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Post by goodfellajoey on Mar 21, 2017 13:45:25 GMT
I think the reason ME:A is getting mixed reviews is for a few specific reasons. I have played the early access and have been playing the game since midnight and have a fairly good idea about the quality of the game.
Reviewers are trying to compare it to other games that have came out recently such as Horizon Zero Dawn and Zelda Breath of the Wild. At least one of these two games have been mentioned in about 8 reviews I have read so far. You can't compare games when reviewing. It's one of the things I dislike most that reviewers do. Comparing one game to another just because you like something another game did better takes away from what ME:A did right and just highlights what it does wrong.
Comparing it to its previous installments. Shepard was a great character that we loved (most of us) so moving forward with a new hero in a mass effect game is a foreign concept and is going to be met with some resistance. Obviously it's not just Shepard and the new characters, It's everything. The cover based system, the open world, the crafting, the quests. Everything. So much of Andromeda hasn't been done in a Mass Effect game and it's seems like a lot of reviews wanted a clone of the the original series as opposed to something new.
This isn't defending or discrediting reviewers scores because I never cared for anyone's review but my own. These two points however have been in 70 percent of the reviews I have read. If you take away the original series and think of this game as a new IP it would have scored higher. It's a great game with a few flaws that may be completely oblivious to one person and something someone else can't look past.
The best review I've seen was on YouTube the guy posts on here I think his username was radaway.
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Post by NUM13ER on Mar 21, 2017 13:53:57 GMT
If you make a game called Mass Effect, gamers are going to compare it to other Mass Effect games. Andromeda wants to capitalise off the popularity and fanbase of the OT. It cannot do so without the expectations that will inevitably bring. You don't want that pressure? Make a new IP.
Furthermore most comparisons in terms of combat and vehicles have actually been favourable, so there are benefits too.
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Post by PillarBiter on Mar 21, 2017 14:11:44 GMT
Let's be real, MEA is a game which is finished for about 80%. So it gets and 8/10. Seems pretty fair to me.
I happen to really, really like whatever's in the 80%.
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Post by somedude on Mar 21, 2017 14:16:29 GMT
They simply cannot praise the game with some of the technical issues it has. Giving the game a high score with undeniably bad facial animations and lip synching would make them look foolish.
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Post by degs29 on Mar 21, 2017 14:30:11 GMT
Reviewers are trying to compare it to other games that have came out recently such as Horizon Zero Dawn and Zelda Breath of the Wild. At least one of these two games have been mentioned in about 8 reviews I have read so far. You can't compare games when reviewing. It's one of the things I dislike most that reviewers do. Comparing one game to another just because you like something another game did better takes away from what ME:A did right and just highlights what it does wrong. If you can't rate a game based on comparison to other games...you can't rate a game at all. You wouldn't have any frame of reference. That's like asking a color-blind person how red something is. It's proper to compare ME:A to other modern games. Personally, I rate games on a scale of 0 - 10, with 0 being the worst game I've ever played and 10 being the best. Such a system rightly doesn't account for nostalgia, which I think most reviewers err on. For example, I would have rated Ocarina of Time a 10/10 when it came out, but now it's about an 8/10. The scale always changes as better and better games come out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 14:31:45 GMT
The thing that gave me pause before playing (and I would hate to even call it a concern, because it is just a euphemism for "I want to rant about a minor irritant" imo) is not the overabundance of the new things, it's actually too many old things, like the crew comp and all major characters seemingly being Milky Way. I sort of understand the idea of anchoring us in the familiar world, but I really was looking forward to plunging into the new verse, exploring new worlds and communicating and working with new races/agendas/peoples. I want to see how this aspect is delivered, and I hope it is not limited to scanning for differently named crops or some such.
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Post by webs on Mar 21, 2017 14:33:20 GMT
I never listen to reviewers, it's a waste of time.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 21, 2017 14:33:21 GMT
Your theory is wrong, IMO
Here's a better theory.
The game got mediocre reviews, instead of great reviews, because it's not a great game.
I'm not sure why everyone is trying to make excuses for the review scores.
Some of the more critical reviews do a better job of reviewing the game as a standalone. It seems like the more positive reviews are the ones that are making the comparisons between this and the old trilogy
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 14:47:05 GMT
It's amazing how reviews were the be all and end all back when Inquisition was getting fantastic media coverage despite a mixed reception from actual gamers, people that didn't like it were being told they were wrong because "look at the reviews! It's objectively a great game.". Now Andromeda isn't getting the best coverage all of a sudden we aren't supposed to put any stock into reviews and are being told to buy it and only then make a judgement. Almost seems like people only look to reviews to confirm their own biases or something...
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Post by urkibalurki on Mar 21, 2017 14:56:34 GMT
Reviews for games are like tripadvisor for hotels & restaurants: they're often biased, and I don't care about them.
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Post by II So Close II on Mar 21, 2017 15:03:58 GMT
I think the reason ME:A is getting mixed reviews is for a few specific reasons. I have played the early access and have been playing the game since midnight and have a fairly good idea about the quality of the game. Reviewers are trying to compare it to other games that have came out recently such as Horizon Zero Dawn and Zelda Breath of the Wild. At least one of these two games have been mentioned in about 8 reviews I have read so far. You can't compare games when reviewing. It's one of the things I dislike most that reviewers do. Comparing one game to another just because you like something another game did better takes away from what ME:A did right and just highlights what it does wrong. Comparing it to its previous installments. Shepard was a great character that we loved (most of us) so moving forward with a new hero in a mass effect game is a foreign concept and is going to be met with some resistance. Obviously it's not just Shepard and the new characters, It's everything. The cover based system, the open world, the crafting, the quests. Everything. So much of Andromeda hasn't been done in a Mass Effect game and it's seems like a lot of reviews wanted a clone of the the original series as opposed to something new. This isn't defending or discrediting reviewers scores because I never cared for anyone's review but my own. These two points however have been in 70 percent of the reviews I have read. If you take away the original series and think of this game as a new IP it would have scored higher. It's a great game with a few flaws that may be completely oblivious to one person and something someone else can't look past. The best review I've seen was on YouTube the guy posts on here I think his username was radaway. I have to say I don't agree with your criticism of reviewers at all. One of the most important things for any reviewer in any field is to contextualise that which is being reviewed and to compare it to similar work. While you may or may not agree with the similarities, saying that you "can't compare games when reviewing" is, quite frankly, wrong. In fact, as a rule, you cannot review games (or movies, plays, books etc.) in a vacuum. Putting the words "Mass Effect" in a title means huge expectations. When you fail to deliver to those expectations (some of which are demonstrably justified, e.g. CC, animations and writing), the reviews will be less than stellar. That's not exactly Andromeda Initiative levels of rocket science. Either way, Bioware's job - and duty to stakeholders - is to make the best possible game, not settle for "that'll do". Finally, I also do not agree with your suggestion that reviewers wanted a clone of the old games, not something new. Reviewers and gamers are, in general, perfectly fine with new. They just need the new to be warranted and, above all else, good. Andromeda, in their eyes, hasn't delivered. That's not to say I agree with them (or disagree with them for that matter), but they are entitled to their opinion.
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Post by ticktak77 on Mar 21, 2017 15:33:34 GMT
Reviews for games are like tripadvisor for hotels & restaurants: they're often biased, and I don't care about them. Favorite game gets great views - "REVIEWS ARE GREAT. TRULY OBJECTIVE. CLEARLY THIS GAME IS OUTSTANDING" Favorite game reviews poorly - "REVIEWS ARE BIASED AND SHOULDN'T MATTER TO PEOPLE"
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Post by urkibalurki on Mar 21, 2017 15:45:38 GMT
Reviews for games are like tripadvisor for hotels & restaurants: they're often biased, and I don't care about them. Favorite game gets great views - "REVIEWS ARE GREAT. TRULY OBJECTIVE. CLEARLY THIS GAME IS OUTSTANDING" Favorite game reviews poorly - "REVIEWS ARE BIASED AND SHOULDN'T MATTER TO PEOPLE" I never said that. I don't care about reviews even when they are positive: I form my own judgement, that's all.
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Post by Raga on Mar 21, 2017 16:44:07 GMT
Can't speak for the other two (Andromeda and Breath of the Wild) yet, but I can say Horizon: Zero Dawn is overrated by about 5 to 10 points, mostly because it's a visually beautiful game. Over the last few years, I feel like reviewers don't drastically overrate games like they used to, but they still do it sometimes, and they also tend to bandwagon high profile games, whether they are trashing it or praising it.
That and it seems like people obsess over graphics more than they ever have. Somebody posted a 12 minute long review here yesterday and the first half was talking about basically graphics and sound, nevermind, you know, gameplay and story and stuff. Games drop frame-rates a bit and they get docked 5 to 10 points. Consider this a console peasant grouching about the PC overlords. I have played some downright ugly games that were excellent. I have played some beautiful games that sucked.
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Post by goodfellajoey on Mar 21, 2017 17:33:29 GMT
The biggest point I'm trying to get across is that every review should be based on going into a game blind is if it's the only game in the series or the only game that exists for the time you play it.
Im not defending good or bad reviews. I'm not enjoying any reviews because there is no consensus on what's good or bad. It's either being compared to something else or compared to its predecessors which is a little easier to understand, however still it's Mass Effect but also very different. One review likes the combat and hates the story, another likes the story hates the combat. I think we have reached a point in time where reviews are no longer relevant because everyone's taste in games is so varied as are the games we play, so reviews are too biased because everyone likes different things. I love Zelda. Breath of the Wild is amazing, but I could never compare it to ME:A because they are different games.
I think my original post was worded wrong and my point wasn't made very clearly which is my fault.
My point is reviewers are people who get paid (sometimes) to play video games, which we all do. They have different tastes in games as we do. Some of us look to reviews as the reason we will buy a game, either day one or in the future. The best review and the only review that matters though is our own.
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Post by solaxe on Mar 21, 2017 17:36:08 GMT
Sorry but comparing to other games is totally fine. Especially when you're a studio which had a reputation.
And don't use this "they're different games" excuse, it's more about general polish, attention to details, quality etc. Horizon and BotW are VERY polished games. Andromeda apparently is not.
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Post by Psychevore on Mar 21, 2017 17:43:56 GMT
I think there are some issues with the reviews, and a lot off it can be blamed on people not listening to what Bioware said about the game themselves.
I've seen a lot of mentions that 'the story isn't as big as in the trilogy'. That's all really great, but they told us this long, long before this game went gold. Not months, but years before. Same for the complaints that Ryder 'isn't like Shepard'. Again, they told us this years ago.
To me it seems like a lot of reviewers expected ME4. But this game was never going to be ME4, they were abundanly clear about this.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 21, 2017 18:07:03 GMT
Can't speak for the other two (Andromeda and Breath of the Wild) yet, but I can say Horizon: Zero Dawn is overrated by about 5 to 10 points, mostly because it's a visually beautiful game. Over the last few years, I feel like reviewers don't drastically overrate games like they used to, but they still do it sometimes, and they also tend to bandwagon high profile games, whether they are trashing it or praising it. That and it seems like people obsess over graphics more than they ever have. Somebody posted a 12 minute long review here yesterday and the first half was talking about basically graphics and sound, nevermind, you know, gameplay and story and stuff. Games drop frame-rates a bit and they get docked 5 to 10 points. Consider this a console peasant grouching about the PC overlords. I have played some downright ugly games that were excellent. I have played some beautiful games that sucked. This highlights the most baffling thing about these 'reviews' for me. Complaining about bugs and graphics problems. And while bugs can be bad sometimes they also depend on individial pieces of hardware or triggered by very specific circumstances, graphics are something I have been told not to care about. One of the most important maxims I have picked up from gaming when I seriously got into gaming (because of Mass Effect) was that graphics don't matter. And it seemed like the review industry generally agreed because I have seen games with far worse graphics and more graphical problems get much higher ratings...and I have also seen comments of 'Inquisition is a beautiful game yet so what, we want more of x instead and graphics matter'...and yet suddenly because of Andromeda Graphics matter? Facial animations is a deal breaker? I understand differing opinions and what not but I smell a rat. In the professional reviewers and a lot of the commentary from some of the people on this board.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 21, 2017 18:10:44 GMT
It's amazing how reviews were the be all and end all back when Inquisition was getting fantastic media coverage despite a mixed reception from actual gamers, people that didn't like it were being told they were wrong because "look at the reviews! It's objectively a great game.". Now Andromeda isn't getting the best coverage all of a sudden we aren't supposed to put any stock into reviews and are being told to buy it and only then make a judgement. Almost seems like people only look to reviews to confirm their own biases or something... I remember when inquisition got favorable reviews some accuse them of being paid shills
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Post by colfoley on Mar 21, 2017 18:20:15 GMT
It's amazing how reviews were the be all and end all back when Inquisition was getting fantastic media coverage despite a mixed reception from actual gamers, people that didn't like it were being told they were wrong because "look at the reviews! It's objectively a great game.". Now Andromeda isn't getting the best coverage all of a sudden we aren't supposed to put any stock into reviews and are being told to buy it and only then make a judgement. Almost seems like people only look to reviews to confirm their own biases or something... I remember when inquisition got favorable reviews some accuse them of being paid shills I was going to reply to him, but then real life things happened and I am not always sure what the statute of limitations are when it comes to replying. Regardless, I do not remember a lot of people using good review scores to justify their own opinion on the merits of Inquisition. Merely my argument always was the game was critically acclaimed and it sold well, so that likely means we are getting a sequel at some point. Which is the only reason I care about reviews and sales figures because while I do not really care about such things for me personally, EA does.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2017 18:39:58 GMT
It's amazing how reviews were the be all and end all back when Inquisition was getting fantastic media coverage despite a mixed reception from actual gamers, people that didn't like it were being told they were wrong because "look at the reviews! It's objectively a great game.". Now Andromeda isn't getting the best coverage all of a sudden we aren't supposed to put any stock into reviews and are being told to buy it and only then make a judgement. Almost seems like people only look to reviews to confirm their own biases or something... I remember when inquisition got favorable reviews some accuse them of being paid shills So do I, It does go both ways. People vehemently defending a game that has yet to be released and suggesting mods need to "take a look at" posters saying negative things about the game will make one wonder though, wouldn't you agree, smilesja?
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Post by Gaston on Mar 21, 2017 18:41:04 GMT
You can absolutely compare games to other games released that same year/decade, especially when the comparison is about the technological aspects of the game.
When reviewing a game, a lot of it will be subjective because art is subjective for the most part. But what is not subjective is the technological aspect of the game. The graphics, the gameplay, the animations, the bugs, the performance, etc.
Sadly, ME:A is objectively mediocre at best in those departments. The environmental graphics are stunning, but the characters look cartoony and out of place, especially with the terrible animations. The gameplay is good, not perfect but not bad either. It is however an improvement over ME3. Sadly the game has plenty of glitches and bugs, mostly of graphical nature but in general the game feels very rough around the edges. Performance-wise, the game is also rather poorly optimized. You need a beast of a machine to play this game on 'ultra' while honestly it doesn't look better than The Witcher 3 or Dragon Age: Inquisition (which both had much less extreme hardware requirements).
If we look at the open-world exploration aspect of ME:A, there's much left to be desired there too. The world look graphically stunning, but the things to do feel like busywork and things get pretty repetitive and can sometimes feel like a grind. This is especially obvious after having played The Legend of Zelda; Breath of the Wild, a game that really set a new standard for open-world games and really managed to make open-world exploration fun! ME:A just falls kinda short in that aspect compared to Zelda BoTW.
Then there's the writing, which is a bit more of a subjective thing, but even so, some of the dialogue feels objectively awkward and out of place, with sometimes rather questionable delivery. Several times I felt "wow, a real person would never say that" or "a real person would never say it that way". I have some objections with the main story too, but I won't be going into that here. Still, you cannot deny that some of the dialogue is just kinda bad.
The more I see about this game, the more I'm convinced BioWare should have delayed the release of the game by at least another 6 months. The game feels incredibly rough around the edges and it does not hold up to the new standard set by games like The Witcher 3, Horizon Zero Dawn and The Legend of Zelda; Breath of the Wild.
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Post by Lorn on Mar 21, 2017 19:46:36 GMT
You can absolutely compare games to other games released that same year/decade, especially when the comparison is about the technological aspects of the game. When reviewing a game, a lot of it will be subjective because art is subjective for the most part. But what is not subjective is the technological aspect of the game. The graphics, the gameplay, the animations, the bugs, the performance, etc. Sadly, ME:A is objectively mediocre at best in those departments. The environmental graphics are stunning, but the characters look cartoony and out of place, especially with the terrible animations. The gameplay is good, not perfect but not bad either. It is however an improvement over ME3. Sadly the game has plenty of glitches and bugs, mostly of graphical nature but in general the game feels very rough around the edges. Performance-wise, the game is also rather poorly optimized. You need a beast of a machine to play this game on 'ultra' while honestly it doesn't look better than The Witcher 3 or Dragon Age: Inquisition (which both had much less extreme hardware requirements). If we look at the open-world exploration aspect of ME:A, there's much left to be desired there too. The world look graphically stunning, but the things to do feel like busywork and things get pretty repetitive and can sometimes feel like a grind. This is especially obvious after having played The Legend of Zelda; Breath of the Wild, a game that really set a new standard for open-world games and really managed to make open-world exploration fun! ME:A just falls kinda short in that aspect compared to Zelda BoTW. Then there's the writing, which is a bit more of a subjective thing, but even so, some of the dialogue feels objectively awkward and out of place, with sometimes rather questionable delivery. Several times I felt "wow, a real person would never say that" or "a real person would never say it that way". I have some objections with the main story too, but I won't be going into that here. Still, you cannot deny that some of the dialogue is just kinda bad. The more I see about this game, the more I'm convinced BioWare should have delayed the release of the game by at least another 6 months. The game feels incredibly rough around the edges and it does not hold up to the new standard set by games like The Witcher 3, Horizon Zero Dawn and The Legend of Zelda; Breath of the Wild. Let's be real here, this game would not be improved by 6 more monthso of development.
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Post by degs29 on Mar 21, 2017 20:06:10 GMT
Gotta be honest, I think the fact that the user score on metacritic for ME:A is lower than No Man's Sky says something about Bioware's consumers.
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Post by malanek on Mar 21, 2017 20:11:05 GMT
I just find it staggering that DAI was getting such superior reviews to ME:Andromeda. It doesn't make sense to me that the same people could review the games so differently. It's almost like they realise they overhyped Inquisition (and possibly ME3 without really playing the ending) and looked pretty stupid, and are making up for it by panning Andromeda.
I don't think Andromeda is a top shelf game. It lacks focus, pacing, and polish. Yet there is enough good stuff to make it an enjoyable game, significantly better in fact than a lot of other games those reviewers gush over. I'm not far enough through to give it a final verdict, all I will say is my respect for critical game reviewers is all gone. They might as well not exist.
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