Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Iakus
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iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Mar 25, 2017 1:02:47 GMT
How many reapers are there? Hundreds? Ballpark? About 20,000 Sovereign-class Reapers. And likely many, many times that in destroyers. Unknown. As I said, the network has never been fully explored. They managed their first cycle without ANY Reapers. And built from there. Who's to say they couldn't do the same thing elsewhere? For that matter, whatever happened to the machines the Catalyst used to mulch the Leviathans? They have been. The Leviathan of Dis is a billion years old, and it's not the oldest Reaper. Although the Reapers just hanging out in dark space was conjecture, as was the idea that without the dark space relay, they were trapped (they weren't) Not feasible if you are mortal. But an immortal machine with a directive to fulfill (however illogical)? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_convergenceBesides which, we now know relays can be re-purposed into ftl telescopes, they don't have to go anywhere to explore a system.
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SwobyJ
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 25, 2017 5:24:04 GMT
Milky Way with Reapers was a contained situation, albeit meant to be on a scale that is only barely fathomable to us. They used the Milky Way as a process and an experiment, continuing Leviathan programming that provides them their purpose. Their cycle had continued for longer then we could comprehend. Maybe there's an exact number, but the possibly evolving form of the cycle and lengths of them and the simple *weight* of the cycles are never going to be well understood by us. Basically, while all this was happening and refining (in whatever sense, even in the sense of the slow development of the Crucible), the rest of existence did its thing. Before it, was a whole Leviathan system of their limited perspective, albeit also a cosmic one. Within their domain, they witnessed all sorts of things, but all fitting the pattern of their thrall civilizations (Note: They wouldn't be directly controlling many - the orbs are not that useful) building synthetics that threaten extinction of those civilizations. The Leviathans likely intervened every time and would win, but at cost of many or all of the affected civilization. They didn't seem to at all bother with anything close to peace, but we can understand that they have alright reason for that if they only kept on seeing synthetic-organic chaos. The Reaping cycle, from this viewpoint, may be considered an arguable improvement, as it would allow civilizations to be unimpeded for tens of thousands of years, until (presumably with ME3 lore) they reached the 'apex', the point that synthetic intelligences start being created. Make enough sense? Andromeda doesn't have this. But it is in the same universe. I'm going to start spoiler tagging, and please note that I have limited exposure to MEA's story so far: Kett are biosynthetic in some way. Remnant tech has a sort of biosynthetic element. Angaran have a reveal of being something of an artificial creation. All of this, in my opinion, alludes to the outcome of Andromeda still being along the lines of what the Reapers assert, even if beyond the bounds of what they'd expect in their programming. Perhaps native organics to Andromeda (as the Angaran are NOT that) indeed died to synthetics and we only face the 'Remnant'? Perhaps the native organics 'ascended' into another state? What really are the Kett, with the major enemy unit name being 'Ascendant'? (YOU WILL BE ASCENDED) In another thread - what's the deal with the 'ghost' terminology in some of MEA - its marketing and writing? Is this a clue? Basically, did what the Reapers assert would happen - happen? Long ago? And in this corner of the galaxy, we're seeing a form of the result? That the story doesn't end after extinction of organics? Syntheics could create organics. Organics could replicate synthetic copies. Organics could merge with synthetics in a way differently than the Reapers' monstrosities. The Milky Way either fights to stay as alive organics or something else happens, while the Andromeda Initiative are organics that seem to be on a more gradual pace to taking on higher tech. What will be their outcome, in a realm that isn't controlled by the Reapers? We can take clues in this game and onward (DLC, next gmae), in the stories of Kett, Angaran, Remnant, and I wonder if it basically comes to the conclusion that while you can fight the dangerous/evil robots, they're always going to be a part of this setting, and outside of the conflict, you're going to have to at *least deal with them*. Not just pew pew, but other ways. The cosmos has evolved too much, as the 'real world', for us to remain 'sheltered' in the creepy protection of the Reapers. It is time to 'grow up'. And sorry to people who thought or wanted Mass Effect to not focus on AI again (especially if you thought that the trilogy wasn't really about that -and I admit I somewhat think that, as it focused so much on stuff like gang wars and whatever), but what I'm getting at is... that's what a lot of what Mass Effect is. We're only shifting to a new perspective with the story of the Heleus cluster, a way to find new knowledge on what 'AI' is and can be. EDIT: To OP - The closest answer is #3. We're only seeing a corner of the galaxy and teases of what is the larger story of what occurred. Whatever result, it meant in Heleus specifically that there's only abandoned vaults, the presence of angarans, and some sort of big empire out there of kett. All of this smacks of a ruined 'land', one which is the aftermath of something that I wouldn't be surprised that the 'cycles' of the Reapers kept 'us' from feeling the full brunt of. That said, it is weird that nothing ever hit the Milky Way. On that, I can think of a lot of things. Were the Reapers 'protecting' everyone? Did they have to intervene on some things sometimes? Might there be reason to go back to the Milky Way at some point in the series to address some larger issue? Perhaps threats did try to breach the Milky Way but the Reapers warded them off - hell, could the writers even make it so the reason why we see the Reapers 'spread thin' (though trying to be as imposing as possible) is because they LOSE units to greater threats, all adding to their perception of being our salvation (not just in transforming civilizations into Reapers)? There's story for Bioware to tell if they want, but I can understand MEA, SPECIFICALLY, staying far away from Reapers (and largely away from other things, even if there's bits throughout the game that keep making me think it won't stay that way). EDIT: I think it helps if you try to draw rough parallels between DA and ME. These often have similar enough employees, writers, and visions. Maybe some disagree but I see plenty similar enough to compare. IMO aspects of the Reapers may be similar to the Chantry and its Circles, if only on very broad themes of order and chaos, and containing and controlling what may otherwise run roughshod. If we're 'leaving' the Reapers, the matters that the Reapers addressed still don't go away. I so far disagree that the story of the trilogy doesn't apply. I think it does, and I think we're going to see a whole game or multiple ones that more-or-less add indirect context to the oh-so-disliked ME3 ending.
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Post by darkstorne on Apr 1, 2017 10:12:37 GMT
Well you've got to consider why the Leviathan created the reapers. To resolve the problem that organic life would always create synthetic life, which would then rebel leading to conflict between organic and synthetic life. Why shouldn't this be true in Andromeda also? Organics creating synthetics which then rebel? Only in Andromeda, there was no Leviathan or reapers. So we can only assume that the 'natural' course of events happened. Given that the Leviathan tried to stop this in the Milky Way, I'd argue the consequences in Andromeda would be far worse than reaper harvesting. Exactly what would happen is unknown, but it's possible that organics and synthetics would wipe each other out completely, setting back all life to pre-microbial form. Or maybe synthetics would win and then something else unexpected happens. In any case, there are possible explanations for the current situation in Andromeda, so I wouldn't say there's a plot hole here. But whether these are the most likely outcomes is uncertain. I'd say more 'narrative convenience' than a glaring plot hole. Milky Way with Reapers was a contained situation, albeit meant to be on a scale that is only barely fathomable to us. They used the Milky Way as a process and an experiment, continuing Leviathan programming that provides them their purpose. Their cycle had continued for longer then we could comprehend. Maybe there's an exact number, but the possibly evolving form of the cycle and lengths of them and the simple *weight* of the cycles are never going to be well understood by us. Basically, while all this was happening and refining (in whatever sense, even in the sense of the slow development of the Crucible), the rest of existence did its thing. Before it, was a whole Leviathan system of their limited perspective, albeit also a cosmic one. Within their domain, they witnessed all sorts of things, but all fitting the pattern of their thrall civilizations (Note: They wouldn't be directly controlling many - the orbs are not that useful) building synthetics that threaten extinction of those civilizations. The Leviathans likely intervened every time and would win, but at cost of many or all of the affected civilization. They didn't seem to at all bother with anything close to peace, but we can understand that they have alright reason for that if they only kept on seeing synthetic-organic chaos. The Reaping cycle, from this viewpoint, may be considered an arguable improvement, as it would allow civilizations to be unimpeded for tens of thousands of years, until (presumably with ME3 lore) they reached the 'apex', the point that synthetic intelligences start being created. Make enough sense? Andromeda doesn't have this. But it is in the same universe. I'm going to start spoiler tagging, and please note that I have limited exposure to MEA's story so far: Kett are biosynthetic in some way. Remnant tech has a sort of biosynthetic element. Angaran have a reveal of being something of an artificial creation. All of this, in my opinion, alludes to the outcome of Andromeda still being along the lines of what the Reapers assert, even if beyond the bounds of what they'd expect in their programming. Perhaps native organics to Andromeda (as the Angaran are NOT that) indeed died to synthetics and we only face the 'Remnant'? Perhaps the native organics 'ascended' into another state? What really are the Kett, with the major enemy unit name being 'Ascendant'? (YOU WILL BE ASCENDED) In another thread - what's the deal with the 'ghost' terminology in some of MEA - its marketing and writing? Is this a clue? Basically, did what the Reapers assert would happen - happen? Long ago? And in this corner of the galaxy, we're seeing a form of the result? That the story doesn't end after extinction of organics? Syntheics could create organics. Organics could replicate synthetic copies. Organics could merge with synthetics in a way differently than the Reapers' monstrosities. The Milky Way either fights to stay as alive organics or something else happens, while the Andromeda Initiative are organics that seem to be on a more gradual pace to taking on higher tech. What will be their outcome, in a realm that isn't controlled by the Reapers? We can take clues in this game and onward (DLC, next gmae), in the stories of Kett, Angaran, Remnant, and I wonder if it basically comes to the conclusion that while you can fight the dangerous/evil robots, they're always going to be a part of this setting, and outside of the conflict, you're going to have to at *least deal with them*. Not just pew pew, but other ways. The cosmos has evolved too much, as the 'real world', for us to remain 'sheltered' in the creepy protection of the Reapers. It is time to 'grow up'. And sorry to people who thought or wanted Mass Effect to not focus on AI again (especially if you thought that the trilogy wasn't really about that -and I admit I somewhat think that, as it focused so much on stuff like gang wars and whatever), but what I'm getting at is... that's what a lot of what Mass Effect is. We're only shifting to a new perspective with the story of the Heleus cluster, a way to find new knowledge on what 'AI' is and can be. EDIT: To OP - The closest answer is #3. We're only seeing a corner of the galaxy and teases of what is the larger story of what occurred. Whatever result, it meant in Heleus specifically that there's only abandoned vaults, the presence of angarans, and some sort of big empire out there of kett. All of this smacks of a ruined 'land', one which is the aftermath of something that I wouldn't be surprised that the 'cycles' of the Reapers kept 'us' from feeling the full brunt of. That said, it is weird that nothing ever hit the Milky Way. On that, I can think of a lot of things. Were the Reapers 'protecting' everyone? Did they have to intervene on some things sometimes? Might there be reason to go back to the Milky Way at some point in the series to address some larger issue? Perhaps threats did try to breach the Milky Way but the Reapers warded them off - hell, could the writers even make it so the reason why we see the Reapers 'spread thin' (though trying to be as imposing as possible) is because they LOSE units to greater threats, all adding to their perception of being our salvation (not just in transforming civilizations into Reapers)? There's story for Bioware to tell if they want, but I can understand MEA, SPECIFICALLY, staying far away from Reapers (and largely away from other things, even if there's bits throughout the game that keep making me think it won't stay that way). EDIT: I think it helps if you try to draw rough parallels between DA and ME. These often have similar enough employees, writers, and visions. Maybe some disagree but I see plenty similar enough to compare. IMO aspects of the Reapers may be similar to the Chantry and its Circles, if only on very broad themes of order and chaos, and containing and controlling what may otherwise run roughshod. If we're 'leaving' the Reapers, the matters that the Reapers addressed still don't go away. I so far disagree that the story of the trilogy doesn't apply. I think it does, and I think we're going to see a whole game or multiple ones that more-or-less add indirect context to the oh-so-disliked ME3 ending. Now these, I like. That would fit really nicely into the whole organic/synthetic conflict thing Mass Effect has going on without re-using the Reapers, and at the same time raise questions like "Were the Reapers actually a force for good for the most part?"
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blaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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blaw
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by blaw on Apr 1, 2017 10:52:36 GMT
Well, to everyone wondering why go to Andromeda if the majority of the milky way is uncharted: There is a sidequest dealing with this issue. Whether you like the answer to it or not is another thing (I liked it)
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