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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Sept 22, 2018 18:16:00 GMT
There's nothing wrong with episodic games conceptually, and a lot right about it for customers. LiS and LiS:Yo were also episodic and did fine. Telltale's business failure has been a long time coming, and has more to do with basing all their games on IP owned by other people, paying top dollar for that IP, and the most expensive IP being on it's own decline in popularity. That's a fatal combination. Plus they failed to innovate and kept rigidly to the same formula and style. I for one got sick of that.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 22, 2018 18:34:16 GMT
There's nothing wrong with episodic games conceptually, and a lot right about it for customers. LiS and LiS:Yo were also episodic and did fine. Telltale's business failure has been a long time coming, and has more to do with basing all their games on IP owned by other people, paying top dollar for that IP, and the most expensive IP being on it's own decline in popularity. That's a fatal combination. That's definitely true. Not only were there too many IP's, but Telltale's process for making their games just weren't made for multiple projects at the same time. People didn't really like waiting for over two monthes for the next episode, and often times the story kind of takes a different direction because of that which can be kind of annoying. I feel that even if they did stuck with using other IP's, they probably should have at least chose IP's that, in the paraphrased words of a Youtuber when talking about adaptations that take liberties, "the IP needs to be just popular enough to warrant an adaptation, but not too popular that the game doesn't have a chance of being more so." The reason the Walking Dead was a huge success was because even though the TV show was the big thing at the time, the studio instead opted to stick with the not-as-popular comic and primarily focused on brand new characters with their own storyline and very few connections to the main comic. Wolf Among Us worked because while the comic was popular, it wasn't a massive household name at the time of the game's creation. Even Batman, while it was a super popular IP, Telltale took the time to try and make it their own product that gave it it's own identity, going as far as to make the main antagonist of the first season a completely new villain. TL;DR - Telltale would have been better off if they stuck with lesser known IP's that would give them a chance to make their game's stand out as their own, or at the very least an IP that's proven to be recognizable and last for decades as opposed to something that's hyped at the time and probably won't be as popular in the far future. (Game of Thrones TV show, Guardians of the Galaxy, Minecraft, that stuff.) Good examples I can think of can be Supernatural (a popular cult TV show that's still going even today (season 14 is coming in October and will be the show's 300th episode)) or Dinotopia (an old book series that had a few adaptations in the past, given Telltale plenty of opportunities to tell their own story).
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,899 Likes: 8,927
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 22, 2018 20:53:02 GMT
There's nothing wrong with episodic games conceptually, and a lot right about it for customers. LiS and LiS:Yo were also episodic and did fine. Telltale's business failure has been a long time coming, and has more to do with basing all their games on IP owned by other people, paying top dollar for that IP, and the most expensive IP being on it's own decline in popularity. That's a fatal combination. That's definitely true. Not only were there too many IP's, but Telltale's process for making their games just weren't made for multiple projects at the same time. People didn't really like waiting for over two monthes for the next episode, and often times the story kind of takes a different direction because of that which can be kind of annoying. I feel that even if they did stuck with using other IP's, they probably should have at least chose IP's that, in the paraphrased words of a Youtuber when talking about adaptations that take liberties, "the IP needs to be just popular enough to warrant an adaptation, but not too popular that the game doesn't have a chance of being more so." The reason the Walking Dead was a huge success was because even though the TV show was the big thing at the time, the studio instead opted to stick with the not-as-popular comic and primarily focused on brand new characters with their own storyline and very few connections to the main comic. Wolf Among Us worked because while the comic was popular, it wasn't a massive household name at the time of the game's creation. Even Batman, while it was a super popular IP, Telltale took the time to try and make it their own product that gave it it's own identity, going as far as to make the main antagonist of the first season a completely new villain. TL;DR - Telltale would have been better off if they stuck with lesser known IP's that would give them a chance to make their game's stand out as their own, or at the very least an IP that's proven to be recognizable and last for decades as opposed to something that's hyped at the time and probably won't be as popular in the far future. (Game of Thrones TV show, Guardians of the Galaxy, Minecraft, that stuff.) Good examples I can think of can be Supernatural (a popular cult TV show that's still going even today (season 14 is coming in October and will be the show's 300th episode)) or Dinotopia (an old book series that had a few adaptations in the past, given Telltale plenty of opportunities to tell their own story). Unfortunately I don't think that is the only problem because if the stories I have been reading recently that Season One of The Walking Dead was the studio's only real major success so people showed up for one game and then never bothered playing another and that could have been they released that game format isn't for them. So I think even going for the smaller IPs wouldn't have helped that much, but maybe trying to make their own would have worked better so they didn't have to pay the IP holders their cut.
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Post by river82 on Sept 22, 2018 21:53:37 GMT
That's definitely true. Not only were there too many IP's, but Telltale's process for making their games just weren't made for multiple projects at the same time. People didn't really like waiting for over two monthes for the next episode, and often times the story kind of takes a different direction because of that which can be kind of annoying. I feel that even if they did stuck with using other IP's, they probably should have at least chose IP's that, in the paraphrased words of a Youtuber when talking about adaptations that take liberties, "the IP needs to be just popular enough to warrant an adaptation, but not too popular that the game doesn't have a chance of being more so." The reason the Walking Dead was a huge success was because even though the TV show was the big thing at the time, the studio instead opted to stick with the not-as-popular comic and primarily focused on brand new characters with their own storyline and very few connections to the main comic. Wolf Among Us worked because while the comic was popular, it wasn't a massive household name at the time of the game's creation. Even Batman, while it was a super popular IP, Telltale took the time to try and make it their own product that gave it it's own identity, going as far as to make the main antagonist of the first season a completely new villain. TL;DR - Telltale would have been better off if they stuck with lesser known IP's that would give them a chance to make their game's stand out as their own, or at the very least an IP that's proven to be recognizable and last for decades as opposed to something that's hyped at the time and probably won't be as popular in the far future. (Game of Thrones TV show, Guardians of the Galaxy, Minecraft, that stuff.) Good examples I can think of can be Supernatural (a popular cult TV show that's still going even today (season 14 is coming in October and will be the show's 300th episode)) or Dinotopia (an old book series that had a few adaptations in the past, given Telltale plenty of opportunities to tell their own story). Unfortunately I don't think that is the only problem because if the stories I have been reading recently that Season One of The Walking Dead was the studio's only real major success so people showed up for one game and then never bothered playing another and that could have been they released that game format isn't for them. So I think even going for the smaller IPs wouldn't have helped that much, but maybe trying to make their own would have worked better so they didn't have to pay the IP holders their cut. If this is true, then they should have realised they had a revenue problem before their 15th game ... Just sayin'.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Sept 22, 2018 22:11:17 GMT
One of the problems for me was that they made great let's plays. I had no desire to buy them when I could watch a like minded youtuber play them instead.
A great game usually makes me want to stop watching, purchase and play, then go back to the stream. Never with TT though and I think it's because there wasn't really much gaming involved.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
Posts: 5,899 Likes: 8,927
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 22, 2018 23:44:14 GMT
Unfortunately I don't think that is the only problem because if the stories I have been reading recently that Season One of The Walking Dead was the studio's only real major success so people showed up for one game and then never bothered playing another and that could have been they released that game format isn't for them. So I think even going for the smaller IPs wouldn't have helped that much, but maybe trying to make their own would have worked better so they didn't have to pay the IP holders their cut. If this is true, then they should have realised they had a revenue problem before their 15th game ... Just sayin'. The way I am reading it is that they had bad leadership until the CEO was ousted about a year or year and a half ago, but then the direction was set they where unable to recover.
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Post by xetykins on Sept 23, 2018 6:50:07 GMT
Didn't they license GoT too?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Serza on Sept 23, 2018 10:16:20 GMT
Yes. There is even a GoT TT game.
Unfortunately it ended on a bit of a cliffhanger. Cliffhanger that will never be resolved now.
Though I suppose that if one of the writers for that wanted, they could release how the story would go. And chalk it up as being fanfiction, definitely not releasing what the story would look like, nope, no siree.
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Post by Lavochkin on Sept 23, 2018 12:44:31 GMT
There's nothing wrong with episodic games conceptually, and a lot right about it for customers. LiS and LiS:Yo were also episodic and did fine. Telltale's business failure has been a long time coming, and has more to do with basing all their games on IP owned by other people, paying top dollar for that IP, and the most expensive IP being on it's own decline in popularity. That's a fatal combination. That's definitely true. Not only were there too many IP's, but Telltale's process for making their games just weren't made for multiple projects at the same time. People didn't really like waiting for over two monthes for the next episode, and often times the story kind of takes a different direction because of that which can be kind of annoying. I feel that even if they did stuck with using other IP's, they probably should have at least chose IP's that, in the paraphrased words of a Youtuber when talking about adaptations that take liberties, "the IP needs to be just popular enough to warrant an adaptation, but not too popular that the game doesn't have a chance of being more so." The reason the Walking Dead was a huge success was because even though the TV show was the big thing at the time, the studio instead opted to stick with the not-as-popular comic and primarily focused on brand new characters with their own storyline and very few connections to the main comic. Wolf Among Us worked because while the comic was popular, it wasn't a massive household name at the time of the game's creation. Even Batman, while it was a super popular IP, Telltale took the time to try and make it their own product that gave it it's own identity, going as far as to make the main antagonist of the first season a completely new villain. TL;DR - Telltale would have been better off if they stuck with lesser known IP's that would give them a chance to make their game's stand out as their own, or at the very least an IP that's proven to be recognizable and last for decades as opposed to something that's hyped at the time and probably won't be as popular in the far future. (Game of Thrones TV show, Guardians of the Galaxy, Minecraft, that stuff.) Good examples I can think of can be Supernatural (a popular cult TV show that's still going even today (season 14 is coming in October and will be the show's 300th episode)) or Dinotopia (an old book series that had a few adaptations in the past, given Telltale plenty of opportunities to tell their own story). Their whole wannabe TV show format really fell on its face because of this. These eps should been released weekly at best and no more than a month at most.
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N4
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 1,987 Likes: 4,357
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Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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December 2016
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Post by Croatsky on Sept 23, 2018 13:59:07 GMT
So former CEO and co-founder of Telltale Kevin Burner was suing Telltale back in June. There was no news on that since then, but considering this sudden shutdown it is possible Burner won the arbitration and Telltale declared bankruptcy due to inability to pay court fees. I mean shit, Telltale hired new people only a week before the shutdown, that doesn't sound they expected to close down until literally the final moment. Again, no news on this either and it's been largely buried news as I only seen it mentioned by few reddit comments. But a lawsuit is real, just what is happening with is currently a mystery. And even then it could just be a massive Telltale management incompetence that caused this sudden closure and refuse to inform anyone until the last moment. Still, I am shocked by this event. I never saw such blatant incompetence and disregard of any transparency within the company itself. Nor even ex-devs talking shit against their former high profile company either. Publically, only hours to a day after being fired. That's unheard of from big name studios. To update my comment, instead of posting a new one, all retailers were not informed about the Telltale closure until after news broke. Hence why refunds were denied, as TT left them in dark. This is some serious high level of fuck up, to even leave retailers in dark about this. Until firm official statement is made from TT or serious breaking news on this, I am firmly convinced this sudden closure happened due to losing a lawsuit against Burner. Because otherwise, this is some new low of incompetency of a major game studio.
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N4
Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
Posts: 1,987 Likes: 4,357
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Old BSN veteran, I guess.
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Post by Croatsky on Sept 23, 2018 14:01:43 GMT
Didn't they license GoT too? Yeah, in fact all of Telltale titles are licenses. They never had an original IP title to their name. They were planning to make a new original IP as they were about to switch to Unity engine after TWD The Final Season, but it is case of too little too late.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 23, 2018 16:25:40 GMT
Didn't they license GoT too? Yeah, in fact all of Telltale titles are licenses. They never had an original IP title to their name. They were planning to make a new original IP as they were about to switch to Unity engine after TWD The Final Season, but it is case of too little too late. Well, there was Puzzle Agent. From what I'm aware, that was Telltale's first and only completely original IP that did not involve any licensing.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 23, 2018 16:27:50 GMT
How do you guys think Clementine's story would have ended? Personally, I was assuming they were going to go for an ending similar to Season 1, with Clementine bit, about to turn, and asking AJ for one final request before saying farewell. It would be an interesting full circle to the series, and it would make sense considering how heavily they promoted that parallel image of Clem taking Lee's place as mentor and protector to AJ.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 23, 2018 18:38:28 GMT
How do you guys think Clementine's story would have ended? Personally, I was assuming they were going to go for an ending similar to Season 1, with Clementine bit, about to turn, and asking AJ for one final request before saying farewell. It would be an interesting full circle to the series, and it would make sense considering how heavily they promoted that parallel image of Clem taking Lee's place as mentor and protector to AJ. I think there would have been riots if they had forced players to go that route.
Though I think that would have been at least one of the possible outcomes.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 23, 2018 21:47:10 GMT
How do you guys think Clementine's story would have ended? Personally, I was assuming they were going to go for an ending similar to Season 1, with Clementine bit, about to turn, and asking AJ for one final request before saying farewell. It would be an interesting full circle to the series, and it would make sense considering how heavily they promoted that parallel image of Clem taking Lee's place as mentor and protector to AJ. I think there would have been riots if they had forced players to go that route.
Though I think that would have been at least one of the possible outcomes.
What? Riots that Telltale would have killed Clementine off? This is the Walking Dead we're talking about, where popular characters that have been beloved for so long are often not safe from getting killed off. Personally, I predicted it since it was announced this was the Final Season, and Telltale has been very cryptic about Clementine's fate.
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Post by jaison1986 on Sept 23, 2018 21:56:04 GMT
How do you guys think Clementine's story would have ended? Personally, I was assuming they were going to go for an ending similar to Season 1, with Clementine bit, about to turn, and asking AJ for one final request before saying farewell. It would be an interesting full circle to the series, and it would make sense considering how heavily they promoted that parallel image of Clem taking Lee's place as mentor and protector to AJ. I think it would end with AJ becoming more unruly and unstable, to the point Clementine realize he is insane. Then the game would give the player the choice to stick with him despite it all or Clementine abandoning him for good and setting off on her own.
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Post by river82 on Sept 23, 2018 22:43:31 GMT
Game Workers Unite has come out and lambasted the surprise layoffs without severence. The incompetence of the executives. The habitual exploitation of the workers. The prioritising of the shareholders. That the time for sitting back on their heels and dilly dallying is over. That the time to unionise is now.
... Not sure how a union will affect a global industry, btw. A global industry whose costs are soaring and where countries with distinct currency advantages could possibly hold key ... well, advantages going forward. Are there any examples of global unions out there?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
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Post by Iakus on Sept 23, 2018 23:31:37 GMT
I think there would have been riots if they had forced players to go that route.
Though I think that would have been at least one of the possible outcomes.
What? Riots that Telltale would have killed Clementine off? This is the Walking Dead we're talking about, where popular characters that have been beloved for so long are often not safe from getting killed off. Personally, I predicted it since it was announced this was the Final Season, and Telltale has been very cryptic about Clementine's fate. Yeah, but Clem is probably THE most popular character in the franchise, perhaps the most popular character Telltale's ever made, and has been a focal character in all their Walking Dead games save the Michonne one. She's practically the face of Telltale at this point. Note I'm not saying they wouldn't have had her death be a possible outcome. But I doubt it would have been the only possible outcome. particularly since they seemed to have gotten a lot better about leaving things in a lot of possible world-states (the state of Javi's family in New Frontier, Bruce/Wayne/Batman's status in The Enemy Within, for example)
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
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Post by Iakus on Sept 23, 2018 23:32:32 GMT
How do you guys think Clementine's story would have ended? Personally, I was assuming they were going to go for an ending similar to Season 1, with Clementine bit, about to turn, and asking AJ for one final request before saying farewell. It would be an interesting full circle to the series, and it would make sense considering how heavily they promoted that parallel image of Clem taking Lee's place as mentor and protector to AJ. I think it would end with AJ becoming more unruly and unstable, to the point Clementine realize he is insane. Then the game would give the player the choice to stick with him despite it all or Clementine abandoning him for good and setting off on her own. "Look at the flowers, AJ"...
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Post by mugwump on Sept 24, 2018 6:17:34 GMT
Sad (and a little puzzled) to see Telltale go so suddenly. Here's hoping those affected by the closure find jobs asap.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 24, 2018 15:07:23 GMT
This is one of the reasons I dislike episodic games. Something goes wrong and you are left high and dry. I'm still baffled as to why they became popular with publishers. I get bored of the hype before the last episode is out, and if I'm going to buy them I'll wait for the entire thing to be done so I can go at my own pace. It's essentially early access, disguised in story telling. You pay now, get content later, still to be developed.
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Post by jaison1986 on Sept 24, 2018 16:13:49 GMT
Speaking of wich. Can't people sue Telltale? Or at least the people in charge before the company closed down? Because a lot of players bought the season pass for the final season of TWD. And if they cancel it halfway without a refund, that's fraud.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Sept 24, 2018 16:14:41 GMT
Speaking of wich. Can't people sue Telltale? Or at least the people in charge before the company closed down? Because a lot of players bought the season pass for the final season of TWD. And if they cancel it halfway without a refund, that's fraud. I wouldn't blame them honestly.
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N7Pathfinder
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: Ajer17327
XBL Gamertag: Ajer17327
Posts: 964 Likes: 712
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February 2017
n7pathfinder
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Ajer17327
Ajer17327
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 24, 2018 16:16:21 GMT
I'm still baffled as to why they became popular with publishers. I get bored of the hype before the last episode is out, and if I'm going to buy them I'll wait for the entire thing to be done so I can go at my own pace. It's essentially early access, disguised in story telling. You pay now, get content later, still to be developed. This is a pretty common complaint about Telltale and one I can agree with, that being people who were willing to pay for a whole season have to wait for roughly two months in order to get the next episode. Not only that, but apparently Telltale almost utilizes a make-it-up as they go approach, where even though they have a few ideas of what they want to do in each episode, they only make the episodes separately in under a month. A better, more effective method would have been to have teams make all of the episodes simultaneously so that the wait time between episodes can be shorter, maybe a month apart or a week apart, using the time between releases to polish up bugs or make some quick story changes to take player input into account.
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I refuse to believe that the cake is a lie
10461
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10,995
ArcadiaGrey
4,894
September 2018
arcadiagrey
ArcadiaGrey
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Sept 24, 2018 16:19:50 GMT
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