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Post by Yaslana on Apr 4, 2017 10:13:38 GMT
DA2 had lots of urchins. There were lots of kids in DAO too. In ME123 there wasn't a single child. DAI hat OGB - but lets be honest, his model was a mess. Esp. in cutscenes where he was smaller here, bigger there. Still disappointed we didn't get kids in MEA though, too. At least they could have shown us the FHB, not just the sound of the baby crying. Also, there really should have been Angara kids. Lots of them. And at least a few milky way kids, b/c from the what we saw, some of them should be awake. Remember the Asari ark. There was data pad stuff there that was about trying to keep the children safe and stuff. Indeed, the Asari ark mentions children. But if we can't have more than 2 Asari faces in the game, we're definitely not going to see Asari children. Although I have to wonder what their definition of Asari children even look like. In ME1 Liara said among Asari she was barely considered more than a child. Yeah, the fact that there was no variation for Asari faces was really weird. I mean its obviously their favorite race? They could have given them at least all female human faces painted blue. Also, we still dont know a lot about Asari reproduction, besides the melding fact. But I guess they would at least start tiny like all babies. For Liara I think it was more about mental age then physical age. At least for the Korgan we know now that they lay eggs. How this works with the way Mordin explains the genofage, I dont know, but hey.... A lot about the genofage never made sense.
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Post by shechinah on Apr 4, 2017 10:16:04 GMT
Indeed, the Asari ark mentions children. But if we can't have more than 2 Asari faces in the game, we're definitely not going to see Asari children. Although I have to wonder what their definition of Asari children even look like. In ME1 Liara said among Asari she was barely considered more than a child.If I recall correctly, she meant that as in she was barely considered more than a child in age in comparison to the other, older asari in her field and that was why her controversial theories were taken serious. Basically, how a person in their early twenties may seem younger in comparison to someone in their nineties.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 4, 2017 10:16:14 GMT
DA2 had lots of urchins. There were lots of kids in DAO too. In ME123 there wasn't a single child. DAI hat OGB - but lets be honest, his model was a mess. Esp. in cutscenes where he was smaller here, bigger there. Still disappointed we didn't get kids in MEA though, too. At least they could have shown us the FHB, not just the sound of the baby crying. Also, there really should have been Angara kids. Lots of them. And at least a few milky way kids, b/c from the what we saw, some of them should be awake. Remember the Asari ark. There was data pad stuff there that was about trying to keep the children safe and stuff. Although I have to wonder what their definition of Asari children even look like. In ME1 Liara said among Asari she was barely considered more than a child. I suppose as long as they keep growing they are considered children. Height growth I mean, not asari matriarch kind of growth. "Teenager" period covers entire Maiden phase probably.
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Post by Soulforge on Apr 4, 2017 10:36:01 GMT
Yeah, I'm just imagining them taking the nightmare route SWTOR did with scaled down adult bodies with a different face. Except in this case, the non-Peebee face would somehow be there too.
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Post by raikas on Apr 4, 2017 15:56:36 GMT
Considering all the problems with the facial and body animations in the game, I'm glad we didn't see kids. It would just be one more thing to be distracted by. I was satisfied that there were mentions of them existing so that it didn't just seem like something that the writers forgot. In ME123 there wasn't a single child. There was one in ME3 - the kid Shep sees in the opening and then dreams of for the rest of the game/that becomes the voice of the reapers. Weirdly proportioned so that he had toddler features on a 9-year-old's height.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 4, 2017 16:01:02 GMT
Actual reason? They didn't have time or didn't want to model any... not even for the Angara, where they would have made sense. This game had extremely few actual character assets, be it NPC or monsters... for most of it, they simply invented lore reasons.
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Post by roseofquartz on Apr 4, 2017 16:06:27 GMT
I wrote a thread about children in the game weeks before the game came out hoping we would have some. I was a little disappointed to at least not see some angara children but I'm glad Bioware explains the reasons for no children and no infants through multiple sources. The side quest with the first born in Andromeda was pretty cool though what was the reason for no angaran children? Meta reason, children take up extra resources to make. And ... well... they apparently didn't even have the resources to give Asari more then one face model or Turians their historic face markings. So you do the math.
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Post by roseofquartz on Apr 4, 2017 16:07:59 GMT
Actual reason? They didn't have time or didn't want to model any... not even for the Angara, where they would have made sense. This game had extremely few actual character assets, be it NPC or monsters... for most of it, they simply invented lore reasons. It's actually kind of sad how few character models or resources there seem to be. Like, okay, not every NPC needs to be unique, I get that. but still, you had resources from the old games. I get it's not the same engine, but it still feels... idk, lazy?
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 4, 2017 16:15:01 GMT
Actual reason? They didn't have time or didn't want to model any... not even for the Angara, where they would have made sense. This game had extremely few actual character assets, be it NPC or monsters... for most of it, they simply invented lore reasons. It's actually kind of sad how few character models or resources there seem to be. Like, okay, not every NPC needs to be unique, I get that. but still, you had resources from the old games. I get it's not the same engine, but it still feels... idk, lazy? I'd say halfassed... like the whole game, really. So much of it was done with obvious templates and reused assets, if it wasn't for the open world planets, it would be worse then DA2... outpost buildings, Kett structures, Remnant structures, monsters, gear,... almost nothing is a unique model. I mean, remember the remnant drive core? It was literally just a thick remnant cover model with two of those data nodes slapped on top of it.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 4, 2017 16:36:41 GMT
Only bioware game that featured children on a regular basis this last era of bioware games was DAO. Even if they add a sense of realism to the world I don't find it having a negative impact on the game not having them.
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Post by Yaslana on Apr 4, 2017 17:11:35 GMT
Considering all the problems with the facial and body animations in the game, I'm glad we didn't see kids. It would just be one more thing to be distracted by. I was satisfied that there were mentions of them existing so that it didn't just seem like something that the writers forgot. In ME123 there wasn't a single child. There was one in ME3 - the kid Shep sees in the opening and then dreams of for the rest of the game/that becomes the voice of the reapers. Weirdly proportioned so that he had toddler features on a 9-year-old's height. The Starchild does not exist. Like Jacob. He doesn't exist either. And the human version of the Starchild is just a weird dream. That never happened XD There are no children in ME3. (Actually I totally forgot that little brat.) Also, regarding the problems with animations, I hear you. Tbh, I'm just happy, they finally let the turian and krogan women leave the homeworlds. So I can do without children, for now. I still hope we get them in future games though.
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Post by Raga on Apr 4, 2017 18:10:35 GMT
Don't really care. I don't really like children so their absence has never been an issue for me, especially because they frequently get used in hamfisted plotlines I'm supposed to care about but don't (shuttle kid dying in ME3, your son in Fallout 4, etc.) Inasmuch as there might be children in the game, I would be much more interested to see alien ones than human ones.
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Post by sdzald on Apr 4, 2017 18:51:27 GMT
But Raga it is not really about if you like or dislike them. In any human society in all kinds of settings kids are about. Yet no matter where we go, to include alien cities we see NO children. You don't have to make them part of the story but by not having ANY around, dare I say it, it breaks immersion. It just feels like something is not right and I finally put my finger on it this weekend. No rug rats getting into things, making rug rat noise etc.
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Post by Gilsa on Apr 4, 2017 19:37:33 GMT
Hummm that is really odd because children can be very productive and in fact until very recently they helped with all kinds of family work, and still do in many. There is a reason there is 3 months a year off in public schools in the summer, family's needed the kids home to help. I just can NOT conceive how you could convince a mass of people to work and be good citizens while their children were kept frozen. I have 3 daughters, there is NO way I would agree to work in that system without first having my kids with me. They are the very fabric of our society and that crosses all human cultural boundaries. Eh...you know the people still in stasis aren't being harmed, right? They were safely asleep for over 600 years. Staying asleep for a few more years while food supplies are established is actually safer for them (I mean, you remember that when you-as-Ryder first arrive on the Nexus, you are told that there was a very real fear of starving to death, right?) I imagine that if you hadn't agreed up front to the terms of who is thawed when, then you wouldn't have been allowed into the initiative in the first place. They would have prioritized people who understood -- at least in theory -- that they might have to spend a year or two missing their families until it is safe to bring them out of cryo. All that said, I think the real reason you don't see children in this game is because the models weren't created (as others have said). DAI didn't have any random villager children, either. Just pretend they are roaming around somewhere, if it bothers you that much. I think it would have been cute to see some little Angaran running around, but for me personally there are other issues they need to fix that are more important for immersion and quality-of-life while playing. There is a little easter egg that I think is amusing, though. On the Nexus radio, you can occasionally hear that officials are debating on a standardized curriculum for Andromeda children, and that the asari are happy to wait out the others until they get their way (essentially...the wording is different). Right, it was clear there was chaos from the start, the rationing and the mutiny. The first scene with Vetra has her negotiating with Ben to move his child to the front of the cryo thaw list in order for him to sign off on the Tempest departing with the supplies that Addison had wanted a detailed report on. That guy really missed his son, but the child was considered non-essential. It emphasized the crappy situation everyone was in and underscored how crucial it was for the Pathfinder to do his/her job.
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Post by canuckgamer on Apr 4, 2017 19:42:38 GMT
I have no doubt we will see children in the next game.
The entire focus on Gil's side mission was children, I was asked on Eos if I think Children should be taught Milky Way history at a school they plan to build, you chart worlds so they can be included in a model that will be used in schools.
This game was about getting their and laying foundation. The next game will touch base on a lot of these little situations. I have no doubt I will be able to travel to Eos and see how my colony has grown and step foot into the school which will either teach or not teach Milky Way history based on what I said. You will encounter children, probably including the first child born.
The only concession I will make is that it would have made sense to have seen more Angara children, but then again, how do they reproduce? Do they mature quickly, given their memories can transfer over time is their a genetic memory component? I would be interested to see more addressed with the Angara.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2017 19:46:08 GMT
I can give it a pass for two reasons. First it is mentioned in dialogue several times, so they atleast had children as part of the world building from a dialogue perspective. Two - The game has other severe issues that needed to be fixed and still hasn't been fixed. That said if there is ever DLC/Sequel this needs to be a thing.
The reason we haven't seen this in many years is because Bioware is not using their time and resources right. Even in DA:I we only had Kieran, and he looks weird. Like a scale down of the Inquisitiors body. A place like the Hinterlands that was filled with refugees should've had children running around.
The Witcher 3 uses the same 3 - 4 models for children, but with smart placement and lack of focus on faces it works. That is all you need to make this work.
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Post by sdzald on Apr 4, 2017 19:55:58 GMT
Eh...you know the people still in stasis aren't being harmed, right? They were safely asleep for over 600 years. Staying asleep for a few more years while food supplies are established is actually safer for them (I mean, you remember that when you-as-Ryder first arrive on the Nexus, you are told that there was a very real fear of starving to death, right?) I imagine that if you hadn't agreed up front to the terms of who is thawed when, then you wouldn't have been allowed into the initiative in the first place. They would have prioritized people who understood -- at least in theory -- that they might have to spend a year or two missing their families until it is safe to bring them out of cryo. All that said, I think the real reason you don't see children in this game is because the models weren't created (as others have said). DAI didn't have any random villager children, either. Just pretend they are roaming around somewhere, if it bothers you that much. I think it would have been cute to see some little Angaran running around, but for me personally there are other issues they need to fix that are more important for immersion and quality-of-life while playing. There is a little easter egg that I think is amusing, though. On the Nexus radio, you can occasionally hear that officials are debating on a standardized curriculum for Andromeda children, and that the asari are happy to wait out the others until they get their way (essentially...the wording is different). Right, it was clear there was chaos from the start, the rationing and the mutiny. The first scene with Vetra has her negotiating with Ben to move his child to the front of the cryo thaw list in order for him to sign off on the Tempest departing with the supplies that Addison had wanted a detailed report on. That guy really missed his son, but the child was considered non-essential. It emphasized the crappy situation everyone was in and underscored how crucial it was for the Pathfinder to do his/her job. See this is what I am talking about, the very nature of knowing your kids are on the Nexus yet they won't bring them out would cause so much unrest there would be a total break down. For me the story can NOT explain away why there are NONE, to include the one you released to get the Tempest released, you know there would have been others, so where are they? The answer of course is in Bowares inability to add them and keep their crappy engine from being worse then it already is. It is the same reason that all characters are the same size and humanoid, that all buildings look the same, that all mobs look the same, that all plant life looks the same. When you stand back form the game you see very little variety in anything. What is really sad is with that small variety they still couldn't get animations right.
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 5, 2017 0:09:59 GMT
Apart from Clem in the Walking Dead, there never seems to be any likable children in games...partly because writing children seems to be writers least favorite type of character.
Add to that the extra time/resources and any possible controversy that crazy overreactive people might have because this is a game that features gore/violence/sex AND has children therefore it clearly is marketed for children...
Just not worth it most of the time.
Good riddance I say, kids are overrated.
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Post by mrobnoxiousuk on Apr 5, 2017 0:29:43 GMT
Right, it was clear there was chaos from the start, the rationing and the mutiny. The first scene with Vetra has her negotiating with Ben to move his child to the front of the cryo thaw list in order for him to sign off on the Tempest departing with the supplies that Addison had wanted a detailed report on. That guy really missed his son, but the child was considered non-essential. It emphasized the crappy situation everyone was in and underscored how crucial it was for the Pathfinder to do his/her job. See this is what I am talking about, the very nature of knowing your kids are on the Nexus yet they won't bring them out would cause so much unrest there would be a total break down. For me the story can NOT explain away why there are NONE, to include the one you released to get the Tempest released, you know there would have been others, so where are they? The answer of course is in Bowares inability to add them and keep their crappy engine from being worse then it already is. It is the same reason that all characters are the same size and humanoid, that all buildings look the same, that all mobs look the same, that all plant life looks the same. When you stand back form the game you see very little variety in anything. What is really sad is with that small variety they still couldn't get animations right. Okay,the story does explain,you just don't want to accept that explanation. This is a rigidly control colonization effort,every single applicant was most likely told before hand that colonists would be woken up in order of usefulness/need eg I need 300 water purifiers built and maintained this means mechanics and engineers not little Timmy who has a phd in teddybears. Anyone with half a brain in their head will want the environment as safe as possible before setting up schools and nursery's,can you imagine the hit to morale if the Kett attack on Outpost 1 have had children there. The reason the buildings all the bloody same is because they are modular flat packed equivalents,so they will of course look the same,until they have enough infrastructure down to make more permanent structures. As for the plant life,i don't know i thought it was to do with the vault system seeding the worlds and following a similar pattern.
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Post by sdzald on Apr 5, 2017 0:31:45 GMT
FeralEwok I understand what you are saying. Heck I couldn't bring myself to get into the Harry Potter thing only because children were at the center of the story. With that said not wanting to have the children as part of the story is one thing but not having them around at all just isn't right. Can you imagine watching a Law and Order show and the detectives being out on the streets without ANY children EVER being around?
There is something natural about having them around, and when you totally omit them then the scenes just do not feel right. To go through an entire game, where I visit many towns, ports, settlements, homesteads as well as alien city's and not SEE one child the entire time is just not right. IMO NO amount of story twisting can make it right.
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Post by dragontartare on Apr 5, 2017 1:20:05 GMT
FeralEwok I understand what you are saying. Heck I couldn't bring myself to get into the Harry Potter thing only because children were at the center of the story. With that said not wanting to have the children as part of the story is one thing but not having them around at all just isn't right. Can you imagine watching a Law and Order show and the detectives being out on the streets without ANY children EVER being around?There is something natural about having them around, and when you totally omit them then the scenes just do not feel right. To go through an entire game, where I visit many towns, ports, settlements, homesteads as well as alien city's and not SEE one child the entire time is just not right. IMO NO amount of story twisting can make it right. Yes. Yes I can imagine that. I barely even noticed the lack of kids in DAI and MEA until people brought it up. In DAI, it makes no sense that there wouldn't be any refugee children anywhere...but in MEA, the lack of Milky Way children does make perfect sense. Multiple people have explained to you why that is, including me, and I don't feel like repeating myself. As for that one child that Vetra moved up the queue, why would he be running around the areas of the station that Ryder has access to? Some kid has now been released from stasis, but I can guarantee you that the initiative can't spare an adult to play babysitter all day. He probably spends most of his time following his dad around while dad tries to do his part to keep the initiative afloat.
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Post by bekkael on Apr 5, 2017 1:48:44 GMT
An M-rated game is no place for children.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Apr 5, 2017 2:06:07 GMT
The second reason is their crappy engine just couldn't handle a bunch of "small sized" avatars without throwing up worse then it currently does. The answer of course is in Bowares inability to add them and keep their crappy engine from being worse then it already is. It is the same reason that all characters are the same size and humanoid, that all buildings look the same, that all mobs look the same, that all plant life looks the same.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 249 Likes: 275
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Apr 13, 2017 19:07:41 GMT
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ctphipps
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by CTPhipps on Apr 5, 2017 9:28:37 GMT
I think it's interesting that some people can't imagine a society where kids are not allowed out of freezing because they're so important to the parents.
However, RL is full of pioneers who actually left their children behind with relatives until they established themselves.
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laxian
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Jan 20, 2017 21:17:42 GMT
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laxian
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Post by laxian on Apr 5, 2017 15:10:44 GMT
Ok this has been bugging me for a few days. Why don't we see any children in the game? I know they came along on the Arc as they are mentioned in the story several times, you even come across a bunch of destroyed stasis pods on one of the planets and when scanned SAM tells you it was a child. Yet we see NO children on the Nexus, none on any of the Outposts and even none on any of the Angara worlds. There are only two reason I can think of why they are left out. The first is Bioware just didn't want to deal with the outcry if any children were harmed in the game. The second reason is their crappy engine just couldn't handle a bunch of "small sized" avatars without throwing up worse then it currently does. Any other reasons? Neither of those two seem very good to me. Well, the others have already said it, but I will repeat it (Sometimes I do love to read my own writing ^^): The Andromeda Initiative didn't take any children along it seems (which is a good idea as they need special care and looking after (note: I hope they brought people along who learned how to take care of children (from baby to teenager and young adult) because while on the job learning is great, I think you can't learn how to be a teacher or a professor (of say engineering) out of a manual (or at least not as well as if you've been trained by people who have already worked in that kind of job and if you have your own experiences!)! It may take years till kids come along but people who have those kinds of jobs can do other stuff in the mean time, like work at hospitals (nurses for example!) etc...hell, I'd go a step further: The teachers, professors and child-care workers would only be woken up once there is children, so they would have signed up for extended cryo (can't have them age while there are no children, they are needed rested and prepared once there are actually children around!)) The A.I. also put everybody on temporary birth-control (temporary sterility!) in order to stop children from appearing when there is no infrastructure yet etc. (Hell, one quest involves a selfish bitch who stole from the A.I. and took counter medicine to become fertile once again (and she's pregnant when you meet her - hell, she gives birth once you have helped her out and the fucking game doesn't give you the option to PUNISH HER (what she did is a crime, she stole equipment, medicine etc., she endangered people because she selfishly wanted/needed to be pregnant right now (like a fucking petulant teenager!)...I wouldn't want her to be a mother, I'd put her to work (unpaid community service) and I'd have the kid taken and put into stasis (if children can survive that!) if given the choice (the food situation is still tight, I wouldn't want to hurt the kid by being unable to feed it well!), but the game applauds her selfishness (her's and others as the quest mentions that she did the same for others, she's just the furthest along in her pregnancy!)) greetings LAX ps: I hate it when games proclaim selfishness ("It's for the children!") is good - sorry, but it's not, just like in RL it's one of the worst things you can do out there to have a kid when you can't afford to (otherwise known as "Society ows me and will pay for it!")...IMHO society should put a stop to paying for kids their parents can't afford (or take those kids away from those parents - cold? Not really IMHO! Would you want somebody like that to be a parent? I wouldn't and this way, if the state takes the kids, the kids are at least propperly taken care of!)
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