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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 5, 2018 20:01:49 GMT
I don't buy it. The way he says the word "elven" is derisive and dismissive. Which fits - he's a defeated elf, only fulfilling duty. He sees no hope beyond the Temple or with the remains of his people. It all fits. It's why he's so ready to destroy the Well. Sorry, we're just going to agree to disagree on this one. I'll just add this - Abelas being guarded/dismissive when he first asks Solas his question makes sense, because Solas was on the cusp of restoring a sliver of hope in an elf that has otherwise lost it all and seems to be prepared for the worst (a trait surviving ancient appear to share, don't they?). In fact, we DO see that hope took root, because the only time we see gloomy Abelas display even a shadow of a positive emotion was when Solas addressed him in elvhen, right before he abandons his duty (and Solas suggests in banter with Dorian later on that Abelas is likely on his way to join surviving elvhen). Hence I see no reason to dismiss the whole interaction just because Abelas sounded bitter'ish at some point, because that simply... well, fits the whole scenario. In fact, I'd say that their interactions make no sense to be there at all if Abelas didn't recognize Solas (at least as an ancient elf) and why their dialogues always take priority over comments made by other characters when Solas is in the group. Just about everyone I bring with me to the Temple encourages Abelas, including Solas. Quizzy says Abelas can help fight Coryfish, or rejoin his people, Solas says pretty much the same thing. Other companions may chime in along the same lines. Abelas doesn't say "yes" to any of the options - he just gloomily says that he'll consider them. It's that part of the conversation from the party to Abelas - "don't despair, we can use you in the fight or the elves could use your help." There's nothing remarkable about what Solas says until we replay the game and then know he's the Dread Wolf, and that his words can have more meaning. Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 5, 2018 20:33:07 GMT
When Abelas says to Solas "Elven such as you?" he says it with a sarcastic, unimpressed tone. The same tone he uses when he tells an elven Quizzy "you are not my people." He, in my opinion, sees Solas as just another worthless version of elves that have lived outside their Temple and he doesn't have much faith in them. I don't buy that he recognizes Solas as another ancient elf. No, this is not a sarcastic, unimpressed tone. It's a guarded one - and after Solas confirms Abelas is shown to chew this over, making a meaningful pause before he continues the conversation. That is not my read at all. "Elvhen such as you" sounded very sarcastic. I assumed Abelas thought Solas was a modern elf, not Fen'Harel in secret.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 5, 2018 21:11:13 GMT
No, this is not a sarcastic, unimpressed tone. It's a guarded one - and after Solas confirms Abelas is shown to chew this over, making a meaningful pause before he continues the conversation. That is not my read at all. "Elvhen such as you" sounded very sarcastic. Let's assume it does - how does that proves that Abelas saw Solas as little more than modern elf when basically all other interactions/comments suggest the opposite? Why did they go through all the effort to make it clear that Solas is the only elf of all that enter with Inquisition that Abelas unequivocally describes as 'one of his own' (with meaningful camera shot at Solas the moment he says it) and has more interactions with Solas than other companions - and ends with him almost smiling and nodding at his parting words? It's just a bit weird to hang on one small interaction, especially that Abelas has reasons to sound harsh/bitter/guarded or even sarcastic regardless what he knows/thinks of Solas. Just about everyone I bring with me to the Temple encourages Abelas, including Solas. Quizzy says Abelas can help fight Coryfish, or rejoin his people, Solas says pretty much the same thing. Other companions may chime in along the same lines. Abelas doesn't say "yes" to any of the options - he just gloomily says that he'll consider them. It's that part of the conversation from the party to Abelas - "don't despair, we can use you in the fight or the elves could use your help." There's nothing remarkable about what Solas says until we replay the game and then know he's the Dread Wolf, and that his words can have more meaning. Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Yet only Solas has this number of interactions and - again - Abelas has described Solas as 'his own' even before two of them exchange words, in contrast to Inky or Sera. Solas's scenes always override all other companion exchanges Abelas could have. Nevermind that he never nods or smiles at words of others or is shown to ponder them. Those are reactions exclusive only to interactions with Solas. It's just strange to me that we're discussing one thing as subtle as a perceived tone of voice, but somehow everything else - even if more significant - is ignored. But I think we've discussed it enough on Twitter thread so I'll just leave it at that.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Jun 5, 2018 21:11:33 GMT
No, this is not a sarcastic, unimpressed tone. It's a guarded one - and after Solas confirms Abelas is shown to chew this over, making a meaningful pause before he continues the conversation. That is not my read at all. "Elvhen such as you" sounded very condescending. I assumed Abelas thought Solas was a modern elf, not Fen'Harel in secret. Isn't it possible that the reason for the condescending tone was because he never sympathized with Fen'Harel's rebellion? And that "Elvhen such as you" was referring to rebels rather than modern day elves? Perhaps Abelas partly blames them for Mythal's death, not because they were involved with her murder but because it was her involvement with them that caused the murder? Food for thought at least.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 5, 2018 21:21:15 GMT
That is not my read at all. "Elvhen such as you" sounded very condescending. I assumed Abelas thought Solas was a modern elf, not Fen'Harel in secret. Isn't it possible that the reason for the condescending tone was because he never sympathized with Fen'Harel's rebellion? And that "Elvhen such as you" was referring to rebels rather than modern day elves? Perhaps Abelas partly blames them for Mythal's death, not because they were involved with her murder but because it was her involvement with them that caused the murder? Food for thought at least. Concievably, but that depends entirely on Abelas recognizing Solas as Fen’Harel. I think he cottoned on to the fact that there was more to Solas than meets the eye, but he never realized Solas was the Dread Wolf. If he did, I think that would have produced a stronger reaction.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 5, 2018 21:39:23 GMT
That is not my read at all. "Elvhen such as you" sounded very condescending. I assumed Abelas thought Solas was a modern elf, not Fen'Harel in secret. Isn't it possible that the reason for the condescending tone was because he never sympathized with Fen'Harel's rebellion? And that "Elvhen such as you" was referring to rebels rather than modern day elves? Perhaps Abelas partly blames them for Mythal's death, not because they were involved with her murder but because it was her involvement with them that caused the murder? Food for thought at least. My point exactly. There's just more than one potential reason why Abelas may have sounded harsh/disbelieving/sarcastic or however it is perceived, and they mesh way better with everything else we saw happen between these two characters. It may even be possible that he has sympathized with rebels at one point (though, while I'm fairly sure Abelas recognized Solas as elvhen, I'm not certain if he recognized a rebel/Dread Wolf), but that was millennia ago and Abelas is now old, bitter and thinks that the only thing left for him is guarding the Well. One can easily see why he'd sound guarded and disbelieving regardless what he thought or now thinks of Fen'Harel. And when Solas confirms that yes, it's elvhen such as him that are still out there, Abelas doesn't react with further derision, but is pretty clearly impacted by this information, thus the long pause before he picks up the conversation. He doesn' react that way with any other companion speaking with him when Solas is not present.
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Post by phoray on Jun 6, 2018 0:22:46 GMT
I was pretty sure that was a Tweet to an article/excel sheet/thing that looked kinda official that showed that Dragon Age game players have become 60% female/40% male as of Inquisition. Did I imagine this? It seems such an odd thing to imagine. Hrungr I did do a Tweet thread search for 60% as well as "female players" but since I think it was a tweet with a link, I didn't find it.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 6, 2018 0:27:06 GMT
I was pretty sure that was a Tweet to an article/excel sheet/thing that looked kinda official that showed that Dragon Age game players have become 60% female/40% male as of Inquisition. Did I imagine this? It seems such an odd thing to imagine. Hrungr I did do a Tweet thread search for 60% as well as "female players" but since I think it was a tweet with a link, I didn't find it. Yeah, it was in an infographic EA put out way back when...
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 6, 2018 0:29:46 GMT
That indicates a larger number of male players if we assume MOST players create characters that correspond to their own gender.
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Post by phoray on Jun 6, 2018 0:38:17 GMT
It wasn't a a picture though... I dunno. I wonder where I read it. It had a list of multiple developers or maybe it was a list of recent RPGs with female options and the breakdown of players based on gender. It had a bit of an Excel Sheet or "List" look to it. And it then said 60% for Bioware specifically. thanks anyway Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 6, 2018 0:49:20 GMT
It wasn't a a picture though... I dunno. I wonder where I read it. It had a list of multiple developers or maybe it was a list of recent RPGs with female options and the breakdown of players based on gender. It had a bit of an Excel Sheet or "List" look to it. And it then said 60% for Bioware specifically. thanks anyway Hrungr Quantic Foundry - Beyond 50/50: Breaking Down The Percentage of Female Gamers by Genrequanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/quanticfoundry.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/genre-gender-percentages.pngAssassin’s Creed and Dragon Age are Also Notable Outliers.Among Open World games, Assassin’s Creed Syndicate is noticeably higher than the genre average (27% vs. 14%). And among Western RPGs, Dragon Age: Inquisition is also much higher than the group average (48% vs. 26%).
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Post by enaste on Jun 6, 2018 0:55:15 GMT
Interesting statistics. An unrelated observation, but most of the gender specific mods (clothing, hairstyles) seem to be aimed at female Inquisitors. And female Hawkes, Wardens, Dovahkiins. I always assumed therefore that most protagonists are female indeed due to either self-inserting (for f) or being an eye candy (for m), which would explain the prevalence of female protagonist targeted aesthetical mods. Here it is important to mention that DAI mods drastically differ from some, ahem, content encountered on e.g. Loverslab.
I also have a weird tendency to have a canon image of a protagonist gender, mostly influenced by the gender of my first playthrough. An Inquisitor, Hawke or Champion of Cyrodiil I see canonically female, especially if you draw parallels Inquisitor - Andraste. Wardens and Dovahkiins are somehow male in my mind? Sorry for digressing.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Jun 6, 2018 0:57:05 GMT
Interesting statistics. An unrelated observation, but most of the gender specific mods (clothing, hairstyles) seem to be aimed at female Inquisitors. And female Hawkes, Wardens, Dovahkiins. I always assumed therefore that most protagonists are female indeed due to either self-inserting (for f) or being an eye candy (for m), which would explain the prevalence of female protagonist targeted aesthetical mods. Here it is important to mention that DAI mods drastically differ from some, ahem, content encountered on e.g. Loverslab. I also have a weird tendency to have a canon image of a protagonist gender, mostly influenced by the gender of my first playthrough. An Inquisitor, Hawke or Champion of Cyrodiil I see canonically female, especially if you draw parallels Inquisitor - Andraste. Wardens and Dovahkiins are somehow male in my mind? Sorry for digressing. On the Nexus site, many of the modders are female - which is not a problem - but it's why so many mods are for female avatars.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 6, 2018 0:57:14 GMT
SofaJockey - I've noticed a rise in post corruption lately (see my post above). Any ideas why?
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Post by phoray on Jun 6, 2018 1:13:19 GMT
Among Open World games, Assassin’s Creed Syndicate is noticeably higher than the genre average (27% vs. 14%). And among Western RPGs, Dragon Age: Inquisition is also much higher than the group average (48% vs. 26%). Oh, that looks very much like it! 48% isn't 60% so I must have remembered that incorrectly but I was close ish. You think the Infographic is more legit?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 6, 2018 1:21:28 GMT
Bonus scene if you're romancing Sera: "she's no more of an elf than I am a horse." While Sera would probably take that as a compliment, I'll just have to be offended on her behalf, since he certainly didn't mean it that way. Ugh.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 6, 2018 1:28:02 GMT
Among Open World games, Assassin’s Creed Syndicate is noticeably higher than the genre average (27% vs. 14%). And among Western RPGs, Dragon Age: Inquisition is also much higher than the group average (48% vs. 26%). Oh, that looks very much like it! 48% isn't 60% so I must have remembered that incorrectly but I was close ish. You think the Infographic is more legit? The Infographic came straight from EA, so it's going to be accurate - at least at the time they published it (sometime in 2015, not that long from launch).
The Quantic survey was done later (results published early 2017), so could the M-F ratio have shifted in that time? Possibly, but that seems like a pretty significant disparity between the two, so... only BioWare could really tell us for sure.
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Post by phoray on Jun 6, 2018 1:53:41 GMT
The Quantic survey was done later (results published early 2017), so could the M-F ratio have shifted in that time? Possibly, but that seems like a pretty significant disparity between the two, so... only BioWare could really tell us for sure. It could have. DAI has more Fem Inky romances, so it could have increased as a result. I know I wasn't playing video games in 2015. oh well. Again, thanks for finding what I could not.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 6, 2018 2:02:23 GMT
That indicates a larger number of male players if we assume MOST players create characters that correspond to their own gender. I made mostly male Inquisitors and I'm a women... I try to make female characters when I can, but sometimes there is something that annoys me, usually how they walk, the model and/or the voice. In DAI cases, it's the voice and I like the two actress but I think I just associated them to other characters and that cause issues for me. It's like the female trooper in SWTOR, I just can't...it just sound like I'm playing Shepard in a not Mass Effect game...male is not that better, because Varric.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jun 6, 2018 3:28:07 GMT
Hence the reason I wrote MOST in capital letters.
I’m well aware there are gamers who play characters of the opposite gender. But you’re the exception, not the norm.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 6, 2018 3:29:06 GMT
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahHave you ever suggested doing something because the acronym is too perfect? Graham Scott biomasika DAMP... just sayin' Conal Pierse @conalpierse I always wished we could have called the web portal Mass Effect: Andromeda-Online World or MEAOW for short.
John Epler @eplerjc Working with Matt for so many years definitely has an effect.
[HASH]DAT
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 6, 2018 4:35:58 GMT
Dr. Witch Hazel, PhD🐐 @hazelmonforton So many industry people follow me now on this garbage twitter account where I am always logged in and deeply unprofessional.
John Epler @eplerjc It's a good place to be tbh.
Dr. Witch Hazel, PhD🐐 @hazelmonforton Thank you. Hello. Sometiems I tweet about my dragon age fanfiction. Do not be alarmed.
John Epler @eplerjc Oh I guarantee that there is nothing more alarming in fan fiction than some of the ideas we've thrown around in official work meetings cc @patrickweekes
damon @demanrisu That sounds like a challenge?
John Epler @eplerjc If anyone takes this as a challenge please send your ideas to @patrickweekes
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes W o w
John Epler @eplerjc I'm helping!
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 6, 2018 5:28:45 GMT
Considering their stance at not looking at fan submissions for legal reasons, perhaps that wasn't the wisest thing for Epler to tweet. Yes, it was clearly a joke/Epler harassing Weekes, but you know how some in fandom are.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 6, 2018 6:56:21 GMT
SofaJockey - I've noticed a rise in post corruption lately (see my post above). Any ideas why? It's a piece of spurious code I've seen occasionally. Which can just be deleted from the post, once you figure out which bit to delete: it usually relates to a link.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 6, 2018 13:09:39 GMT
Considering their stance at not looking at fan submissions for legal reasons, perhaps that wasn't the wisest thing for Epler to tweet. Yes, it was clearly a joke/Epler harassing Weekes, but you know how some in fandom are. I'm fairly sure they have their ways of wading through all the ideas they're sent without looking at them, because I don't think some people need any encouragement to do that, sadly.
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