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Post by caladrius on Feb 25, 2019 0:48:00 GMT
I think DA has about as much in common with Game of Thrones as Lord of the Rings. Almost anything fantasy could be said to be “based on” more famous works with vaguely similar worlds, but having elves and basically orcs and a handful of dragons doesn’t make DA close enough to LotR to make it super relevant. Having some political intrigue in a world with some aesthetic nods to medieval Europe doesn’t make it intrisinctly tied to Game of Thrones, either.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 24, 2019 1:57:17 GMT
I would be happy if you could play a Tevinter elf mage and non-mage ex-slave elf, a Dalish elf and an ancient elf. I think elves are the most relevant race right now with how much elven lore has been going around, so they might as well go hard. lol I’ll play whatever elf is available. I think mage Tevinter elf and ancient elf would be the most interesting. I like playing Dalish, but it seems less relevant in the north.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 24, 2019 1:32:04 GMT
How? Medieval Europe derived their morality almost entirely from Christianity, which doesn’t exist in Thedas. There isn’t really a parallel. In the most vague sense on ideas like “bigotry exists”, but never towards the same groups for the same reasons. Thedas only really has imagery in common with real historical Europe. the chantry is, essentially in function anyways, the Catholic church. And most of the nations seem to be pretty much one to one with a real life equivalent. As are the religioms, histories, and cultures seem to be pulled right from real life. The specific timeline might be a little wonky but even then. Only three things which dont matchup all that well, to my knowledge anyways, are the Dalish, magi situation, and the Darkspawn. And thats one of the things i love about DA. Its our world, or at least a mirror of Europe around the same time period, but with enough differences...both sweeping and with nuance, that we can have an actual philosophical conversation. Even the "homophobia" of Tevinter, while its something that many face IRL, is different enough that it has interesting ramifications. Tevinter is concerned with preserving bloodlines, nothing more. The Chantry is incomparably different in ways that have social effects on western societies even today, though. There’s no Chantry doctrine that condemns homosexuality the way Abrahamic religions do, so any homophobia is down to much more changeable social norms in individual societies. Tevinter doesn’t allow same sex bonds because they put so much cultural impact on breeding, but they don’t view the act as at all morally wrong. Sexism is another area that can’t be compared in Thedas. The Chantry’s existence hinges on a female leader. No religion in Thedas claims women should be subservient to men. It’s a massive piece of real world social politics that just doesn’t exist in Thedas in the same context. Races (by skin tone) have always been integrated, taking out another massive obstacle for social politics in the real world. The problem isn’t that there are some historical similarities, like the militarized Templar army and the Catholic Church or assassinations and Southern Europe, but when you suggest there isn’t a realistic amount of bigotry based on the political climate of medieval Europe it misses the fact that the actual doctrine of the Chantry (or Dalish religion, or even the Qun) have not even tenuous connections to the real world texts that created that bigotry. The context just isn’t there for it in Thedas. Their reasons and prejudices exist for entirely different reasons.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 24, 2019 1:01:40 GMT
I want less masculine and slimmer LIs, so this went the opposite direction that I wanted lmao. But I don’t even think default Hawke is that different than those preset guys. lol
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 23:22:14 GMT
I mean they are pretty basic. They are pretty, but very.. basic. That’s what I thought, tbh. It’s like a random assortment of models for Axe body spray or something. lol
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 22:50:05 GMT
Studies suggest women mature neurologically in their early 20s and men in their mid 20s, but that doesn’t mean an 18 year old brain is exactly like a 9 year old brain. I’m not sure it’s really been stated in DA that exactly 18 is the age of adulthood. It seems like Dorian and a lot of nobles are considered barely at adulthood well that into their 20s. I’m just not sure what we’re “losing” here. It makes sense in a world where life expectancy is high for adulthood to be pushed higher. That’s what the real world reflects. Not to mention, a game supporting child abuse, child labor and pedophilia isn’t going to get a great response from mainstream audiences. It means we don't consider mental maturation the point of adulthood, we are considered adults at that age for other reasons. Most likely because 18 is when we graduate from school. And therefore there is no reason for THEDAS, a setting which has no formalised school system like we do, to have comparative views on the point of adulthood. Even if we did base our view of adulthood on mental maturity, which we don't, I would play the game and "how on earth did these backward yokels figure out the mental maturation point of a human being?" What we lose out on is in game realism. In a world which is still devoid of resources, overlooking a fine group of potential workers for reasons that can only be attributed to the moralities of another world, breaks suspension of disbelief for me. It’s not like it takes advanced scientific understanding to look at a 9 year old, or spend three minutes talking to one, and realize this person is not as physically or mentally developed as someone in their late teens or early twenties. It’s pretty realistic to me that the societies in DA would get that. The exact point that people emotionally develop isn’t really as important and it’s not like DA spells out what they consider an adult. It might be 18, 20, 25, who can guess? It’s not like real world human society has one age, either. Different countries have different ages of adulthood and individual countries often have different ages for different things. But there’s a little point where you have to realize this is an entertainment product for the modern world and to a certain extent they’re going to mostly bend to what real life audiences will buy. I think it’s realistic in a world where we routinely see older soldiers with grayed hair and wrinkles we can assume life expectancy is high enough that adulthood could be in the late teens to twenties. It’s not unrealistic to write a different world where your character is rewarded in 9 year old child brides, but the fact is most people hate pedophilia and will be grossed out by it. That’s not going to sell games, so they might as well stick with “adults are late teens to mid twenties somewhere” and make it work in context.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 22:37:46 GMT
What in game did you think was “too left”? I didn’t think anything in Inquisition seemed contradictory to what we previously knew about the world. Comparing Thedas to the real world medieval period seems off base to me, since morality in the real world and Thedas are based on entirely different faith based doctrines. The real medieval times have literally nothing to do with Thedas and where they derive their morality. In DAO I felt like the world had realism, due in part to the grubby, racist, unfair experiences of the people. It drew parallels with the real world which would differ depending on the player and their own life experiences, and I appreciated that. The elves were lower working class people from the North of England to me who are being abused by the rich, like my ancestors. To others they're black people in America or another minority. This is a sign of great storytelling, we all get something different from it. Then in DA2 it got a bit mushy with Anders, but still kept true to DAO. But in DAI I remember feeling like I was being preached to, just a little bit here and there. I became aware of the writer's intent, instead of being immersed in the story they were telling. The Qunari are a good example of this, Iron Bull's explanations of them differ from my experience of the Arishok, Sten and the attack on Kirkwall. I felt like they'd been washed over with a thin veil of modern ideals. Krem was great, at first I rolled my eyes as I felt this was a publicity stunt, but in fact his story informed the player about Tevinter and it's social classes, slavery, and attitude to women. In general it was just a....vague instinct that the writer was going for a particular narrative that seemed quite 2014, a story informed by the Twitter-sphere and hashtags. Just a teensy bit mind you, DAI is still my favourite of the 3. This became way more obvious in Andromeda, I didn't have enough facepalm emojis for the Angara asking what pronouns the Asari used. To me this ages the game terribly, as ME should be a game about the future but instead it was hitting the hot topics of 2015. Anyway, just my opinion. And I say the medieval world because I remember, right when I first played Origins, a reference saying that the world was based on 12th Century England. Not sure if it was accurate but it's always stuck with me, could just be a misunderstanding though. I think Iron Bull was supposed to be a more “normal” person in the qun. The Arishok is their military leader and Sten is the new Arishok. I think it makes sense that they have the most traditional, hardline views about the qun. But Tallis in DA2 already suggested not everyone was so inflexible. The qunari lands are thousands of people in multiple countries, racially qunari people and converts of all races. I think it makes more sense that people in those lands interpret the qun differently and some have more literal, hardline views than others. I don’t think Iron Bull (or Tallis) we’re meant to say the Arishok and Sten were retconned, but to offer an example of how not everyone who follows the qun is the same, just like every other culture in Thedas. They’re the qun at their most fundamentalist, which makes sense to me, considering their backgrounds.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 20:56:45 GMT
I mean, not really. We base those things on human development, not the other way around. lol Low life expectancies was the main reason people in the past had to act in adult ways before the brain fully matured. Thedas has magical healing and techniques that prolong lives more than our world did in medieval times, but people need to stop equating Thedas with our world in that time period just because it has dragons and some medieval imagery. It’s not actually historically or culturally relevant. but it is parallel. How? Medieval Europe derived their morality almost entirely from Christianity, which doesn’t exist in Thedas. There isn’t really a parallel. In the most vague sense on ideas like “bigotry exists”, but never towards the same groups for the same reasons. Thedas only really has imagery in common with real historical Europe.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 20:53:38 GMT
I mean, not really. We base those things on human development, not the other way around. lol Low life expectancies was the main reason people in the past had to act in adult ways before the brain fully matured. Thedas has magical healing and techniques that prolong lives more than our world did in medieval times, but people need to stop equating Thedas with our world in that time period just because it has dragons and some medieval imagery. It’s not actually historically or culturally relevant. The brain doesn't full mature until well into your 20s. Some researchers believe 25. Our age of adulthood does not correlate to either physical or mental maturity. Studies suggest women mature neurologically in their early 20s and men in their mid 20s, but that doesn’t mean an 18 year old brain is exactly like a 9 year old brain. I’m not sure it’s really been stated in DA that exactly 18 is the age of adulthood. It seems like Dorian and a lot of nobles are considered barely at adulthood well that into their 20s. I’m just not sure what we’re “losing” here. It makes sense in a world where life expectancy is high for adulthood to be pushed higher. That’s what the real world reflects. Not to mention, a game supporting child abuse, child labor and pedophilia isn’t going to get a great response from mainstream audiences.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 20:44:50 GMT
Nothing in the DA world actually implies they have a vastly different idea of what an “adult” is. You don’t see children in the armies of Thedas, even in crisis. You don’t really see much for child labor. The refugee children in Kirkwall are framed as something shocking and unusual for the world, not really something everyone sees as normal. Most nobles don’t seem pressured to marry until they’re well into adulthood. In the Last Flight books the wardens are reluctant to join teenagers from the Circle. All the information in game implies they see adulthood similarly to our society. Which is ridiculous considering our current view of adulthood relates to our school education system (18) that THEDAS does not have, or related to driving matters (21) which THEDAS also does not have. Which is one of the problems of inserting real life things in worlds where they do not fit. Also for a world that has a lot of resource problems (food, money, fighting power) it is very unrealistic to set aside a very capable group for no other reason than ... I mean, not really. We base those things on human development, not the other way around. lol Low life expectancies was the main reason people in the past had to act in adult ways before the brain fully matured. Thedas has magical healing and techniques that prolong lives more than our world did in medieval times, but people need to stop equating Thedas with our world in that time period just because it has dragons and some medieval imagery. It’s not actually historically or culturally relevant.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 20:39:32 GMT
I would be pissed if DA4 only had presets, but I really doubt they would do that, so I’m not really concerned. I just worry I won’t be able to be an elf again. lol
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 20:30:57 GMT
I'm not arguing for those things. I just think its bizarre to set some arbitrary age point where its suddenly ok in a fantasy game to kill an adult regardless of their guilt but its not to kill someone younger even if they've committed vile crimes. Isn't Joffrey 14 in the GOT books when he's killed. And in societies like the one Dragon Age depicts, the age of an adult was a lot younger than in today's world. If at the age of 9 you're supposed to go out and earn a living, are you still a child? So who is and isn't an adult changes from society to society. Nothing in the DA world actually implies they have a vastly different idea of what an “adult” is. You don’t see children in the armies of Thedas, even in crisis. You don’t really see much for child labor. The refugee children in Kirkwall are framed as something shocking and unusual for the world, not really something everyone sees as normal. Most nobles don’t seem pressured to marry until they’re well into adulthood. In the Last Flight books the wardens are reluctant to join teenagers from the Circle. All the information in game implies they see adulthood similarly to our society.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 20:14:27 GMT
I mean, I don’t think your viewpoint is in any way objectively wrong. The topic is highly subjective. I can understand why some people would be horrified by that quest, but I still think it’s not hard to see how a lot of people won’t hold onto that emotion when it’s erased in heir game state. Origins had individualized backgrounds that fleshed out the Warden and Hawke had his family and was probably the most defined of any bioware character. Some people like blank slates and create their own elaborate headcanon for them, but for a lot of people they’re just harder to connect to and invest in. I’m not saying Inquisition is objectively a bad game with a terrible cast, but I think there were changes that do make it harder for a lot of people to have the depth of emotional investment in the Inquisitor and his team that they had in past games. It’s not that it’s necessarily impossible that anyone had a different reaction. I'm proof it's not impossible. The Inquisitor is my favorite Bioware protagonist and I was far more invested in and connected to them than the more predetermined ones like Hawke who is my least favorite. That’s fair. People are never going to agree on the best way to write a protagonist. I’m not trying to present this as more than my subjective opinion. As for what’s favored by the majority, I really couldn’t say. Origins and Inquisition were both critically acclaimed successes, by and large. It seems there’s a big audience for both ways.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 19:59:33 GMT
Dragon Age should have it's own moral values, perhaps different to our own, and then be true to those going forward. I feel like they achieved that with DAO, but then started to lean further left as time went on and impose IRL values into a supposedly early medieval fantasy world. It ruins the immersion for me. Even if they do something despicable, if it's right for that world, then fine. What in game did you think was “too left”? I didn’t think anything in Inquisition seemed contradictory to what we previously knew about the world. Comparing Thedas to the real world medieval period seems off base to me, since morality in the real world and Thedas are based on entirely different faith based doctrines. The real medieval times have literally nothing to do with Thedas and where they derive their morality.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 19:52:05 GMT
I don’t think Leliana was necessary wrong, objectively speaking. These people lived and died and were forced to continue on in an undead half-life because we fucked up in that timeline. It is horrible, but selling the doomed timeline narrative to the audience is harder than things that are unavoidable in the final game state. You see your companions infected and Leliana, but then you play the rest of the game seeing them having never suffered those fates, so the lasting impact for most people will be pretty dulled. What are the lasting consequences? Did these people even exist once you went back in time? It’s a paradox that nobody really has the answer to. And that’s on top of the fact that, imo, inquisition does a worse job than the past two games making you feel deeply connected to the inquisitor and their team. i don't need those people to exist to feel empathy for them. And depending on which theory of time travel you ascribe too they are still out there, still suffering. All you did was avert that disaster in your timeline. That i just plain disagree with. Inquisition had by far biowares best cast and the inquisitor is a personal close third to Ryder and Hawke for favorite bioware protagonist. I mean, I don’t think your viewpoint is in any way objectively wrong. The topic is highly subjective. I can understand why some people would be horrified by that quest, but I still think it’s not hard to see how a lot of people won’t hold onto that emotion when it’s erased in heir game state. Origins had individualized backgrounds that fleshed out the Warden and Hawke had his family and was probably the most defined of any bioware character. Some people like blank slates and create their own elaborate headcanon for them, but for a lot of people they’re just harder to connect to and invest in. I’m not saying Inquisition is objectively a bad game with a terrible cast, but I think there were changes that do make it harder for a lot of people to have the depth of emotional investment in the Inquisitor and his team that they had in past games. It’s not that it’s necessarily impossible that anyone had a different reaction.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 19:16:47 GMT
I don’t think any of the choices I can remember offhand went “too far” for me. There are choices I just never take for personal preference reasons, but none I thought shouldn’t be included because they’re too offensive or whatever. The line for me is basically allowing real bigotry and a certain level of out of hand brutal violence. I remember on the old BSN there was a thread where multiple people argued your PC should be able to commit rape, which is literally unhinged to me. I don’t mean it can’t be a thing that bad guys do in game (nobles, Templars, etc), but not an option you have available. I’m not for hiring and murdering prostitutes, GTA style. No real life slurs against racial minorities, lgbt people or women. Just no “real” bigotry in the dialog choices. Things like “knife ear” and “shemlen” are fine. Bioware already isn’t doing any of the shit that I would think is going too far, so I’m basically fine with things the way they are. Yeah there's choices i wouldn't do but equally i'm fine for others to roleplay within limits.
I don't mind the hiring of prostitutes, though its not something i think of as a priority outside of showing it exists.
As you say there's plenty of fantasy insults based on the lore so why would you bring in real world minority insults. I'm certainly happy with them not adding committing rape.
Though i do recall Gaider discussing the potential scene involcing an envy demon impersonating leliana and sleeping with the player and some writers were calling it rapey. It may have ended up not making sense for the demon in question but i certainly wouldn't be going that it was unacceptable from some perceived rape angle.
To be clear, it’s not hiring prostitutes that I thought was too much. I don’t care if it is or isn’t a thing, but the GTA style of allowing you to hire them and then kill them to take back your money, I think is too much. One is arguably a consensual trade of goods and services, while the other is murder and (IMO) rape.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 18:48:19 GMT
I think, at least for me, the events of Inquisition feeling less personal we’re almost entirely why I wasn’t as invested or emotionally moved. I don’t think the things that happened were really more sanitized or less terrible, but they felt more remote. Like you said, the Templar in that scene wasn’t even named. You can see Fiona and a mage boy you meet like once infected with red lyrium, but the story hadn’t done much to make you care about them. And that whole segment gets undone, anyway. Leliana has lines in that reality about how none of this will seem real to Dorian, but I think most players have the same reaction. You can’t save Hespith or some alternate reality version. What happens to her and the other dwarf women is something horrible that you can’t stop or relegate to a doomed alternate timeline. I don’t think the team was actively trying to “dumb down” the emotional impact or make the world more friendly, but I think their choices did unintentionally make some parts of the game less impactful. I think the Origins in DA:O started out making the Warden feel more personal and the storytelling carried that through, where as the Inquisitor was a blank slate that rarely felt deeply connected to anything and it did hurt the story for me a bit. lack of cutscenes. Also your COMPANIONS were infected with Red Lyrium in that future too. I also have to side with L there. They are people, they suffered and we could have easily shared their fate if all the RTs and the clearly brainwashed Fiona we fight in IYHSB is any indication. I don’t think Leliana was necessary wrong, objectively speaking. These people lived and died and were forced to continue on in an undead half-life because we fucked up in that timeline. It is horrible, but selling the doomed timeline narrative to the audience is harder than things that are unavoidable in the final game state. You see your companions infected and Leliana, but then you play the rest of the game seeing them having never suffered those fates, so the lasting impact for most people will be pretty dulled. What are the lasting consequences? Did these people even exist once you went back in time? It’s a paradox that nobody really has the answer to. And that’s on top of the fact that, imo, inquisition does a worse job than the past two games making you feel deeply connected to the inquisitor and their team.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 18:26:53 GMT
it made me shudder nearly that badly. That scene and implications are HORRIBLE. I mean hell i wonder if the problem is that DA has been sanitized but if weve been decensitized. I thought about that, but....not if Hespith's story still comes across as horrible as it did in 2009. And if Leandra's conversion still strikes you the same way as it did 2011. I think a part of the problem is that DAI's horror is both less personal and less specific. That templar, for instance, just makes hints about what Imshael wanted him to do. No specifics. No idea if it actually was that horrible. And it was just a random red templar, he didn't even have a name. Also, Hespith was driven insane, and that came across well. The only scene in DAI that attempts something similar is Leliana in In Hushed Whispers. I'm not quite sure why it doesn't stick in our minds as well as Hespith's scene. Perhaps it's that Leliana shrugs it off rather casually. I recall I had that same premonition I had in DAO's Deep Roads when I realized what was happening to Leliana, but ..... the story didn't keep it up, and the tone she takes with Dorian doesn't help.
I think, at least for me, the events of Inquisition feeling less personal we’re almost entirely why I wasn’t as invested or emotionally moved. I don’t think the things that happened were really more sanitized or less terrible, but they felt more remote. Like you said, the Templar in that scene wasn’t even named. You can see Fiona and a mage boy you meet like once infected with red lyrium, but the story hadn’t done much to make you care about them. And that whole segment gets undone, anyway. Leliana has lines in that reality about how none of this will seem real to Dorian, but I think most players have the same reaction. You can’t save Hespith or some alternate reality version. What happens to her and the other dwarf women is something horrible that you can’t stop or relegate to a doomed alternate timeline. I don’t think the team was actively trying to “dumb down” the emotional impact or make the world more friendly, but I think their choices did unintentionally make some parts of the game less impactful. I think the Origins in DA:O started out making the Warden feel more personal and the storytelling carried that through, where as the Inquisitor was a blank slate that rarely felt deeply connected to anything and it did hurt the story for me a bit.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 18:05:05 GMT
I don’t think any of the choices I can remember offhand went “too far” for me. There are choices I just never take for personal preference reasons, but none I thought shouldn’t be included because they’re too offensive or whatever.
The line for me is basically allowing real bigotry and a certain level of out of hand brutal violence. I remember on the old BSN there was a thread where multiple people argued your PC should be able to commit rape, which is literally unhinged to me. I don’t mean it can’t be a thing that bad guys do in game (nobles, Templars, etc), but not an option you have available. I’m not for hiring and murdering prostitutes, GTA style. No real life slurs against racial minorities, lgbt people or women. Just no “real” bigotry in the dialog choices. Things like “knife ear” and “shemlen” are fine.
Bioware already isn’t doing any of the shit that I would think is going too far, so I’m basically fine with things the way they are.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 3:44:13 GMT
People calling Iron Bull’s qun style acceptance of Krem preachy in favor of trans rights is hilarious to me because it’s actually really, really not a very positive reflection of the lgbt movement in the West. It’s basically like saying Iran has a great lgbt track record. The qun forces people to change their gender based off what stereotypes they fill, it’s not an lgbt paradise. It’s pretty horrific. I feel like people miss the point that it’s just about the qun’s weird authoritarian shit in a new morally grey package. It’s not the first time they’ve tried something similar. I always thought it was noteworthy that Cassandra asks whether Bull considers her to be a man (in banter) and he evades the question. It was disappointing, too. I really wanted to see what his answer would be. I dunno if that's supposed to be a reflection of his waffling on the Qun and using certain aspects of it to suit his worldview (because the Qun allows him to see Krem as a man, in that case), or the writers just not going full bore on their stated vision for the Qun.
I don't consider it to be a "retcon." The Qun doesn't waste anything, so they will come up with their own rules to accommodate that. If women can't be fighters, but some women are suited to fighting, then they are "men." It makes perfect sense to me when you consider how warped the Qun is in their thinking and how they are perfectly willing to reshape that thinking so it's in accordance with their rules.
It's convenient in Krem's case, because he's a man. But what about women like Cassandra and Avaline? What if you're a fem warrior Inquisitor? What about men that are more suited to being artisans or shopkeepers? Those men exist in reality and those traits would have made themselves known as children. Are they "women?" Bull's description of it suggests they are. It has nothing at all to do with being trans and everything to do with fitting into a prescribed role, despite your gender.
That’s exactly how I saw it, also. The qun is structured to prioritize productivity above all else. It’s not really a morally dogmatic belief system like the basis for gender norms in the real world. The qun wants the cleanest running society with the least waste. They want people in the roles they best fill for society as the qun sees it, regardless what the individual wants. So, if you best fill the role the qun considers “man” or “woman”, then that’s what you are. I think DA loves playing with the idea of freedom and showing scenarios where certain groups are free in one society but not another, then challenging the player to look to their own beliefs and decide what’s “better”. When you challenge Dorian on slavery he says, well, most slaves are doing better than city elves and the poor down south. Is freedom worth it? Is it “better” that an elven mage can be a magister in Tevinter, but humans and elves can also be slaves? Does that point of lowered bigotry make them even overall? And Krem is a situation like this. A trans man that fills the role of soldier perfectly can exist in peace by the qun while facing death in Tevinter, so where does that square them as “free” societies? Who is worse when all their flaws are added and subtracted?
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Post by caladrius on Feb 23, 2019 3:05:40 GMT
People calling Iron Bull’s qun style acceptance of Krem preachy in favor of trans rights is hilarious to me because it’s actually really, really not a very positive reflection of the lgbt movement in the West. It’s basically like saying Iran has a great lgbt track record. The qun forces people to change their gender based off what stereotypes they fill, it’s not an lgbt paradise. It’s pretty horrific. I feel like people miss the point that it’s just about the qun’s weird authoritarian shit in a new morally grey package. It’s not the first time they’ve tried something similar.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 22, 2019 23:54:19 GMT
I’ve like every DA game, but Inquisition was honestly my least favorite. While it was my least favorite, I don’t understand claims that the “tone” was different, or that it was inconsistent, or in some way “sanitized”. I would really like to hear how people think there was a major shift in tone. I feel like some people confuse the narrative tone with the aesthetic of pretty forests and southern French style villas with Kirkwall being one big blood stain of a city with rusty spikes for guard rails, but those aren’t actual indicators of maturity or darkness.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 21, 2019 22:11:09 GMT
I also know it’s been said that Weekes only wrote ME3 Jack for years, but I never saw a concrete source either way. lol
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Post by caladrius on Feb 21, 2019 20:41:52 GMT
I think this must just be a disconnect on personal taste, because I thought DA2 had the strongest characters and Inquisition had the weakest. I’m not saying you’re “wrong”, though, I think it’s totally subjective. Well, I thought the non-romacneable cast was good, but I can't say I found myself drawn to the all-bi cast of romanceables. It would be wrong to say that I didn't like them just because of that, but it certainly didn't help me to really immerse into the world. In the end, it's a major, MAJOR plus for me to be a gay man and romance a gay man, or have the possbility to. It's something I actively look in games like this. And I will fight tooth and nail for the future of Dragon Age to include gay men who are not just Dorian. I always play a gay dude and romance a dude. It doesn’t matter to me if he’s confirmed the gayest gay, or confirmed bi, or left ambiguous. Dorian’s romance wasn’t that great for me, but I liked him outside the path it took and it definitely wasn’t him being gay that detracted, so much as just his emotional detachment. I do empathize with wanting to see a deeply developed romance in media between two specifically gay men, though. That part, I feel you on. It’s not something that happens a lot in media, so I understand fighting for it where you feel it’s most likely. I wish it was more common in other types of media so games like bioware’s could remain more ambiguous without feeling like something is being given up, since I feel like ambiguity lends well to the format. Well, and because more gays is just nice, generally.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 21, 2019 19:25:02 GMT
I just don’t see how the DA2 characters were in any way less developed despite some of them being written fairly ambiguous. I don’t see that in Fallout 4, either. It doesn’t seem particularly limiting to me. I don’t think any games actually have a full cast of characters that clearly state they’re gay/straight/bi and I think that would be more jarring than having some or all relatively open ended, like DA2 and Fallout 4. As for what games can have gay characters, any game can have them. I’m definitely not suggesting there shouldn’t be gay characters in bioware games. There can be gay characters in games like The Last of Us and Overwatch and any game that has humanoid characters that reference sexuality in any capacity, basically. I personally didn't care for DA2 because of this, and without me sounding like a jerk, I didn't feel like they had as strong of an identity as the other two games in the series. It did break my immersion and I wasn't as drawn into the characters. I think this must just be a disconnect on personal taste, because I thought DA2 had the strongest characters and Inquisition had the weakest. I’m not saying you’re “wrong”, though, I think it’s totally subjective.
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