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Post by zeowik on Jun 13, 2017 4:17:53 GMT
Me: Okay E3 I bet they are focusing on new games. *Searches "Mass Effect Andromeda* Whaaaaaat!!! I have a lot of catching up to do on the news in general for the game.
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Post by zeowik on Jun 4, 2017 18:09:31 GMT
Kudos to those with the energy to keep following this so long. It's finally been two months eh? We'll soon see whether it's "not just PR talk."
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Post by zeowik on May 27, 2017 16:20:17 GMT
No of course they can't make every change or should. In this case I just hate how some of us felt strung along though. It wasn't right. Then to lie about being able to be turned down early on was just wrong. I don't think anyone would hire a guy who is a self-proclaimed GAY writer. Like in his CV he has listed his experience on being gay and a gay writer.. And isn't it super bad just to hire a gay writer to do the gay writing???? " oh hello writer, first of all are you gay??? Cuz we need a gay writer monkey to do all the gay!!! " Please. It should be pretty clear that my initial comment was facetious, but the frustration comes from a real place. If I was in a position to hire writers for a project that was specifically producing LGBT content for an LGBT audience, then I would only look at gay writers. I would specifically put out a call for LGBT writers and and ONLY LGBT writers I wouldn't open the opportunity for straight writers to apply in the first place. They already get to write EVERYTHING ELSE. They don't need this opportunity, and gay writers do. I'm not the only one who feels this way. There are organisations specifically geared to helping minority groups break into the arts and media industry, and I have attended such events. That's a difficult subject, but that's very uncomfortable. I don't think some double standard of prejudice in hiring being okay sometimes and not others would be a good thing, at all.
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Post by zeowik on Apr 21, 2017 23:05:39 GMT
ash Wow. Okay, that's a little messed up. I can understand why Cora shoots down Sara so hard, given that she'd been in the commandos for so long. Yet Jaal doesn't say anything? Damn. Not cool. Funny thing is, both Avela and Jaal are straight, and they cannot be even FLIRTED as the same sex. The option doesn't appear. What's the deal with that? They said everyone could be flirted with, didn't they? I haven't checked in on the situation in a while but that is the part that upset me. They strung people along saying that wouldn't happen and lied about it. So much for being shut down quickly. I am guessing no word is out yet what they are doing if anything? It is extremely hard to keep track without checking all the time. Also it is interesting seeing the asexual thing come up again since I thought you can turn down sex without ending the relationships?
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Post by zeowik on Apr 11, 2017 5:00:55 GMT
I don't think it by default makes anything bad to follow this trope but it's nice when it's subverted. Guild Wars 2 turns it on its head: humanity is not the center of the universe. The dominant factions of the Charr, which were primarily primitive shamanistic antagonists in the first game, rebelled and focused on technological advancement rather than magic. It was the Charr, not humans, that invented the printing press in Guild Wars 2, and pretty much all mechanical technology is based on or an inferior implementation of Charr technology. For that matter the Asura, which would fit the Gnome trope, are experts on the arcane but officially their understanding of physical technology is inferior to the Charr (a couple hundred years inferior if NPC banter is to be believed). There are more races/factions than that in the lore but the point is humanity isn't at the center of advancement and has actually declined since the first game, sandwiched between a bunch of different nations. Really they snubbed tropes on purpose making that game, for example the hive mind-like race are rodents rather than insects, etc. That's not to say the lore of that game isn't filled with some clichés too of course.
I wonder how many other examples there are of humans not being the center of the universe in fiction/games. I remember my brother claiming they couldn't make a Babylon 5 prequel because humans weren't in space and supposedly audiences can only relate to humans, a view point which really embraces the worst of sectarian tendencies of humanity in my opinion.
I'm not saying I think they should move in such a direction for Mass Effect (I especially would not want single player development to be axed to focus on an MMORPG), but I agree it can be interesting.
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Post by zeowik on Apr 6, 2017 3:02:10 GMT
I don't think there's anything wrong with the Jill situation it's more that combined with the "making sense" comment that makes it irksome. It really does not bother me though, on its own.
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Post by zeowik on Apr 4, 2017 16:40:43 GMT
It seems I missed some drama at some point. My simple fix to that is one person being nasty should not inspire me to be so as well.
I am happy they at least mentioned it regarding m/m. No specifics though.
That transition skip though I am very happy about.
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Post by zeowik on Apr 3, 2017 22:54:09 GMT
Lots of replies but I just want to say focusing on bugs is understandable.
Totally refusing or not being allowed to say anything about the romance situation is not if they do not do so.
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Post by zeowik on Apr 3, 2017 16:23:31 GMT
No offense to gay people intended but there really shouldn't be any gay people on a colonization mission. It kinds of defeats the purpose. Things like this break story immersion and makes one consider the scientific and social credentials of the writers. Gil says hi. You also assume 100% of colonists are expected to breed even without Gil destroying your point.
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Post by zeowik on Apr 3, 2017 16:12:09 GMT
I didn't know jovial preemptive snide bitterness was a thing until now. The scary part is how fun it is to read...
They wouldn't really not even mention the romances would they?
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Post by zeowik on Apr 2, 2017 17:41:38 GMT
Holy smokes all this time later and I'm still surprised how quickly this topic moves. That's kind of awesome really, though I know it stinks for people that want idle chatter unrelated to the elephant in the room. welcome If it's still going this quickly and they don't mention it at all on the fourth... (Just in case someone doesn't know, they are making some announcement about their plans for the game on the fourth.) I mean I don't know if it could possibly get worse than the week of release, but it certainly would be ugly if there's not even a mention of it at all.
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Post by zeowik on Apr 2, 2017 17:36:39 GMT
Holy smokes all this time later and I'm still surprised how quickly this topic moves. That's kind of awesome really, though I know it stinks for people that want idle chatter unrelated to the elephant in the room.
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Post by zeowik on Apr 2, 2017 17:30:48 GMT
We are over due for a gay man whose sexuality does not factor into his story line, not even a little bit. Unfortunately they can't please everyone though. I feel this way completely but I've seen others insist they want outright gay characters with 'gay' stories. We're a small percentage of the population. I don't mind if we aren't shoehorned in as Very Special Characters. That's the thing that struck me most about it: That they seemed to feel the need to write it as some big part of the character's story if they aren't straight. It's unintentionally condescending to me, even if it's something some people want. I don't mind it occasionally, but when they seem to think it has to be that way for any character to be anything but straight... It's why I don't mind Dumbledore. It doesn't factor into the story other than implied unrequited love for a villain of the past and that works just as well with friendship. It doesn't change who he is and that's the point. The same goes for Judy's neighbors in Zootopia, though there are still some anti-gay people that despite the hyphenated last name and direct confirmation from Jared Bush insist that even if they are different species and they could be adopted brothers. Both of those examples just happen to be gay though. Granted I get the impression bi writing is often even worse. And no, I do not mind if a past girlfriend comes up if a guy is bi. Why should their histories be sealed just because they swing both ways? I guess it's more a bi stereotype that makes that annoying though?
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Post by zeowik on Mar 31, 2017 4:54:38 GMT
It's interesting how different words convey different connotations, on the werewolf front. The word that comes to my mind is "fluffy," yet "hairy" sounds so much less appealing. It's really as simple as the appeal of aliens though.
I can't get over that they just didn't care and did whatever the heck they could get away with when making the Animaniacs:
More on topic, so it turns out the Jaal weirdness extends to the friendship too? So odd.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 31, 2017 0:30:39 GMT
Edit: Regarding Gil
As the personification of the "it has to make sense for the character" mumbo jumbo he probably gets some unfair hate just for that. It's okay for that kind of character sometimes; it's more the fact they said that, as if it has to be a part of the character's core story, that probably makes him annoy some people. I can't speak for them of course, but that's my guess.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 28, 2017 1:29:00 GMT
Human/alien hybrid kids really wouldn't "make sense" in my opinion without some "seeded galaxy" lore that much of sci-fi loves to embrace. That would be pretty silly for Andromeda though, in my opinion. It makes for interesting story telling but it's been done enough in my opinion. The topic came up regarding Zootopia's world too, and the directors of that movie while not committing to sequels or saying definitively so likewise said hybrids would likely only be possible between equivalent species in the real world. Yeah yeah I know I bring that movie up too much, but it's relevant to the hybrid discussion and they put a lot of thought into the world. They basically are parallel world aliens, same geography but totally different geopolitical development, etc.
As far as the elephant in the room, I wish they'd just say something at least. How could they possibly drop the ball on PR this badly? It's astounding.
Edit: Nice to see a bunch of posts between what I replied to and when I replied. The speed of this topic never ceases to amaze me.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 26, 2017 18:21:30 GMT
So now that I know the details of Gil's romance better, I think I know what the devs mean when they say regressive stuff like "It has to make sense" and "Their sexuality has to be a big part of who they are." ... It has to make sense to them. For some reason, it seems that they have pre-conceived notions, biases, whatever you want to call it. Gay and bisexual characters are the ones that have these restrictions. It seems that allowing gay male characters to have the freedom of being as varied and limitless as straight male characters is a strange concept to the devs. They need to make sense, and their sexuality needs to be a big part of who they are.... when combined, it means that the stories of gay men have to feature their sexuality in some way. It isn't as prominent in ME as with Dorian in DA, but it is there. Steve's pain over his dead husband features prominently in his romance. Gil feeling the pressure to 'reproduce' and how it somewhat conflicts with his sexuality. etc. I love both of these characters. But both Gil and Steve could have had different stories that had nothing to do with their sexuality whatsoever, not even remotely. That's what is good about Reyes. His sexuality isn't the focus in any way in his story. He simply can be flirted with as a guy. The same thing can be done with a gay male character too, but for some reason I think the devs just can't (or don't want to) see that. I think that's what they mean by fitting the character. They feel obligated to craft a story around certain aspects of a gay guy's sexuality, when it isn't necessary. Just make an awesome character who is important to the story, and make him romanceable by a male PC. It's so simple, and yet they can't seem to grasp that... Yeah I think it's fine sometimes but when it is every single time that is insulting. Just imagine if they add Evfra LI in DLC but only for girls. AHAHA mein gott this sounds so real But to be honest... no. Not my lover Evfra or BI Jaal. I think in DLC they add more scene with Gil or Reyes, but no more. And this is sad, cuz I'm not interested humans. Maybe they can give us Avi? But boy with dead husband again... idk. I think, Jaal would be the best solution...depending on whether he had already spoken lines for gay Scott, he would be less work for the developers. Plus, he's plot centric, an alien love interest and a squadmate... I don't think any other character could surpass that. That is the big thing for me. If he really was never seriously in consideration then that is uncomfortable to change him. Really though unused assets are probably the only realistic chance of them doing it anyway.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 26, 2017 15:57:41 GMT
I don't know how I should feel about this. The first tweets, I mean... They keep saying "we hear you, promise!" but still haven't actually said anything. They are muzzled:
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Post by zeowik on Mar 26, 2017 4:54:03 GMT
I researched it right away then realized I'm a long ways from having the materials for it. I'm glad to hear it sounds interesting.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 26, 2017 3:32:28 GMT
Vy Nope, we've got a direct and private ear to one of the devs, thanks to a poster here. I'm leaving them both anonymous because I don't want either of them to get potentially harassed by other posters. Ah, ok. That's great to hear! Good call on keeping them anonymous. This was just the first time I'd heard about this, so I was wondering if I'd missed a post/announcement somewhere. I don't know which dev you're talking about, however: Reading everything? That's quite a lot of stuff I'd imagine.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 26, 2017 3:27:25 GMT
Okay I'm finally playing the game again now and I must say the "Hi, by the way I'm transgender." moment has been extremely misrepresented. You have to ask her about why she came to Andromeda first, and she doesn't dwell on it at all. I bet some people completely miss it.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 25, 2017 23:37:24 GMT
Edit: In another email to Patricia after she responded asking me a couple questions, I clarified that if Jaal in fact was going to be bi all along as much as I'd like it I'd be a bit uncomfortable with them changing him. My support for #MakeJaalBi is directly proportional to how recently they changed him, if ever. If he's always been straight, which is very possible, then that's really uncomfortable waters. Actually the achievement is not what bothers me. Here: bsn.boards.net/post/461787/threadI summarize my perception of the situation, even the stuff I don't agree with. Okay, I think I get it. You basically feel like your sexuality is pushed to the back because having clear cut-and-dry homosexuality in a videogame might "offend" straight males, is that correct? I can see why you would feel this way. I mean the vocal minority of straight male children saying "I don't want BioWare to push their gay agenda on me" doesn't really help, at all. Whether these kids are the reason BioWare (and other developers) are so "cautious" with m/m content remains to be seen though. There's currently no evidence that this is the case. I mean, Dorian seems to be evidence that BioWare has no issue with clear m/m content. Dorian is a popular character, he's a squad mate and has a solid m/m romance arc. To be honest, ME:A in general seems like an unfinished mess. I wouldn't at all be surprised if some m/m content (like Jaal?) was in the makes but got scrapped due to time constraints. What this would prove is that m/m content is indeed low on BioWare's priority list. It does not however prove that BioWare is discriminating against gays. I mean, let's be honest here, homosexual men make up about what... 2,5% of the entire population? Not exactly a high amount, to be sure. If any developer seems to care about "equal representation", it's BioWare. Also, you still haven't really answered why you're not okay with just playing a straight dude, straight chick or lesbian chick. Or do you not have a problem with that? Others answered that but I will again: Because that's what we always have to do most of the time, with some rare exceptions, such as with Bioware games. I do not mind playing straight guys or female characters, but it's not quite the same thing. I am controlling a character more if I play a female character especially. When I play a male character he's more a player avatar. Actually in the Mass Effect trilogy I wouldn't change course to another character from Liara because that's who my Shepherd was involved with. Also, I didn't say Bioware did that on purpose. I said circumstantially everything is a laundry list that makes it look that way. The hyping Jaal while claiming you'd find out quickly in game after meeting characters and that turning out to be totally false is what annoys me most, however. You can't even get him to tell you he's not interested, which completely goes against what the developers claimed when telling people they refused to say if he's straight while they kept on teasing. As a result, some play through the whole game not knowing.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 25, 2017 23:03:44 GMT
Hey in the #MakeJaalBi someone already say that we need to kill ourselves! Yas! Homophobes showing their colors, that's a good pitching for us tbh *sigh* This whole experience over these past two months or so has made me so depressed, and now this is starting to crawl out again. That and all the Jaalmancers not wanting to share ffs I think it's really important to not be hostile to people who romanced Jaal or who want him to stay straight in general, if they aren't hostile. Changing a character's orientation is a hugely contentious idea. Not everyone that opposes it is malicious. The most vocal malicious people would have been upset anyway. It all comes back to how far back he was changed for me. My support is proportionate to how recent they changed him. If he was straight all along I'd feel very conflicted showing any support for changing him.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 25, 2017 22:50:40 GMT
Edit: In another email to Patricia after she responded asking me a couple questions, I clarified that if Jaal in fact was going to be bi all along as much as I'd like it I'd be a bit uncomfortable with them changing him. My support for #MakeJaalBi is directly proportional to how recently they changed him, if ever. If he's always been straight, which is very possible, then that's really uncomfortable waters. I don't want the sensitive topic to explode so putting this in a spoiler tag to keep from becoming a nested quote nightmare: The problem with the back and forth that can happen on that subject is all sides have a point when talking about certain incidents. I do feel it is extremely unfair how Kotaku is bashed as a meme years later over it. I also think it's unfortunate the SJW boogeyman has become a way for actual bigots to cry wolf over any inclusion of minorities. For every "by the way I'm transgender" complaint I understand there are dozens more about gay people even existing or a female character not being designed as an ideal fantasy, etc. The anti-SJW echo chamber straw man argument topics by far outnumber the actual SJWs, at least on GameFAQs which is where I see the most anti-SJW hysteria.
Either way it doesn't change the fact I'm glad a popular site is researching this. That's fair enough. I have to ask though: Why is this matter so important to homosexual people? Is this born from a desire to play as a homosexual guy in videogames, or born from the feeling of being ignored? Honest question. Because I as a straight dude don't really care all that much about the gender or sexuality of characters in videogames. Just to give you an example, I played Dragon Age Inquisition exactly 3 times: 1. As a human female inquisitor, romancing Josephine. 2. As a elven female inquisitor, romancing Solas. 3. As a human male inquisitor, romancing Dorian. Not once did I play DA:I as a straight male character, despite being a straight male myself. I just don't care about the gender and sexuality of my player character. I just care about good stories and fun roleplaying. In fact, I'd say Dorian is one of my favorite characters in DA:I and his romance is one of the better romances in DA:I. But I like him not because he's gay. I also don't like him despite being gay. His sexuality doesn't matter to me. I like him because he's a cool character. I'd probably like him just as much if he was straight, as long as he'd keep his flamboyant and flirty persona, that's what I like about him. So, I have to ask, why is it a problem for a gay man to roleplay as a straight dude, straight chick or lesbian chick? Actually the achievement is not what bothers me. Here: bsn.boards.net/post/461787/threadI summarize my perception of the situation, even the stuff I don't agree with.
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Post by zeowik on Mar 25, 2017 22:28:18 GMT
I don't want the sensitive topic to explode so putting this in a spoiler tag to keep from becoming a nested quote nightmare: I don't subscribe to the "bash Kotaku" meme and I'm thrilled Patricia is researching this. I wish I understood the data mining better to explain it more, but I only have a basic grasp on it and the posts are buried under thousands (literally) of others. Most of the Kotaku hate seems to come from the gamergate propaganda and people who don't understand or don't like that it's a blog that has opinion pieces mixed in. Sometimes stereotypes happen. They are based on real stuff after all. That doesn't mean they always are true though. Frankly I'm closeted in real life and couldn't tell you anything about how gay guys supposedly act. Fair enough. As for your comment on Kotaku: the GamerGate "propaganda" wasn't really propaganda mate, it was a collection of well documented facts. Kotaku has gone to shit. Yes, they have opinion pieces, and their opinion pieces are SJW tribe, and they never make it clear when an opinion piece is just that, an opinion piece. They always presented their opinion pieces as factual news. At least they used to, before GamerGate happened. And no, I'm not even a "gamergater". I'd be the first to admit that most GGers are a bunch of autists. But you gotta be honest, most autists are the best at digging up dirt, collecting evidence and building a strong case. They live for that kind of shit. The problem with the back and forth that can happen on that subject is all sides have a point when talking about certain incidents. I do feel it is extremely unfair how Kotaku is bashed as a meme years later over it. I also think it's unfortunate the SJW boogeyman has become a way for actual bigots to cry wolf over any inclusion of minorities. For every "by the way I'm transgender" complaint I understand there are dozens more about gay people even existing or a female character not being designed as an ideal fantasy, etc. The anti-SJW echo chamber straw man argument topics by far outnumber the actual SJWs, at least on GameFAQs which is where I see the most anti-SJW hysteria. Either way it doesn't change the fact I'm glad a popular site is researching this.
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