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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 23, 2017 0:03:41 GMT
And all of this is beside the point that : Alec knew about AI's and how we could work better than ever, if only we were together! wut? That is just some shitty writing. Ah the infamous "bad writing" argument. He didn't "know" about it as much as he was super optimistic about it (yay visionaries). He's allowed to have an opinion. In fact the videos you unlock explore this very arc.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 23, 2017 0:04:55 GMT
As for the topic, I kind of tuned out accuracy after the Codex entry for eezo differentiated between positive and negative electrical currents.
Note that mass effect fields allow for free energy. Make something light and lift it, and when you restore its mass you've created a bunch of potential energy out of thin air.
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why can't i bone cora????????????
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Post by sneakyfox on Mar 23, 2017 0:10:56 GMT
At this point in our development, where we basically ignore 95% of what composes our universe and are still speculating about its geometry, we can't say with certainty what is possible and what is impossible. Nor about how evolution works, nor space travel or mass conservation... People often forget it because technology is everywhere around us, but our science is very young. Not to be too rude with our scientists, but until now they have just scratched the surface, not deeply understood how our world works. Atheists will not like this argument, but Jesus did materialize things "from nothingness". You can believe it or not, but that at least oblige us to be very modest about what we know about the "laws of physics". The scientific community is very aware and comfortable with how much we don't understand; it's why the pursuit of knowledge still exists - you're not insulting scientists by stating the mantra they live by and motivate themselves to learn. And fields of study might need to develop further to reconcile information we don't yet understand, but this game operates from a (very shoddy and limited, because the devs appear not to understand basic fundamental principles) understanding of 21st century science, so it's only fair to critique it with the same century of understanding. Since you broight up the bible, I'll use it as an example; I'm not going to judge the people who wrote it because they didn't have access to information that didn't exist yet, but it IS fair to scrutinise those who still think it holds scientific significant or some greater understanding of the world, because they have access to far superior and more sophisticated data. You also can't judge a piece of media based on information you don't yet have access to (i.e. The science available to those living 600 years from now). You can't judge ahead or behind, so we're judging a 21st C piece of media with 21st C data. Also, evolution is the foundation of a multitude of scientific fields and has been proven to be an observed biological phenomon countless times. Academic theory that's been measured and tested with the same outcome that many times is fact. We *know* what evolution is, very clearly. You don't "believe" in evolution like you do in faith. It's a principle you understand.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 0:17:38 GMT
At this point in our development, where we basically ignore 95% of what composes our universe and are still speculating about its geometry, we can't say with certainty what is possible and what is impossible. Nor about how evolution works, nor space travel or mass conservation... People often forget it because technology is everywhere around us, but our science is very young. Not to be too rude with our scientists, but until now they have just scratched the surface, not deeply understood how our world works. Atheists will not like this argument, but Jesus did materialize things "from nothingness". You can believe it or not, but that at least oblige us to be very modest about what we know about the "laws of physics". Are you really trying to use dogmatic belief as a foundation for a critical discussion? Oh, and btw, Christian religious belief too is quite young if compared to humans as a species: 2000 years of cult history vs the 100’000 of stuttering evolution we have been subjected to upon this tiny blue planet should suggest a more… humble view on the certainty of any belief. Especially those who were used to put people on a stake and burn them alive when they disagreed with the doctrine. Just saying. That's precisely what I'm saying. Our culture is way too young to have any certainty about the biggest questions... in both religion and science.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 0:29:03 GMT
At this point in our development, where we basically ignore 95% of what composes our universe and are still speculating about its geometry, we can't say with certainty what is possible and what is impossible. Nor about how evolution works, nor space travel or mass conservation... People often forget it because technology is everywhere around us, but our science is very young. Not to be too rude with our scientists, but until now they have just scratched the surface, not deeply understood how our world works. Atheists will not like this argument, but Jesus did materialize things "from nothingness". You can believe it or not, but that at least oblige us to be very modest about what we know about the "laws of physics". The scientific community is very aware and comfortable with how much we don't understand; it's why the pursuit of knowledge still exists - you're not insulting scientists by stating the mantra they live by and motivate themselves to learn. And fields of study might need to develop further to reconcile information we don't yet understand, but this game operates from a (very shoddy and limited, because the devs appear not to understand basic fundamental principles) understanding of 21st century science, so it's only fair to critique it with the same century of understanding. Since you broight up the bible, I'll use it as an example; I'm not going to judge the people who wrote it because they didn't have access to information that didn't exist yet, but it IS fair to scrutinise those who still think it holds scientific significant or some greater understanding of the world, because they have access to far superior and more sophisticated data. You also can't judge a piece of media based on information you don't yet have access to (i.e. The science available to those living 600 years from now). You can't judge ahead or behind, so we're judging a 21st C piece of media with 21st C data. Also, evolution is the foundation of a multitude of scientific fields and has been proven to be an observed biological phenomon countless times. Academic theory that's been measured and tested with the same outcome that many times is fact. We *know* what evolution is, very clearly. You don't "believe" in evolution like you do in faith. It's a principle you understand. I don't think so. I'm aware of all the facts supporting globally the standard evolution theory. That said, several breaches have appeared these last years and it seems to be more and more contested. I'm personally convinced that there is something essential that we don't understand about how species evolove, but proofs aren't strong enough yet.
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Post by Raga on Mar 23, 2017 0:33:05 GMT
Considering the technology for the whole universe is based on magic space rocks, I don't get too upset with science nonsense. You're not really gonna get hard sci-fi in video games. For that you will need to read books for the most part.
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why can't i bone cora????????????
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Post by sneakyfox on Mar 23, 2017 0:36:20 GMT
Kesh never says the mutation in the clan arose recently. For all we know it's an ancestral allele that over time became fixed in the population (meaning the clan) through natural selection (seeing as how it increases reproduction rates, there would be fairly strong selection for it). We know that mutations like this are possible because it already happened (see ME2 and Mordin). Ah, I'm fairly rusty on ME2 lore (so thank you for that simulation point, I'd forgotten about it). I remember vaguely that Krogan mutate at a higher rate or something? I'm still a little wary about the "clan developed a mutation" thing because it IS very vague and sounds like it's something that has arisen recently. The language used made it sound like it happened shortly before leaving the Milky Way. And IIRC the Salarians monitored the krogan to make sure they didn't recover, so it being an ancestral mutation might not be viable because it likely would have been altered to stem recovery.
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Post by sneakyfox on Mar 23, 2017 0:40:58 GMT
The scientific community is very aware and comfortable with how much we don't understand; it's why the pursuit of knowledge still exists - you're not insulting scientists by stating the mantra they live by and motivate themselves to learn. And fields of study might need to develop further to reconcile information we don't yet understand, but this game operates from a (very shoddy and limited, because the devs appear not to understand basic fundamental principles) understanding of 21st century science, so it's only fair to critique it with the same century of understanding. Since you broight up the bible, I'll use it as an example; I'm not going to judge the people who wrote it because they didn't have access to information that didn't exist yet, but it IS fair to scrutinise those who still think it holds scientific significant or some greater understanding of the world, because they have access to far superior and more sophisticated data. You also can't judge a piece of media based on information you don't yet have access to (i.e. The science available to those living 600 years from now). You can't judge ahead or behind, so we're judging a 21st C piece of media with 21st C data. Also, evolution is the foundation of a multitude of scientific fields and has been proven to be an observed biological phenomon countless times. Academic theory that's been measured and tested with the same outcome that many times is fact. We *know* what evolution is, very clearly. You don't "believe" in evolution like you do in faith. It's a principle you understand. I don't think so. I'm aware of all the facts supporting globally the standard evolution theory. That said, several breaches have appeared these last years in this theory and it seems to be more and more contested. I'm personally convinced that there is something essential that we don't understand about how species evolove, but proofs aren't strong enough yet. I would be very curious to see these various breaches within the academic community (I'm not being sarcastic, I would actually like to). Do you have links to your claims? I don't see how personal doubt of its legitimacy overrides the global body of knowledge (as you put it) of a measureable biological phenomenon. The burden of proof at this point is on people to disprove evolution, not prove it.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 23, 2017 0:42:04 GMT
The scientific community is very aware and comfortable with how much we don't understand; it's why the pursuit of knowledge still exists - you're not insulting scientists by stating the mantra they live by and motivate themselves to learn. And fields of study might need to develop further to reconcile information we don't yet understand, but this game operates from a (very shoddy and limited, because the devs appear not to understand basic fundamental principles) understanding of 21st century science, so it's only fair to critique it with the same century of understanding. Since you broight up the bible, I'll use it as an example; I'm not going to judge the people who wrote it because they didn't have access to information that didn't exist yet, but it IS fair to scrutinise those who still think it holds scientific significant or some greater understanding of the world, because they have access to far superior and more sophisticated data. You also can't judge a piece of media based on information you don't yet have access to (i.e. The science available to those living 600 years from now). You can't judge ahead or behind, so we're judging a 21st C piece of media with 21st C data. Also, evolution is the foundation of a multitude of scientific fields and has been proven to be an observed biological phenomon countless times. Academic theory that's been measured and tested with the same outcome that many times is fact. We *know* what evolution is, very clearly. You don't "believe" in evolution like you do in faith. It's a principle you understand. I don't think so. I'm aware of all the facts supporting globally the standard evolution theory. That said, several breaches have appeared these last years in this theory and it seems to be more and more contested. I'm personally convinced that there is something essential that we don't understand about how species evolove, but proofs aren't strong enough yet. Let's not get any further OT here. But if you've got evidence of those breaches, links would be nice.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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XBL Gamertag: Shadow Quickpaw
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Post by Quickpaw on Mar 23, 2017 0:43:23 GMT
I was under the impression not that the transfer of SAM to Ryder was to save their life; but to save the Initiative. Alec chose to give his own life to save his child, but couldn't leave the AI without its human Pathfinder-SAM team. We see that this connection between the two is necessary in understanding and properly interfacing with Remnant AND Initiative technology. Alec gave his helmet to save Ryder's life, and SAM to save the Initiative from his loss.
That's my best theory, anyway.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Mar 23, 2017 0:50:09 GMT
I don't think so. I'm aware of all the facts supporting globally the standard evolution theory. That said, several breaches have appeared these last years in this theory and it seems to be more and more contested. I'm personally convinced that there is something essential that we don't understand about how species evolove, but proofs aren't strong enough yet. Let's not get any further OT here. But if you've got evidence of those breaches, links would be nice. It's probably best to nip this discussion in the bud. This isn't the place. But I'm being a 'junior mod' so I'll stop.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 23, 2017 0:55:36 GMT
Welcome to the world of science FICTION! Where real world science means absolutely nothing. And thereby gives the writers a free pass to come up with ANYTHING! They can do anything they want because it's "just fiction"!
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Post by edisnooM on Mar 23, 2017 1:08:50 GMT
The thing that I can't get over, the thing that consistently blows my mind. How the geth saw Andromeda in the first place. They what? Pulled together three relays. Okay, got that. Then what? They used photons shooting down from Andromeda, okay got that. And then what, they just magically could see 2.5 million years into the future through a telescope? Andromeda is 2.5 million light years away. There's a reason we say light years, because that's the time it takes light to travel that distance. What light do you think we're looking at? Magically accelerating light? WTF?! Don't be silly. The point of using relays, obviously, is to get photons from Andromeda at FTL speeds. Extend a mass-free corridor to Andromeda and the photons travel at relay speed Whether relays can do that is another matter. Aren't they supposed to only work in pairs? And how do you retarget primaries. Since the idea has real problems, why are you making up fake ones? And therein lies another question, if they could extend a mass-free corridor 2.5 million light years to Andromeda for "Near Contemporary" scans, couldn't they use that same corridor for transit of ships? As for the science sins, probably one of the most aneurysm inducing I've seen is pretty spoilery for an importantish quest. Apparently when Alec Ryder thaws out he scans for transmissions from the Milky Way, and finds three. A Human SOS, a Turian SOS, and one from Liara after the Reapers invade. Now, maybe it was supposed to have been logged while they were in transit, but it sure sounded like they were saying radio transmissions had travelled 2.5 million light years in 600 years.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Mar 23, 2017 1:25:24 GMT
Kesh, the female krogan on board the Nexus, talks about the genophage with your Ryder when prompted. What she says is something along the lines of "my clan developed a mutation that will help them resist the genophage, and underwent gene therapy while in cryo to help overcome it" For those who are not bio/science majors, there are MULTIPLE PROBLEMS WITH THIS: 1. mutations affect the individual, not an entire population - evolution happens vertically (from parent --> child) not horizontally (from sibling to sibling, friend to friend, uncle to aunt, etc). and therefore the entire clan would not all have the same mutation at the same specific locus without direct medical intervention (Kesh said there's no cure for the genophage that they know of, so medical intervention is unlikely) 2. almost all mutations are not helpful to individuals (people's genes mutate all the time, almost always without any real benefit - advantageous ones are rare and entirely dependent on environment), and a mutation in an extremely short period of time in a small population that almost never reproduces is HIGHLY HIGHLY unlikely. Non-mutation adaption would also be extremely slow given that selective pressures only work on populations that produce children, and if krogan almost never have children, it would take them millions upon millions of years to naturally build resistance to it. 3. mutations are the slowest form of evolution, because again, they ONLY affect the individual and potentially their offspring. 4. mutations just don't WORK THAT WAY5. they would not be able to notice a change in offspring viability without every clan woman getting pregnant thousands upon thousands of times (since viability is 1 in 1000) in the span of the fourteen months they've been on the Nexus, which seems unlikely to me 6. Apparently gene therapy isn't even possible with krogan (from the wiki here: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Genophage)so... yeah. Sci-fi will always be rule-bendy (and breaky), but this is literally just false in every conceivable way, unless krogan genes work entirely differently than humans' (and given that they discuss genetic in a very human-oriented way, I doubt this). Ok, I'm going to stop you right there for a second. I am actually a microbiologist, so I know a thing or two about mutation, and there are a few critical flaws in your argument. 1. You are absolutely correct that mutation affects and individual and is not spread laterally. What you stated, though, is that it is hereditary and thus passed on. What you failed to account for is that this mutation could have been passed on for a long time now, and thus would now be in many of the Nakmor clan's members. This is exactly the kind of mutation that would be selected for because it increases viable births, and thus those births will have this mutation. So if this had been happening for the past 800 years, it's possible that this mutation could be present in most of clan Nakmor. It's not like they sprouted wings or anything. It's just viable births. 2. Yes, advantageous mutations are rare. However, this is an advantageous mutation, so I'm not sure what your point is. It's not impossible for it to have happened, and according to the lore now it has, so....yeah. Secondly, we don't know a lot about Krogan genetics. How many chromosomes? What type of proofreading do they have? Etc. They could have a potential propensity for mutation due to their genetic makeup. That's just something we can't account for, but might be completely true. 3. Mutations normally don't work that fast, but take this into consideration. Females with viable births are selected for heavily in Krogan society. Females with non-viable births become Shaman or go get themselves killed (or other things), so this would be a situation where the mutation would be heavily selected for. So if this mutation has been being selected for for 800 years, then it's totally possible for it to have "spread" throughout this clan. 4. Mutations can work this way. The most able to survive, survive. Especially when the advantage to the mutation is 40 times that of non-mutants. 5. In normal species, yes the mutation would take a long time to figure into the population. But with 1000 attempted births every year per female, with 40 surviving (4% of 1000), that's a large population boom, especially if they do that every year. And live for a long, long time. 6. Gene therapy was not a viable counter to the genophage virus, however that's not what the gene therapy done in Cryo was doing. It was enhancing the resistant gene that made the virus ineffective. I don't know by what means the gene did that, but there ya go. Somehow this mutation affected the virus. Remember, too, that this could be totally possible because Mordin himself had to work on a modified virus to overcome Krogan adaptation from just 1,455 years ago. The only thing that really bothered me about their explanation is that in Cryo there should be little to know genetic activity, otherwise the being would age. So I don't think gene therapy would work in Cryo. But the mutation bit it totally legit.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aznricepuff on Mar 23, 2017 1:34:56 GMT
As for the topic, I kind of tuned out accuracy after the Codex entry for eezo differentiated between positive and negative electrical currents. I just always took that to mean polarity - i.e. you're applying current to an asymmetric system and positive/negative denotes direction of flow. That being said, I'm 90% sure that what really happened was the devs just forgot the difference between electric current and electric charge.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 23, 2017 1:35:37 GMT
Considering the technology for the whole universe is based on magic space rocks, I don't get too upset with science nonsense. You're not really gonna get hard sci-fi in video games. For that you will need to read books for the most part. Consistent magic really isn't too much to ask for in sci-fi, though.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 23, 2017 1:58:49 GMT
Don't be silly. The point of using relays, obviously, is to get photons from Andromeda at FTL speeds. Extend a mass-free corridor to Andromeda and the photons travel at relay speed And therein lies another question, if they could extend a mass-free corridor 2.5 million light years to Andromeda for "Near Contemporary" scans, couldn't they use that same corridor for transit of ships? Well, that one can be handwaved in the short term. Standard comm buoys can transmit data but not ships. However, it would count as proof-of-concept for extending relay transit to intergalactic range, yeah.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 23, 2017 2:15:21 GMT
The only thing that really bothered me about their explanation is that in Cryo there should be little to know genetic activity, otherwise the being would age. So I don't think gene therapy would work in Cryo. But the mutation bit it totally legit. It wouldn't be too hard to wake up individual krogan, a few at a time, for a year or two to receive therapy.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: GVArcian
XBL Gamertag: GVArcian
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Post by Arcian on Mar 23, 2017 2:34:10 GMT
I haven't gotten into it, so I literally skimmed over everything to post the one Mass Effect science sin that grinds my gears (and teeth) every. Freaking. Time. I can deal with handwaving, mistakes, lack of clarity about how it works, whatever. I don't do well with blatant, baldfaced misinformation (at least shroud your lies behind a soothing cloak of technobabble, for decency's sake). "Humans are unusually genetically diverse." From Mordin, of all people. On his loyalty mission in two. Bull. Pucky.That is literally the exact opposite of the truth. For a large mammal, we're actually very homogenous. Unusually so. Bonus points for using the blatant lie as a plot point. I'm sorry. I just wanted to rant about that again. I'm a bad person.-exists thread sheepishly- Super MAC is a proponent of human exceptionalism. A fucking speciesist is what he is. How else do we explain his obsession with Cerberus? Are you really trying to use dogmatic belief as a foundation for a critical discussion? Oh, and btw, Christian religious belief too is quite young if compared to humans as a species: 2000 years of cult history vs the 100’000 of stuttering evolution we have been subjected to upon this tiny blue planet should suggest a more… humble view on the certainty of any belief. Especially those who were used to put people on a stake and burn them alive when they disagreed with the doctrine. Just saying. That's precisely what I'm saying. Our culture is way too young to have any certainty about such complicated things... in both religion and science. Don't be that guy. Religion is 100% certified bullshit. It contradicts itself more than Donald Trump. The only thing that really bothered me about their explanation is that in Cryo there should be little to know genetic activity, otherwise the being would age. So I don't think gene therapy would work in Cryo. But the mutation bit it totally legit. It wouldn't be too hard to wake up individual krogan, a few at a time, for a year or two to receive therapy. Sure, but that's not what Kesh says. She explicitly states they received the gene therapy while in stasis.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Mar 23, 2017 2:45:14 GMT
Considering the technology for the whole universe is based on magic space rocks, I don't get too upset with science nonsense. You're not really gonna get hard sci-fi in video games. For that you will need to read books for the most part. Consistent magic really isn't too much to ask for in sci-fi, though. Just internal consistency, whatever the lore is. You cannot introduce new science without backing it up if your fiction has thus far depended on backed up or at the very least explained fictional science. ME1 had consistency because the twist with the Conduit was an actual reveal that connected two known informations in the plot. ME3 severed its consistency as soon as it moved the Citadel to Earth in 3 lines of dialogue with the Vendetta VI and afterwards introduced a random beam of energy that Reapers used (which we went with because it's strange Reaper stuff) and then the Starchild. So, just to add to Iakus's argument, yes, you need to be clear and consistent about your lore in the story. You cannot make up BS unless you want to drive away the audience and kill their willing suspension of disbelief.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Mar 23, 2017 2:58:09 GMT
The only thing that really bothered me about their explanation is that in Cryo there should be little to know genetic activity, otherwise the being would age. So I don't think gene therapy would work in Cryo. But the mutation bit it totally legit. It wouldn't be too hard to wake up individual krogan, a few at a time, for a year or two to receive therapy. Good point. Depends how long the therapy takes to be effective, but I could see that. Could even keep them in a mild stasis for a while, since they have long lives, keeping them under but still metabolically somewhat active.
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Post by mordrek on Mar 23, 2017 3:21:20 GMT
Eezo, that magical space rock that makes everything possible.
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Post by jastall on Mar 23, 2017 3:30:15 GMT
I was under the impression not that the transfer of SAM to Ryder was to save their life; but to save the Initiative. Alec chose to give his own life to save his child, but couldn't leave the AI without its human Pathfinder-SAM team. We see that this connection between the two is necessary in understanding and properly interfacing with Remnant AND Initiative technology. Alec gave his helmet to save Ryder's life, and SAM to save the Initiative from his loss. That's my best theory, anyway. That was my interpretation too. The helm was enough to save Ryder's life, but Papa knew he was doomed so he unlocked SAM's ability to change the PC's physiology. It just turns out that, apparently, doing that during a moment of stress in the middle of a hostile planet had unforeseen consequences. Really, so far I've not seen science as blindingly stupid as the Lazarus Project, or plot devices as facepalm-inducing as the Crucible. The worst part was probably the Geth Uber-Telescope of +12 to handwaving, but that's still mostly background info.
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Post by warbaby2 on Mar 23, 2017 3:43:11 GMT
People tried to explain it with helium bound in ice, but I think there is reference in the codex to the Nexus requiring "water ice" to function... which is odd wording, but still far from water AND ice. That is an improvement, yes. Water ice as opposed to methane ice, nitrogen ice or dry ice, etc I suppose? Just oddly phrased in the briefing I guess. Back to the weird science, I guess the whole having the technology to build and launch the initiative in the first place given the tech level of the ME2 galaxy? Update: I actually found a helium ice field while scanning planets, so both options could have been possible.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 10:42:32 GMT
I don't think so. I'm aware of all the facts supporting globally the standard evolution theory. That said, several breaches have appeared these last years in this theory and it seems to be more and more contested. I'm personally convinced that there is something essential that we don't understand about how species evolove, but proofs aren't strong enough yet. I would be very curious to see these various breaches within the academic community (I'm not being sarcastic, I would actually like to). Do you have links to your claims? I don't see how personal doubt of its legitimacy overrides the global body of knowledge (as you put it) of a measureable biological phenomenon. The burden of proof at this point is on people to disprove evolution, not prove it. See notably works considered as "neo-lamarckists". To summarize, it seems that epigenetic phenomena seem to gain more and more importance in the new synthetic theory of the evolution. I think it's crazy to reject the evolution theory but it is also way too much to say "we know how it works". My call in this thread is a one towards more humility. I haven't gotten into it, so I literally skimmed over everything to post the one Mass Effect science sin that grinds my gears (and teeth) every. Freaking. Time. I can deal with handwaving, mistakes, lack of clarity about how it works, whatever. I don't do well with blatant, baldfaced misinformation (at least shroud your lies behind a soothing cloak of technobabble, for decency's sake). "Humans are unusually genetically diverse." From Mordin, of all people. On his loyalty mission in two. Bull. Pucky.That is literally the exact opposite of the truth. For a large mammal, we're actually very homogenous. Unusually so. Bonus points for using the blatant lie as a plot point. I'm sorry. I just wanted to rant about that again. I'm a bad person.-exists thread sheepishly- Super MAC is a proponent of human exceptionalism. A fucking speciesist is what he is. How else do we explain his obsession with Cerberus? That's precisely what I'm saying. Our culture is way too young to have any certainty about such complicated things... in both religion and science. Don't be that guy. Religion is 100% certified bullshit. It contradicts itself more than Donald Trump. It wouldn't be too hard to wake up individual krogan, a few at a time, for a year or two to receive therapy. Sure, but that's not what Kesh says. She explicitly states they received the gene therapy while in stasis. How despising and presomptuous. It sounds very immature to me.
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