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Post by vonuber on Apr 9, 2017 10:52:23 GMT
No idea - huge LotR fan (the books anyway) as well as pratchett etc. I just found the ME setting more satisfying as a place to be. Also the static combat compared to the more fluid ME combat plays into this as it makes the bits inbetween the 'tell me about your people' parts more engaging and thus more likely to put up with dull parts of the game.
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qwib
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I am Pathfinder rah bah bah
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by qwib on Apr 9, 2017 10:58:19 GMT
Are some of you bored or something?
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Post by zipzap2000 on Apr 9, 2017 11:12:08 GMT
*See's Dragon Age thread in Mass Effect section*
*narrows eyes*
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Post by ClarkKent on Apr 9, 2017 11:36:17 GMT
To this day I don't think any other game has surpassed the 'road trip with your bros' feeling that DAO had. I moan a little when faced with the deep roads and the fade on subsequent playthroughs but the attachment they create to your own character and your followers means I wouldn't have had them any other way.
Talking of my first play through, my city elf is probably my favourite games protagonist of all time. I love that guy. I can see why a silent protagonist might be an issue for those that lack imagination(but even then, this isn't elder scrolls, the game time and time again gives you ways you can define your own character within the world).
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Post by wolfsite on Apr 9, 2017 11:36:31 GMT
The main problem here is that what game is better than the other is very subjective.
I myself enjoyed Dragon Age 2 a lot more than Dragon Age: Origins.
I felt it had much better characters. more natural banter between the characters. better combat. I liked that it was a more personal story rather than you must save the whole world like in most games.
So ya very subjective.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 9, 2017 11:55:22 GMT
The main problem here is that what game is better than the other is very subjective. I myself enjoyed Dragon Age 2 a lot more than Dragon Age: Origins. I felt it had much better characters. more natural banter between the characters. better combat. I liked that it was a more personal story rather than you must save the whole world like in most games. So ya very subjective. It's also a very different kind of RPG in general... personally, I always liked the non-specified player character RPGs of that era best. They had enough technical bells and whistles to immerse you in the world, but they didn't remove quite as much agency from you. DAO, KOTOR, Vampire Bloodlines, yea, even the Elder Scrolls games - although they did go a bit overboard with the freedom aspect, falling off on the story side. I don't exactly know when it happened, but at some point, non-open world, story driven games did leave the "silent protagonist" behind and opted for the inclusion of the player character into the story as, well, another defined character IN the story. That's why I said DAO was the last of those "classic", story driven RPGs BW did... since then, it's mostly been character driven - the main character, that is.
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Post by wolfsite on Apr 9, 2017 12:08:15 GMT
The main problem here is that what game is better than the other is very subjective. I myself enjoyed Dragon Age 2 a lot more than Dragon Age: Origins. I felt it had much better characters. more natural banter between the characters. better combat. I liked that it was a more personal story rather than you must save the whole world like in most games. So ya very subjective. It's also a very different kind of RPG in general... personally, I always liked the non-specified player character RPGs of that era best. They had enough technical bells and whistles to immerse you in the world, but they didn't remove quite as much agency from you. DAO, KOTOR, Vampire Bloodlines, yea, even the Elder Scrolls games - although they did go a bit overboard with the freedom aspect, falling off on the story side. I don't exactly know when it happened, but at some point, non-open world, story driven games did leave the "silent protagonist" behind and opted for the inclusion of the player character into the story as, well, another defined character IN the story. That's why I said DAO was the last of those "classic", story driven RPGs BW did... since then, it's mostly been character driven - the main character, that is. Not sure why you quoted me to explain "Classic" RPG's and story, I was just stating that I liked DA2 over DA:O, that doesn't automatically mean I don't like "Classic" RPG's
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 9, 2017 12:12:44 GMT
My favourite bit is the way you can just buy gifts to improve relationships, rather than through your actions. Or the broken combat. Or the interminable random encounters. Or the deep roads. Or the underwear mannequin sex. Bioware have definitely gone downhill. Meh, if those are your issues with the game I would say you are likely playing it for the wrong reasons. If you are looking for God of War, then yes DA:O is going to disappoint.
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Post by warbaby2 on Apr 9, 2017 12:12:52 GMT
It's also a very different kind of RPG in general... personally, I always liked the non-specified player character RPGs of that era best. They had enough technical bells and whistles to immerse you in the world, but they didn't remove quite as much agency from you. DAO, KOTOR, Vampire Bloodlines, yea, even the Elder Scrolls games - although they did go a bit overboard with the freedom aspect, falling off on the story side. I don't exactly know when it happened, but at some point, non-open world, story driven games did leave the "silent protagonist" behind and opted for the inclusion of the player character into the story as, well, another defined character IN the story. That's why I said DAO was the last of those "classic", story driven RPGs BW did... since then, it's mostly been character driven - the main character, that is. Not sure why you quoted me to explain "Classic" RPG's and story, I was just stating that I liked DA2 over DA:O, that doesn't automatically mean I don't like "Classic" RPG's You compared DAO to DA2 although they are two different kinds, or better sub genres of RPGs... hence the explanation. I didn't try to invalidate your statement, or anything...
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Post by bizantura on Apr 9, 2017 12:16:10 GMT
The main problem here is that what game is better than the other is very subjective. I myself enjoyed Dragon Age 2 a lot more than Dragon Age: Origins. I felt it had much better characters. more natural banter between the characters. better combat. I liked that it was a more personal story rather than you must save the whole world like in most games. So ya very subjective. It's also a very different kind of RPG in general... personally, I always liked the non-specified player character RPGs of that era best. They had enough technical bells and whistles to immerse you in the world, but they didn't remove quite as much agency from you. DAO, KOTOR, Vampire Bloodlines, yea, even the Elder Scrolls games - although they did go a bit overboard with the freedom aspect, falling off on the story side. I don't exactly know when it happened, but at some point, non-open world, story driven games did leave the "silent protagonist" behind and opted for the inclusion of the player character into the story as, well, another defined character IN the story. That's why I said DAO was the last of those "classic", story driven RPGs BW did... since then, it's mostly been character driven - the main character, that is. Dare I say it, the need to control everything, including every aspect of protagonist. Fill in all the blanks, leave no room for creative filling of your own.
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Post by wolfsite on Apr 9, 2017 12:16:47 GMT
Not sure why you quoted me to explain "Classic" RPG's and story, I was just stating that I liked DA2 over DA:O, that doesn't automatically mean I don't like "Classic" RPG's You compared DAO to DA2 although they are two different kinds, or better sub genres of RPGs... hence the explanation. I didn't try to invalidate your statement, or anything... Okay, too me a classic RPG is the style of Wizardry or the original Bard's Tale (just stating for reference)
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FeralEwok
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Yub Nub
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Post by FeralEwok on Apr 9, 2017 12:27:29 GMT
It's a little bit apples and oranges...but it might be an okay apple and one really fucking orgasmic orange...
It took the right origin for me to pick before DAO finally clicked with me, but it's a pretty excellent Bioware story. I think a lot of people who accuse it of being cliche haven't either fully finished the game or played it on the most superficial level as it actually subverts a number of tropes here and there and does a pretty decent job merging high and dark fantasy. You can tell, despite whatever flaws are in the game, that there is no question the game developers loved this game. This was really their last game where majority of it was worked on prior to the EA purchase and felt like a love letter to fantasy RPGs.
Right developers, right spirit, right time.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 9, 2017 13:11:51 GMT
To me, Dragon Age: Origins only gets a free pass because people want to give it one. It is a good game don't get me wrong, but the game has faults and a lot of them and saying "they made it a decade ago" doesn't excuse the problems I have with the game.
I am an "old timer" when it comes to BioWare, but I remember all the hatred aimed at BioWare which was a lot by the standards back them because "it wasn't Baulder's Gate" and how they gave up on the games that made them famous and abandoning people that supported them prior to Dragon Age: Origins. Heck I am pretty sure it was also called a non-RPG because it wasn't based off the DnD ruleset.
I am pretty sure when the next BioWare game comes out Andromeda will all of a sudden be "much better".
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shodanas
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Post by shodanas on Apr 9, 2017 13:16:31 GMT
DA:O is my all time favorite game....ever. Brilliant characters and a fantastic story which, even now, makes me cry. But you really can't compare it to the Bioware of today. Since that was originally David Gaiders baby, and he no longer works for Bioware. Not to mention, ME is written and developed by a completely different team. DA:O was a very good game alright. However if we want to keep things in perspective and compare it to its spiritual predecessor (according to Bioware) Baldur's Gate II then it falls extremely short in every aspect. Story, characters, world & lore, rpg mechanics. Everything. Also, isn't there a DA:O section on these boards ?
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Post by toomanyclouds on Apr 9, 2017 13:27:49 GMT
The main problem here is that what game is better than the other is very subjective. I myself enjoyed Dragon Age 2 a lot more than Dragon Age: Origins. I felt it had much better characters. more natural banter between the characters. better combat. I liked that it was a more personal story rather than you must save the whole world like in most games. So ya very subjective. Oh damn, I found someone else with the Forbidden Opinion. It was the same for me, even though I enjoyed both games and I realise that DA2 has a lot of flaws (because people will never resist to list them whenever I dare mention I like this game).
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Post by themikefest on Apr 9, 2017 14:17:50 GMT
DAO is my favorite Bioware game. More for the music. How different would the game be if it was redone with frostbite and the Warden had a voice? I would buy it if that happens.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 9, 2017 14:24:52 GMT
DAO is my favorite Bioware game. More for the music. How different would the game be if it was redone with frostbite and the Warden had a voice? I would buy it if that happens. The dialogue system would be changed as a result, because the way the Warden's dialogue is written would be ill-suited for an actual VO.
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That's what she said...
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Post by R1Outcast on Apr 9, 2017 14:29:06 GMT
why cant EA put money to get these legends to work, instead they remain cheap and destroy most franchies I think when you're forging your own path as an independent company, and you're proud of your work, it shows. When you're part of the machine, despite oodles of money being thrown at you - you've got quarterly deadlines, and non-existent QA as a result, along with a general lack of passion, as you're just pumping out Mass Effect: Andromeda 2017, ME:A DLC 1 Late 2017, ME:A Early 2018, etc. You stop caring, there's no passion, and it shows. Very true. The company I used to work for started small and had an awesome "family" atmosphere. Management and the CEO cared about employees on a personal level and it showed. We had company parties and picnics and people actually wanted to go to them, even bringing family and friends along to enjoy the festivities. As the years went by though, the company kept growing and growing until it became just another corporation where the employees were nothing more than numbers and financial liability. Ambition is often a good thing, but it tends to have quite a few negative aspects as well.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 9, 2017 14:29:08 GMT
The dialogue system would be changed as a result, because the way the Warden's dialogue is written would be ill-suited for an actual VO. True.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 9, 2017 14:29:27 GMT
Meh, if those are your issues with the game I would say you are likely playing it for the wrong reasons. If you are looking for God of War, then yes DA:O is going to disappoint. So what are the 'right' reasons to play it?
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 9, 2017 14:39:45 GMT
I think when you're forging your own path as an independent company, and you're proud of your work, it shows. When you're part of the machine, despite oodles of money being thrown at you - you've got quarterly deadlines, and non-existent QA as a result, along with a general lack of passion, as you're just pumping out Mass Effect: Andromeda 2017, ME:A DLC 1 Late 2017, ME:A Early 2018, etc. You stop caring, there's no passion, and it shows. Got to agree here. If I remember correctly, when Origins was made, Bioware was a relatively small company and not a part of EA when Gaider pitched the idea of Dragon Age to them. So a hell of a lot of passion and love went into it. Now however, it's all about deadlines and the new writers don't have that same enthusiasm. I think people blame pairing up with publishers to much. Bioware wouldn't exist without EA or they'd be paired with another publisher people like to trash on. Does anyone remember ME1 having issues getting off the ground? Pairing up with EA made future games have more ground to get up off. If it's not EA then you'll only see bioware Kaye up with Activision or someone else. So if theres no EA bioware either wouldn't exist if they'd be so small or they'd be a strict niche group where they're not publicly known. I still see passion in their games even to this day, I think people just choose to ignore it or they don't want to see it.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 9, 2017 14:49:16 GMT
Meh, if those are your issues with the game I would say you are likely playing it for the wrong reasons. If you are looking for God of War, then yes DA:O is going to disappoint. So what are the 'right' reasons to play it? "you can just buy gifts to improve relationships" There were only a few major gifts and had story reasons for them. The smaller ones weren't even necessary anyway. If you are playing a game to not give gifts, that is a pretty trifling thing. "the broken combat" The combat wasn't broken. It was an homage to older turn based tactical RPG's of the past. It did a great job at creating the feeling it set out to. If you are looking for fast paced stylized combat, like I said God Of War is right that way ----> "Or the interminable random encounters. Or the deep roads." Again an homage to older dungeon delving type RPG's. They added exactly the kind of atmosphere they were intended to. Besides the Deep Roads and the Fade don't take nearly as long to finish as people make them out to. If you want short straight ahead corridors to funnel you from point A to B with not interruptions whatsoever ME2 is right that way ----> "the underwear mannequin sex" The internet is full of porn. Pick a direction and you'll find some. (this one I kinda agree on, the DAO sex scenes were terrible but since it isn't supposed to be a porn simulator it didn't bother me too much) You can not like any or all of those aspects of the game, I'm not saying you are wrong for not liking them. Just that none of them are 'broken' in terms of how they were put into the game.
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It's just a game, folks...
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Post by timebean on Apr 9, 2017 15:05:17 GMT
I think it is difficult to compare the two games, mostly because I have changed so much in the many years since DAO came out.
Don't get me wrong, I get where you are coming from. DAO is my favorite game of all time...but I also played it when I was a much younger. It's just like how Dune is one of my favorite books of all time and Led Zeppelin is one of my favorite bands of all time...but I also read Dune and listened to Led Zeppelin for the first time when I was 15.
If I played DAO (or read Dune, or listed to Led Zeppelin) for the first time now, it is possible that I would find them all...just OK. I might be annoyed by Robert Plant's high-pitched squeal and Dune's attempt at religion meets sci-fi meets ecology. I might play DAO and be underwhelmed at Alistair's goofiness and Morrigan's ice-queeniness and Zevran's creepy massages.
Who knows? It's like comparing every fantasy book to Lord of the Rings. There is always a level of nostalgia that is hard to let go of.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2017 15:09:09 GMT
So what are the 'right' reasons to play it? "you can just buy gifts to improve relationships" There were only a few major gifts and had story reasons for them. The smaller ones weren't even necessary anyway. If you are playing a game to not give gifts, that is a pretty trifling thing. Missing the point. The non-major gifts are cheap and abundant, and they trivialize the approval scores. "Necessary" has nothing to do with it. The problem is that approval is too easy to manage. Incredibly, Bio made this worse with DLC. Well, "broken" is highly subjective. But DA:O did have lousy balance and was very easy. I don't think this is a serious objection to DA:O in particular, though, since Bio games often have lousy combat balance and difficulty can be modded. So they implemented a bad design objective in a good way? Yeah, I can agree with that. So just say he's right. The porn line is a silly non sequitur and you don't even mean it.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ShiftyCow on Apr 9, 2017 15:09:10 GMT
why cant EA put money to get these legends to work, instead they remain cheap and destroy most franchies ... When you're part of the machine, despite oodles of money being thrown at you - you've got quarterly deadlines, and non-existent QA as a result, along with a general lack of passion ... I keep seeing people talk about poor QA - and I finally have to just point out that it's got nothing to do with QA. QA is an organization that manages a company's processes and procedures and deals with making sure all employees are following the "rules". What you're all looking to holler about is QC - Quality Control. That is the department that is responsible for testing software. Sorry, rant over. It's just been driving me crazy seeing everyone mention QA. I actually work in software QC - and QA has nothing to do with the software or its "quality". =)
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