aznricepuff
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aznricepuff on Mar 22, 2017 21:50:09 GMT
The bigger problem with this is how gene therapy is supposed to work in stasis on someone who has all of their biological processes suspended. There is no blood flow, no brain activity, no heartbeat... even activity on an atomic level is frozen in time. Basically this. Also, cells within an individual don't typically evolve in the normal sense (the primary exception being cancer cells). So even if cryo-stasis doesn't slow down metabolism, it's hard to imagine how they could have "evolved" the mutation when there was no reproduction going on. All the other stuff in the OP can be explained away, or isn't actually a problem to begin with. Kesh never says the mutation in the clan arose recently. For all we know it's an ancestral allele that over time became fixed in the population (meaning the clan) through natural selection (seeing as how it increases reproduction rates, there would be fairly strong selection for it). We know that mutations like this are possible because it already happened (see ME2 and Mordin). They could have run simulations or done in vitro experiments to assess the impact of the mutation on offspring viability. We know such things are possible because it was specifically stated in ME2 that Mordin ran similar simulations/experiments for his genophage upgrade. The explanation in the wiki for why gene therapy isn't possible doesn't even make sense. In real life, most of the proposed targets for gene therapy are hereditary mutations, which means that all the cells of an affected individual would have that mutation. That doesn't stop the gene therapy from (theoretically) working. Gene therapy doesn't need to "cure" the mutation from every cell in the body; it only needs to target the cells and tissues that are affected by the mutation to cause the disease. For example, the mutation for hemoglobin that causes sickle cell is present in every cell in an affected individual. However, gene therapy would only need to target hematopoietic stem cells to cure the disease because only red blood cells make hemoglobin. Likewise, a gene therapy for the genophage would only need to target whatever cells and tissues that are responsible for the decrease in fetal viability. Now it's possible that the genophage is some kind of pan-tropic retrovirus that constantly replicates and spreads within the body so that any cell not cured of it can subsequently reintroduce the genophage to cured cells. But I can't remember anything in canon stating that this is the case. And even if it is, there's theoretically nothing stopping someone from developing a gene therapy that targets every cell in the body. It would be more difficult to pull off, surely, but probably no more so than developing the genophage.
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Post by rahavan on Mar 22, 2017 21:51:27 GMT
Talking with your twin in a coma. That's just not how comas work. Secondly meeting the angara for the first time and understanding their language in it's entirety in less than two minutes with no explanation.
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Post by spacebeetle on Mar 22, 2017 21:53:08 GMT
On habitat 7: The idea that plugging SAM to the PC brain is the only cure availaible to the beginning of suffocation caused by the planet thin atmosphere. I find... impossible to believe something like that is necessary, considering the situation as a whole. Also the idea that an AI able to be plugged to organic brains can make eezo appear from nothingness and make an engineer in a biotic on the fly. It violates at least the principle of mass conservation (among the others). Hey, at least Ryder was only clinically dead for 22 seconds. Not like two years the last time they pulled a stunt like that True. At least the cyborg zombie is fresh this time around. And we see it quite clearly: Yeah yeah, low blow... but waaay to easy.
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Post by jastall on Mar 22, 2017 21:59:14 GMT
That Krogans were adapting to the Genophage over time was a thing in the trilogy. Mordin and an STG team had to disperse chemicals to reinforce it and prevent the Krogans from mutating (which worked, somehow).
The bigger problem is how they managed to mutate people in croysleep, but there's an handwave there; they're Krogans. If nourished, they could literally have spent the entire voyage awake. So it's possible that they awoke them enough for mutations to take place, but not enough that they are conscious. They would still age, but more slowly, and given that Krogans basically don't have an expiration date that we know of, it's not a big problem for them.
As for the SAM problem, what I understood is that the stress of transferring the AI over to Ryder jr. was overwhelming them. So they plugged Ryder directly into the system. It wasn't caused by them suffocating.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2017 22:06:17 GMT
At this point in our development, where we basically ignore 95% of what composes our universe and are still speculating about its geometry, we can't say with certainty what is possible and what is impossible. Nor about how evolution works, nor space travel or mass conservation... People often forget it because technology is everywhere around us, but our science is very young. Not to be too rude with our scientists, but until now they have just scratched the surface, not deeply understood how our world works.
Atheists will not like this argument, but Jesus did materialize things "from nothingness". You can believe it or not, but that at least oblige us to be very modest about what we know about the "laws of physics".
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Post by spacebeetle on Mar 22, 2017 22:27:13 GMT
At this point in our development, where we basically ignore 95% of what composes our universe and are still speculating about its geometry, we can't say with certainty what is possible and what is impossible. Nor about how evolution works, nor space travel or mass conservation... People often forget it because technology is everywhere around us, but our science is very young. Not to be too rude with our scientists, but until now they have just scratched the surface, not deeply understood how our world works. Atheists will not like this argument, but Jesus did materialize things "from nothingness". You can believe it or not, but that at least oblige us to be very modest about what we know about the "laws of physics". Are you really trying to use dogmatic belief as a foundation for a critical discussion? Oh, and btw, Christian religious belief too is quite young if compared to humans as a species: 2000 years of cult history vs the 100’000 of stuttering evolution we have been subjected to upon this tiny blue planet should suggest a more… humble view on the certainty of any belief. Especially those who were used to put people on a stake and burn them alive when they disagreed with the doctrine. Just saying.
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Post by shepherdcommander on Mar 22, 2017 22:34:12 GMT
here is a very important detail that I think bioware is playing on to make the Nakmor clan viable:
in ME2 mordin states that he had a hand in the genophage. mordin is a salarian, and salarians live for ~40 years. remember that the genophage has existed for over 1000 years, over 1400 years according to wrex.
so how did mordin have a hand in the genophage if it occured 1400 years before he was born?
he says the krogan as a whole were beginning to show adaptation, and he had to intervene 1400 years after the genophage was first introduced, to re-establish the genophage.
Nakmor clan was aboard the arks when mordin re-established the genophage effects.
that is my headcanon anyway.
(original PM, editted to share info to all)
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 22, 2017 22:35:44 GMT
A lot of things in this thread were explained in the trilogy and in the game itself. A lot of it is space magic and AI, but it's reasonable for the scope of the game. They already established that parts of the body can wake from stasis. Perhaps the Krogan isolated one of their ... quads and did not subject them to stasis. Their redundancy would make it relatively low risk. Krogan have a very long lifespan so age isn't an issue. That would explain how they could undergo gene therapy. Employ your imagination people
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Post by Pearl on Mar 22, 2017 22:43:08 GMT
A recursive search would be absolutely pointless in the context of the scene.
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Post by goishen on Mar 22, 2017 22:43:58 GMT
The thing that I can't get over, the thing that consistently blows my mind. How the geth saw Andromeda in the first place.
They what? Pulled together three relays. Okay, got that. Then what? They used photons shooting down from Andromeda, okay got that. And then what, they just magically could see 2.5 million years into the future through a telescope?
Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. There's a reason we say light years, because that's the time it takes light to travel that distance. What light do you think we're looking at? Magically accelerating light? WTF?!
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Post by spacebeetle on Mar 22, 2017 22:46:38 GMT
The thing that I can't get over, the thing that consistently blows my mind. How the geth saw Andromeda in the first place. They what? Pulled together three relays. Okay, got that. Then what? They used photons shooting down from Andromeda, okay got that. And then what, they just magically could see 2.5 million years into the future through a telescope? Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. There's a reason we say light years, because that's the distance that light takes to travel one year. What light do you think we're looking at? Magically accelerating light? WTF?! It's simple: the Geth created fake data on Andromeda to study the organic reactions to them. It worked better than expected.
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Post by goishen on Mar 22, 2017 22:48:54 GMT
The thing that I can't get over, the thing that consistently blows my mind. How the geth saw Andromeda in the first place. They what? Pulled together three relays. Okay, got that. Then what? They used photons shooting down from Andromeda, okay got that. And then what, they just magically could see 2.5 million years into the future through a telescope? Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. There's a reason we say light years, because that's the distance that light takes to travel one year. What light do you think we're looking at? Magically accelerating light? WTF?! It's simple: the Geth created fake data on Andromeda to study the organic reactions to them. It worked better than expected. "Let's see if they' ahhhhhhhhh.... Yep, big freakin' sheep."
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 22, 2017 23:01:10 GMT
The thing that I can't get over, the thing that consistently blows my mind. How the geth saw Andromeda in the first place. They what? Pulled together three relays. Okay, got that. Then what? They used photons shooting down from Andromeda, okay got that. And then what, they just magically could see 2.5 million years into the future through a telescope? Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. There's a reason we say light years, because that's the time it takes light to travel that distance. What light do you think we're looking at? Magically accelerating light? WTF?! It doesn't make sense within the lore... or science. Aside the fact that mass relays are practically impossible to "move" in the first place, they still only have only one function: Create a close to mass less tunnel ships can be propelled though. Nothing about what the Geth apparently did has anything to do with that functionality. It's just BW explaining another bit of space magic by using an existing lore item... or better three of them, because it instantly sounds more plausible if you say they used three relays.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 22, 2017 23:16:20 GMT
I was going to mention the Geth telescope thing.. but its been done.
Has anyone seen an explanation for the Water and ice requirement in game yet? I'm referring to the pre release briefings where Suvi said they need helium 3, water, ice and element zero to rebuild the nexus.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 22, 2017 23:22:27 GMT
The thing that I can't get over, the thing that consistently blows my mind. How the geth saw Andromeda in the first place. They what? Pulled together three relays. Okay, got that. Then what? They used photons shooting down from Andromeda, okay got that. And then what, they just magically could see 2.5 million years into the future through a telescope? Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. There's a reason we say light years, because that's the time it takes light to travel that distance. What light do you think we're looking at? Magically accelerating light? WTF?! It doesn't make sense within the lore... or science. Aside the fact that mass relays are practically impossible to "move" in the first place, they still only have only one function: Create a close to mass less tunnel ships can be propelled though. Nothing about what the Geth apparently did has anything to do with that functionality. It's just BW explaining another bit of space magic by using an existing lore item... or better three of them, because it instantly sounds more plausible if you say they used three relays. If they somehow used the mass relays to suck up photons from 2.5 million light years away so that we could see them in the present.. does that mean in 2.5 million years, people will be looking up at Andromeda and it will just blink out for a second?
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 22, 2017 23:25:21 GMT
I was going to mention the Geth telescope thing.. but its been done. Has anyone seen an explanation for the Water and ice requirement in game yet? I'm referring to the pre release briefings where Suvi said they need helium 3, water, ice and element zero to rebuild the nexus. People tried to explain it with helium bound in ice, but I think there is reference in the codex to the Nexus requiring "water ice" to function... which is odd wording, but still far from water AND ice.
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Post by Dirk on Mar 22, 2017 23:33:17 GMT
One science sin I found during the prologue mission is this: when you are falling into the planet and are approaching the terminal velocity, the acceleration should be decreasing (while velocity is increasing). However during the fall scene, SAM told you that your acceleration is increasing. This makes no sense in physics because the terminal velocity is defined as the final velocity that you reach when the air drag force cancels out the gravity, i.e. when the acceleration drops to zero.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 22, 2017 23:33:44 GMT
I was going to mention the Geth telescope thing.. but its been done. Has anyone seen an explanation for the Water and ice requirement in game yet? I'm referring to the pre release briefings where Suvi said they need helium 3, water, ice and element zero to rebuild the nexus. People tried to explain it with helium bound in ice, but I think there is reference in the codex to the Nexus requiring "water ice" to function... which is odd wording, but still far from water AND ice. That is an improvement, yes. Water ice as opposed to methane ice, nitrogen ice or dry ice, etc I suppose? Just oddly phrased in the briefing I guess. Back to the weird science, I guess the whole having the technology to build and launch the initiative in the first place given the tech level of the ME2 galaxy?
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 22, 2017 23:37:05 GMT
One science sin I found during the prologue mission is this: when you are falling into the planet and are approaching the terminal velocity, the acceleration should be decreasing (while velocity is increasing). However during the fall scene, SAM told you that your acceleration is increasing. This makes no sense in physics because the terminal velocity is defined as the final velocity that you reach when the air drag force cancels out the gravity, i.e. when the acceleration drops to zero. Your argument depends on the assumption that only the gravitational pull of the planet is in effect. Not only was gravity a mess on that planet, but perhaps even other objects had their own gravitational forces on you.
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Post by Dirk on Mar 22, 2017 23:39:32 GMT
One science sin I found during the prologue mission is this: when you are falling into the planet and are approaching the terminal velocity, the acceleration should be decreasing (while velocity is increasing). However during the fall scene, SAM told you that your acceleration is increasing. This makes no sense in physics because the terminal velocity is defined as the final velocity that you reach when the air drag force cancels out the gravity, i.e. when the acceleration drops to zero. The whole problem with the planet was gravitational distortion lol I know. It's just that what SAM said are self-contradicting. You cannot reach terminal velocity if acceleration is increasing, regardless of how weird the gravity field is.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 22, 2017 23:43:03 GMT
The whole problem with the planet was gravitational distortion lol I know. It's just that what SAM said are self-contradicting. You cannot reach terminal velocity if acceleration is increasing, regardless of how weird the gravity field is. Again, perhaps you stopped accelerating due to the sudden absence of that distortion and you simply ended up at terminal velocity. It's a weak argument but it can be justified given that we don't know how those rock formations were floating to begin with, and we end up seeing gravity wells in vaults.
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Post by MassEffectTechie on Mar 22, 2017 23:52:11 GMT
Struck me when Alec Ryder mentions that Habitat 7 might have changed over the 600 years since they departed, as an explanation for the scans being different to the real thing. Unless there's some more magic going on, the 'scans' would be light travelling from Andromeda to Milky Way which would produce images which were like 2.5 million years old. So. A lot could have changed during that time.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 22, 2017 23:52:54 GMT
The thing that I can't get over, the thing that consistently blows my mind. How the geth saw Andromeda in the first place. They what? Pulled together three relays. Okay, got that. Then what? They used photons shooting down from Andromeda, okay got that. And then what, they just magically could see 2.5 million years into the future through a telescope? Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. There's a reason we say light years, because that's the time it takes light to travel that distance. What light do you think we're looking at? Magically accelerating light? WTF?! Don't be silly. The point of using relays, obviously, is to get photons from Andromeda at FTL speeds. Extend a mass-free corridor to Andromeda and the photons travel at relay speed Whether relays can do that is another matter. Aren't they supposed to only work in pairs? And how do you retarget primaries. Since the idea has real problems, why are you making up fake ones?
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Post by goishen on Mar 23, 2017 0:01:13 GMT
And all of this is beside the point that : Alec knew about AI's and how we could work better than ever, if only we were together! wut? That is just some shitty writing.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 23, 2017 0:02:09 GMT
Yeah the scan bit is one of the more inexplicable things in the game.
We all know that the real reason is "we wanted to gtfo of Milky Way but with at least some direction".
I suppose now it's established fact that the Geth can see the future.
Come to think of it... maybe they didn't see Andromeda as much as they predicted what it would be like to within an acceptable error margin. *shrug* lol
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