duckley
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 526 Likes: 830
inherit
625
0
Mar 28, 2024 22:27:57 GMT
830
duckley
526
August 2016
duckley
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by duckley on Sept 1, 2016 2:03:05 GMT
I am a DW Rouge and am debating between artificer or tempest.. l know lots of folks like assassin but I like more direct hack N slash fighting style so not sure that's for me
What are the pros and cons of each Specialization?
|
|
inherit
✜ Forge Mechanic
352
0
Aug 30, 2023 16:01:17 GMT
6,256
PapaCharlie9
3,851
August 2016
papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 1, 2016 18:33:56 GMT
Tempest is better for DW Rogue.
Tempest DW Rogue pro: Tempest abilities work best with close-quarters melee. For example, Flask of Frost triggers when enemies are nearby. If you are an archer always at range, it can go wasted.
Tempest DW Rogue con: you don't get the AI controlled "machine gun" effect of a Tempest Archer.
Artificer DW Rogue pro: Fallback Plan is very handy for close-quarters melee. If you are about to take a killing blow or if you just need to reset your health and cooldowns, zap! Also, tossing a Spike Mine at the feet of a mob flanking your DW rogue is very satisfying, since they are blown sky high.
Artificer DW Rogue con: The extremely powerful, some say OP, focus ability Hail of Arrows only works with Archery skills. Also, Leaping Shot is much more effective at fueling Looked Like It Hurt for infinite stamina regen than any DW Rogue skill.
So as you can see, it's not so much pro/con for a DW Rogue. It's more pro/con Archer vs. DW. For both specs.
|
|
inherit
908
0
Jan 29, 2020 16:16:43 GMT
23
bigdawg13
22
Aug 11, 2016 18:56:48 GMT
August 2016
bigdawg13
|
Post by bigdawg13 on Sept 1, 2016 18:45:08 GMT
My favorite rogue play through of all time was a Tempest DW rogue. In fact, it's the only one I completely finished. Artificer really feels best as an archer. I was able to play a DW artificer, but it felt like I was trying to fit a square peg in a round hole the whole time. Most of the Artificer tree was ignored outside of Opportunity Knocks passive.
Tempest just plays great. I love the utility of Flask of Lightning. Easy to shut down a rift, to escape, or re-position. I love skills with utility like that. Flask of Fire basically is an "artificer" mode that lets you spam abilities while it's active. And with that skill (and throwing knives), you can kill ANYTHING just as quickly as any other rogue spec. Flask of Frost lets you do on-command cross-class combos and it's just great for wading into combat to kill things without carefully positioning yourself with stealth. I think I got rid of stealth on my bar after a while as a Tempest. Just jump into the fray and KILL EVERYTHING.
I know you don't like assassin (and I didn't either), but Hidden Blades is really nice for killing despair demons.
If you are playing PC there is a mod you can use that lets you swap specializations whenever you want. You can mix-n-match if you want, but I never did that. But it lets me explore the other trees to see how they compared. Often times mid-game (level 18-ish) I start wondering about grass being greener on the other side. That mod let me do a quick test drive with the other specs and invariably I found myself loving one spec far more than the others.
|
|
duckley
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 526 Likes: 830
inherit
625
0
Mar 28, 2024 22:27:57 GMT
830
duckley
526
August 2016
duckley
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by duckley on Sept 1, 2016 23:35:45 GMT
Thanks. I think I will try tempest. Unfortunately I am not on a PC.
|
|
inherit
1324
0
2,258
spacev3gan
1,059
Aug 28, 2016 22:05:52 GMT
August 2016
spacev3gan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
SpaceV3gan
|
Post by spacev3gan on Sept 7, 2016 23:56:46 GMT
I find DW Artificer really fun and Artificer in general to be super fun. What makes this class shine for me is the extremely fast cooldown and the Elemental Mines. Most people select the tempest due to its Flask of Fire skill which eliminates cooldown. However, with the Artificer's Opportunity Knocks Passive and a high Crit Chance (70% or higher), you will pretty much be in Flask of Fire state permanently. And the high Crit Chance works wonders with the Passive Looks like it hurts and the Sigil of the Great Bear. Another great advantage of the Artificer over other specializations is AOE damage - the Artificer is the only Rogue capable of AOE damage thanks to Elemental Mines, which helps a lot when it comes to killing large mobs of enemies.
As for Boss killing, the Archer Artificer is far superior to the DW one, there is no comparison. The Artificer Focus Ability is unfortunately Archer-only. The DW Assassin and the DW Tempest also outclass the DW Artificer when it comes to Boss killing.
Now even behind the competitors, the DW Artificer is still a decent Boss killer. This is a video I made a few days ago:
|
|
Julilla
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 321 Likes: 841
inherit
415
0
Mar 25, 2024 18:22:05 GMT
841
Julilla
321
August 2016
julilla
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Julilla on Sept 10, 2016 3:00:20 GMT
Spacev, that was amazing!
|
|
Adhin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 512 Likes: 523
inherit
996
0
Sept 3, 2017 12:01:10 GMT
523
Adhin
512
Aug 15, 2016 13:14:38 GMT
August 2016
adhin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Adhin on Sept 12, 2016 1:43:05 GMT
Yeah, Artificer all day every day for me. I had to struggle to pick Tempest on my recent rogue 'just for something different'. I think Focus ability is mostly pointless for the main character due to our base one being more then good enough to compensate.
Thing to keep in mind your not seeing in that video (which is pointless if your maxed that well I guess) - the crit = CD reduction is party wide for your character. That is, ANY crit by ANY party member (including your self) reduces your cooldowns. If everyones at 30-50% you can just do whatever you freakin' want all the damn time.
Add the whole 10 stamina per crit ability into the mix aaand yup. Tons of stamina, CD are a joke.
Plus you get to throw dat sparkly candy! explosive candy is the best.
|
|
inherit
115
0
Mar 25, 2024 23:52:17 GMT
2,711
capn233
1,708
August 2016
capn233
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by capn233 on Sept 13, 2016 0:57:08 GMT
I probably like Artificer the most overall since it seems to have more fun abilities. Assassin felt more like a classic rogue / stealth character. Tempest is alright I guess, but the flask style mostly just improves vanilla rogue powers. Of course if you want to just go straight in and punch stuff in the face as a rogue, this makes sense. Also second that Throwing Blades is pretty amusing under FoF (as long as a Jedi doesn't block it. ).
|
|
inherit
1576
0
Sept 14, 2016 22:26:17 GMT
8
mckrackin5324
2
Sept 14, 2016 15:32:23 GMT
September 2016
mckrackin5324
|
Post by mckrackin5324 on Sept 14, 2016 15:39:31 GMT
I am a DW Rouge and am debating between artificer or tempest.. l know lots of folks like assassin but I like more direct hack N slash fighting style so not sure that's for me What are the pros and cons of each Specialization? Whatever you choose,don't choose the same one as another rogue in your party. I play as an assassin because of Hidden Blades. Sera is in my group and she is a Tempest. When Thousand Cuts will be handy,I use her. As an assassin...I have three instant ranged attacks that can be launched together for about 20,000 damage in under a second. So...Mark of the Rift/Hidden Blades/Throwing knives/and that brass knuckle throwing thing I forget(haha)and even a dragon is badly hurt. Everything else is probably dead. Hidden Blades even takes out large groups of bad guys in a single launch. Mark of the Rift and Thousand Cuts is an OPAF combo any time though.
|
|
ioannisdenton
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: Demis_Denton
Posts: 654 Likes: 844
inherit
564
0
Jul 17, 2019 13:05:17 GMT
844
ioannisdenton
654
August 2016
ioannisdenton
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Demis_Denton
|
Post by ioannisdenton on Sept 15, 2016 7:58:05 GMT
Damn it guys!! i was planning for my 3rd playthrough to play as a mage as i have not played as a mage yet. my previous inquisitors were assassin rogue (i loved it due to stealth) and reaver warrior 2h (i also loved it due to synergy with static cage but daaaaaaaamn! tempest looks sweet!!! should i skip mage playthrough?
|
|
Adhin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 512 Likes: 523
inherit
996
0
Sept 3, 2017 12:01:10 GMT
523
Adhin
512
Aug 15, 2016 13:14:38 GMT
August 2016
adhin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Adhin on Sept 15, 2016 12:54:05 GMT
Mages are pretty awesome but you gadda know what you wanna do since it kinda goes all over the place. Also not all there passives work for everything you wanna do unlike every other class that exists which can be a bummer if your levels push high up there. Like if you personally don't generate barriers that's 3 passives you have 0 use for lol.
If you love melee, Enchanter is nice but if you want a different experience considering your Rogue and Reaver addicition (I feel ya man...) I'd go Rift Mage. They are one of the only classes that can by them selves set up a cross class combo (Templar can too). Lightning shock effect (so any lightning spell or last hit from lightning staff chain) then Weaken (the 3 abilities Rift get have a weaken upgrade) results in Sleep. Which is a rogue CC effect, then just any mage detonator (such as the Rift mages attack which is spirit) will detonate it for solid dmg.
As a side note - Templars, srsly also. They have an Eldritch detonator with there personal AoE dispell and they have an AoE Stun effect lol. Stun -> Dispell the stun for MASSIVE spirit dmg lol. It's an AoE FU to everything (with massive bonus additional bonus dmg vs demons).
Anyway, play what you want, if you really wanna try a mage for a change, do it man. I recommend Rift Mage for that 'im a bad ass mage' feel with not needin' no one for your own crossclass combos. Or tank it up with a Knight Enchanter.
edit: As an aside I'm currently making a dual-dagger (double-blades) tank/skirmisher rogue. 5% max life per hit life leech from poison weapon upgrade and Artificer CD's reduction is pretty hilarious.
|
|
ioannisdenton
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
PSN: Demis_Denton
Posts: 654 Likes: 844
inherit
564
0
Jul 17, 2019 13:05:17 GMT
844
ioannisdenton
654
August 2016
ioannisdenton
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Demis_Denton
|
Post by ioannisdenton on Sept 15, 2016 16:24:11 GMT
Mages are pretty awesome but you gadda know what you wanna do since it kinda goes all over the place. Also not all there passives work for everything you wanna do unlike every other class that exists which can be a bummer if your levels push high up there. Like if you personally don't generate barriers that's 3 passives you have 0 use for lol. If you love melee, Enchanter is nice but if you want a different experience considering your Rogue and Reaver addicition (I feel ya man...) I'd go Rift Mage. They are one of the only classes that can by them selves set up a cross class combo (Templar can too). Lightning shock effect (so any lightning spell or last hit from lightning staff chain) then Weaken (the 3 abilities Rift get have a weaken upgrade) results in Sleep. Which is a rogue CC effect, then just any mage detonator (such as the Rift mages attack which is spirit) will detonate it for solid dmg. As a side note - Templars, srsly also. They have an Eldritch detonator with there personal AoE dispell and they have an AoE Stun effect lol. Stun -> Dispell the stun for MASSIVE spirit dmg lol. It's an AoE FU to everything (with massive bonus additional bonus dmg vs demons). Anyway, play what you want, if you really wanna try a mage for a change, do it man. I recommend Rift Mage for that 'im a bad ass mage' feel with not needin' no one for your own crossclass combos. Or tank it up with a Knight Enchanter. edit: As an aside I'm currently making a dual-dagger (double-blades) tank/skirmisher rogue. 5% max life per hit life leech from poison weapon upgrade and Artificer CD's reduction is pretty hilarious. Thing is i play always on all Da games with FF enabled so the massive area of the singularity gravitational spell (cannot remember its name) is kinda selddestructing. On da2 force mage was totally palyable though
|
|
Adhin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 512 Likes: 523
inherit
996
0
Sept 3, 2017 12:01:10 GMT
523
Adhin
512
Aug 15, 2016 13:14:38 GMT
August 2016
adhin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Adhin on Sept 15, 2016 16:37:34 GMT
Ahh 'Friendly Fire' yes. I generally prefer it being on in RPG's but it hasn't been done well, or right, in Dragon Age since DAO. The amount of shit that ignores it in DAI that shouldn't vs stuff that shouldn't ignore it but does is just... weird. Unless they've done a 100% complete sweep of that and fixed all the baffling 'wtf?' issues with it I've just resolved to keep it off since the first week. From what I remember your party could run through Firewalls all willy nilly but Chain Lightning prioritized your party over enemies. So what should be a friendly spell just fucked up your party lol. And the giant unmoving wall of fire was somehow magically ignored by FF. Either way theres way to play around that. It's not like you don't know the radius of the spell, it's something you place not something that just crops up on your target. Easy enough to ensure it doesn't hit your tank but collects baddies in front of them. Same with the AoE knockdown. The 500% spirit dmg blast thingy with a name I keep forgetting is single target by default, weaken upgrade makes it AoE - no idea if it plays nice with FF or not though. Does have the 2nd upgrade that just throws enemies and keeps it single target. ...I'd definitely avoid the 15 seconds of 55 death meteors from the sky focus skill though LOL. That'll screw your day over with FF on pretty fast if your not super careful.
|
|
inherit
✜ Forge Mechanic
352
0
Aug 30, 2023 16:01:17 GMT
6,256
PapaCharlie9
3,851
August 2016
papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 15, 2016 18:24:24 GMT
If you have FF on, playing a mage can be fun for the challenge.
You can have both: play a mage, but have Sera in the party and you can switch to her to scratch your Tempest itch. You can respec her to DW if you want.
|
|
inherit
115
0
Mar 25, 2024 23:52:17 GMT
2,711
capn233
1,708
August 2016
capn233
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by capn233 on Sept 16, 2016 2:33:06 GMT
Ahh 'Friendly Fire' yes. I generally prefer it being on in RPG's but it hasn't been done well, or right, in Dragon Age since DAO. ... From what I remember your party could run through Firewalls all willy nilly but Chain Lightning prioritized your party over enemies. Right, I have played the campaign mostly with FF on despite recognizing that it is completely half baked in this game. I have thought about just turning it off and leaving it off though. Chain Lightning is one of the top two idiotic FF things in the game, but the even more amusing one is Terrifying Fury in the Reaver Tree. You're such a killing machine you scare your own party... and if you are Qunari you might scare yourself. I guess FF was really only in DAI to make a small subset of players happy.
|
|
Adhin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 512 Likes: 523
inherit
996
0
Sept 3, 2017 12:01:10 GMT
523
Adhin
512
Aug 15, 2016 13:14:38 GMT
August 2016
adhin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Adhin on Sept 16, 2016 3:15:40 GMT
Ahh 'Friendly Fire' yes. I generally prefer it being on in RPG's but it hasn't been done well, or right, in Dragon Age since DAO. ... From what I remember your party could run through Firewalls all willy nilly but Chain Lightning prioritized your party over enemies. Right, I have played the campaign mostly with FF on despite recognizing that it is completely half baked in this game. I have thought about just turning it off and leaving it off though. Chain Lightning is one of the top two idiotic FF things in the game, but the even more amusing one is Terrifying Fury in the Reaver Tree. You're such a killing machine you scare your own party... and if you are Qunari you might scare yourself. I guess FF was really only in DAI to make a small subset of players happy. LOL Oh man rarely get that fear passive but that is hilarious. You can tell they never tested the game with FF on for balance. The game is very much designed around it not being there and FF was this weird half done after through. It's a bummer, seems pretty simple. Never liked how DA2 (can't remember if DAI does it) makes it so warrior base attacks also just kills friendlies. I mean, I know it's 'technically' AoE but that's one of those difficult to control bits and you'd think the warrior just wouldn't swing in a manner that cuts his friends head off. Whirlwind in DnD (using your turn to hit all things around you in melee range) doesn't effect friendlies if there right next to you. Simply because it's understood you wouldn't 'do' that to your friends lol.
|
|
inherit
115
0
Mar 25, 2024 23:52:17 GMT
2,711
capn233
1,708
August 2016
capn233
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by capn233 on Sept 16, 2016 4:15:31 GMT
^Auto attacks in DAI don't hit friendlies. Also masterworks won't do FF, even if the normal version of the power does (although I remember someone saying Walking Bomb masterwork would sometimes do FF, but I don't remember seeing that one myself).
Mostly I keep FF on in DAI so I don't get tempted to just drop Fire Mines under the melee units over and over.
|
|
inherit
ღ Voice of Reason
169
0
15,780
Element Zero
6,931
August 2016
elementzero
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Element Zero on Sept 17, 2016 5:16:53 GMT
I came looking for this very thread, only with the Archer Rogue in mind. I typically play Mages, and my current character is the first Rogue with whom I've really enjoyed the game. (I quit DAI shortly after release, and just rediscovered the post-Trespasser goodness.)
I'm not overwhelmed by any of the three Specializations for the Archer. How do they play? I'd like to play my archer as an actual archer, sans outrageous gimmicks.
I can clearly see that the Artificer would be all about constantly resetting cooldowns and stamina, based upon the passive(s) and my equipment. It's not thrilling to know that I'd not likely use any of the mine abilities, especially considering how many skill points one really acquires. As I approach level 25, I'm often looking for a passive or non-disruptive place to spend my points. By level 28, I'm investing in stuff I'll never use, anyway. So, I guess Artificer seems effective but maybe boring.
Tempest I'm less familiar with, as I've never once used Sera. (Two complete playthroughs, several partial.) I like her well enough, just not as much as others. I grasp it's based upon incredible speed and features some nifty defensive tricks. I'm unconvinced. How do these work in practice?
Assassin I am struggling to understand as a ranged specialization. It's powers don't say they are melee powers, but the descriptive text certainly suggests as much. Also, while I haven't actively used Cole in combat, I've watched him at work extensively. He is great, but not what I'm looking for in an archer. Does an Assassin Archer still play like an archer? I'd rather not have my archer flashing into melee, even as a shadowy specter, when I sue my skills. Am I off base?
I know I could've educated myself with a bit of exploratory gameplay and/or gameplay videos, but I'm in a position to do neither, at the moment. I figured I may as well ask my questions here. I've been away ill for a bit, and it's good to be back in the forum, posting instead of lurking.
|
|
Adhin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 512 Likes: 523
inherit
996
0
Sept 3, 2017 12:01:10 GMT
523
Adhin
512
Aug 15, 2016 13:14:38 GMT
August 2016
adhin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Adhin on Sept 17, 2016 11:48:07 GMT
The Assassin abilities aren't really melee oriented, or range oriented for that matter. They got 3 things, a 'curse' for lack of better term you apply to a target that keeps track of all dmg done for it's duration. This can be ranged, melee, doesn't matter. It keeps track of all dmg from all sources (including team mates) so that's a rather universal ability. Trigger it early nets you bonus dmg to the point of it being a rather stark difference between letting it run out and detonating it early. Other Assassin stuff is basically a super high dmg (1800%) dagger toss ability, so it's ranged, and a 10second AoE CC ability. Passives are moslty oriented around stealth, getting stealth back or auto-crits from stealth. So you do stuff like stealth, mark target from stealth then use the 1800% dmg dagger skill or longshot to get absurd high auto-crit dmg. Lets you focus on crit dmg instead of crit chance. Tempest, to me anyway, is like a shitty Artificer. Instead of having passives that handle stuff for you along with some awesome skills (that I think get overlooked to often) you have long CD self buffs that do it. The 2 big ones are Lightning and Fire. Cold Flask is basically your defensive ability. Gives you maxed out 'defenses' (85% for all defense stats) and freezes enemies who hit you. So if you'd rather stand there instead of dodge out or do something else I guess that's one to use. Upgrades involve AoE Taunt or bonus shatter dmg that's an AoE. Lightning flask slows time and gives you bonus dmg (I think). Upgrades is extra slow + bonus duration or knock enemies back while times slowed. It's another mostly defensive ability that I guess can let you setup shots? Fire Flask is the main reason anyone plays it (and again is basically toggle Artificer mode on). All skills cost no stamina at base. Upgrade also removes the CD, or the other upgrade gives you +2 duration on the buff for each unique ability you use with it up. So you'd have to cycle abilities over and over to try and keep it going. Tempest passives all involve flask and potions. Nothing that'll help anything else you have. And tries to force a gameplay style of cycling between flasks even if it has no benefit. Such as gaining +2 seconds on the next flask you use if yuou just used a different flask. So say you use Frost Flask 'just cause', then when it wares off you use Lightning which now has +2 duration, then Fire which... I guess only gets +2, maybe +4? I dunno never bothered with it since I don't want to juggle useless flasks lol. As far as the Artificer your 'build' as an Artificer will generally be whatever skills you pick before the specialization unless you want to incorporate explosives (which are more powerful and fun then people give em credit for). though I would say for the most part they're more useful to melee characters due to there range. 2 of the passives help the whole party too. +5% crit chance for everyone and 10% bonus dmg/duration for everyone is pretty solid. Boring, sure, cause it's just passives. As far as the abilities you have the one I never use which lets you mark an area to teleport back to which keeps track of your HP at the time of placement. So you can kinda use it as a get out of shit free card along with healing any health you lost. Down side is it has a very limited duration. So it would be more of a , use it then rush in, do some crazy shit then use it to get back out. Never been a big fan of the ability. As far as the other 2 abilities you got one that can be used in melee or entirely as a defensive attack. Spike Trap is minor CC explosive. It'll throw people into the air, knocking them to the ground for anything that can be pushed/knocked down. So it can make for a good 'oh no something snuck up on me' thing. Keep it at your feet and if something runs up, BOOM, gives you time to get out. Upgrades either letting you place in stealth with out breaking it or targets bleed. My favorite ability though is the elemental mines. They seem weak (only 50% dmg?) but you throw a lot of em. 8 at base, so 400% total dmg and one upgrade literally lets you expend ALL your remaining stamina (past 50) to create more of them. 5 per stamina so at base it's 18, +40 stamin amulet nets you another 8 for 26. Get the Bear sigil which doubles your stamina and your looking at 38 (or 46 I'm not sure how that's calculated with +40 amulet and the sigil). It creates a literal candy mind field of death. Useful for melee for sure, but as an archer it creates a whole lot of shit for stuff to get through just to get to you. I like throwing it out and sitting in it in MP to force stealthed enemies or other such stuff to get into. Like those stupid fear demons? Teleport into the candy field, good times. Anyway, I wouldn't consider Artificer 'boring' just cause it's main appeal is a CD reduction passive. If your an archer the bulk of what you do is gonna be using archery abilities. And no specialization is ever going to really change that. All they can do is augment or give other options to add or replace those abilities. I personally just can't find Tempest fun. It takes up ability slots for what Artificer can do passively.. except the lightning/frost thing. but slowing time isn't that fun or useful. And I don't really want a tank ability on my archers. Also the flask CD's are 30 fucking seconds, wtf. They take so damn long just to get used again guh. 5 seconds of fun every half minute. Rather just have that fun all the time. edit: as an aside, the Tempest archer I was making I deleted after a few hours of getting Tempest. Just can't do it, ended up remaking her as an Assassin. I figure throwing phantom shadowy killers via a dagger and using that 'curse' fit the whole shamany archer idea I had better anyway.
|
|
inherit
ღ Voice of Reason
169
0
15,780
Element Zero
6,931
August 2016
elementzero
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Element Zero on Sept 17, 2016 15:58:05 GMT
Thanks, Adhin. That was an amazing breakdown, using both gameplay and mechanical reasoning points. I really appreciate it. You made Assassin and Artificer sound intriguing. It seems Tempest is exactly is what I thought. I can see the appeal for some, but it's not what I'm looking to play. I think I will likely go with Assassin, taking advantage of the easy to create crit-damage build. (My crit damage is already through the roof with minimal effort.) I'll save the Artificer for an eventual melee Rogue. I could see that being fun to play for a dw or an archer.
|
|
Adhin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 512 Likes: 523
inherit
996
0
Sept 3, 2017 12:01:10 GMT
523
Adhin
512
Aug 15, 2016 13:14:38 GMT
August 2016
adhin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Adhin on Sept 17, 2016 17:09:18 GMT
Hey no problem man Careful with Assassin Archers. They have the highest burst DPS. Even more so with that stealth upgrade that lingers for 3 seconds. I think the Mark can actually crit when you detonate early lol. It ehh, it can get outa hand real quick (in a dragon dies in 6 seconds kinda way).
|
|
inherit
✜ Forge Mechanic
352
0
Aug 30, 2023 16:01:17 GMT
6,256
PapaCharlie9
3,851
August 2016
papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 17, 2016 20:48:04 GMT
Tempest, to me anyway, is like a shitty Artificer. Instead of having passives that handle stuff for you along with some awesome skills (that I think get overlooked to often) you have long CD self buffs that do it. The 2 big ones are Lightning and Fire. Cold Flask is basically your defensive ability. Gives you maxed out 'defenses' (85% for all defense stats) and freezes enemies who hit you. So if you'd rather stand there instead of dodge out or do something else I guess that's one to use. Upgrades involve AoE Taunt or bonus shatter dmg that's an AoE. Lightning flask slows time and gives you bonus dmg (I think). Upgrades is extra slow + bonus duration or knock enemies back while times slowed. It's another mostly defensive ability that I guess can let you setup shots? Fire Flask is the main reason anyone plays it (and again is basically toggle Artificer mode on). All skills cost no stamina at base. Upgrade also removes the CD, or the other upgrade gives you +2 duration on the buff for each unique ability you use with it up. So you'd have to cycle abilities over and over to try and keep it going. Tempest passives all involve flask and potions. Nothing that'll help anything else you have. And tries to force a gameplay style of cycling between flasks even if it has no benefit. Such as gaining +2 seconds on the next flask you use if yuou just used a different flask. So say you use Frost Flask 'just cause', then when it wares off you use Lightning which now has +2 duration, then Fire which... I guess only gets +2, maybe +4? I dunno never bothered with it since I don't want to juggle useless flasks lol. While I don't disagree with any of the facts about Tempest, I do disagree about dismissing it. Yes, optimal play does mean using the abilities in a certain way -- but what spec is that not true for? Everything is on a spectrum. I'll agree that Tempest is more towards the you-have-to-adapt-to-it side of the spectrum, but no more so that Assassin. Arguably Assassin is worse. Tempest works best on a DW Rogue. That's where Flask of Frost really comes in to play. And while it's true Flask of Flame gives the most value, I wouldn't say it's the only one worth using. Flask of Lightning as a primer for Flask of Flame by way of Ride the Storm, with Killer's Alchemy damage buffs stacked on top, is not a mechanic to dismiss so easily. An extra +2 seconds can result in a significant amount of damage because of all the stacking bonuses, if you play it right. Read BigDawg's post above about DW Tempest, he put it more eloquently than I can: bsn.boards.net/post/51707/thread
|
|
inherit
✜ Forge Mechanic
352
0
Aug 30, 2023 16:01:17 GMT
6,256
PapaCharlie9
3,851
August 2016
papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 17, 2016 20:55:48 GMT
Thanks, Adhin . That was an amazing breakdown, using both gameplay and mechanical reasoning points. I really appreciate it. You made Assassin and Artificer sound intriguing. It seems Tempest is exactly is what I thought. I can see the appeal for some, but it's not what I'm looking to play. I think I will likely go with Assassin, taking advantage of the easy to create crit-damage build. (My crit damage is already through the roof with minimal effort.) I'll save the Artificer for an eventual melee Rogue. I could see that being fun to play for a dw or an archer. Here's what I recommend for each spec: Assassin: Archer is easier, DW is more visceral. Either can be played optimally, due to each having a free move to stealth ability (Leaping Shot and Flank Attack, respectively). Stealth is critical for Assassin because of Knife In The Shadows. Artificer: Works best for Archer, due to Leaping Shot being the best way to generate critical hits for Looked Like It Hurt and Opportunity Knocks. Tempest: Works best for DW, due to Flask of Frost and Flask of Lightning mechanics. Unless you make an Archer build solely around Flask of Flame/Flaming Chain. I've done that, it's fun! So don't save Artificer for DW. Instead, save Artificer for a time when you don't mind your Archer doing non-Archery things.
|
|
Adhin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 512 Likes: 523
inherit
996
0
Sept 3, 2017 12:01:10 GMT
523
Adhin
512
Aug 15, 2016 13:14:38 GMT
August 2016
adhin
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Adhin on Sept 17, 2016 21:37:45 GMT
Dual-wielding AoE weapons potential works better then Leaping Shot for that. Especially considering leaping shot rarely hits with everything it has as it spreads out. Sides, the CD on crit passive is party wide. Unless your solo'ing you want the whole party kicking out crits to take advantage of that, not a reliance on a single archer ability.
I still think Artificer abilities benefit melee more, or at least are more enjoyable to use as a melee rogue. Specifically the explosives anyway. Only part of the class I'd say actually 'works best' for an archer is the focus. And I'd still rather use the Inquisitors special focus. That is 100% personal preference though. Doubling all ranged attacks for so long is pretty crazy.
|
|
inherit
ღ Voice of Reason
169
0
15,780
Element Zero
6,931
August 2016
elementzero
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Element Zero on Sept 17, 2016 22:40:42 GMT
Thanks, Adhin . That was an amazing breakdown, using both gameplay and mechanical reasoning points. I really appreciate it. You made Assassin and Artificer sound intriguing. It seems Tempest is exactly is what I thought. I can see the appeal for some, but it's not what I'm looking to play. I think I will likely go with Assassin, taking advantage of the easy to create crit-damage build. (My crit damage is already through the roof with minimal effort.) I'll save the Artificer for an eventual melee Rogue. I could see that being fun to play for a dw or an archer. Here's what I recommend for each spec: Assassin: Archer is easier, DW is more visceral. Either can be played optimally, due to each having a free move to stealth ability (Leaping Shot and Flank Attack, respectively). Stealth is critical for Assassin because of Knife In The Shadows. Artificer: Works best for Archer, due to Leaping Shot being the best way to generate critical hits for Looked Like It Hurt and Opportunity Knocks. Tempest: Works best for DW, due to Flask of Frost and Flask of Lightning mechanics. Unless you make an Archer build solely around Flask of Flame/Flaming Chain. I've done that, it's fun! So don't save Artificer for DW. Instead, save Artificer for a time when you don't mind your Archer doing non-Archery things. Yeah, I see the optimal path for Artificer and Tempest lies with archer and dw, respectively. I just think a melee Artificer would be fun RP-wise. It would be hard to pass up the insane power and durability of the a Tempest on a DW, though. I'm not a big DW-rogue guy, so I'm not sure when I'll get around to either. We shall see. The Specializations definitely seem designed with melee in mind, and archers as an afterthought. I ended up choosing Assassin, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it okay. Using stealth more actively to destroy with crits will work both mechanically and for my mental image of my archer. He's a Dalish hunter, and an archer who strikes from the shadows works pretty well. I really need to get around to playing a Trevelyan, finally. Maybe he will be a DW Tempest. I hate the over-sized weapons and armor of this IP, with the "daggers" being the worst offenders. If I can get past that and my love for Mages, maybe that will be my next character.
|
|