Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Apr 20, 2017 17:25:19 GMT
Why? She is Cailan's widow and was Queen consort for 5 years and everyone knows that,it does not need to be proved the fact that she is a noble.On the other hand nothing about Alistair legacy can be proved or now I'm going to pick a blonde pesant from Haven and force Eamon to claim that he is son of Maric. I had Eamon on the wrong side of Cailan"s family. Without blood ties to Maric, he has no claim at all. Fereldan succession is clearly based on bloodlines. Maric became King by right of birth. Unless somone wants to trace the bloodline back before the Orlesian occupation, direct descendants of Maric are all we have. Now, since the actual selection is elective (much the same as the Holy Roman Empire used) you could conceivably choose any noble, but without an obvious favourite that's a great way to start a war (see The War of Austrian Succession).
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 20, 2017 18:04:37 GMT
It was stated somewhere (may be in the game guide to DAO) that if the Theirin bloodline fails, then the next in line for the throne would be the Couslands. In fact after Maric died (disappeared) the Landsmeet almost voted in Bryce Cousland as king instead of Cailan. This is presumably why they make the Warden the second born of the family and why Loghain wouldn't have been particularly upset that Howe took their family out of the picture. It is also why a Cousland Warden stepping in and marrying either Alistair or Anora was considered acceptable to the Banns. So Alistair was the one who had it wrong about the line of succession. Eamon might have been a king maker but he wasn't in line to be king himself. Since Fergus Cousland does survive the events of DAO, if Alistair abdicates or dies then Fergus could conceivably have stepped in and married Anora (although the epilogue suggests this doesn't happen) or, assuming he does his duty and takes a second wife, his son/daughter would be in line for the throne after Anora dies childless through not marrying again.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 20, 2017 18:12:25 GMT
Some people just aren't born with healthy minds. And being a mage is a dangerous situation. Especially if you actually use magic. Double especially if you use blood magic. I said: the life is dangerous. I just don't understand, why need to spoil a healthy mind with unnecessary stress factors. Evelina, Huon, and Meredith's sister etc would be able to live a normal life without the Circle's threaten. The people in Kirkwall would be able to live a normal life without the Circle's threaten... You did say the life is dangerous. You never explained how that's an argument for avoiding making it less so. And you still haven't answered my question: if we're not doing this, how do we test to make sure mages are reasonably capable of resisting possession? As for mages being able to live a normal life without the forced Circles... Huon and Evelina? Probably. They passed the Harrowing. The whole point to that test is that it shows you're less likely to become an abomination. Amelia? Probably not, because she provably can't handle both stress and her powers at the same time. Do you think there's nothing else in Thedas (or even in Kirkwall) that could have stressed her out enough to turn? You're not wrong that the life is dangerous, even if I don't agree with the way you use that point. And there's just too damn much going on in Kirkwall to say with a straight face that things would be normal if the Circle wasn't there.
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Post by oyabun on Apr 20, 2017 18:12:31 GMT
Except that you have no way to prove that Alistair is son of Maric that makes his calim by far more weak tahn both Eamon and Anora,which in fact as queen consort was already a memeber of the crown. Eamon arl have proof, I suppose, and if not, then Alistair could be his bastard too. The people knew, that Alistair grew up in his house. Anyway, I think, even Cousland stronger throne pretender, than Anora. Arle Eamon doesn't have proof to show that Alistair is son of Maric and it is entirely possible that he doesn't even know who Alsitair mother is. The Couslands aren't strong pretenders than Anora unless you was talking about Bryce which was dead at that point of the game or maybe even Fergus which disappeared until the end of the game.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 20, 2017 18:20:13 GMT
Eamon arl have proof, I suppose, and if not, then Alistair could be his bastard too. The people knew, that Alistair grew up in his house. Anyway, I think, even Cousland stronger throne pretender, than Anora. The Couslands aren't strong pretenders than Anora unless you was talking about Bryce which was dead at that point of the game or maybe even Fergus which disappeared until the end of the game. If we're just going by blood right, then yeah they are. Loghain and Anora are probably the only members of the Landsmeet who aren't descended from King Calenhad. Of course, Ferelden doesn't just go by blood right.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 20, 2017 18:41:53 GMT
Eamon arl have proof, I suppose, and if not, then Alistair could be his bastard too. The people knew, that Alistair grew up in his house. Anyway, I think, even Cousland stronger throne pretender, than Anora. Arle Eamon doesnìt have proof to show that Alistair is son of Maric. The Couslands aren't strong pretenders than Anora unless you was talking about Bryce,but he was dead at that point of the game. Cousland one of the most powerful noble family in Ferelden. Fergus (and the Warden) is Bryce's son. Anora only a queen consort, and a regent at the moment. I like Anora as queen, but she is a regent in the interregnum at the moment. And daughter of the fallen (traitor?) hero. Anora not a strong throne pretender under such circumstances. Alistair, even if his origin not 100% sure (but Eamon at the moment more reliable then Loghain), a good choice (better with Anora –or Cousland*–, than alone), because he's (suppose) Maric's blood, and as such person, legitimate heir. This fact may provide, that the noble families do not start a war for the throne. ___ *Cousland would more logical to be the King, and Anora just queen consort again.
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Post by oyabun on Apr 20, 2017 18:43:25 GMT
The Couslands aren't strong pretenders than Anora unless you was talking about Bryce which was dead at that point of the game or maybe even Fergus which disappeared until the end of the game. If we're just going by blood right, then yeah they are. Loghain and Anora are probably the only members of the Landsmeet who aren't descended from King Calenhad. Of course, Ferelden doesn't just go by blood right. According to which logic they are? Anora as I've already proved is noble because both of her parents were nobles,the Couslands don't descend from Calenhad as well they descend from a commoner who was the guard of the noble family of Connobar ex husband of Flemeth. Being descendant of Calenhad is irrelevant,in previous Landsmeet they didn't wanted for people like Arland or Cailain to become kings despite being from that family.
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Post by oyabun on Apr 20, 2017 18:51:48 GMT
Arle Eamon doesnìt have proof to show that Alistair is son of Maric. The Couslands aren't strong pretenders than Anora unless you was talking about Bryce,but he was dead at that point of the game. Cousland one of the most powerful noble family in Ferelden. Fergus (and the Warden) is Bryce's son. Anora only a queen consort, and a regent at the moment. I like Anora as queen, but she is a regent in the interregnum at the moment. And daughter of the fallen (traitor?) hero. Anora not a strong throne pretender under such circumstances. Alistair, even if his origin not 100% sure (but Eamon at the moment more reliable then Loghain), a good choice (better with Anora –or Cousland*–, than alone), because he's (suppose) Maric's blood, and as such person, legitimate heir. This fact may provide, that the noble families do not start a war for the throne. ___ *Cousland would more logical to be the King, and Anora just queen consort again.It doesn't matter how much strong the Couslands are/were (since in DAO they were almost wiped out by Howe),they are not all equals just because they belong to the same family, Bryce >Fergus>Warden that's what more accurately represents their popularity. Anora is more stronger than Alistair just as any other nobles is in virtue of them being certified nobles. The issue is simple it's seem unrealistic to me that they are going to accept someone as Maric's son without having Maric to confirm that.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 20, 2017 18:53:23 GMT
If we're just going by blood right, then yeah they are. Loghain and Anora are probably the only members of the Landsmeet who aren't descended from King Calenhad. Of course, Ferelden doesn't just go by blood right. According to which logic they are? Anora as I've already proved is noble because both of her parents were nobles,Cousalnds don't descend from Calenhad as well. To the point being descendant of Calenhad is irrelevant,in previous Landsmeet they didn't wanted for people like Arland or Cailain to become kings despite being from that family. According to the logic that the royal family would want to marry into the most powerful noble families to get greater control of them, and the noble families would want to marry into the royal family to get preferential treatment. Also, I don't think you've actually proved Anora's mother is a noble. And in fact the wiki said she's the daughter of a cabinet maker. I agree that Anora would have been more likely to be able to marry Cailan if both her parents were of noble blood, but nothing else about Loghain's circumstances is normal, so why should this be?
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Post by Catilina on Apr 20, 2017 18:55:11 GMT
I said: the life is dangerous. I just don't understand, why need to spoil a healthy mind with unnecessary stress factors. Evelina, Huon, and Meredith's sister etc would be able to live a normal life without the Circle's threaten. The people in Kirkwall would be able to live a normal life without the Circle's threaten... You did say the life is dangerous. You never explained how that's an argument for avoiding making it less so. And you still haven't answered my question: if we're not doing this, how do we test to make sure mages are reasonably capable of resisting possession? As for mages being able to live a normal life without the forced Circles... Huon and Evelina? Probably. They passed the Harrowing. The whole point to that test is that it shows you're less likely to become an abomination. Amelia? Probably not, because she provably can't handle both stress and her powers at the same time. Do you think there's nothing else in Thedas (or even in Kirkwall) that could have stressed her out enough to turn? You're not wrong that the life is dangerous, even if I don't agree with the way you use that point. And there's just too damn much going on in Kirkwall to say with a straight face that things would be normal if the Circle wasn't there. Life is dangerous, but the danger can be reduced. Prison-Circles only increase the risk, and their "work" makes a bunch of dangerous people to even more dangerous. The school-Circles would be able to reduce the danger. Kirkwall wouldn't more dangerous, than every other port City-state during the war. Okay, Petrice (Chantry, and bigot Templars!) and Isabela also took a big part.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 20, 2017 19:00:41 GMT
Cousland one of the most powerful noble family in Ferelden. Fergus (and the Warden) is Bryce's son. Anora only a queen consort, and a regent at the moment. I like Anora as queen, but she is a regent in the interregnum at the moment. And daughter of the fallen (traitor?) hero. Anora not a strong throne pretender under such circumstances. Alistair, even if his origin not 100% sure (but Eamon at the moment more reliable then Loghain), a good choice (better with Anora –or Cousland*–, than alone), because he's (suppose) Maric's blood, and as such person, legitimate heir. This fact may provide, that the noble families do not start a war for the throne. ___ *Cousland would more logical to be the King, and Anora just queen consort again.It doesn't matter how much strong the Couslands are/were (since in DAO they were almost wiped out by Howe),they are not all equals just because they belong to the same family, Bryce >Fergus>Warden that's what more accurately represents their popularity. Anora is more stronger than Alistair just as any other nobles is in virtue of them being certified nobles. The noble bloodline matters in such a world. Your sequence of Couslands is correct. In virtue, of course, she is stronger, ot at least equal. She is pretty good as Queen, undoubtedly. I didn't speak about her virtues, a peasant also can be talented, but would not be entitled to the throne... (I know, she's not a peasant, but her family isn't strong – the head of the family is not reliable at this moment.)
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 20, 2017 19:03:40 GMT
You did say the life is dangerous. You never explained how that's an argument for avoiding making it less so. And you still haven't answered my question: if we're not doing this, how do we test to make sure mages are reasonably capable of resisting possession? As for mages being able to live a normal life without the forced Circles... Huon and Evelina? Probably. They passed the Harrowing. The whole point to that test is that it shows you're less likely to become an abomination. Amelia? Probably not, because she provably can't handle both stress and her powers at the same time. Do you think there's nothing else in Thedas (or even in Kirkwall) that could have stressed her out enough to turn? You're not wrong that the life is dangerous, even if I don't agree with the way you use that point. And there's just too damn much going on in Kirkwall to say with a straight face that things would be normal if the Circle wasn't there. Life is dangerous, but the danger can be reduced. Prison-Circles only increase the risk, and their "work" makes a bunch of dangerous people to even more dangerous. The school-Circles would be able to reduce the danger. By letting them out into society after they'd been properly trained. Ignoring the fact that even after a mage has been properly trained that mage can still dangerous whether or not they want to be, how do you know they've been properly trained without the Harrowing? What can be done to test that the mage is capable of going toe-to-toe and mind-to-mind with a demon under stressful circumstances, other than making them do it? I can't really dispute the fact that the Harrowing is risky, but you haven't given me any alternatives.You're forgetting the super-thin Veil, and whatever the Band of Three found.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 20, 2017 19:17:15 GMT
Life is dangerous, but the danger can be reduced. Prison-Circles only increase the risk, and their "work" makes a bunch of dangerous people to even more dangerous. The school-Circles would be able to reduce the danger. By letting them out into society after they'd been properly trained. Ignoring the fact that even after a mage has been properly trained that mage can still dangerous whether or not they want to be, how do you know they've been properly trained without the Harrowing? What can be done to test that the mage is capable of going toe-to-toe and mind-to-mind with a demon under stressful circumstances, other than making them do it? I can't really dispute the fact that the Harrowing is risky, but you haven't given me any alternatives.You're forgetting the super-thin Veil, and whatever the Band of Three found. 1. A light "Harrowing" more than enough. And safer. (We will never agree on this issues, so nevertheless walk around the question again, and again and again.) 2. No, I didn't. This is the one reason, why quite dangerous a Circle in Kirkwall...
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Post by phoray on Apr 20, 2017 19:17:32 GMT
According to which logic they are? Anora as I've already proved is noble because both of her parents were nobles,Cousalnds don't descend from Calenhad as well. To the point being descendant of Calenhad is irrelevant,in previous Landsmeet they didn't wanted for people like Arland or Cailain to become kings despite being from that family. According to the logic that the royal family would want to marry into the most powerful noble families to get greater control of them, and the noble families would want to marry into the royal family to get preferential treatment. Also, I don't think you've actually proved Anora's mother is a noble. And in fact the wiki said she's the daughter of a cabinet maker. I agree that Anora would have been more likely to be able to marry Cailan if both her parents were of noble blood, but nothing else about Loghain's circumstances is normal, so why should this be? Correct, Anora's moter is a cabinet maker. Loghain asked a local professional of his Teryn to give him a plan and a quote on repairing his ruined castle. They got ito an argument and fell in love. Loghain is not a noble in the eyes of the Bann- when they all just bowed their heads to Maric about it at the time and he was super popular. Maric is dead and Loghain is no longer super popular- e started a civil war and actually moved Against multiple nobles with murder and kidnapping. Tey are not going to respect a dead man's Knighting dring war times 40 years prior if that Knighting would gve any power to his demands to be King.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 20, 2017 19:21:39 GMT
By letting them out into society after they'd been properly trained. Ignoring the fact that even after a mage has been properly trained that mage can still dangerous whether or not they want to be, how do you know they've been properly trained without the Harrowing? What can be done to test that the mage is capable of going toe-to-toe and mind-to-mind with a demon under stressful circumstances, other than making them do it? I can't really dispute the fact that the Harrowing is risky, but you haven't given me any alternatives.You're forgetting the super-thin Veil, and whatever the Band of Three found. 1. A light "Harrowing" more than enough. And safer. (We will never agree on this issues, so nevertheless walk around the question again, and again and again.) 2. No, I didn't. This is the one reason, why quite dangerous a Circle in Kirkwall... 1: What would a "light" Harrowing look like? I might be able to agree with you, if you only explained what I'm supposed to agree with and explained why it would work. 2: So it's not just the Circle's brutality in this case? You don't think there should be a Circle in Kirkwall at all? Because I'm not sure I disagree there.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 20, 2017 19:45:02 GMT
1. A light "Harrowing" more than enough. And safer. (We will never agree on this issues, so nevertheless walk around the question again, and again and again.) 2. No, I didn't. This is the one reason, why quite dangerous a Circle in Kirkwall... 1: What would a "light" Harrowing look like? I might be able to agree with you, if you only explained what I'm supposed to agree with and explained why it would work. 2: So it's not just the Circle's brutality in this case? You don't think there should be a Circle in Kirkwall at all? Because I'm not sure I disagree there. 1. I said: Harrowing (or some similar) with help. Look at: the Harrowing with these conditions, only a stressor, and endangers the result. This poor was terrified by Chantry. How we know, that in a school-Circle under more humane circumstances this man wouldn't able for the test? Jowan didn't believe, that he capable of success the Harrowing, but he WAS able to success, we can see that, if we let him redeem himself. (Sadly, in this case, he will send back to the Circle...) Meredith's parents didn't believe, that their daughter would be able to success the Circle-tests, I think, they also were terrified. 2. Yes, as you said, in Kirkwall's case I speak about, that the Chantry wrongly chose the place for the Circle. (And Merediths was lunatic, and Elthina blind/malevolent)
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 20, 2017 19:55:24 GMT
1: What would a "light" Harrowing look like? I might be able to agree with you, if you only explained what I'm supposed to agree with and explained why it would work. 2: So it's not just the Circle's brutality in this case? You don't think there should be a Circle in Kirkwall at all? Because I'm not sure I disagree there. 1. I said: Harrowing (or some similar) with help. Look at: the Harrowing with these conditions, only a stressor, and endangers the result. This poor was terrified by Chantry. How we know, that in a school-Circle under more humane circumstances this man wouldn't able for the test? Jowan didn't believe, that he capable of success the Harrowing, but he WAS able to success, we can see that, if we let him redeem himself. (Sadly, in this case, he will send back to the Circle...) Meredith's parents didn't believe, that their daughter would be able to success the Circle-tests, I think, they also were terrified. 2. Yes, as you said, in Kirkwall's case I speak about, that the Chantry wrongly chose the place for the Circle. (And Merediths was lunatic, and Elthina blind/malevolent) 1: But if the mage passes with help, how do we know he can pass without it? If the test is too easy, the mage runs the risk of running into something harder in everyday life, especially if you let that mage out of the Circle to live a mostly-ordinary life. 2: Yeah, probably. I could picture having maybe a small group of Circle mages there to help the Templars put out any fires (figuratively speaking) but it's the wrong place to have a real Circle.
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Post by oyabun on Apr 20, 2017 20:13:45 GMT
According to the logic that the royal family would want to marry into the most powerful noble families to get greater control of them, and the noble families would want to marry into the royal family to get preferential treatment. Also, I don't think you've actually proved Anora's mother is a noble. And in fact the wiki said she's the daughter of a cabinet maker. I agree that Anora would have been more likely to be able to marry Cailan if both her parents were of noble blood, but nothing else about Loghain's circumstances is normal, so why should this be? Correct, Anora's moter is a cabinet maker. Loghain asked a local professional of his Teryn to give him a plan and a quote on repairing his ruined castle. They got ito an argument and fell in love. Loghain is not a noble in the eyes of the Bann- when they all just bowed their heads to Maric about it at the time and he was super popular. Maric is dead and Loghain is no longer super popular- e started a civil war and actually moved Against multiple nobles with murder and kidnapping. Tey are not going to respect a dead man's Knighting dring war times 40 years prior if that Knighting would gve any power to his demands to be King. Being a cabinet maker doesn't prove that she wasn't a noble. She was the representative of Gwaren that was tasked to talk with Loghain when he was sent there as Teryrn,I can't imagine her being representative of anyone in Gwaren without authority which comes frmo being a noble.
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Post by Harpie Lady on Apr 20, 2017 20:41:00 GMT
why Loghain wouldn't have been particularly upset that Howe took their family out of the picture. Didn't devs said that Howe killing the people in the castle of highever is completly unrelated with Loghain? For all we know he may had even be ignorant of all the schemes from Arle Howe since he was the way I see it more smart than Loghain. Since we are on the theme of the unpopular opinions,I liked that Howe was able to almost wipe out the Couslands like if it was nothing.
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Post by Catilina on Apr 20, 2017 21:09:59 GMT
why Loghain wouldn't have been particularly upset that Howe took their family out of the picture. [...] Since we are on the theme of the unpopular opinions,I liked that Howe was able to almost wipe out the Couslands like if it was nothing. Indeed! The betrayal and the massacre for more political power are a very honorable and brave thing. Who does not love it? And that glorious death! We really need a "Rendon Howe appreciation thread"!
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Post by Mark7 on Apr 20, 2017 21:49:56 GMT
oyabun there are no informations about Anora's Mother,Gaider was dumb enough to gave her two different names,she was just created as low lore material.
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Post by Harpie Lady on Apr 20, 2017 21:59:58 GMT
[...] Since we are on the theme of the unpopular opinions,I liked that Howe was able to almost wipe out the Couslands like if it was nothing. Indeed! The betrayal and the massacre for more political power are a very honorable and brave thing. Who does not love it? And that glorious death! We really need a "Rendon Howe appreciation thread"! Coming from the person who has gambled the whole world for their own interests,Ah ah ah!How ironic that they dare to judge someone who served his own interests just like they did for themselves.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Apr 20, 2017 22:06:05 GMT
Indeed! The betrayal and the massacre for more political power are a very honorable and brave thing. Who does not love it? And that glorious death! We really need a "Rendon Howe appreciation thread"! Coming from the person who has gambled the whole world for their own interests,Ah ah ah!How ironic that they dare to judge someone who served his own interests just like they did for themselves. What's your problem? Do you want to create the Howe romance topic? I'm in it, this glory is yours!
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Kei
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Jade Empire
Posts: 94 Likes: 128
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Jan 20, 2019 16:46:04 GMT
128
Kei
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Jan 21, 2017 15:40:51 GMT
January 2017
key
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Jade Empire
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Post by Kei on Apr 20, 2017 22:17:27 GMT
Indeed! The betrayal and the massacre for more political power are a very honorable and brave thing. Who does not love it? And that glorious death! We really need a "Rendon Howe appreciation thread"! Coming from the person who has gambled the whole world for their own interests,Ah ah ah!How ironic that they dare to judge someone who served his own interests just like they did for themselves. I don't like what Howe did but if the Warden is allowed to serve their own interests at the risk of others I can't see way Howe should be judged for doing his own interests either.
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Prince
N3
Posts: 275 Likes: 309
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Prince
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September 2016
principe
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Post by Prince on Apr 20, 2017 22:29:14 GMT
I liked that Howe was able to almost wipe out the Couslands like if it was nothing. I played with a noble warden,call me sadistic but I didn't cared at all when Bryce was murdered.
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