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Post by decafhigh on Apr 9, 2017 15:13:15 GMT
"you can just buy gifts to improve relationships" There were only a few major gifts and had story reasons for them. The smaller ones weren't even necessary anyway. If you are playing a game to not give gifts, that is a pretty trifling thing. Missing the point. The non-major gifts are cheap and abundant, and they trivialize the approval scores. "Necessary" has nothing to do with it. The problem is that approval is too easy to manage. Incredibly, Bio made this worse with DLC. Well, "broken" is highly subjective. But DA:O did have lousy balance and was very easy. I don't think this is a serious objection to DA:O in particular, though, since Bio games often have lousy combat balance and difficulty can be modded. So they implemented a bad design objective in a good way? Yeah, I can agree with that. So just say he's right. The porn line is a silly non sequitur and you don't even mean it. Like I said not liking it is fine. I don't like onions so why would I order an onion ring then complain about it being an onion? Wouldn't it make sense for you to tell me to just not order something with onions in it?
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Post by smilesja on Apr 9, 2017 15:15:23 GMT
Got to agree here. If I remember correctly, when Origins was made, Bioware was a relatively small company and not a part of EA when Gaider pitched the idea of Dragon Age to them. So a hell of a lot of passion and love went into it. Now however, it's all about deadlines and the new writers don't have that same enthusiasm. I think people blame pairing up with publishers to much. Bioware wouldn't exist without EA or they'd be paired with another publisher people like to trash on. Does anyone remember ME1 having issues getting off the ground? Pairing up with EA made future games have more ground to get up off. If it's not EA then you'll only see bioware Kaye up with Activision or someone else. So if theres no EA bioware either wouldn't exist if they'd be so small or they'd be a strict niche group where they're not publicly known. I still see passion in their games even to this day, I think people just choose to ignore it or they don't want to see it. And the lack of passion comment seems odd to me there's plenty of passion in this game, DA2 and other games under EA
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Post by jackdaniel on Apr 9, 2017 15:29:15 GMT
DA O is peak Bioware. Hate it or love it, It has all of the cliche that BioWare is known for, but also BioWare at its best.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 9, 2017 15:38:09 GMT
Like I said not liking it is fine. I don't like onions so why would I order an onion ring then complain about it being an onion? Wouldn't it make sense for you to tell me to just not order something with onions in it? I like parts of it. Other parts are bilge. I'm still waiting for the right reasons to play it though - is liking character driven rpgs not enough? Do I need another more correct reason? Or are you saying I shouldn't be critical of it?
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Post by smilesja on Apr 9, 2017 15:40:04 GMT
Like I said not liking it is fine. I don't like onions so why would I order an onion ring then complain about it being an onion? Wouldn't it make sense for you to tell me to just not order something with onions in it? I like parts of it. Other parts are bilge. I'm still waiting for the right reasons to play it though - is liking character driven rpgs not enough? Do I need another more correct reason? Or are you saying I shouldn't be critical of it? You should only be critical of the games made under EA (Kidding)
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Post by unwanted on Apr 9, 2017 15:48:07 GMT
I was playing ME1 the other day and the animation, dialogue, cut scenes, etc, Make Andromeda look like a cheap indie game. We are suppose to go forward damit.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2017 15:52:48 GMT
Missing the point. The non-major gifts are cheap and abundant, and they trivialize the approval scores. "Necessary" has nothing to do with it. The problem is that approval is too easy to manage. Incredibly, Bio made this worse with DLC. Well, "broken" is highly subjective. But DA:O did have lousy balance and was very easy. I don't think this is a serious objection to DA:O in particular, though, since Bio games often have lousy combat balance and difficulty can be modded. So they implemented a bad design objective in a good way? Yeah, I can agree with that. So just say he's right. The porn line is a silly non sequitur and you don't even mean it. Like I said not liking it is fine. I don't like onions so why would I order an onion ring then complain about it being an onion? Wouldn't it make sense for you to tell me to just not order something with onions in it? Did Bio advertise that DA:O would have a stupid approval mechanic, underwear sex, and unbalanced easy combat? I agree that the Deep Roads was exactly the sort of bad design a buyer could reasonably expect, although you'd have to dig fairly deeply into the marketing to know that in advance; the videos certainly didn't sell this aspect.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 9, 2017 16:02:29 GMT
Or the Fade. Damn I hated that place in DA:O. Aside from the backtracking, I hated the fuzziness of the imagery. It became a bit of a strain to look at.
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Post by decafhigh on Apr 9, 2017 16:09:04 GMT
Like I said not liking it is fine. I don't like onions so why would I order an onion ring then complain about it being an onion? Wouldn't it make sense for you to tell me to just not order something with onions in it? Did Bio advertise that DA:O would have a stupid approval mechanic, underwear sex, and unbalanced easy combat? I agree that the Deep Roads was exactly the sort of bad design a buyer could reasonably expect, although you'd have to dig fairly deeply into the marketing to know that in advance; the videos certainly didn't sell this aspect. Well you are obviously more interested in just taking cheap shots at DA:O than actually discussing it, so this reply is likely wasted but yes they did advertise what kind of game it was going to be. It was billed in their advertisements as the spiritual successor to those older strategic turned based dungeon delving RPG's. They showed off the combat and how you could pause the game and used the battlefield cam to assign actions and direct the combat from a tactical view. It was a slower paced more methodical game on purpose. If you were going into DA:O expecting fast paced combat and short corridor map levels I would say yes, you were looking for a different game than what they were offering.
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Post by midnightwolf on Apr 9, 2017 16:19:19 GMT
DA:O is my all time favorite game....ever. Brilliant characters and a fantastic story which, even now, makes me cry. But you really can't compare it to the Bioware of today. Since that was originally David Gaiders baby, and he no longer works for Bioware. Not to mention, ME is written and developed by a completely different team. DA:O was a very good game alright. However if we want to keep things in perspective and compare it to its spiritual predecessor (according to Bioware) Baldur's Gate II then it falls extremely short in every aspect. Story, characters, world & lore, rpg mechanics. Everything. Also, isn't there a DA:O section on these boards ? To be honest, I've never played that series of games so I can't comment. But my point about DA:O is, that game was all Gaider's, unlike DA:2 and Inquisition, which had a hell of a lot of other writing teams involved. And it really does show. Don't get me wrong, I like the other DA games too, but they don't grip me and pull me into the story in the same way that Origins does.
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Post by Camel on Apr 9, 2017 16:20:54 GMT
DA:O has 91% at Metacritic.
ME2 has 94% at Metacritic.
Andromeda has just 74% at Metacritic.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 9, 2017 16:22:35 GMT
My favourite bit is the way you can just buy gifts to improve relationships, rather than through your actions. Or the broken combat. Or the interminable random encounters. Or the deep roads. Or the underwear mannequin sex. Bioware have definitely gone downhill. Not to mention the boring combat animations. The plot being basically being a rip-off of The Hobbit and Dragonslayer.
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Post by fchopin on Apr 9, 2017 16:24:31 GMT
Yes DAO is one of the best games Bioware have made. I also like ME1 as it was the first Bioware game i played and still has the best ending ever.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 9, 2017 16:28:30 GMT
Yup. All fans need is to boot up an old BioWare game and the reality check sets in. All the Andromeda apologists have just forgotten the feeling they had when they played the trilogy or Dragon Age Origins.
It's a different company more and more infested with EA veteran devs, contrary to how BioWare was always formerly a studio that hired not just game-developers but all sorts of professions to increase perspective, and they hired too many fanboys while the talent left.
BioWare just isn't the same company and I think that's finally starting to set in to the remaining naysayers.
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Post by Mihura on Apr 9, 2017 16:32:49 GMT
After playing a bit of that game, and then playing ME:A. I can sense how **** Bioware has become on creating quality games. I mean this game is 10 years old, It has the "LOTR Factor" in it. Man the freaking cutscenes, motioncapture and character interactions are "SO FREAKIN ENGAGING". SOB what a sad story for Bioware, even Dragon Age Inquisition is pretty Bad compared to DA:O. Wish one day Bioware will start creating something like this or could even do just DA:O with the FrostBite engine. I do not think DA:O is better per se story wise or characters wise. It is more about the polishing and dedication you can see the game has. There were really shitty things, like the deep roads almost make me quit or the DLCs pop ups or the boring animations or the too long fillers quests. Still the game had a m/m romance and the companions seem to be there for a good reason, you could really flesh out your character and the ending with Loghain was amazing and he was a good villain.
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Post by vonuber on Apr 9, 2017 16:35:55 GMT
Yup. All fans need is to boot up an old BioWare game and the reality check sets in. All the Andromeda apologists have just forgotten the feeling they had when they played the trilogy or Dragon Age Origins. What, getting so bored and fed up that you quit halfway through the deep roads never to return? And that's even after leaving it until last as you heard how naff it was? Yeah I haven't forgotten that feeling. It's similar to the one I had in DA:I.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 9, 2017 16:56:49 GMT
Yup. All fans need is to boot up an old BioWare game and the reality check sets in. All the Andromeda apologists have just forgotten the feeling they had when they played the trilogy or Dragon Age Origins. It's a different company more and more infested with EA veteran devs, contrary to how BioWare was always formerly a studio that hired not just game-developers but all sorts of professions to increase perspective, and they hired too many fanboys while the talent left. BioWare just isn't the same company and I think that's finally starting to set in to the remaining naysayers. I've played dragon age origins and I still love me a so far
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2017 17:01:23 GMT
Yup. All fans need is to boot up an old BioWare game and the reality check sets in. All the Andromeda apologists have just forgotten the feeling they had when they played the trilogy or Dragon Age Origins. Fans? Don't speak for me. Actually playing is counterproductive if I'm trying to recover the feeling I had when playing for the first time. When I boot up an older Bio game now I see the problems first. The strengths are still there, but it takes a bit longer to see them. It's sort of like watching Star Trek TOS. Still fun, but when I watch it now it's more of a camp/nostalgia exercise.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 9, 2017 17:19:02 GMT
Yup. All fans need is to boot up an old BioWare game and the reality check sets in. All the Andromeda apologists have just forgotten the feeling they had when they played the trilogy or Dragon Age Origins. It's a different company more and more infested with EA veteran devs, contrary to how BioWare was always formerly a studio that hired not just game-developers but all sorts of professions to increase perspective, and they hired too many fanboys while the talent left. BioWare just isn't the same company and I think that's finally starting to set in to the remaining naysayers. I remember the feeling I had when I played the trilogy for the first time. It was often mixed with fair doses of frustration. ME1 I'm almost inclined to give a pass, partly because of its age, but also because it at least had an overall effective "twist" in its second half, despite the obviousness that the baddie we were dealing with was not the real threat. But with lines as cornball as anything we've gotten now, the walking codex companions gunplay that was always kind of poor, it took a great deal of time before I truly began to love it. I'm gonna just gloss over ME2 because I think it's extremely overrated with flashes of greatness in a seriously janky setup (and is the primary source of my frustration with the franchise), but ME3 was where I felt the franchise started to actually come into greater focus. The ending sure fucked things up, but I accept it post-EC and think that the major arcs before it are some of the strongest in the trilogy. Overall, it was a slow process before I really developed as strong a feeling as I do for the franchise. Maybe I'm just a filthy Andromeda apologist, but I'd be lying if I didn't think I put up with a lot of bullshit from the original trilogy.
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Post by wolfsite on Apr 9, 2017 18:01:42 GMT
DA O is peak Bioware. Hate it or love it, It has all of the cliche that BioWare is known for, but also BioWare at its best. I just find this funny because 3-5 years ago Balder's Gate 2 was considered peak Bioware by many fans and DA:O was being run through shit puddle.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 9, 2017 18:08:38 GMT
My favourite bit is the way you can just buy gifts to improve relationships, rather than through your actions. Or the broken combat. Or the interminable random encounters. Or the deep roads. Or the underwear mannequin sex. Bioware have definitely gone downhill.
Errr... you are aware that DA:O didn't come out during 2017, right? It would be about as logical to bash KOTOR for having boxy character models..
I'd say that most of DA:O failings have more to do with the game just being old, and the formula not perfected yet, than anything else.
There's also something to be said for the fact that DA:O had mods that fixed many of the game's annoyances. The "skip the fade" mod comes to mind.
Or the combat being weak. Or the long in the tooth bioware style by 2009 standards. Or the really bad character progression. Don't get me wrong i like origins a lot, but it does have problems even in 2009.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2017 18:10:05 GMT
For me DA and ME are apples and oranges, same with their old engine and the new one.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 9, 2017 18:11:01 GMT
Yup. All fans need is to boot up an old BioWare game and the reality check sets in. All the Andromeda apologists have just forgotten the feeling they had when they played the trilogy or Dragon Age Origins. It's a different company more and more infested with EA veteran devs, contrary to how BioWare was always formerly a studio that hired not just game-developers but all sorts of professions to increase perspective, and they hired too many fanboys while the talent left. BioWare just isn't the same company and I think that's finally starting to set in to the remaining naysayers. I remember the feeling I had when I played the trilogy for the first time. It was often mixed with fair doses of frustration. ME1 I'm almost inclined to give a pass, partly because of its age, but also because it at least had an overall effective "twist" in its second half, despite the obviousness that the baddie we were dealing with was not the real threat. But with lines as cornball as anything we've gotten now, the walking codex companions gunplay that was always kind of poor, it took a great deal of time before I truly began to love it. I'm gonna just gloss over ME2 because I think it's extremely overrated with flashes of greatness in a seriously janky setup (and is the primary source of my frustration with the franchise), but ME3 was where I felt the franchise started to actually come into greater focus. The ending sure fucked things up, but I accept it post-EC and think that the major arcs before it are some of the strongest in the trilogy. Overall, it was a slow process before I really developed as strong a feeling as I do for the franchise. Maybe I'm just a filthy Andromeda apologist, but I'd be lying if I didn't think I put up with a lot of bullshit from the original trilogy. I hated ME3 and I think ME2 was the point where the series started to have a true sense of greatness. ME1 has a lot of charm too and inarguably the best representation of the setting from a literary standpoint. The reason why I disliked ME3 was primarily the writing and design changes. More autodialogue and it defaults to Renegade-y lines a lot of the time or just Shepard acting like a moron. The logic of the plot seemed to fail whenever it was going on rails which is the opposite of what should've happened with an increased "focus" IMO. Tuchanka and all the ME2-character quests had a lot of contrivances IMO but Tuchanka was still very satisfying (but I didn't have Mordin in my original run) and Rannoch was pretty great and I liked some of the character moments but strongly disliked thanks to Autodialogue how they locked you out of the extraneous crew conversations just because... whatever. But that's just writing and interactive narrative. I also disliked how much of a pure shooter it had become. ME2 has a loop in every level where you land, explore, talk then combat and optional areas with more conversations and these conversations always focused on the "interactive narrative". ME3 said screw all that and threw you into one linear level after the next with the only optional areas leading to secret rooms with weapon mods or upgrades. That sucked big time and what sucked even more was that whenever you had the "conversation encounter" parts of the action levels it usually just featured one dialogue wheel or so and lots of autodialogue. This is all just to say though, people all have their different takes on where the series won and where it failed. To me ME2 appealed the most, ME1 was maybe the slightly better package and ME3 was the letdown of all letdowns in my life as a gamer.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Apr 9, 2017 18:13:35 GMT
DA O is peak Bioware. Hate it or love it, It has all of the cliche that BioWare is known for, but also BioWare at its best. I just find this funny because 3-5 years ago Balder's Gate 2 was considered peak Bioware by many fans and DA:O was being run through shit puddle. It's a constantly revolving door with any fanbase. I mean you'll have people saying halo 4 isn't a bad game anymore even though it was smacked hard by its fanbase. Gears judgement gets the same treatment as well and I can recall ME2 being the devil because it being quite different than ME1 at the time. Come down the road where another two mass effect games come by you'll see andromeda won't be talked about negatively as people will have moved on by them. Even the ME3 ending isn't mentioned near as much anymore. im going to agree with jack to an extent though, the dragon age franchise peaked at origins, but it wasn't biowares peak game overall if you ask me, I'm giving that to the baldurs series or ME1.
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Post by duskwanderer on Apr 9, 2017 18:16:37 GMT
I don't understand the fascination with Origins. The Origins themselves were kinda cool, but once I got into the main game, it was pretty dull. The four areas just went on too freaking long. I was sick of the dwarves by the Legion of the Dead city, I was sick of the elves by the time that weird kid was whining about his mother, I was sick of the Urn of the Sacred Ashes by the time I was slaughtering cultists in that mountain place, and the Fade was widely considered to be an awful dungeon by pretty much everyone.
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