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Post by Addictress on May 17, 2017 4:05:49 GMT
I would say a huge Tevinter city like Novigrad but with plenty of interior dungeons would be phenomenal. However I'd want the city and the interiors to be well-designed levels with a lot to do, and NOT really open world. Less nature, more urban.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 12:46:35 GMT
... Only they've listened to people and moved camera back to people in Mass Effect: Andromeda, and got intense backlash for it. The better the graphics, the more noticeable that conversations like those with minor quest givers is where they don't spend animation budget on. I'm not saying there's a perfect solution either way, but regardless of bad facial animations I tended to feel more invested in conversations that focused on people's faces than I did with ones where the camera stayed at a distances. That's my personal perspective and opinion on the matter; others are entitled to feel differently. +1, and I was happy they did it in Andromeda. I love it even in DA2, when scenes are uberstatic.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 14:36:18 GMT
An example of what I would have done to trim down the Inquisition to a game I would have liked to play:
Starting Three: Cassandra, Solas and Josephine Full Team: Cassandra, Cullen, Josephine, Cole, Solas, Dorian, all romanceable save for Cole like in DA2, and make them talk during the story a lot more
Wartable: GONE Haven and Skyhold: downsized and de-convoluted
Areas to keep:
1. Hinterlands – divided by three for mage vs templars war, with actual strongholds and bosses. 2. Mire – add avaar related storyline with actual bosses and characters 3. Hissing Waste and Arbor whatever as one area, add story about Tevinter magisters 4. Exalted Plains/Emprise du Lion – amalgamate in a compelling Orlais countryside and Civil War plot with a transitional spring-to-winter landscape by the sea-shore 5. More actions in non-Winter palace of the Orlais capital, the Val Royaux 6. All the actual plot instances.
Plot changes: same stuff, but skip Hawke plot, let him/her be a viscount in Kirkwall sorting out stuff there, and let us kill or spare all those bosses we are supposed to “judge” on the spot, including the Nightmare Demon. Give more bosses names, and make them talk. Add more to Samson or Calpernia storylines. Let us kill Morrigan for Flemeth or keep Morrigan out
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Post by Heimdall on May 17, 2017 17:03:34 GMT
My thinking:
Inquisition had 10 large explorable regions outside of hubs, DLC, and specific mission areas.
I think DA4 should shoot for 5, maybe 6, and instead focus on an expansive urban hub (Minrathous) and more linear story sections as they seem to be shifting towards with Trespasser. DA4 should also strive to put in more quality over quantity sidequests.
The explorable areas should have a strong central story to each one, using Jaws of Haakon or Crestwood as models for how to do that effectively. Ideally it should work like the planet quests in SWTOR, where the main quest and the area quest sort of run parallel.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 17:26:52 GMT
My thinking: Inquisition had 10 large explorable regions outside of hubs, DLC, and specific mission areas. I think DA4 should shoot for 5, maybe 6, and instead focus on an expansive urban hub (Minrathous) and more linear story sections as they seem to be shifting towards with Trespasser. DA4 should also strive to put in more quality over quantity sidequests. The explorable areas should have a strong central story to each one, using Jaws of Haakon or Crestwood as models for how to do that effectively. Ideally it should work like the planet quests in SWTOR, where the main quest and the area quest sort of run parallel. Will the DA crowd love what the ME crowd/critics hated so thoroughly? I am curious. Because that's exactly what they did with Andromeda. It also shows that it is simply not in the budget to have a city hub AND five large planets/countryside areas with strong planetary stories IF the main story is strong and expensive and companions are alive and reactive to the world and the plot. Unless they move offices to, I dunno, Calcutta? Chisenau?
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Post by Heimdall on May 17, 2017 18:07:28 GMT
My thinking: Inquisition had 10 large explorable regions outside of hubs, DLC, and specific mission areas. I think DA4 should shoot for 5, maybe 6, and instead focus on an expansive urban hub (Minrathous) and more linear story sections as they seem to be shifting towards with Trespasser. DA4 should also strive to put in more quality over quantity sidequests. The explorable areas should have a strong central story to each one, using Jaws of Haakon or Crestwood as models for how to do that effectively. Ideally it should work like the planet quests in SWTOR, where the main quest and the area quest sort of run parallel. Will the DA crowd love what the ME crowd/critics hated so thoroughly? I am curious. Because that's exactly what they did with Andromeda. It also shows that it is simply not in the budget to have a city hub AND five large planets/countryside areas with strong planetary stories IF the main story is strong and expensive and companions are alive and reactive to the world and the plot. Unless they move offices to, I dunno, Calcutta? Chisenau? Not really. Andromeda's "city hubs" were comparable to Val Royeux in DAI. What they need to do is make such a hub one of the explorable quest areas rather than just a narrow bazaar. Minrathous is perfect for this, with all the lore of the city, the Grand Proving Arena, the Magisterium, the Circle of Magi. There's a lot of material to mine and I don't accept that they couldn't build such a thing if they had devoted fewer resources to those 10 wilderness areas. What I'm envisioning for a city hub would be a bit like Kirkwall from DA2, a city split into several districts filled with quests and content, though better executed. There's little reason to believe the problem here is budget.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 18:41:24 GMT
Will the DA crowd love what the ME crowd/critics hated so thoroughly? I am curious. Because that's exactly what they did with Andromeda. It also shows that it is simply not in the budget to have a city hub AND five large planets/countryside areas with strong planetary stories IF the main story is strong and expensive and companions are alive and reactive to the world and the plot. Unless they move offices to, I dunno, Calcutta? Chisenau? Not really. Andromeda's "city hubs" were comparable to Val Royeux in DAI. What they need to do is make such a hub one of the explorable quest areas rather than just a narrow bazaar. Minrathous is perfect for this, with all the lore of the city, the Grand Proving Arena, the Magisterium, the Circle of Magi. There's a lot of material to mine and I don't accept that they couldn't build such a thing if they had devoted fewer resources to those 10 wilderness areas. What I'm envisioning for a city hub would be a bit like Kirkwall from DA2, a city split into several districts filled with quests and content, though better executed. There's little reason to believe the problem here is budget. Nexus is the city hub I meant, and they clearly did not have resources to build it into a mighty station like Citadel/omega was in ME2 despite multiple districts; the hydroponics for one was the section that would totally been my favorite area to go for a few quests if it were developed into something that actually can feed a few thoysand people. The ruined Remnant city was an area that was more interesting than more wilderness, but it did not turn into Andromeda's Underdark, which it could have if they had the budget. why don't you think it's the budget? The lack of areas in DA2 is clearly the budget. Andromeda's quests are very similar in structure to DA2, and show the same saving of resources forcing questlines to hop-hop-hop.
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Post by Heimdall on May 17, 2017 18:53:58 GMT
Not really. Andromeda's "city hubs" were comparable to Val Royeux in DAI. What they need to do is make such a hub one of the explorable quest areas rather than just a narrow bazaar. Minrathous is perfect for this, with all the lore of the city, the Grand Proving Arena, the Magisterium, the Circle of Magi. There's a lot of material to mine and I don't accept that they couldn't build such a thing if they had devoted fewer resources to those 10 wilderness areas. What I'm envisioning for a city hub would be a bit like Kirkwall from DA2, a city split into several districts filled with quests and content, though better executed. There's little reason to believe the problem here is budget. Nexus is the city hub I meant, and they clearly did not have resources to build it into a mighty station like Citadel/omega was in ME2 despite multiple districts; the hydroponics for one was the section that would totally been my favorite area to go for a few quests if it were developed into something that actually can feed a few thoysand people. The ruined Remnant city was an area that was more interesting than more wilderness, but it did not turn into Andromeda's Underdark, which it could have if they had the budget. why don't you think it's the budget? The lack of areas in DA2 is clearly the budget. Andromeda's quests are very similar in structure to DA2, and show the same saving of resources forcing questlines to hop-hop-hop. Lack of competent design and quality writing are to blame for those things more than budget. They built the places, mostly, they just failed to do anything interesting with them, instead filling them with a handful of mostly uninteresting quests and burning resources on large set piece worlds that similarly lacked in quality writing and content. A few had a decent world story, but they were all clogged with busywork content. DA2 suffered because it was an extremely rushed game whose entire development cycle totaled less than two years. Yet still Kirkwall was more interesting than the Nexus even with its repeated environments. An urban setting can be a fun questing area as long as they don't turn it into a mall. Omega and the Citadel benefited from fun and well presented quests and characters set there. The Nexus largely lacks those. Design choices are the problem here, not budget.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2017 18:57:58 GMT
Nexus is the city hub I meant, and they clearly did not have resources to build it into a mighty station like Citadel/omega was in ME2 despite multiple districts; the hydroponics for one was the section that would totally been my favorite area to go for a few quests if it were developed into something that actually can feed a few thoysand people. The ruined Remnant city was an area that was more interesting than more wilderness, but it did not turn into Andromeda's Underdark, which it could have if they had the budget. why don't you think it's the budget? The lack of areas in DA2 is clearly the budget. Andromeda's quests are very similar in structure to DA2, and show the same saving of resources forcing questlines to hop-hop-hop. Lack of competent design and quality writing are to blame for those things more than budget. They built the places, mostly, they just failed to do anything interesting with them, instead filling them with a handful of mostly uninteresting quests and burning resources on large set piece worlds that similarly lacked in quality writing and content. A few had a decent world story, but they were all clogged with busywork content. DA2 suffered because it was an extremely rushed game whose entire development cycle totaled less than two years. Yet still Kirkwall was more interesting than the Nexus even with its repeated environments. An urban setting can be a fun questing area as long as they don't turn it into a mall. Omega and the Citadel benefited from fun and well presented quests and characters set there. The Nexus largely lacks those. Design choices are the problem here, not budget. What I saw included was interesting, if at times, badly organized and not anchored better within the larger story, so I would go with budget. Edit: but, I absolutely would want DA4 to be structured like Andromeda. Absolutely.
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Post by B. Hieronymus Da on May 25, 2017 8:12:36 GMT
I'm of the opinion, like most, that DA2 was too narrow a game. The possibilities were too thin but despite of it I probably may even like it the most as a story (Just wish the third act was much better) even over DA:O and DA:I and I loved the banter and characters. That said, DA:I was very nice in how big and vast it was but at a point it struck me that it felt like it was too big for its own good. I don't think BioWare has really nailed the companion aspect being part of an "exploration-driven" game yet. There's banter sure, and I like being with someone when I explore but without knowing what it is, I just kept thinking the companions felt like they were just there in DA:I. Furthermore there's the notorious fetch quests which hopefully Andromeda proves that a game this size can be made without (the overwhelming amount at least). DA2 aside BioWare has a tendency to blow the scope bigger and bigger in the games they make, but I can't help but think maybe it's about time they dial back down a little bit. Not to DA2 levels but just like a sweetspot where there's more concentrated content like a sprawling city area. Maybe like Kirkwall but without a map seperating the areas and then a surrounding 4-5 areas that are like the ones in DA:I but more akin to the Oasis level in size so the content isn't spread too thin. I haven't brushed up on my DA4 infos so all I know is that we're going to Tevinter... or something. I have a feeling that's plenty of opportunity for BioWare to create a lot of rumored lore from scratch as they have to finally present it in full detail. I think DA4 has plenty of opportunity to be like DA:I but slightly more condensed and rid of some of the litter of that game whilist providing a better narrative focus both for the plot, the subplots and how companions tie in. At least, that's my hopes for it. If it were up to you, would you make DA4 bigger or smaller than DA:I? I mostly think I agree with that. I don't think the merging of the Bethesda sandbox and the Bioware storydriven has turned out so well. Not for DA:I and not for FO4. And particularly not when they just derange into what's not really much more than just yet another FPS with multiplayer. I used to hate DA2. Mostly because of what it did to the DA franchise. I still regard DA2 as the moment when a fantastic game franchise, which could have made a fortune for EA, went down the drain. - Idiots!In retrospect, it's much easier to look upon DA2 with fondness. It doesn't mean I like the style changes or the narrow linearity. But it has aged reasonably. While DA2 combat seemed disgusting and disgustingly consolish-retarded and flashy at the time, it's a miracle of sophistication and taste - and even fun - compared to the appalling filler-drivel drudgery of DA:I combat. But yeah, I think DA2 is too narrow, too railroaded. And I think DA:I, while having some qualities, is not really a kind of game that I will ever ask for. I think they should take a really hard look at what they did in DA:O. And not doing the desperate everything-and-the-kitchen-sink approach of DA:I should save them some time and money, as well as resulting in a more cohesive and meaningful game experience. Also, while that is not the subject of this thread, I think they have failed monumentally with evolving combat. It's less than garbage. Poop. And I think I can see it has turned out that way much because the demand of integration with multiplayer. Also, I personally don't think it should be an action game. But that's crazy talk, of course.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 26, 2017 14:17:55 GMT
All this goes to show that DA:I is just a bad game and we all have some kind of stockholm syndrome for it... AND DA2 considering how bad we initially thought that game was.
Or well, some. I never thought DA2 was bad, but it was obviously a step backwards for the series moreso than ME2 because while ME2 streamlined ME1 and tightened up mechanics, it still had a new take on "openness" in the form of having 4-5 missions that were levels which you could tackle in any order which then led to a main beat, then another array of main missions and even some being skippable and then 3 different, tightened up hubs areas compared to the bloated planets of ME1 etc. DA2 on the other hand did not upgrade DA:O in any obvious ways. It had some hidden systems for companion progression and interactive dialogue that you wouldn't notice unless you played the game multiple times and the story did not quite work at large even if the potential was obvious and act 2 was brilliant.
There's a lot of BioWare fans that really could stand to get away from BioWare games for a time and smell the roses of other good games.
There's Nier Automata and Spec Ops the Line, all of which have some similar features to a BioWare game like branching narrative paths, heavy story focus and Automata's side-missions are actually all so thematically consistent to the main story that I felt like I wanted to see most of them through to the end because the first 3 I did taught me that the reward and revelations for going through each of them actually contributed to the larger narrative, even if it was done similarly to DA:I in that it's mostly just a passive 3rd person camera with dialogue subtitles and characters standing still. It just goes to show me that BioWare have bigger problems at large with being makers of these types of games they make now; they lack finesse in both focus of writing and focus in game design. They're not even that good as developers by and large and whatever does it mean at this point to have loads of interactive dialogue and companions to talk to, if none of it is actually interesting? At best I know the formula of a BioWare game now and it'll be done like it usually has been. You get a vague main plot goal that leaves you scrambling for a while until you get a sense of where the story is really going and meanwhile you get a ship or a camp with companions, you hear each one tell you their life-story, then go to bed with one of them, and hear their meandering conversations with each other as you explore areas and you hear their commentary in missions. At this point though, the larger framework of BioWare plot- structure, focus, writing etc. is so skeletal you just can't even appreciate how endearingly cross PeeBee is or how adorkable Vetra is when they have no substantial context to be with you in.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 14:28:59 GMT
All this goes to show that DA:I is just a bad game and we all have some kind of stockholm syndrome for it... AND DA2 considering how bad we initially thought that game was. Or well, some. I never thought DA2 was bad, but it was obviously a step backwards for the series moreso than ME2 because while ME2 streamlined ME1 and tightened up mechanics, it still had a new take on "openness" in the form of having 4-5 missions that were levels which you could tackle in any order which then led to a main beat, then another array of main missions and even some being skippable and then 3 different, tightened up hubs areas compared to the bloated planets of ME1 etc. DA2 on the other hand did not upgrade DA:O in any obvious ways. It had some hidden systems for companion progression and interactive dialogue that you wouldn't notice unless you played the game multiple times and the story did not quite work at large even if the potential was obvious and act 2 was brilliant. I thought the entirety of DA2 was brilliant, and it only lacked the area art and racial selection for the protagonist to make it the best game of its period for me. It's structures for gameplay, battles, comp management, everything, was uber-convenient & streamlined. Its plot made sense and was interesting without adding another pending End of the World that seem to hit Thedas with an amazing frequency of every decade or so. The companions were awesome and the interactions were just right; and literally, save for the graphics falling short in both quality and quantity, and them cutting Sebastian into a DLC (wtf?) the game's brilliant.
Along with JE, DA2 is the second game I will buy AGAIN if it is remade with decent modern graphics.
Inquisition, yes, that one is a bad game in my books, and I don't even get the Stockholm Syndrome to show for finishing it.
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Post by simit on May 26, 2017 14:55:41 GMT
If there going the same formula as DA:I they could cut atleast 2 zones an spent the resources on aesthetic improvement an more skill trees for every class, i found the "special" specs, particularly for mage an warrior to be boring, really missed my spirit healer n berzerker, on mage in DA:I now adays i just play the base trees.
I really enjoy DA:I but likwe any game there always rom for improvement, hope they make DA2 backwards compatible really miss it since pc fried
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on May 26, 2017 15:18:28 GMT
Wait, "Racial selection for the protagonist was lacking"? Hawke really couldn't be a ginner?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 15:37:51 GMT
Wait, "Racial selection for the protagonist was lacking"? Hawke really couldn't be a ginner? I meant that Hawke can only be played as a Human.
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