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Post by Dobby on Mar 14, 2017 1:08:08 GMT
Wait. You can have a cat as a pet as well?! How did I miss this in the game! Granted I haven't finished it so maybe it happens later on in the game It's DLC, sadly. There's a settlement that has a named tabby wandering around the porch, but if you're prepared to go through a paywall, then you too can have a virtual cat that you don't get to name or pet roam your settlements. You just have to go through the trouble of collecting softshell mirelurk meat (not just regular mirelurk meat--softshell mirelurk meat) first. ...I totally did it at every single one. Oh I see. I haven't got any of the DLC. This is a cute addition though and I'd totally do the same for a kitty.
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Post by GordianKnot on Mar 14, 2017 1:09:48 GMT
I'm always surprised people talk about Fallout 4 having a lot of bugs. I never had any serious issues and I played that game way more then any one should... I wish the one thing they would take from Fallout 4 would be the all bi romance options. I know not everyone is a fan, but honestly I'm tired of getting the lesser options for "realistic" characters that "feel right". IMO, a romance "making sense" in an RPG would have more to do with the personality/attitude of the player character than their gender. For example, since Peebee is supposedly "mischievous," she wouldn't be into a Ryder who's basically a goody-two-shoes type, regardless of Ryder's gender. From what we know about Liam, on the other hand, might like this particular Ryder persona, since he seems to be the "paragon" archetype in this game (I know they got rid of the Paragon/Renegade system, but he seems like a person who always wants to do the "honorable/right" thing). I liked settlement building in FO4, and it sounds like there will be something similar to that in ME:A, so that's intriguing. I didn't like it when I built about 10-15 turrets for Finch Farm and a couple days later I get the "Help defend Finch Farm" radiant objective. The first few hours of FO4 -- even on Normal difficulty -- were freaking difficult. But the player becomes OP pretty quickly and the next thing I know I'm running around with 300 stimpaks and 5000 .45 rounds and a full suit of Polymer Combat Armor. Mass Effect 1 was the same -- I did like how in 2 and 3 the combat difficulty became more consistent (even though ME3 "Insanity" was laughably easy).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 2:03:31 GMT
I'm always surprised people talk about Fallout 4 having a lot of bugs. I never had any serious issues and I played that game way more then any one should... I wish the one thing they would take from Fallout 4 would be the all bi romance options. I know not everyone is a fan, but honestly I'm tired of getting the lesser options for "realistic" characters that "feel right". IMO, a romance "making sense" in an RPG would have more to do with the personality/attitude of the player character than their gender. For example, since Peebee is supposedly "mischievous," she wouldn't be into a Ryder who's basically a goody-two-shoes type, regardless of Ryder's gender. From what we know about Liam, on the other hand, might like this particular Ryder persona, since he seems to be the "paragon" archetype in this game (I know they got rid of the Paragon/Renegade system, but he seems like a person who always wants to do the "honorable/right" thing). I liked settlement building in FO4, and it sounds like there will be something similar to that in ME:A, so that's intriguing. I didn't like it when I built about 10-15 turrets for Finch Farm and a couple days later I get the "Help defend Finch Farm" radiant objective. The first few hours of FO4 -- even on Normal difficulty -- were freaking difficult. But the player becomes OP pretty quickly and the next thing I know I'm running around with 300 stimpaks and 5000 .45 rounds and a full suit of Polymer Combat Armor. Mass Effect 1 was the same -- I did like how in 2 and 3 the combat difficulty became more consistent (even though ME3 "Insanity" was laughably easy). The whole settlements being attacked notifications and random occurrences are the reason why I rarely ever messed with that part of the game at all. I found it to be a huge head ache, so I only got enough settlements to trigger the main quests for the minutemen and then just ignored them all together afterwards. I'm a terrible slum lord in that game in other words.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Mar 14, 2017 2:58:52 GMT
I'm always surprised people talk about Fallout 4 having a lot of bugs. I never had any serious issues and I played that game way more then any one should... I wish the one thing they would take from Fallout 4 would be the all bi romance options. I know not everyone is a fan, but honestly I'm tired of getting the lesser options for "realistic" characters that "feel right". IMO, a romance "making sense" in an RPG would have more to do with the personality/attitude of the player character than their gender. For example, since Peebee is supposedly "mischievous," she wouldn't be into a Ryder who's basically a goody-two-shoes type, regardless of Ryder's gender. From what we know about Liam, on the other hand, might like this particular Ryder persona, since he seems to be the "paragon" archetype in this game (I know they got rid of the Paragon/Renegade system, but he seems like a person who always wants to do the "honorable/right" thing). I liked settlement building in FO4, and it sounds like there will be something similar to that in ME:A, so that's intriguing. I didn't like it when I built about 10-15 turrets for Finch Farm and a couple days later I get the "Help defend Finch Farm" radiant objective. The first few hours of FO4 -- even on Normal difficulty -- were freaking difficult. But the player becomes OP pretty quickly and the next thing I know I'm running around with 300 stimpaks and 5000 .45 rounds and a full suit of Polymer Combat Armor. Mass Effect 1 was the same -- I did like how in 2 and 3 the combat difficulty became more consistent (even though ME3 "Insanity" was laughably easy). I would personally really prefer it if they sometimes made it it so that characters would be okay with romancing a protagonist who's different from them. There have to be limits, of course. I don't mean to say that all the PCs should be cool with romancing cannibal serial killers or anything, but my ideal case scenario would be where the differences are recognized and somewhat accepted by the LI. It's fun to do opposites attract. The Batman/Catwoman duality approach. I think DA2 was onto something with the rivalmance--It was flawed but intriguing.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 14, 2017 4:19:42 GMT
That never really bothered me given that synths themselves don't seem to care about proliferating their "species" for lack of a better word. It's probably for the best really, synths still get their freedom and humans don't have to fear a possible synth takeover. Exactly, the Synths do benefit from the destruction of the Institute, even if it means losing the primary means for their production. The Institute are propagating an entire slave race into being, while denying them as people, despite how many times they show obvious self-awareness and the desire for freedom. We even can overhear some Institute Synths who clearly playing dumb and hiding their sapience from the scientists, for fear that they'll be destroyed or have their memory wiped. Liberating the Synths at the cost of them being possibly the last generation is the most moral choice to make, because it would be far more cruel to force them to continue living as slaves and under intolerable living conditions by the Institute. That's only half of it. It's genocide of the human side as well, either through mass murder or through forced expulsion. How is it genocide if you promise to spare the scientists and allow them to evacuate prior to blowing up the facility? Maybe they'll struggle in the Wasteland, maybe they'll die or maybe they'll thrive? At least sparing them gives them a fighting chance, no better than anyone else who lives there one has crawled out of a Vault. Consider that the destruction of the Institute comes at the hands of someone who managed to succeed and adapt to the Wasteland, despite being frozen and two hundred years out of time, with no clue as to the conditions of the post-War world. The Institute scientists have a major advantage in that regard, because they have far more knowledge of the Commonwealth than the Sole Survivor or other Vault Dwellers had to work with. The only problem they might have is that they've never had to engage in combat themselves, since they rely on their Synths as their muscle. They'll have to adapt in order to survive and learn how to defend themselves. Still, for immoral scientists who wanted to play God, it does seem a fitting punishment that they now to get to be their own test subjects in a study of Social Darwinism in action.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 14, 2017 4:36:26 GMT
I'm always surprised people talk about Fallout 4 having a lot of bugs. I never had any serious issues and I played that game way more then any one should... I wish the one thing they would take from Fallout 4 would be the all bi romance options. I know not everyone is a fan, but honestly I'm tired of getting the lesser options for "realistic" characters that "feel right". Agreed. Kaidan "feels realistic" to me. I don't imagine myself ever dating someone like Dorian (though I suppose anything is possible). So the question is... to whom is it meant to me realistic? The straight dudes who can't handle their macho squadmates banging other dudes? Since they're not doing that anyway, who cares what they think? (Note: I know not all straight guys care one way or the other. I was referencing those who bitched and moaned about bisexual Kaidan.)
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Post by xilizhra on Mar 14, 2017 5:37:12 GMT
That's only half of it. It's genocide of the human side as well, either through mass murder or through forced expulsion. How is it genocide if you promise to spare the scientists and allow them to evacuate prior to blowing up the facility? Maybe they'll struggle in the Wasteland, maybe they'll die or maybe they'll thrive? At least sparing them gives them a fighting chance, no better than anyone else who lives there one has crawled out of a Vault. Consider that the destruction of the Institute comes at the hands of someone who managed to succeed and adapt to the Wasteland, despite being frozen and two hundred years out of time, with no clue as to the conditions of the post-War world. The Institute scientists have a major advantage in that regard, because they have far more knowledge of the Commonwealth than the Sole Survivor or other Vault Dwellers had to work with. The only problem they might have is that they've never had to engage in combat themselves, since they rely on their Synths as their muscle. They'll have to adapt in order to survive and learn how to defend themselves. Still, for immoral scientists who wanted to play God, it does seem a fitting punishment that they now to get to be their own test subjects in a study of Social Darwinism in action. Because they're an entirely separate culture and you inflict conditions on them roughly akin to the current Syrian refugees, except they're also fleeing to a hellish wasteland and have no prospects of ever returning home. Which falls under the category of genocide according to the law. There's also a great many people of the Institute who didn't fall under the "immoral scientist" umbrella, including children (before you bring up any with the Brotherhood of Steel, that's the Brotherhood's own fault for bringing them aboard a warship) and those like Patriot and others who are sympathetic towards synths. When you consider that the Brotherhood is an entirely military organization and the Railroad is all-volunteer, whereas the Institute has many civilians whose only crime was being born there... the choice seems clear, especially since one has every reason to believe that one can change the synth policy as Director.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 5:44:39 GMT
I'm always surprised people talk about Fallout 4 having a lot of bugs. I never had any serious issues and I played that game way more then any one should... I wish the one thing they would take from Fallout 4 would be the all bi romance options. I know not everyone is a fan, but honestly I'm tired of getting the lesser options for "realistic" characters that "feel right". Agreed. Kaidan "feels realistic" to me. I don't imagine myself ever dating someone like Dorian (though I suppose anything is possible). So the question is... to whom is it meant to me realistic? The straight dudes who can't handle their macho squadmates banging other dudes? Since they're not doing that anyway, who cares what they think? (Note: I know not all straight guys care one way or the other. I was referencing those who bitched and moaned about bisexual Kaidan.) I so agree! Kaidan is my favorite Mass Effect romance by far, and I really don't care if it didn't make sense to a small faction of people. I just hope someday there's a remake of the trilogy that includes bi Kaidan from the start. Probably not, but one can dream!
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Post by Sifr on Mar 14, 2017 6:23:57 GMT
Because they're an entirely separate culture and you inflict conditions on them roughly akin to the current Syrian refugees, except they're also fleeing to a hellish wasteland and have no prospects of ever returning home. Which falls under the category of genocide according to the law. There's also a great many people of the Institute who didn't fall under the "immoral scientist" umbrella, including children (before you bring up any with the Brotherhood of Steel, that's the Brotherhood's own fault for bringing them aboard a warship) and those like Patriot and others who are sympathetic towards synths. When you consider that the Brotherhood is an entirely military organization and the Railroad is all-volunteer, whereas the Institute has many civilians whose only crime was being born there... the choice seems clear, especially since one has every reason to believe that one can change the synth policy as Director. The Commonwealth wouldn't be nearly as hellish of a wasteland if the Institute hadn't chosen to isolate themselves, selfishly horde their technology and conduct experimentation of the Commonwealth inhabitants for over two centuries. They could easily have tried to help the denizens of the Commonwealth, rather than give up after their first attempt failed and decide to completely right off them as not being worth saving. Another thing to consider is that based on the presence of Supermutants in their labs, Vault 87 being over 400 miles away in Washington DC and no other sources of FEV nearby that we're told about, it's very likely the Institute was responsible for the creation of the majority of Supermutants in the Commonwealth. We even see with Dr Virgil that they're experimenting on ways to turn humans into Supermutants and back again, so it's clearly something they have experience working on. Just because their bicentennial separation has meant the Institute has developed it's own unique "culture" does not excuse them from playing God and abusing the Synth race they created. No more than saying that in New Vegas, it would be wrong to wipe out the Legion because they have likewise developed their own culture based on slavery and exploitation. The Institute has caused the majority of the problems in the Commonwealth, has been actively working to manipulate and experiment on it's denizens for it's own ends, which has impeded the progress and development of the region. Thus the clear choice is to remove it from the equation and grant both the Synths and Commonwealth citizen control over their own destiny, which the Institute would otherwise deny them. If the members of the Institute aren't being wiped out, that's not genocide. Being forced into the wasteland and deprived of the resources and protection they've since been accustomed will change their culture and society, certainly, but it's better than it being wiped out. Furthermore being forced to spend some time in the trenches and see what the Commonwealth is like firsthand, might teach the former Institute scientists some perspective and much-needed empathy for other people. Basic human qualities they've lost, while they've been content to play in their own little bubble. Case and point, the reveal that Father woke the Sole Survivor up to test their parental instincts and see how they'd adapt to the Commonwealth. He even turned their first meeting with what they thought was Shaun into an experiment, to test a child synth and the Sole Survivor's reaction. That shows a disconnect with basic humanity that's extremely disturbing and something we see in many members of the Institute staff. Normal people's lives and feelings are a game to them, to be poked, prodded and measured.
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Post by GordianKnot on Mar 14, 2017 6:47:27 GMT
IMO, a romance "making sense" in an RPG would have more to do with the personality/attitude of the player character than their gender. For example, since Peebee is supposedly "mischievous," she wouldn't be into a Ryder who's basically a goody-two-shoes type, regardless of Ryder's gender. From what we know about Liam, on the other hand, might like this particular Ryder persona, since he seems to be the "paragon" archetype in this game (I know they got rid of the Paragon/Renegade system, but he seems like a person who always wants to do the "honorable/right" thing). I liked settlement building in FO4, and it sounds like there will be something similar to that in ME:A, so that's intriguing. I didn't like it when I built about 10-15 turrets for Finch Farm and a couple days later I get the "Help defend Finch Farm" radiant objective. The first few hours of FO4 -- even on Normal difficulty -- were freaking difficult. But the player becomes OP pretty quickly and the next thing I know I'm running around with 300 stimpaks and 5000 .45 rounds and a full suit of Polymer Combat Armor. Mass Effect 1 was the same -- I did like how in 2 and 3 the combat difficulty became more consistent (even though ME3 "Insanity" was laughably easy). I would personally really prefer it if they sometimes made it it so that characters would be okay with romancing a protagonist who's different from them. There have to be limits, of course. I don't mean to say that all the PCs should be cool with romancing cannibal serial killers or anything, but my ideal case scenario would be where the differences are recognized and somewhat accepted by the LI. It's fun to do opposites attract. The Batman/Catwoman duality approach. I think DA2 was onto something with the rivalmance--It was flawed but intriguing. Good point. I still think a system of squadmate level of attraction based on the player character's actions could be implemented, and would benefit everyone. Using a couple characters from the original ME trilogy as examples (because frankly we don't know enough about the characters in Andromeda to really make TOO MANY assumptions): (1) Jack has a renegade type personality, but she could be attracted to a ParagonShepard, because Shepard helps her work through her shit. However, if Shepard says/does too many blatantly pro-Cerberus things, Jack will eventually be locked out of a romance. She's still part of the squad and is still loyal to what they're trying to accomplish, but has no romantic attraction to Shepard. (2) Tali is a fairly "Paragon" character, but could be attracted to a RenegadeShep as long as Shepard doesn't do too many pro-Cerberus, pro-Geth things. Siding with Legion in their post-loyalty-mission fight would lock Shep out of a romance (even if the player got their Renegade score up high enough to regain Tali's loyalty later). (3) Garrus would like a ParagonShepard as long as Shepard doesn't hold "doing the right thing" in such a high regard to the point where it got in the way of accomplishing the task at hand. I can't think of any in-game examples off the top of my head but I'm sure if there isn't already some it would be easy to implement a few. TL;DR -- it wouldn't be hard to implement a system of "checks" based on major plot decisions that are slightly more complex than dialogue responses for each squadmate, especially considering that we have six squaddies, five of whom are presumed romance-able at all.
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Post by Panda on Mar 14, 2017 8:38:15 GMT
Close-ups to characters face when you are talking to them aka cinematic dialogues. DAI lacked these most of the time and it was annoying as fuck, just rolling around the camera, trying to get even somewhat close that you could see expression. I really hope ME:A hasn't adapted DAI with this.
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Post by xilizhra on Mar 14, 2017 13:10:49 GMT
Because they're an entirely separate culture and you inflict conditions on them roughly akin to the current Syrian refugees, except they're also fleeing to a hellish wasteland and have no prospects of ever returning home. Which falls under the category of genocide according to the law. There's also a great many people of the Institute who didn't fall under the "immoral scientist" umbrella, including children (before you bring up any with the Brotherhood of Steel, that's the Brotherhood's own fault for bringing them aboard a warship) and those like Patriot and others who are sympathetic towards synths. When you consider that the Brotherhood is an entirely military organization and the Railroad is all-volunteer, whereas the Institute has many civilians whose only crime was being born there... the choice seems clear, especially since one has every reason to believe that one can change the synth policy as Director. The Commonwealth wouldn't be nearly as hellish of a wasteland if the Institute hadn't chosen to isolate themselves, selfishly horde their technology and conduct experimentation of the Commonwealth inhabitants for over two centuries. They could easily have tried to help the denizens of the Commonwealth, rather than give up after their first attempt failed and decide to completely right off them as not being worth saving. So you'd condemn the entire population of the Institute for the actions of the Directorate? This seems to be a trend. An even more egregious example; while the synth slavery thing is at least public knowledge, the FEV experiments were extremely secret, to the point that not even the full Directorate knew about them. It doesn't, but A. genocide isn't excusable no matter what, B. the Institute has not been slaveholding for the vast majority of its existence (I'd say around 40 years, roughly), and C. it's irrelevant because you can't wipe out the Legion in FNV anyway, only throw off their military (the closest thing would be nuking Dry Wells, something I also don't do). Clear only if you completely deny the humanity of the Institute's people. I would also strongly disagree that the Institute is responsible for "most" of the Commonwealth's problems; they didn't destroy the Minutemen, they did extremely little for the first hundred years (and several after) that the Commonwealth stewed in its own poison and refused to develop at all, and in the modern day, the worst they've done recently is destroy one town, something that raiders do quite a bit. Also, the Institute can do a lot more good for the Commonwealth under better leadership, which the PC can provide. That's not how the definition or the law work. In any case, my Sole Survivor still loves Shaun and won't turn on him. I wish she had more options for criticizing his policies, certainly, but destroying his life's work isn't really an option when an option does exist to make the best of it instead.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Mar 14, 2017 14:43:19 GMT
Timothy, who ever he was in that Institute uniform, wandered around without too much trouble. Sometimes I think the Commonwealth isn't quite as much of a death trap for NPCs.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 14, 2017 17:32:59 GMT
So you'd condemn the entire population of the Institute for the actions of the Directorate? This seems to be a trend. Since the Directorate are the ones who have dictated the direction of the Institute for over 200 years... yeah, pretty much? If anyone is responsible for the destruction of the Institute, it is the men and women in charge who's actions for decades have made them hated by the rest of the Commonwealth. You reap what you sow, they made themselves an enemy of everyone around them. Which is a pithy excuse since the experiments did take place and were clearly sanctioned by the Institute leadership. Except it's not genocide because the Institute scientists can survive the fall of the facility. Even though the Institute is gone and they no longer have access to it's advanced technology, the people remain and can rebuild if that's what they wish. As we saw from Nick and DiMA, there were prototype Gen 2's that were made self-aware, who are at least a century old. This shows that their willingess to experiment on machines capable of independent thought is not just exclusive to the Gen 3's. Nor does it excuse that they've been enslaving them for decades while denying that they are even alive. As for the Legion, you are essentially wiping them out if you kill Caesar (or even if you don't). FNV made it very clear that the Legion was only held together by the cult of personality he built around him and he was slowly dying from a tumour. Numerous people in the game suspect that when he eventually dies, the Legion will fracture as his lieutenants vie for power and control. If the Legion way of life would end with the death of Caesar, would you suggest that it's more "moral" to save Caesar and thus allow the Legion to continue for a little while longer, because it would be "genocide" to allow them to die out? Even knowing that doing so, would mean countless more people would be crucified, murdered and enslaved? The Institute's people themselves deny their own humanity by their cruel actions towards the Synths and people of the Commonwealth. These are people who deny their own creations are alive, have wiped out entire towns and regularly have people murdered and replaced with dopplegangers. With access to technology and Pre-War knowledge, the Institute could have easily offered aid to help the Commonwealth recover following the Great War, allowing the region to develop and prosper. We saw Mr House was capable of transforming Vegas from a ruined city with warring tribes, to a prosperous region and major player in the Mojave in just 7 years. House did have Securitrons to rely upon to enforce his rule, but the Institute have demonstrated they have been capable of building a disposable army of early model Synths for at least a century. As for the Sole Survivor reforming the Institute, that only assumes that the Directorate wouldn't override any of their decisions, nor try to replace them entirely if they didn't like their new direction. It's clear in the game that the Directorate didn't want the Sole Survivor involved with Institute affairs and it's only Father who insists they be part of things, so why would support the Sole Survivor as his replacement? Only if you try to force the definition of genocide onto this, which it's not. The problem with trying to reform the Institute is that it's not guaranteed to work. Who's to say that these changes will be implemented or kept by the next Director? The Institute had shown itself to be fundamentally corrupt, something that happened long before Shaun was ever a part of it. Sometimes when a tree has gone rotten, it's better to cut it down and plant a new one in it's place. Organisations needing to be reformed after they've become corrupted was a repeated theme in DAI and is just as true in the Fallout universe. The Institute started out wanting to champion the pursuit of science and technology, but now play God with the Commonwealth. The Brotherhood of Steel started out wanting to prevent dangerous technology from running amok, but now horde it and have become blinded by their own zealotry. The Enclave wanted to preserve the Pre-War way of life, but wish to ethnically cleanse anyone they consider impure. By allowing the Institute scientists to evacuate before the facility is destroyed, that allows them the chance to start again. The loss of the Institute means they cannot lord over the Synths or the people of the Commonwealth, putting them on even footing with their former victims. Without advanced technology, they can recognise the ingenuity and value of the Commonwealth denizens they formerly wrote off, who've managed to make do with only scavenged materials at their disposal. The destruction of the Institute facility does not necessarily mean the death of all it's members, nor that it will cease to entirely exist. As the world of Fallout itself shows, even the end of the world doesn't always mean the end of the world. Life continues on, it's just different from how it used to be.
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Post by xilizhra on Mar 14, 2017 17:54:23 GMT
So you'd condemn the entire population of the Institute for the actions of the Directorate? This seems to be a trend. Since the Directorate are the ones who have dictated the direction of the Institute for over 200 years... yeah, pretty much? If anyone is responsible for the destruction of the Institute, it is the men and women in charge who's actions for decades have made them hated by the rest of the Commonwealth. You reap what you sow, they made themselves an enemy of everyone around them. Not really; it's entirely possible to have the Minutemen and the Institute get along. Some of it. Would you prefer "ethnic cleansing," then? And it is ethnic; the people of the Institute, due to having far less exposure to radiation over the course of two centuries, are biologically divergent enough from surfacers that I'd consider them separate. Well, for one thing, since I don't actually kill Caesar, this implosion would be self-destruction and wouldn't be by my hand. Secondly, Caesar's Legion is an army and not a civilization. Thirdly, their victory would mean the destruction of New Vegas and all of the Mojave tribes, so it'd be a wash even if you were right. Define "deny their own humanity." Garnering the Directorate's support is the whole point of the Institute questline. Sometimes. Not this time. I have access to life-extension technology (if Kellogg can get it, I can), so I can be absolutely sure that my changes can stick... if that's actually necessary, which truth be told, I doubt. As a backup, there's a perk that lets you become a ghoul.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Mar 14, 2017 18:48:36 GMT
Not really; it's entirely possible to have the Minutemen and the Institute get along. Only because the Sole Survivor is the only one capable of mediation between the two factions. Otherwise the Minutemen have no reason to trust the Institute and in one particular stand-off encounter, would have been perfectly happy to shoot at each other if the Sole Survivor didn't intervene or convince both sides to stand down. Unless those in the leadership who signed the order did all the work themselves, I doubt that they'd be able to create and conduct all those experiments on Supermutants all by themselves. There were likely plenty of Institute scientists involved in the project. No, because they don't constitute an ethnic group either whatsoever. They aren't biologically different from the surfacers, even despite their self-imposed isolation and attempts to mitigate contact with the outside world. They've all suffered some degree of radiation exposure and damage, which is the primary reason that they needed Shaun in the first place, because he came from "pure" human stock from before the bombs fell. Consider if the Sole Survivor had never woken from cryo, the Brotherhood of Steel would have still come into the Commonwealth gunning to take down the Institute, so the conflict and possibly destruction of the facility could have still happened regardless of our involvement. The Institute had painted a huge target on their backs, meaning that their possible destruction would have come at their own hands, the Sole Survivor's presence merely accelerated things. Secondly, Caesar's Legion was formed by multiple tribes that were conquered and forcibly integrated into their ranks, thereby adopting the Legion's culture, language (many of them speak Latin) and manner of dress, while erasing their former tribal heritage. The Legion has a major presence in Nevada and Arizona, likely with far more members than the Institute and thus easily qualifies as being a civilisation all unto itself. And third, that doesn't answer the point. If the Institute deserves to survive despite subjugating the Synths, as well as destroying both the Railroad and the Brotherhood in that region, then shouldn't the Legion equally deserve to survive, despite subjugating the various tribes in Vegas and destroying the Brotherhood in that region? How are their situations any different? The Institute refuse to see anyone outside their own four walls as important. They don't treat either the Synths or Commonwealth citizens with any empathy whatsoever, viewing the former as property and the latter with derision, allowing them to callously conduct their manipulations and experimentation on them with clinical detachment. They refuse to accept the notion that the Synths are alive, despite showing independent thought, self-awareness and even fear of their own mortality, all qualities that demonstrate they are both alive and sapient. By acting as their errand boy? Most of the questline basically involves the Sole Survivor working as a human Courser for them. Even afterwards they still don't fully trust the Sole Survivor, as Lawrence Higgs and other scientists demonstrate by protesting the decision. It's clearly stated that Father didn't speak to the Directorate before appointing the Sole Survivor as his successor. Which will be plenty of help if someone in the Directorate decides to assassinate the Sole Survivor. I mean, what's to stop them from replacing you with a Synth doppleganger without the rest of the Institute knowing, allowing them to continue on as before with someone easier to control?
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Post by xilizhra on Mar 14, 2017 19:08:40 GMT
I've run through this before and it's not entirely on-topic anyway, so I'll be briefer: And third, that doesn't answer the point. If the Institute deserves to survive despite subjugating the Synths, as well as destroying both the Railroad and the Brotherhood in that region, then shouldn't the Legion equally deserve to survive, despite subjugating the various tribes in Vegas and destroying the Brotherhood in that region? How are their situations any different? Because in FNV, you don't get a chance to become Caesar and you aren't forced to stop the Legion by nuking Arizona until it glows, the latter of which is just one of the reasons why New Vegas is a rather better game than 4. I would be entirely happy to defeat the Institute militarily and occupy it with the Minutemen, or even possibly the Brotherhood if necessary. But we're nonsensically forced into much too extreme of an action.
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August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Mar 14, 2017 19:21:12 GMT
Because in FNV, you don't get a chance to become Caesar and you aren't forced to stop the Legion by nuking Arizona until it glows, the latter of which is just one of the reasons why New Vegas is a rather better game than 4. I would be entirely happy to defeat the Institute militarily and occupy it with the Minutemen, or even possibly the Brotherhood if necessary. But we're nonsensically forced into much too extreme of an action. Which is why the option to destroy the facility, but evacuate the scientists to safety is the better (and more merciful) outcome. It sacrifices the Institute's means to inflict harm on the Commonwealth and the Synths, while preserving the life of the scientists. Despite all the suffering their actions have caused, the scientists themselves don't deserve to die.
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Post by xilizhra on Mar 14, 2017 19:31:02 GMT
Because in FNV, you don't get a chance to become Caesar and you aren't forced to stop the Legion by nuking Arizona until it glows, the latter of which is just one of the reasons why New Vegas is a rather better game than 4. I would be entirely happy to defeat the Institute militarily and occupy it with the Minutemen, or even possibly the Brotherhood if necessary. But we're nonsensically forced into much too extreme of an action. Which is why the option to destroy the facility, but evacuate the scientists to safety is the better (and more merciful) outcome. It sacrifices the Institute's means to inflict harm on the Commonwealth and the Synths, while preserving the life of the scientists. Despite all the suffering their actions have caused, the scientists themselves don't deserve to die. And I will continue to, extremely firmly, disagree. I liked Acadia more than the Railroad anyway as a future for synths (they don't do that idiotic mindwipe procedure), and Acadia you can leave completely intact and at peace. Hell, there are a lot of things the Institute can do for the Commonwealth to atone for its prior actions that require it to be intact. The big one is curing super mutants, but there's also improved medicine and agriculture, among a lot else.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
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To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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thelastvanguardian
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Mar 15, 2017 5:36:58 GMT
The only thing that they should even try to incorporate into Mass Effect from the fallout series -IF THEY WERE GOING TO... is the VATS system -Just not the way it functions there. Maybe more like research points for a head shot and then analyzing then missing head slot of corpse...+10 to head shot effectiveness.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
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Post by Panda on Mar 15, 2017 9:29:35 GMT
CC..
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laxian
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Post by laxian on Mar 15, 2017 17:19:25 GMT
I miss this thread. Which elements of FO4, if any, would you like to see the ME franchise emulate? Personally, I'd like to see a lot more characters like Nick Valentine, and a greater array of optional "charisma" based perks. Hopefully? NOTHING! Damned, I spent hundreds of hours (about 150+) in FO4 and I've still not found something I truly enjoy besides blasting enemies (damned and RPG should not just be about that, sure they made the shooter mechanics better than in Fallout 3 and New Vegas, but I'd rather have those back instead of having to live without everything they sacrificed for that, like: Good companions (most of them are boring, they don't have personal questst and you can't really talk to them much etc.), believable and great factions (we have crappy (Brotherhood under Maxson...damned hate him and his ideals, I prefer the Lion's BOS in FO3, hell even the BOS in all other Fallout games!), weak (Minutemen - "Damned Preston, grow some balls and get shit done yourself!"), busy saving toasters (the Railroad...no I don't care about your issue, I don't even know if Synths are true AI or not! I tend to say yes, but does that mean that owning them is enslavement? Bossing your child around isn't enslavement either, is it?) and amoral (Institute)...no nuances, no sub-factions (smaller factions that might help during the end-showdown)), good RPG system (the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system was not that bad, but now it's bare bones, stripped down and shitty!) etc. etc. and don't get me started on the story (it's kind of ME3 again, just that it's just two endings (side with institute or blow it up)...no ending slides either (how should I care about companions if I don't know what they will do after the game is done?)...so again: I HOPE THEY DID NOT TRY TO LEARN ANYTHING FROM THAT MESS - EXCEPT, MAYBE: How NOT to make an RPG (!) greetings LAX
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Post by Kaibe on Mar 15, 2017 17:26:15 GMT
Pets and settlement crafting. That's really it for me.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Mar 15, 2017 18:14:29 GMT
Confession: This thread exists mostly so I can discuss FO4 with ME fans.
Rather than--for example--in the off topic lobby, where the tone is...different.
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warbaby2
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 15, 2017 18:47:12 GMT
Confession: This thread exists mostly so I can discuss FO4 with ME fans. Rather than--for example--in the off topic lobby, where the tone is...different. Hehe... Well, so what could MEA learn? How to do outposts... I must have spent 200+ hours building settlements in FO4 to date... never finished the game, though.
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