Doominike
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Post by Doominike on Apr 14, 2017 0:53:52 GMT
The story would make more sense with a smaller scale (ie. not world threatening) threat, it's weird when you have a new PC doing everything when the old ones are still around somewhere. If it's a Tevinder-centric threat it makes sense that the Ferelden WC doesn't appear, etc
Also, apparently the Inquisitor has a personal issue with Solas but DA4 PC is gonna deal with him ? Ok
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Post by Walter Black on Apr 14, 2017 1:41:25 GMT
I personally like the idea of DA alternating between epic and intimate stories, and that DA4 would be a more scaled down, personal story rather than a grand, world shattering one. I feel that knowing how not to escalate is important to the progression of a series. Everything always getting bigger and grander can cause a real disillusionment for me. Unfortunately, with all the political and magical power struggles, slave revolts, possible civil war and yet another possible succession crisis (because OF COURSE THERE IS), the Qunari war heating up, Solas' plans and whether or the Evanaris and/or Titans show up, more than likely in DA4 our protagonist wakes up on Tuesday .
I too would like a smaller scale Dragon Age game with an epic personal story, but one where Thedas itself remains relatively stable. DA2 done right, if you will. For a little while, at least...
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 14, 2017 2:22:41 GMT
I personally like the idea of DA alternating between epic and intimate stories, and that DA4 would be a more scaled down, personal story rather than a grand, world shattering one. I feel that knowing how not to escalate is important to the progression of a series. Everything always getting bigger and grander can cause a real disillusionment for me. Here's a little problem - the story is just now getting grander. With the ending of Trespasser they've opened the floodgates to the reservoir they've been filling up since 1st game. That doesn't mean that the game can't feel 'scaled down'. But them scaling down the story and going back to intimacy NOW - when they've set up Qunari at the verge of attacking everything that lies South from them and the world possibly at the risk of ending, Titans waking and ancient gods walking Thedas? ...Yeah, no scaling back on that one.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 14, 2017 2:30:05 GMT
I personally like the idea of DA alternating between epic and intimate stories, and that DA4 would be a more scaled down, personal story rather than a grand, world shattering one. I feel that knowing how not to escalate is important to the progression of a series. Everything always getting bigger and grander can cause a real disillusionment for me. Here's a little problem - the story is just now getting grander. With the ending of Trespasser they've opened the floodgates to the reservoir they've been filling up since 1st game. That doesn't mean that the game can't feel 'scaled down'. But them scaling down the story and going back to intimacy NOW - when they've set up Qunari at the verge of attacking everything that lies South from them and the world possibly at the risk of ending, Titans waking and ancient gods walking Thedas? ...Yeah, no scaling back on that one. So: they can keep focus on the grandiose story, and to forget the shit-quests, gatherings etc. (Almost) Everyone will be happy.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 14, 2017 2:37:06 GMT
Here's a little problem - the story is just now getting grander. With the ending of Trespasser they've opened the floodgates to the reservoir they've been filling up since 1st game. That doesn't mean that the game can't feel 'scaled down'. But them scaling down the story and going back to intimacy NOW - when they've set up Qunari at the verge of attacking everything that lies South from them and the world possibly at the risk of ending, Titans waking and ancient gods walking Thedas? ...Yeah, no scaling back on that one. So: they can keep focus on the grandiose story, and to forget the shit-quests, gatherings etc. (Almost) Everyone will be happy. LOL, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because we're inching towards story getting even grander doesn't mean we're at the apogee yet, and we definitely have a ton of stuff to find out that will not simply be spelled out to us. So prepare yourself for a disappointment, I guess, if you want to see it that way.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Apr 14, 2017 15:08:12 GMT
I think the real question is whether a 30 to 40 hour game streamlined DA4 is acceptable in a world where video games are almost $90 dollars with taxes?
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 14, 2017 15:52:19 GMT
I think the real question is whether a 30 to 40 hour game streamlined DA4 is acceptable in a world where video games are almost $90 dollars with taxes? That assumes that DA4 will be 'streamlined' to begin with. It also assumes that people buy games based on dollar-per-minute basis, and not factors like overall quality or enjoyment. 30-40 hours seems quite solid if we're talking about things focused around crit-path - question remains what else will be there.
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Post by Wulfram on Apr 14, 2017 18:45:07 GMT
I think the real question is whether a 30 to 40 hour game streamlined DA4 is acceptable in a world where video games are almost $90 dollars with taxes? 30-40 hours is still a pretty long game by modern standards. That's where the games in the Mass Effect trilogy ended up. As long as the 30-40 hours Dragon Age includes the good bits and trims the filler, then I don't see why it would be a problem.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 14, 2017 19:16:47 GMT
I personally like the idea of DA alternating between epic and intimate stories, and that DA4 would be a more scaled down, personal story rather than a grand, world shattering one. I feel that knowing how not to escalate is important to the progression of a series. Everything always getting bigger and grander can cause a real disillusionment for me. Here's a little problem - the story is just now getting grander. With the ending of Trespasser they've opened the floodgates to the reservoir they've been filling up since 1st game. That doesn't mean that the game can't feel 'scaled down'. But them scaling down the story and going back to intimacy NOW - when they've set up Qunari at the verge of attacking everything that lies South from them and the world possibly at the risk of ending, Titans waking and ancient gods walking Thedas? ...Yeah, no scaling back on that one. You might be right; it might be too abrupt a shift to go from building all of that up to go in the other direction. Would give some people whiplash. Of course that argument leaves me with less of a feeling of excitement for this grand, epic adventure that's been promised and more with a resigned sigh that I might just have to write off DA4 as a game to skip and hope that Bioware gets it out of their system and returns to their senses by DA4.
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Post by Soulforge on Apr 15, 2017 10:01:38 GMT
Scale it down in terms of open world. I've only played DAI once, and I'm not sure that will ever change. The main story felt far too short and lacked impact. I'd rather have a well-told main story with great sidequests than vast empty maps with MMO style drudgery. Andromeda improved upon the formula, but not by much. I don't usually like open world, especially in BioWare games.
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Apr 15, 2017 10:51:29 GMT
Scale it down to a Dragon Age Origins size of a game. DA:I was clearly too large for Bioware to handle well. I prefer a smaller scope with higher quality content.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 22, 2017 17:08:18 GMT
DAI was largely a result of bioware over correcting due to the criticisms of DA2. Bioware needs to stop over correcting all the time. Yes it does need to be scaled down but in moderation we don't want bioware over scaling down.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 22, 2017 17:12:39 GMT
DAI was largely a result of bioware over correcting due to the criticisms of DA2. Bioware needs to stop over correcting all the time. Yes it does need to be scaled down but in moderation we don't want bioware over scaling down. The people, who disappointed in DA2, expected that Bioware will back to the Origins, not really expected a messed up Skyrim hybrid, I suppose.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 22, 2017 17:37:50 GMT
DAI was largely a result of bioware over correcting due to the criticisms of DA2. Bioware needs to stop over correcting all the time. Yes it does need to be scaled down but in moderation we don't want bioware over scaling down. The people, who disappointed in DA2, expected that Bioware will back to the Origins, not really expected a messed up Skyrim hybrid, I suppose. Well yeah Skyrim did play a huge factor in bioware getting it into their heads that bigger is better. As someone that enjoys both TES and DA one of the things I liked was how different they were from each other. DA focused on a more linear narrative driven experience while TES was a more open experience a fantasy world experience but at the expense of a strong narrative. In DAI bioware tried to both and as a result bioware didn't quite get both right. The large openish areas have grindy content and often have static npcs. There is also an arificial feeling to many of the zones they don't feel organic enough. All that said I still enjoy the game and that is largely due to the dlc content. It started to feel like dragon age again with that content. So as long as bioware doesn't get carried away with anything and they learn from their feedback I am still pretty optimistic about DA4
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Post by phoray on Apr 22, 2017 17:55:08 GMT
I personally like the idea of DA alternating between epic and intimate stories, and that DA4 would be a more scaled down, personal story rather than a grand, world shattering one. I feel that knowing how not to escalate is important to the progression of a series. Everything always getting bigger and grander can cause a real disillusionment for me. Here's a little problem - the story is just now getting grander. With the ending of Trespasser they've opened the floodgates to the reservoir they've been filling up since 1st game. That doesn't mean that the game can't feel 'scaled down'. But them scaling down the story and going back to intimacy NOW - when they've set up Qunari at the verge of attacking everything that lies South from them and the world possibly at the risk of ending, Titans waking and ancient gods walking Thedas? ...Yeah, no scaling back on that one. It was 2-3 years before we even find out that AWOL Solas is a powerful elven mage god. And although we know his intentions, we don't know when the final culmination can finally occur. Maybe he has to wait until Thedas' moon matches up with a certain point in Ancient Arlathan before he can finally pierce and destroy the veil. He mentioned spells that would take 1000 years to finish but it didn't matter because elves back then were immortal. We don't know his mortality now that he's regained most of his powers- we can only conjecture. I guess what I'm saying is that base game could be all about Tevinter and the Qunari with only hints as to what Solas is up to. Maybe Solas' plot culmination will be a DLC, maybe he'll be DA5. Base Game could be more personal in that we're only dealing with the Tevinter War/Slave Rebellion with someone directly tied to these factions- very personal ties. Then expand from there. Save the DLCs for the World Shattering Events, like the Titans Returning and Stopping Solas.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 22, 2017 17:55:36 GMT
DAI was largely a result of bioware over correcting due to the criticisms of DA2. Bioware needs to stop over correcting all the time. Yes it does need to be scaled down but in moderation we don't want bioware over scaling down. The people, who disappointed in DA2, expected that Bioware will back to the Origins, not really expected a messed up Skyrim hybrid, I suppose. Here's the problem: I don't think even Bioware wants to go back to Origins per se. ...In fact, I find it strange that people just assume that Origins is a "go-to" title and that exploration is added to game "because Skyrim is a thing" instead of... 'hey, perhaps they always wanted more exploration and more open-world, but were held back by budget or technical limitations'? IMO? Open world is there to stay. As someone who likes open, explorable content, I obviously don't mind, although I'd certainly welcome improvements or variations on that field.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 22, 2017 18:16:08 GMT
The people, who disappointed in DA2, expected that Bioware will back to the Origins, not really expected a messed up Skyrim hybrid, I suppose. Here's the problem: I don't think even Bioware wants to go back to Origins per se. ...In fact, I find it strange that people just assume that Origins is a "go-to" title and that exploration is added to game "because Skyrim is a thing" instead of... 'hey, perhaps they always wanted more exploration and more open-world, but were held back by budget or technical limitations'? IMO? Open world is there to stay. As someone who likes open, explorable content, I obviously don't mind, although I'd certainly welcome improvements or variations on that field. I'm not against the improvements and variations, but I found Inquisition a mess. Too much gathering and boring territories (that was my problems with the MEA too, but in MEA's case the exploring had more sense, because our protagonist was actually a pathfinder... naturally, boredom is not explained with this, either), and the main line was too little compared the side quest (not really side-lines, which are the strengths of the Elder Scroll and Fallout games). So I expect from Bioware games a strong story, not an open world sandbox. The hybrid didn't work (for me, ofc). The Inquisition would have a high replay factor, but the game too long to take away my enthusiasm.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 22, 2017 18:16:27 GMT
Here's a little problem - the story is just now getting grander. With the ending of Trespasser they've opened the floodgates to the reservoir they've been filling up since 1st game. That doesn't mean that the game can't feel 'scaled down'. But them scaling down the story and going back to intimacy NOW - when they've set up Qunari at the verge of attacking everything that lies South from them and the world possibly at the risk of ending, Titans waking and ancient gods walking Thedas? ...Yeah, no scaling back on that one. It was 2-3 years before we even find out that AWOL Solas is a powerful elven mage god. And although we know his intentions, we don't know when the final culmination can finally occur. Maybe he has to wait until Thedas' moon matches up with a certain point in Ancient Arlathan before he can finally pierce and destroy the veil. He mentioned spells that would take 1000 years to finish but it didn't matter because elves back then were immortal. We don't know his mortality now that he's regained most of his powers- we can only conjecture. I guess what I'm saying is that base game could be all about Tevinter and the Qunari with only hints as to what Solas is up to. Maybe Solas' plot culmination will be a DLC, maybe he'll be DA5. Base Game could be more personal in that we're only dealing with the Tevinter War/Slave Rebellion with someone directly tied to these factions- very personal ties. Then expand from there. Save the DLCs for the World Shattering Events, like the Titans Returning and Stopping Solas. It was 2-3 years time IN GAME. In game time has little to do with pace of story for the audience. For all we know, the next title may happen 5 or 10 years later - it's irrelevant for story pace that we experience. Also: please read my response again and notice that Solas ain't the only thing I've mentioned. The pace of reveals and 'players on the chess-board' and mysteries of the past just got too fast for everything to just get halted - especially that it's quite OBVIOUS that a lot of people wait for DA4 in order to get more answers or resolutions, not a slow-down. I mean... should I remind which piece of DLC for DAI was the most anticipated one? That despite many of us enjoying Jaws of Hakkon or Descent, most people were like "it's all cool Biower, but let's go back to the main story"? It'd be similar with DA4 - even more so since it appears that DA4 will have a long development period for a game that basically ended with a cliffghanger, and hints from some insiders that the next part may yet be the 2nd part of Inquisition. edit: I also don't think that "world-shattering events" should be delegated to DLC alone. You could bring up Trespasser, but the truth is that Solas was established to be the Dread Wolf in the main game itself, and the story itself in the whole base game gears towards something greater. I mean, no matter how shattering the reveals in Trespasser were and the Inquisitor saving the South from cunning Qunari plans was big, it was not AS big as potential end of the world. I mean... Corypheus was also released by Hawke in DLC and it took pretty much the entirety of Inquisitions' main quest to stop him. In other words, Bioware has no qualms to set things up or push the ball further in DLC, but these usually set things up to be resolved in main game later - not DLCs.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 22, 2017 18:27:38 GMT
Here's the problem: I don't think even Bioware wants to go back to Origins per se. ...In fact, I find it strange that people just assume that Origins is a "go-to" title and that exploration is added to game "because Skyrim is a thing" instead of... 'hey, perhaps they always wanted more exploration and more open-world, but were held back by budget or technical limitations'? IMO? Open world is there to stay. As someone who likes open, explorable content, I obviously don't mind, although I'd certainly welcome improvements or variations on that field. I'm not against the improvements and variations, but I found Inquisition a mess. Too much gathering and boring territories (that was my problems with the MEA too, but in MEA's case the exploring had more sense, because our protagonist was actually a pathfinder... naturally, boredom is not explained with this, either), and the main line was too little compared the side quest (not really side-lines, which are the strengths of the Elder Scroll and Fallout games). So I expect from Bioware games a strong story, not an open world sandbox. The hybrid didn't work. The Inquisition would have a high replay factor, but the game too long to take away my enthusiasm. So because "Inquisition is a mess" (for you) it means that they can't improve? ...Even though both JOH was generally considered an improvement and many people consider MEA an improvement? Besides - the DA has been an open world hybrid ever since DAO (and none of their titles was ever a sandbox). The difference is that open zones were smaller and served as short reprieve before going back to yet another dungeon - which is actually a part I didn't particularly enjoy. I like dungeon crawls, but not dungeon slogs. Finding a good balance between the two would make this tiger happy.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 22, 2017 18:56:07 GMT
I'm not against the improvements and variations, but I found Inquisition a mess. Too much gathering and boring territories (that was my problems with the MEA too, but in MEA's case the exploring had more sense, because our protagonist was actually a pathfinder... naturally, boredom is not explained with this, either), and the main line was too little compared the side quest (not really side-lines, which are the strengths of the Elder Scroll and Fallout games). So I expect from Bioware games a strong story, not an open world sandbox. The hybrid didn't work. The Inquisition would have a high replay factor, but the game too long to take away my enthusiasm. So because "Inquisition is a mess" (for you) it means that they can't improve? ...Even though both JOH was considered an improvement and many people consider MEA an improvement? Besides - the DA has been an open world hybrid ever since DAO (and none of their titles was ever a sandbox). The difference is that open zones were smaller and served as short reprieve before going back to yet another dungeon - which is actually a part I didn't particularly enjoy. I like dungeon crawls, but not dungeon slogs. Finding a good balance between the two would make this tiger happy. MEA isn't an improvement (most of the planets were an endless desert –sand or stone or snow, no matter– with annoying road blocks and a bad compass), MEA's protagonist has a different goal: to find a livable home, and not to stop a danger as soon as possible (Inquisitor), but that does not matter, the Inquisitor always has time to escort some goats. Okay, if DA2 was open world, I want more such an open world game! (Okay, can be a bit longer, but just a bit.)
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Post by azarhal on Apr 22, 2017 20:55:20 GMT
Scale it down to a Dragon Age Origins size of a game. DA:I was clearly too large for Bioware to handle well. I prefer a smaller scope with higher quality content. DAO is about the same size as DAI, not in landmass, but in the time it takes you to do everything in it (see how long to beat) and DAI completion time is inflated by foot travelling time because you need to go across the zone while DAO usually dumps you right next to your objectives unless it is a "main quest dungeon".
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Apr 23, 2017 9:04:32 GMT
Scale it down to a Dragon Age Origins size of a game. DA:I was clearly too large for Bioware to handle well. I prefer a smaller scope with higher quality content. DAO is about the same size as DAI, not in landmass, but in the time it takes you to do everything in it (see how long to beat) and DAI completion time is inflated by foot travelling time because you need to go across the zone while DAO usually dumps you right next to your objectives unless it is a "main quest dungeon". From my experience, a completionist playthrough of DA:O takes about 50-60 hours, half of this or more is the main story. A completionist playthrough of DA:I takes about 200 hours, out of those 15 hours for the main story probably. I doubt the travel time itself takes that large of a chunk, not every area is the Hissing Wastes, but shard hunting is pretty time consuming. Andromeda I believe is about 80-100 hours with story content of about 15-20 hours + 10 hours of loyalty missions.
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Post by azarhal on Apr 23, 2017 11:32:44 GMT
DAO is about the same size as DAI, not in landmass, but in the time it takes you to do everything in it (see how long to beat) and DAI completion time is inflated by foot travelling time because you need to go across the zone while DAO usually dumps you right next to your objectives unless it is a "main quest dungeon". From my experience, a completionist playthrough of DA:O takes about 50-60 hours, half of this or more is the main story. A completionist playthrough of DA:I takes about 200 hours, out of those 15 hours for the main story probably. I doubt the travel time itself takes that large of a chunk, not every area is the Hissing Wastes, but shard hunting is pretty time consuming. Andromeda I believe is about 80-100 hours with story content of about 15-20 hours + 10 hours of loyalty missions. How long to beat says otherwise.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 23, 2017 16:53:34 GMT
The story would make more sense with a smaller scale (ie. not world threatening) threat, it's weird when you have a new PC doing everything when the old ones are still around somewhere. If it's a Tevinder-centric threat it makes sense that the Ferelden WC doesn't appear, etc Also, apparently the Inquisitor has a personal issue with Solas but DA4 PC is gonna deal with him ? Ok Although now that we're going to Tevinter, imagine if BioWare made a Witcher 3-like open world game (not gonna happen) but with companions. It would be cool. On the other hand if it was just like DA:O where each location is locked off into a smaller map that highlights an iconic landmark like a big city or Lake Calenhad etc. that is a very effective way to do world building too. I just hope they don't go crazy with design ideas that don't compliment each other again. DA:I had the cookie-clicker-like War Table, then an MMO game inside it, then a Mass Effect campaign, then the relationship simulator thing where you just talk to people at Skyhold and then some really half-baked customization and "building" the Inquisition and a prison-mechanic that didn't do anything. I loved each idea as it was introduced but each one also proved to be very disappointing after a few hours when you realized all that it was.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Doominike on Apr 25, 2017 22:46:24 GMT
I wouldn't mind DAO-like, Origins is still my favorite DA game.
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