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Post by dreman999 on Apr 21, 2017 4:27:12 GMT
The question is, why Alec Ryder needed transfer his Pathfinder status at all. What if he had been killed before he could do anything? Avitus says something along the lines "Macen must be alive because the Pathfinder status wasn't transferred to me", so SAM should be able to do that on his own. I think our dear Alec was planning to do that the whole time, in order to save Ellen (though I doubt Cora would have let her die) and to cover up his "tweaks" to the human SAM and his implant. An AI able to control someone's body isn't going to be popular and one of his children is more likely to hush it up, especially since they have the same type of implant. Doubts about Cora's suitability as Pathfinder may have played a role, but not telling her about it would be real dick move. Maybe he just died at an inconvenient time and didn't get to that before, idk. And last, but not least, by transferring his status he enables SAM to gain control over his offspring's vital functions to save him/her. This ability seems to be restricted to the current Pathfinder, the implant alone apparently didn't do. Why someone has to be Pathfinder for SAM to do that and why they didn't make Cora Pathfinder after Ryder has recovered makes about as much sense as crashlanding a ship somewhere and take it as given that the crashsite belongs to you after that. So tl;dr: bad writing. Did you not find Alec's memories because it give you a clear answer that what you said is not a theory. |
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ApocAlypsE
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Apr 21, 2017 12:07:31 GMT
In an ideal scenario he would have chosen Cora over Ryder as pathfinder, but the situation was:
1. A life threatening condition of his child.
2. Cora isn't anywhere close to transfer the full SAM control to her.
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Psychedelic
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Post by Psychedelic on Apr 21, 2017 14:41:51 GMT
The question is, why Alec Ryder needed transfer his Pathfinder status at all. What if he had been killed before he could do anything? Avitus says something along the lines "Macen must be alive because the Pathfinder status wasn't transferred to me", so SAM should be able to do that on his own. I think our dear Alec was planning to do that the whole time, in order to save Ellen (though I doubt Cora would have let her die) and to cover up his "tweaks" to the human SAM and his implant. An AI able to control someone's body isn't going to be popular and one of his children is more likely to hush it up, especially since they have the same type of implant. Doubts about Cora's suitability as Pathfinder may have played a role, but not telling her about it would be real dick move. Maybe he just died at an inconvenient time and didn't get to that before, idk. And last, but not least, by transferring his status he enables SAM to gain control over his offspring's vital functions to save him/her. This ability seems to be restricted to the current Pathfinder, the implant alone apparently didn't do. Why someone has to be Pathfinder for SAM to do that and why they didn't make Cora Pathfinder after Ryder has recovered makes about as much sense as crashlanding a ship somewhere and take it as given that the crashsite belongs to you after that. So tl;dr: bad writing. Did you not find Alec's memories because it give you a clear answer that what you said is not a theory. I collected all the memory triggers, if you mean that, but that quest only revealed Ellen is alive and in Andromeda. Or did I miss something? And sooner or later the Initiative would have noticed there is something wrong with one of the cryopod's occupants, name and disease, without Ryder being Pathfinder. That can't be the only reason for Alec's doing. It would be a really shitty plan of his if Ellen's fate depended on that alone. |
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 21, 2017 15:44:47 GMT
Did you not find Alec's memories because it give you a clear answer that what you said is not a theory. I collected all the memory triggers, if you mean that, but that quest only revealed Ellen is alive and in Andromeda. Or did I miss something? And sooner or later the Initiative would have noticed there is something wrong with one of the cryopod's occupants, name and disease, without Ryder being Pathfinder. That can't be the only reason for Alec's doing. It would be a really shitty plan of his if Ellen's fate depended on that alone. It tells you why he made you pathfinder is because of ryder's mom in in cryo. I'm not saying you are wrong. Just your theory is a fact. That is spacificly why he made ryder pathfinder. |
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Post by salariansupremacist on Apr 21, 2017 15:54:51 GMT
Nepotism is the reason, really. Alec's obsession with saving Ellen led him to make the decision that Ryder would be the best candidate for fulfilling that goal due to their vested interest, plus she/he was dying at the time and the SAM transfer would stop that. I dig that our character hasn't really earned their role, it seems like a meta commentary on RPG protagonists as a whole, plus it gives you the opportunity to turn people round on you.
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Post by abaris on Apr 21, 2017 16:00:27 GMT
it seems like a meta commentary on RPG protagonists as a whole, plus it gives you the opportunity to turn people round on you. It is, but that's fine. As I said, most RPGs place guy/gal without merrit in the driver's seat for the player to feel special. This at least explains parts of the reasons why with the memory triggers and the audio archives in Alec's flat. If one can suspend disbelief as far as the memory triggers are concerned. I mean, how did he manage to place them all over the system in the first place? |
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Post by salariansupremacist on Apr 21, 2017 16:13:50 GMT
it seems like a meta commentary on RPG protagonists as a whole, plus it gives you the opportunity to turn people round on you. It is, but that's fine. As I said, most RPGs place guy/gal without merrit in the driver's seat for the player to feel special. This at least explains parts of the reasons why with the memory triggers and the audio archives in Alec's flat. If one can suspend disbelief as far as the memory triggers are concerned. I mean, how did he manage to place them all over the system in the first place? Yeah, the memory triggers don't even begin to make sense. Apparently Alec woke up super early to scale some ice mountains on Voeld or something. |
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Exile Isan
N3
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: ExileIsan
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Post by Exile Isan on Apr 21, 2017 16:32:10 GMT
Yeah, the memory triggers don't even begin to make sense. Apparently Alec woke up super early to scale some ice mountains on Voeld or something. They are not tied to a location, but Sara/Scott's progress as Pathfinder. SAM says this in game when you talk to him in SAM Node after the first trigger or when you find the first trigger on Eos, I can't remember which. |
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 21, 2017 16:39:04 GMT
In theory she is the Pathfinder. In reality it's Ryder.
...that's all.
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Post by salariansupremacist on Apr 21, 2017 16:44:09 GMT
Yeah, the memory triggers don't even begin to make sense. Apparently Alec woke up super early to scale some ice mountains on Voeld or something. They are not tied to a location, but Sara/Scott's progress as Pathfinder. SAM says this in game when you talk to him in SAM Node after the first trigger or when you find the first trigger on Eos, I can't remember which. Sure, SAM says that but it doesn't really play out that way. I'm not really complaining, games have gamey mechanics after all. In terms of the mechanics of the game though, you can progress as the pathfinder (terraform the worlds, start colonies, activate Meridian) without unlocking any memories. If you don't go to specific map locations, you don't get the memory, regardless of your competence. |
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Post by abaris on Apr 21, 2017 17:19:16 GMT
Yeah, the memory triggers don't even begin to make sense. Apparently Alec woke up super early to scale some ice mountains on Voeld or something. They are not tied to a location, but Sara/Scott's progress as Pathfinder. SAM says this in game when you talk to him in SAM Node after the first trigger or when you find the first trigger on Eos, I can't remember which. And yet they are tied to specific locations. The cold hard truth is, it's a fetch quest without any deeper meaning to the pathfinder's progress or achievements. Oh, and it's another opportunity to show off their new jump jets, since they're most often in otherwise inaccessable terrain. Like so many things you have to collect. |
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Post by parnashwind on Apr 21, 2017 17:46:34 GMT
 Because a Pathfinder is suppose to lead not follow.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 21, 2017 18:13:56 GMT
no e of which you can guarantee. Some people simply DO NOT grow into it. *looks at Ryder. Sure... Added you start to see it with Cora over time, especially on her loyalty mission. the very moment Cora is there she calms Vederia's 2nd in command down and bring up her moral. Even talk her to having the courage to fight kett on her own. She has it, she just does not know she has it. sure...parroting her mentor's manual, not on her own |
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Apr 21, 2017 18:15:29 GMT
she admits she does because she has a follower mentality. I am in sales, I am good at it because I have the kind of mentality that allows me to approach a customer correctly, no amount of teaching or practice will make up for it if someone lacks that. Don't attempt to synchronize any game premise with real life. In the Elder Scrolls series, you're always the nameless prisoner rising up to greatness. In Bioware games you're forced into a job you're not suited for. Well, apart from the original trilogy where it was a bit more logical to promote the second in command. But that's as far as it goes. The spectre promotion was already pulled from the hindparts as far as logical goes. They need you to be the lonsome wolf and hero right from the get go, since it would be that much harder to write a story that still delivers a sense of achievement. Ultimately that's all there is to it. so they engineer the characters accordingly, what's your point? |
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Post by kino on Apr 21, 2017 18:43:05 GMT
If I had to guess? The locked memories and plot twist towards the end. In the context of the story being told transferring SAM, and Pathfinder status, to his son/daughter makes sense. If SAM had been just a SAM, as on the other ARKs, then Cora would've made more sense, but this isn't the typical SAM.
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 868 Likes: 1,715
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Post by LogicGunn on Apr 21, 2017 19:07:07 GMT
Other than forcing her to be a crew mate why didn't the initiative just promote this girl to pathfinder and let her do her own thing? If things are as dire as everyone makes it sound then more pathfinders the better and she has been trained for the job. I am almost done with my second run through the game and I haven't found any info as to why this wouldn't happen, have I missed something that might explain this? Apologies if this is/was already discussed I didn't see a thread about this going back a few pages. I don't think you can be pathfinder without a SAM, and there were no spare SAMs lying around AFAIK. |
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Exile Isan
N3
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: ExileIsan
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Post by Exile Isan on Apr 21, 2017 20:18:57 GMT
And yet they are tied to specific locations. The cold hard truth is, it's a fetch quest without any deeper meaning to the pathfinder's progress or achievements. Oh, and it's another opportunity to show off their new jump jets, since they're most often in otherwise inaccessable terrain. Like so many things you have to collect. Just repeating what the game says, never said it was well implemented. What they should have done was have them trigger after certain quest events like reactivating the vault on Eos, setting up Prodromos, meeting the Angara, etc. Hmm, never had any problem reaching them as they are though. And at least there was a decent payoff for my trouble. |
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danishgambit
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A master of his game
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by danishgambit on Apr 21, 2017 20:32:37 GMT
Cora just has the misfortune of being apart of a Bioware trend of Companions who, in any other story would have been the hero, but had to bow to player empowerment. In Jade Empire, Dawn Star's own spiritual powers could have arguably solved the ghost crisis just as readily as the Spirit Monk, but she was made too deferential. In KOTOR, Bastila could have found the Star Maps through Reven's inherited memories, but was made an upjumped Padawan. In Mass Effect, Ashley or Kaiden could have just as easily acquired the Cypher, if Shepard hadn't been so genre savy  . Alistair was technically your superior and standard fantasy hero in Dragon Age: Origins, but was made into a manchild so the Warden could take over. Cassandra was initially the primary driving force behind the Inquisition, but bowed to your Dues Ex Machina. Seriously Bioware, can we have just one ensemble where Companions aren't weakened just to make the player look good  ? The tropes are strong with this one. |
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VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 21, 2017 20:52:46 GMT
Alec should have looked around for a container, they're usually full of helmets. SAM could have stopped Alecs heart to prevent him breathing toxins and placed him in a Cryo pod till we can fix the damage. Matter of fact we never saw the body did we?  Damn. You're right! We never saw the body! If we don't see the body the "dead dude" ain't really dead! Zombie Alec Ryder in ME:A2 confirmed! Run for your lives!
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Post by abaris on Apr 21, 2017 20:58:12 GMT
Damn. You're right! We never saw the body! If we don't see the body the "dead dude" ain't really dead! Zombie Alec Ryder in ME:A2 confirmed! Run for your lives!
Classic case of watching too many soap operas, I would say. I even wonder why some people desire to see a revived Alec. He's probably the least memorable cardboard character I've seen in any game. Well, maybe not entirely. FO4 may still give them a run for their money with a son you just didn't know or care about being the major plot line. |
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VanSinn
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: VanSinn77
Posts: 576 Likes: 1,429
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Post by VanSinn on Apr 21, 2017 21:00:50 GMT
Damn. You're right! We never saw the body! If we don't see the body the "dead dude" ain't really dead! Zombie Alec Ryder in ME:A2 confirmed! Run for your lives!
Classic case of watching too many soap operas, I would say. I even wonder why some people desire to see a revived Alec. He's probably the least memorable cardboard character I've seen in any game. Well, maybe not entirely. FO4 may still give them a run for their money with a son you just didn't know or care about being the major plot line. Eh, I kinda disagree with the least memorable cardboard character opinion. He could have had a slightly larger role for a bit longer, maybe, but he did OK for what he was intended to be in game. FO4, though, completely takes the cake with its main plot. I never wound up finishing that game (even though I enjoy it mightily, 'cept for the main story) 'cause how ham-handed and trite the main story wound up to be. |
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 21, 2017 23:38:09 GMT
*looks at Ryder. Sure... Added you start to see it with Cora over time, especially on her loyalty mission. the very moment Cora is there she calms Vederia's 2nd in command down and bring up her moral. Even talk her to having the courage to fight kett on her own. She has it, she just does not know she has it. sure...parroting her mentor's manual, not on her own how does that matter? You use what you can to raise moral, that us what's important. As Draco himself said if the teaching and books of the Asari made Cora half as good as a fighter she is then it's worth keeping. |
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 21, 2017 23:39:28 GMT
Damn. You're right! We never saw the body! If we don't see the body the "dead dude" ain't really dead! Zombie Alec Ryder in ME:A2 confirmed! Run for your lives!
Classic case of watching too many soap operas, I would say. I even wonder why some people desire to see a revived Alec. He's probably the least memorable cardboard character I've seen in any game. Well, maybe not entirely. FO4 may still give them a run for their money with a son you just didn't know or care about being the major plot line. Someone did not do his memories. |
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 22, 2017 3:39:14 GMT
Can they make a new special SAM implant like each of the Pathfinders have? That might require too much resources and also cause more and more people demand to become Pathfinders. I can't see Tann &co. wanting to upset the established 1 Pathfinder per species rule. The implants Alex, Scott and Sara have are distinctly different from those in other pathfinders. SAM can do the profile stuff with them but not other pathfinders. |
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Post by dreman999 on Apr 22, 2017 12:49:02 GMT
In an ideal scenario he would have chosen Cora over Ryder as pathfinder, but the situation was: 1. A life threatening condition of his child. 2. Cora isn't anywhere close to transfer the full SAM contrkol to her. she does not need to be near Alec. If he died Cora would just connect to SAM at his node like the other pathfinder replacements. This only happen because Alice was covering his ass. |
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. Alistair was technically your superior and standard fantasy hero in Dragon Age: Origins, but was made into a manchild so the Warden could take over. Cassandra was initially the primary driving force behind the Inquisition, but bowed to your Dues Ex Machina. 
?
