azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Apr 20, 2017 2:09:27 GMT
I played DA2 "all the way" with 4 rogues on normal (3 rogue + 1 warrior until Sebastian was acquired asap in act 2) and they shredded everything faster and didn't die more often than any "balanced party" I played in that game. Force Mage has plenty of large scale crowd control and Warrior has Tremor (upgraded for more CC) too. Although, I don't say no at a ranged Warrior tree... Didn't die? I don't micro-manage my party unless I died to an encounter, nor do I really optimize tactics (yeah I'm lazy). So yeah, didn't die as often, lol.
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 20, 2017 8:00:50 GMT
I want warriors to be able to use ranged weapons (Sten made a great archer). Alternatively, I want warriors to be optional. You didn't ever need a warrior in DAO, and that's one of the strengths of the game. Then DA2 prioritized tanking by changing how the combat worked (Dex-tanks stopped being a thing, and large-scale crowd control options disappeared), and DAI's level design basically forced us to have one of each class with us all the time. I don't know that I necessarily agree with the bolded part. Maybe early game this is true, but once you get masterwork crafting available (for guard on hit) and a rift mage with Stone fist (for breaking physical barriers) you could quite happily play on nightmare with 2 rogues and 2 mages. Or at least, that is what I've found. Alternatively, two warriors and two rogues (ranged) if you've (again) got guard on hit crafted materials for the rogues (or I forget - is it war horn or horn of valor that gives guard?) About the only class where you miss something by not having one there is rogue and all that you miss is not being able to open locks. Edit - but yes, warriors should be able to use ranged weapons. I think Sylvius meant obstacles that only certain class could deal with, broken walls for warriors, locked doors for rogues and barriers/occasional magical bridge for mages. If you didn't walk with 1+1+1+whoever, you needed to go back to change party if you wanted to reach certain places.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Apr 20, 2017 17:32:17 GMT
I don't know that I necessarily agree with the bolded part. Maybe early game this is true, but once you get masterwork crafting available (for guard on hit) and a rift mage with Stone fist (for breaking physical barriers) you could quite happily play on nightmare with 2 rogues and 2 mages. I didn't know Stone Fist could do that. Is that a documented feature? I wouldn't even consider not having a mage. Ever since BG I've always taken as many mages as possible.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 20, 2017 22:13:11 GMT
I don't know that I necessarily agree with the bolded part. Maybe early game this is true, but once you get masterwork crafting available (for guard on hit) and a rift mage with Stone fist (for breaking physical barriers) you could quite happily play on nightmare with 2 rogues and 2 mages. I didn't know Stone Fist could do that. Is that a documented feature? I wouldn't even consider not having a mage. Ever since BG I've always taken as many mages as possible. I doubt it's documented. It certainly isn't easy to do. There is no targeting reticle that comes up, so you sort of have to eyeball it, but it works.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 20, 2017 22:16:20 GMT
I don't know that I necessarily agree with the bolded part. Maybe early game this is true, but once you get masterwork crafting available (for guard on hit) and a rift mage with Stone fist (for breaking physical barriers) you could quite happily play on nightmare with 2 rogues and 2 mages. Or at least, that is what I've found. Alternatively, two warriors and two rogues (ranged) if you've (again) got guard on hit crafted materials for the rogues (or I forget - is it war horn or horn of valor that gives guard?) About the only class where you miss something by not having one there is rogue and all that you miss is not being able to open locks. Edit - but yes, warriors should be able to use ranged weapons. I thing Sylvius meant obstacles that only certain class could deal with, broken walls for warriors, locked doors for rogues and barriers/occasional magical bridge for mages. If you didn't walk with 1+1+1+whoever, you needed to go back to change party if you wanted to reach certain places. I certainly forgot about magical barriers, but I did mention locks. So, the question becomes - does any level have critical path content or areas locked behind a lock or a magical barrier? I actually can't remember myself, but the warriors can be supplanted by mages with Stonefist, so broken walls no longer need a warrior in the party.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 21, 2017 8:38:13 GMT
I thing Sylvius meant obstacles that only certain class could deal with, broken walls for warriors, locked doors for rogues and barriers/occasional magical bridge for mages. If you didn't walk with 1+1+1+whoever, you needed to go back to change party if you wanted to reach certain places. I certainly forgot about magical barriers, but I did mention locks. So, the question becomes - does any level have critical path content or areas locked behind a lock or a magical barrier? I actually can't remember myself, but the warriors can be supplanted by mages with Stonefist, so broken walls no longer need a warrior in the party. I believe the only things you need warrior/rogue/mage skills to access are special bonus things: additional loot, runes, and the like. Yeah, you can move around more easily in Forbidden Oasis if a warrior smashes those barriers, but it's not required. Using veilfire to uncover runes is not required. I can't think of a single required instance of opening locks. If you want to loot everything and all that, then yes, you do need every skill.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 23, 2017 7:13:38 GMT
I want an Arcane Warrior to fight like this!!!!
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Post by Liadan on Apr 23, 2017 14:01:40 GMT
I would like to have Arcane Warrior, Knight Enchanter, Spirit Healer, Artificer, Assassin , Ranger and Champion.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Apr 23, 2017 22:30:05 GMT
I didn't know Stone Fist could do that. Is that a documented feature? I wouldn't even consider not having a mage. Ever since BG I've always taken as many mages as possible. I doubt it's documented. It certainly isn't easy to do. There is no targeting reticle that comes up, so you sort of have to eyeball it, but it works. Okay, so that wouldn't work with the Tac Cam (just like jumping).
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 23, 2017 23:10:34 GMT
I doubt it's documented. It certainly isn't easy to do. There is no targeting reticle that comes up, so you sort of have to eyeball it, but it works. Okay, so that wouldn't work with the Tac Cam (just like jumping). Sorry - forgot that you play mostly/exclusively in tac cam. No - it won't work in that view at all. Does bash/lock-pick/energise work from tac cam? I can't recall ever trying it.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Apr 24, 2017 0:40:30 GMT
Beserker and duelist.
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Post by leadintea on Apr 24, 2017 9:28:12 GMT
Spellbinder and Spirit Healer are really the only class I want to see make a comeback in DA4 (the former as a playable class). If they do make Spellbinder a playable class, I want them to remain as buffers but with unique spells, not just a Barrier mage like in DAI. Also, I'd like to see Grimoires as a weapon for mages like the enemy mages in DAI carried.
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 24, 2017 9:38:48 GMT
Spellbinder and Spirit Healer are really the only class I want to see make a comeback in DA4 (the former as a playable class). If they do make Spellbinder a playable class, I want them to remain as buffers but with unique spells, not just a Barrier mage like in DAI. Also, I'd like to see Grimoires as a weapon for mages like the enemy mages in DAI carried.That's one of those cool things I want, but don't believe will happen. Thb, I would be perfectly happy if they gave us back melee fighting animations for ranged characters.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Apr 24, 2017 16:12:54 GMT
Okay, so that wouldn't work with the Tac Cam (just like jumping). Sorry - forgot that you play mostly/exclusively in tac cam. No - it won't work in that view at all. Does bash/lock-pick/energise work from tac cam? I can't recall ever trying it. Yes. Also, sustained activities (like reviving party members, turning gears, or closing rifts) are much easier with the Tac Cam, as they are fire & forget. In Action Cam you need to sit there and hold down a button to do the first two, thus preventing you from directing the rest of the party, but in Tac Cam you just trigger it and move on, so you can let that happen while you do other things. And with closing rifts, the Tac Cam lets you select them at range, and the pathfinding will take the Inquisitor close enough to use it without you having to move him manually. All activatable objects (like resource collection and looting) work the same way. A lot of the stuff people complained wasn't in the game was in the game, just limited to Tac Cam.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 24, 2017 19:05:56 GMT
Sorry - forgot that you play mostly/exclusively in tac cam. No - it won't work in that view at all. Does bash/lock-pick/energise work from tac cam? I can't recall ever trying it. Yes. Also, sustained activities (like reviving party members, turning gears, or closing rifts) are much easier with the Tac Cam, as they are fire & forget. In Action Cam you need to sit there and hold down a button to do the first two, thus preventing you from directing the rest of the party, but in Tac Cam you just trigger it and move on, so you can let that happen while you do other things. And with closing rifts, the Tac Cam lets you select them at range, and the pathfinding will take the Inquisitor close enough to use it without you having to move him manually. All activatable objects (like resource collection and looting) work the same way. A lot of the stuff people complained wasn't in the game was in the game, just limited to Tac Cam. Interesting. I knew about the rift closing and party revival (I explore in 3rd person but all combat is done in tac cam), but not about the gears, looting and resource gathering.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2017 20:39:43 GMT
Spellbinder and Spirit Healer are really the only class I want to see make a comeback in DA4 (the former as a playable class). If they do make Spellbinder a playable class, I want them to remain as buffers but with unique spells, not just a Barrier mage like in DAI. Also, I'd like to see Grimoires as a weapon for mages like the enemy mages in DAI carried. Spellbinders were the Venatori mages who used the grimoires? What spells did they use specifically? I think I remember something about them binding spirits into their books and using that as a source of power, is that right? I'm hazy on the difference between their method of casting versus Southern Circle mages. I would like a revamped spirit warrior from DAA. Not with the annoying constantly pulse boom effect, though. I think if DA4 is in Tevinter there's less likelihood of having a templar with lyrium abilities since Tevene templars aren't allowed to ingest lyrium. So to still retain a mystical fighter specialization, have a Rivaini spirit warrior; Rivain is all about spirits and friendly cohabitation of bodies, I don't see why they couldn't have an order of fighters who have bonded with a spirit and use their abilities in battle. I feel like spirit mage is never going to return since the devs don't want to use traditional healing anymore. But maybe a spirit medium like Rhys in Asunder...the book doesn't go into much detail on what a spirit medium does, but it could be similar to DAI's rift mage. Manipulating Fade energies and communing with spirits. If Solas' story is the central theme of DA4 I think increased involvement of spirits and the Fade would make sense. Thematically and as a combat mechanic.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Apr 24, 2017 21:41:28 GMT
Interesting. I knew about the rift closing and party revival (I explore in 3rd person but all combat is done in tac cam), but not about the gears, looting and resource gathering. People complained a lot about how they needed to walk over to loot to collect it, but it simply wasn't the case. In Tac Cam, it worked just like the older games. The gear thing though sometimes broke the game. In the assault on Haven it was possible to turn the final trebuchet too soon, thereby screwing up the enemy spawns.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 25, 2017 2:20:51 GMT
I'm not going to commit to which ones I want them to bring back for DA4 because knowing nothing about the game I don't know which ones would be thematically appropriate for it.
I will say that I really wasn't happy with the choices for Inquisition, though. I don't like how warriors got no new options while mages got nothing but new options, and I don't like how the "new" mage options were really just rearrangements of previous magic schools with one or two new abilities. Also wasn't a fan of the new rogue options, artificer and tempest; I thought they were just silly and tempest especially didn't fit Sera's personality at all. And while Champion was one of my favorite specializations in Origins I didn't really love the changes to it in Inquisition - I imagine because, so far as I'm aware, it was originally intended to be a new specialization for Chevaliers but they decided to rename it at some point.
Personally I think that Spirit Healer(despite Bioware's war on healing), Spirit Warrior, and Bard would have all been appropriate options given the story involved the fade ripping open and also delving into international politics. Since they came up with two new rogue specialties I would have liked to see a new one that could be the rogue equivalent to Spirit Healer and Spirit Warrior, which I argue would have been far more appropriate a specialization for Cole than assassin, which was just lazy. I've also yet to see a legitimate explanation for why a Templar's power is warrior only, especially given that we fight templar rogues in both Inquisition and DA2. Also felt weird not being able to get the Keeper specialization in the first game where we could play a dalish mage.
Main point being, if the intention is to have specializations be a bigger part of the story going forward as was the (failed) attempt in Inquisition, I'd like the specializations to actually be thematically in line with the story being told and not just picked out of a hat, and I want those specializations to have more effort put into them than "let's take this ability that was in a non-specialization talent tree in the last game and put it in a specialization talent tree now since we aren't doing that talent tree anymore."
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Post by Rascoth on Apr 25, 2017 8:24:58 GMT
I've also yet to see a legitimate explanation for why a Templar's power is warrior only, especially given that we fight templar rogues in both Inquisition and DA2. Wondered about that since DA2 as well. Also felt weird not being able to get the Keeper specialization in the first game where we could play a dalish mage. I think the main problem was how Inquisitor's specializations were identical to those of party members. No dalish mage in party, no spec for your dalish mage Do I need to add that I wasn't the biggest fan of this?
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 25, 2017 8:37:14 GMT
Honestly I didn't dislike the idea in concept, but when I heard about it I assumed that the Inquisitor was going to be learning their specialization from said companion, not that we'd be calling in some random trainer to teach us.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2017 15:48:11 GMT
Personally I think that Spirit Healer(despite Bioware's war on healing), Spirit Warrior, and Bard would have all been appropriate options given the story involved the fade ripping open and also delving into international politics. Since they came up with two new rogue specialties I would have liked to see a new one that could be the rogue equivalent to Spirit Healer and Spirit Warrior, which I argue would have been far more appropriate a specialization for Cole than assassin, which was just lazy. Spirit thief? Kind of a vampiric spec where the rogue leeches life energy to boost their own skills? Kind of a self buff enemy debuff thing.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 25, 2017 15:53:15 GMT
Personally I think that Spirit Healer(despite Bioware's war on healing), Spirit Warrior, and Bard would have all been appropriate options given the story involved the fade ripping open and also delving into international politics. Since they came up with two new rogue specialties I would have liked to see a new one that could be the rogue equivalent to Spirit Healer and Spirit Warrior, which I argue would have been far more appropriate a specialization for Cole than assassin, which was just lazy. Cole's spec is based on his actions in Asunder. While he wasn't an "assassin," it is the only rogue spec out of the three in DAI that matches with his character and murder knifing peeps out of their misery, and just outright murder in one case.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Apr 25, 2017 15:58:23 GMT
Honestly, the thing that bothered me most about the specializations in DAI is that they just didn't seem to fit with many of the followers, with perhaps the most glaring of all being Cassandra with the templar spec. She specifically tells you that her abilities are not like a templar's. I also thought the loss of Varric's unique Bianca spec from DA2 was a great shame.
If they were going to have the specs be taught by a special NPC, I don't see why they didn't just have each follower with their own unique spec, as they had in DA2; I quite like that design. I'll assume it was just done for lack of time, but it's unfortunate.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 25, 2017 16:48:42 GMT
Honestly, the thing that bothered me most about the specializations in DAI is that they just didn't seem to fit with many of the followers, with perhaps the most glaring of all being Cassandra with the templar spec. She specifically tells you that her abilities are not like a templar's. I also thought the loss of Varric's unique Bianca spec from DA2 was a great shame. If they were going to have the specs be taught be a special NPC, I don't see why they didn't just have each follower with their own unique spec, as they had in DA2; I quite like that design. I'll assume it was just done for lack of time, but it's unfortunate. Her abilities are not like templars, meaning: they don't need lyrium, not that techniques are different per se. She even has conversation with Solas which is entirely about how her and templar abilities are basically the same in terms of what they do. Solas: Your abilities are remarkable, Seeker. It is fascinating to see how you and the templars negate magic. Cassandra: Have you never encountered templars before? Solas: Only at a distance. I am an apostate, after all. Cassandra: And they never caught you even once? Solas: I am a very careful apostate. Cassandra: What is it like when templars nullify magic, Solas? Solas: It is as though you are drawing upon the world around us. Mages draw forth the essence of the fade, and use that essence to shape reality. Cassandra: And our powers drive it back, making this world harder to affect? Solas: In a manner of speaking. You reinforce reality so it's less mutable. The fade has nowhere to gain a foothold, and the magic disperses. Cassandra: No one has ever accused me of reinforcing reality before. Solas: You are a seeker of truth.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 25, 2017 17:53:33 GMT
Personally I think that Spirit Healer(despite Bioware's war on healing), Spirit Warrior, and Bard would have all been appropriate options given the story involved the fade ripping open and also delving into international politics. Since they came up with two new rogue specialties I would have liked to see a new one that could be the rogue equivalent to Spirit Healer and Spirit Warrior, which I argue would have been far more appropriate a specialization for Cole than assassin, which was just lazy. Cole's spec is based on his actions in Asunder. While he wasn't an "assassin," it is the only rogue spec out of the three in DAI that matches with his character and murder knifing peeps out of their misery, and just outright murder in one case. Cole being able to fight at all is kind of a contradiction from Asunder where the one time he actually engaged in combat rather than just mercy killing someone he was entirely useless and was defeated without effort. Mind you I'm still kind of salty about Cole being a party member at all. I hate Cole. Still, my point there was that there should have been different rogue specs all together. Assassin fits Cole best out of the three that were offered, that's true. I just think there should have been a different three on offer, and if they were going to come up with whole new ones anyway, I'd prefer that Cole have something that's fundamentally different than what entirely mundane mortal trained killers have.
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