just because I wanted to hear all of the banter.
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Post by auu on Apr 3, 2017 2:10:39 GMT
A tad smaller but more concentrated.
And less deserts. Please. Less deserts.
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Post by shroomofdoom on Apr 3, 2017 6:34:55 GMT
I would be content with Dragon Age 4 having roughly the same sized areas as DA:I, while pushing for more cinematic camera angles with all the side quests. That might be a challenge in of itself, but after BioWare's experiences with the Frostbite engine I believe they can pull it off. Having a static camera made most quests in Inquisition seem unimportant, and "MMO-like". Slightly unrelated note: I hope companions get their own mounts in the next game. I never used mounts myself, just because I wanted to hear all of the banter.I second companion Mounts, or at least, banter when mounted, I'm not huge on mounts as is, but the fact that mounting up meant banter died, I steered well clear. If banter still occured while mounted, I'd have been more inclined to hoof it about the map and not use the fast travel system once a certain amount of banter had taken place.
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Post by rapscallioness on Apr 3, 2017 20:58:50 GMT
I would like to see them scale back the areas, however, I'm not sure that's at the root of what I really want. What I would like to see from any potential DA4 is an approach to levels/maps similar to DAO. By that I mean each map you went to had a focused, compelling and unique narrative to that area. The Dalish and the Brecilian Forest had the whole Zarathrian (sp.?), werewolf, "lady of the forest" thing going on; Orzammar and politics; Redcliffe and..all that. Each area had it's own focused story that ultimately tied in the overall story. Yet, each was compelling on its own. And each had layers to the area both literally and figuratively. In all these areas you start out just meeting everybody and noting that something's off. During the course of the quest line of the areas you need to dig deeper and that ends up taking you to some strange places; where you need to make some kind of choice about how to handle things. Orzammar starts out with an intro to dwarven culture and politics, and ends with you going deep into the deep roads, discovering all kinds wild stuff and then Branka and the anvil. You needed to that, though, in order to get the support of Paragon, to get a new leader, to get support to fight the archdemon. Redcliffe goes into layers of discovery. Ulitmately leads you to Haven, which is another weird story where you have to dig deeper and find out some weird stuff in order to help Eamon..and get support to fight the archdemon. All the quest areas go along those lines. They all have their own unique stories that are compelling, mysterious,choice driven, but ultimately tie back to your overarching goal. This is what I want from areas in Dragon Age. A focused, unique compelling narrative. For example, the Hissing Wastes: I love the atmosphere of that place. I liked the dwarven lore you could find. However, I would have really loved to have run into some hidden clan/house of dwarves that were descendants of the dwarves that came to the surface before the First Blight. I would have liked to have met them,perhaps seen an underground city that they had built after all this time; have a story/quest begin where you have to find this WMD that they were trying to keep out of the hands of ...somebody else. Maybe this House now considers themselves protectors of that tech, or how exactly they bind spirits to runes without being magical creatures. So, basically, instead of reading about them, I would have liked to have encountered them, interacted, and quested. I want to feel that grand sense of Quest with the areas. That was just an example, but I would like to see these areas have a strong, focused story connected to them, like in DAO. I don't think that comes down to size, but rather what they're doing with it. I want some emotional, grab you by the "Feelzuh" narrative from BW. If they can deliver that along with large maps, then great. If it's too difficult, though, then I prefer they scale back and focus on a strong narrative in fewer, smaller areas.
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formerfiend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
Posts: 547 Likes: 955
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formerfiend
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formerfiend
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Former_Fiend
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 6, 2017 9:00:17 GMT
I personally like the idea of DA alternating between epic and intimate stories, and that DA4 would be a more scaled down, personal story rather than a grand, world shattering one.
I feel that knowing how not to escalate is important to the progression of a series. Everything always getting bigger and grander can cause a real disillusionment for me.
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