inherit
1853
0
May 27, 2023 15:25:28 GMT
440
kalreegar
395
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on May 4, 2018 10:24:21 GMT
I always side with meredith. She is crazy, but IMO the circles are necessary. The alternative is tevinter. It's simple as that. Also, my canon hawke is nothing but an ambitious social climber, brave as you want, but still selfish, and templars rule kirkwall. Mages are nothig. So... Why? The Orlesian Empire's better than Tevinter? Not really. Social climber? It's a good reason. (And good thing, than the Templars betray Viscount Hawke and force him/her to exile...) Yes, the orlesian empire is better. And I don't role-play ex-post... my "canon" playthrough is always the first playthough (or something very very close to my first playthrough), because it's the most authentic, genuine:D also, meredith turns out to be really crazy only at the end, when the big choice has already been made
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 4, 2018 10:47:21 GMT
You're right, of course, but that doesn't answer what I actually said. What I said is that supporting the Circles in general doesn't mean that you'd support Meredith, and that a character who supports the Circles as they're meant to be probably won't support Meredith. Wasn't that a plot point towards the end of DA2?It would depend on what you mean by "accepting the Right of Annulment." If you mean that accepting the Right of Annulment in this case is evil, then yeah. That's actually exactly what I was trying to say. If you mean the Right of Annulment in general? That's a bit murkier. The magic system in this setting was deliberately designed to create the possibility of things going horribly wrong whenever magic's concerned. It is deliberately designed to create the possibility of a snowballing problem so big that the best solution is to cordon off the area and bombard it with trebuchets and ballistae. That it's also a setting where sometimes authority figures are bastard enough to solve insufficiently large problems that way doesn't erase that first problem. The Annulment is evil. In general. It doesn't serve any good – pure evil. Really? Because I honestly think a problem bad enough for that to be the solution is entirely possible. Any magic can result in a demon, but actually summoning a demon makes things yet more dangerous. The problem can be stopped right there and then, if someone capable of handling a demon gets in a lucky shot. Obviously, that's the ideal solution: make sure the problem is solved immediately. What happens if that plan fails? One rage demon in a cat can handle two templars. What can one rage demon in a mage, or anything stronger than that rage demon in that same cat, do? And it's not just the one demon: they'll want to bring more in. One could argue that the proper solution when things go completely to hell like that is to gather reinforcements and kill everything in that Circle that obviously shouldn't exist to rescue the innocents trapped inside. That's probably what you're picturing. And it worked in Kinloch Hold... through sheer luck. The Warden and a small group of other people with plot armor happened on the scene and killed everything. I almost said they did so with little effort due to their plot armor, but that's not entirely true, is it? Their hesitance to simply stab first and ask questions later ends with them taking a short nap in a Sloth Demon's lair, that probably would have been appreciably longer if their plot armor hadn't protected them. And while in that case it's simply plot-enforced stupidity, the Sloth demon could have managed to subdue them by possessing a child and hiding behind that face. What happens then, if the response to things actually getting that bad is a rescue mission rather than just salting the earth? And then when the Warden solves the problem, Cullen argues to keep the mages contained anyway because the mages could have demons inside them, lying in wait. Since we know we've solved the problem, that comes across as simple paranoia. But is it? In this case, it turns out not to have happened. In Redcliffe, it absolutely can. A mage Warden can intimidate the demon inside Connor into doing exactly that, and as I recall the demon itself suggests it. So we know there are demons smart enough to think of this. I only went along with Cullen once, in my evil playthrough. But looking back, his suggestion makes so much sense it scares me.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 10:48:31 GMT
Why? The Orlesian Empire's better than Tevinter? Not really. Social climber? It's a good reason. (And good thing, than the Templars betray Viscount Hawke and force him/her to exile...) Yes, the orlesian empire is better. And I don't role-play ex-post... my "canon" playthrough is always the first playthough (or something very very close to my first playthrough), because it's the most authentic, genuine:D also, meredith turns out to be really crazy only at the end, when the big choice has already been made According to me, the Orlesian Empire just as corrupt as Tevinter. Most of the Orlesian nobles are awful, just as most of the Tevinter Magisters. And there are good, noble persons among the Tevinter Magisters too. Yes, the slavery is unacceptable, but Fiona was a sex slave in Orlais in her childhood... Meredith was a mad criminal from the beginning. And later even Cullen realizes it – only he doesn't see THAT madness in her eyes, what he saw in Uldred's eyes, right before he turned into a raging abomination – YET... I see your point about the first PT – but I don't have one "canon" PT, but I usually do similar choices – I have my limits in RP.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 4, 2018 11:01:58 GMT
Yes, the orlesian empire is better. And I don't role-play ex-post... my "canon" playthrough is always the first playthough (or something very very close to my first playthrough), because it's the most authentic, genuine:D also, meredith turns out to be really crazy only at the end, when the big choice has already been made According to me, the Orlesian Empire just as corrupt as Tevinter. Most of the Orlesian nobles are awful, just as most of the Tevinter Magisters. And there are good, noble persons among the Tevinter Magisters too. Yes, the slavery is unacceptable, but Fiona was a sex slave in Orlais in her childhood... I think we can all agree that when it comes right down to it, the main difference between the two is that the Tevinter Magisters are mages and the Orlesian nobles aren't. But that's not a difference to skate over. It doesn't make the Tevinter magisters worse morally, but it does make them worse practically, given how blood magic works in this setting. We know that Empress Celene, at least, is willing to sacrifice her servants lives for her own benefit. But I can only think of one case where she found a way to do that: when she was a child trying to take the throne, and was able to use her servants' deaths to fake an attempt on her own life. That's bad, but it's not quite as bad as what I imagine she'd do if completely exsanguinating a servant or three allowed her to dramatically reshape the world to her benefit in whatever way her creativity inspired. Especially if she could do this whenever she wanted as often as she could spare the servants. I expect she'd have a rather impressive pile of corpses under her quite quickly, if the world worked that way for her. And there are nobles in this setting at least as amoral as she is for whom the world does work that way.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 12:16:08 GMT
According to me, the Orlesian Empire just as corrupt as Tevinter. Most of the Orlesian nobles are awful, just as most of the Tevinter Magisters. And there are good, noble persons among the Tevinter Magisters too. Yes, the slavery is unacceptable, but Fiona was a sex slave in Orlais in her childhood... I think we can all agree that when it comes right down to it, the main difference between the two is that the Tevinter Magisters are mages and the Orlesian nobles aren't. But that's not a difference to skate over. It doesn't make the Tevinter magisters worse morally, but it does make them worse practically, given how blood magic works in this setting. We know that Empress Celene, at least, is willing to sacrifice her servants lives for her own benefit. But I can only think of one case where she found a way to do that: when she was a child trying to take the throne, and was able to use her servants' deaths to fake an attempt on her own life. That's bad, but it's not quite as bad as what I imagine she'd do if completely exsanguinating a servant or three allowed her to dramatically reshape the world to her benefit in whatever way her creativity inspired. Especially if she could do this whenever she wanted as often as she could spare the servants. I expect she'd have a rather impressive pile of corpses under her quite quickly, if the world worked that way for her. And there are nobles in this setting at least as amoral as she is for whom the world does work that way. Yes, I reluctantly can agree, of course it was maybe exaggeration, but not because of the magic, rather because of the morality (strongly based on the religion). The key is the human sacrifice for more power. This is also forbidden in Tevinter, but the acceptance still more comprehensive. But this is what we seen in Orlais: Celene sacrificed a whole Alienage for power. Not for magical power, but still. Orlais corrupt as Tevinter is. You even can't prevent a noble from using magic (mage) for expand his/her political power and shape the world. And the Circles existence can't prevent this – we saw, the nobles can have a mage...
|
|
inherit
9612
0
Mar 20, 2023 18:07:47 GMT
22
pathogen7
20
December 2017
pathogen7
|
Post by pathogen7 on May 4, 2018 12:53:38 GMT
And then when the Warden solves the problem, Cullen argues to keep the mages contained anyway because the mages could have demons inside them, lying in wait. Since we know we've solved the problem, that comes across as simple paranoia. But is it? In this case, it turns out not to have happened. In Redcliffe, it absolutely can. A mage Warden can intimidate the demon inside Connor into doing exactly that, and as I recall the demon itself suggests it. So we know there are demons smart enough to think of this. I only went along with Cullen once, in my evil playthrough. But looking back, his suggestion makes so much sense it scares me. It can also happen in the Shale's DLC. You can allow the demon to lie dormant in the little girl. If you do this, her dad is completely oblivious to the fact that his little girl is possessed. Demons lying dormant in random people is a seriously frightening thought.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 13:12:29 GMT
And then when the Warden solves the problem, Cullen argues to keep the mages contained anyway because the mages could have demons inside them, lying in wait. Since we know we've solved the problem, that comes across as simple paranoia. But is it? In this case, it turns out not to have happened. In Redcliffe, it absolutely can. A mage Warden can intimidate the demon inside Connor into doing exactly that, and as I recall the demon itself suggests it. So we know there are demons smart enough to think of this. I only went along with Cullen once, in my evil playthrough. But looking back, his suggestion makes so much sense it scares me. It can also happen in the Shale's DLC. You can allow the demon to lie dormant in the little girl. If you do this, her dad is completely oblivious to the fact that his little girl is possessed. Demons lying dormant in random people is a seriously frightening thought. Yes. This is frightening. And this is what the Circle-system can't handle – because focuses to lock every mages, instead of solving the real problems – in cooperation with the mages.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 13:18:59 GMT
The Annulment is evil. In general. It doesn't serve any good – pure evil. Really? Because I honestly think a problem bad enough for that to be the solution is entirely possible.
Any magic can result in a demon, but actually summoning a demon makes things yet more dangerous. The problem can be stopped right there and then, if someone capable of handling a demon gets in a lucky shot. Obviously, that's the ideal solution: make sure the problem is solved immediately. What happens if that plan fails? One rage demon in a cat can handle two templars. What can one rage demon in a mage, or anything stronger than that rage demon in that same cat, do? And it's not just the one demon: they'll want to bring more in.
One could argue that the proper solution when things go completely to hell like that is to gather reinforcements and kill everything in that Circle that obviously shouldn't exist to rescue the innocents trapped inside. That's probably what you're picturing. And it worked in Kinloch Hold... through sheer luck. The Warden and a small group of other people with plot armor happened on the scene and killed everything. I almost said they did so with little effort due to their plot armor, but that's not entirely true, is it? Their hesitance to simply stab first and ask questions later ends with them taking a short nap in a Sloth Demon's lair, that probably would have been appreciably longer if their plot armor hadn't protected them. And while in that case it's simply plot-enforced stupidity, the Sloth demon could have managed to subdue them by possessing a child and hiding behind that face. What happens then, if the response to things actually getting that bad is a rescue mission rather than just salting the earth? And then when the Warden solves the problem, Cullen argues to keep the mages contained anyway because the mages could have demons inside them, lying in wait. Since we know we've solved the problem, that comes across as simple paranoia. But is it? In this case, it turns out not to have happened. In Redcliffe, it absolutely can. A mage Warden can intimidate the demon inside Connor into doing exactly that, and as I recall the demon itself suggests it. So we know there are demons smart enough to think of this. I only went along with Cullen once, in my evil playthrough. But looking back, his suggestion makes so much sense it scares me. Yes, me too – the fact, that someone can think about, that it makes sense. And I know, many people can.
|
|
inherit
1853
0
May 27, 2023 15:25:28 GMT
440
kalreegar
395
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on May 4, 2018 14:19:40 GMT
Yes, the orlesian empire is better. And I don't role-play ex-post... my "canon" playthrough is always the first playthough (or something very very close to my first playthrough), because it's the most authentic, genuine:D also, meredith turns out to be really crazy only at the end, when the big choice has already been made According to me, the Orlesian Empire just as corrupt as Tevinter. Most of the Orlesian nobles are awful, just as most of the Tevinter Magisters. And there are good, noble persons among the Tevinter Magisters too. Yes, the slavery is unacceptable, but Fiona was a sex slave in Orlais in her childhood... Meredith was a mad criminal from the beginning. And later even Cullen realizes it – only he doesn't see THAT madness in her eyes, what he saw in Uldred's eyes, right before he turned into a raging abomination – YET... I see your point about the first PT – but I don't have one "canon" PT, but I usually do similar choices – I have my limits in RP. I don't really care about slavery... I mean, I do, but most of all I fear what mages with free and unrestricted power can do to the very fabric of reality. Corypheus, the blight, Solas messing with the Fade, the Evanuris... I mean, dangerous stuff. If I have to stand with nazi like meredith and apply the right to annulment from time to time in order to prevent the apocalypse, so be it. The catalyst would agree I do similar choiches too, but, for example, in my first playthrough bethany died in the deep roads. Yeah, bad mistake, I felt very bad etc. Next playthrough I bring anders too and saved her, because I dont' want her to die, but, in the end, my first, "true"hawke, the one to whom I feel emotionally connected, is the first one, the one who has lost his sister and, with her, any personal, inner reason to defend and side with mages
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 14:38:40 GMT
According to me, the Orlesian Empire just as corrupt as Tevinter. Most of the Orlesian nobles are awful, just as most of the Tevinter Magisters. And there are good, noble persons among the Tevinter Magisters too. Yes, the slavery is unacceptable, but Fiona was a sex slave in Orlais in her childhood... Meredith was a mad criminal from the beginning. And later even Cullen realizes it – only he doesn't see THAT madness in her eyes, what he saw in Uldred's eyes, right before he turned into a raging abomination – YET... I see your point about the first PT – but I don't have one "canon" PT, but I usually do similar choices – I have my limits in RP. I don't really care about slavery... I mean, I do, but most of all I fear what mages with free and unrestricted power can do to the very fabric of reality. Corypheus, the blight, Solas messing with the Fade, the Evanuris... I mean, dangerous stuff. If I have to stand with nazi like meredith and apply the right to annulment from time to time in order to prevent the apocalypse, so be it. The catalyst would agree I do similar choiches too, but, for example, in my first playthrough bethany died in the deep roads. Yeah, bad mistake, I felt very bad etc. Next playthrough I bring anders too and saved her, because I dont' want her to die, but, in the end, my first, "true"hawke, the one to whom I feel emotionally connected, is the first one, the one who has lost his sister and, with her, any personal, inner reason to defend and side with mages This isn't "Nazi" this is paranoia, and the institutionalized paranoia is dangerous, more than Corypheus. Because doesn't prevent the big problems, but keep in fear the people, who attack each other... The institutionalized paranoia scatters the energy on everyone and everything, instead of focusing on the real problem. The prison-Circles can't prevent Solas or Corypheus (not even Connor and Amelia...), but cant torture innocents.
|
|
inherit
1853
0
May 27, 2023 15:25:28 GMT
440
kalreegar
395
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on May 4, 2018 15:14:02 GMT
The prison-Cyrcles can't prevent Solas or Corypheus (not even Connor and Amelia...), but cant torture innocen well, I have to disagree... Solas and Cory they gained unlimited power and devastated civilization and reality in a world without circle. In a world where they (the mages) rule. On the other hand, the prison-cyrcle system proved to be effective for almost a thousand year. Yeah, It is not perfect, but I don't really care about connor or amelia or some right of annulment of if anders is sad. The important thing is that no crazy mage mess with reality during this time. The qunari method is effective too, but THAT is excessive. Maybe. So, I'll defend the status quo, as far as possibile, in every DA game. For example, Vivienne is my divine if someone comes up with a better idea to eradicate dangerous magic from the world without hurting anyone, I will listen to him with great interest
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 15:53:04 GMT
The prison-Cyrcles can't prevent Solas or Corypheus (not even Connor and Amelia...), but cant torture innocen well, I have to disagree... Solas and Cory they gained unlimited power and devastated civilization and reality in a world without circle. In a world where they (the mages) rule. On the other hand, the prison-cyrcle system proved to be effective for almost a thousand year. Yeah, It is not perfect, but I don't really care about connor or amelia or some right of annulment of if anders is sad. The important thing is that no crazy mage mess with reality during this time. The qunari method is effective too, but THAT is excessive. Maybe. So, I'll defend the status quo, as far as possibile, in every DA game. For example, Vivienne is my divine if someone comes up with a better idea to eradicate dangerous magic from the world without hurting anyone, I will listen to him with great interest Well, of course: Circles as education and magical research centres, libraies, where the mages able to master their abilities, and work in safe, but they would able to have family, and leave the Circle without permission, this would be more effective against the cases, as Connor's and Amelia's – effective anti-magical force (Mages with Seekers/Templars-kind non-mages together – for effectiveness and trust), these would be more effective against the rogue mages, and would be able to handle the first accidents too, in more humane way – registration (Phylactery-system). This is the only way. Perhaps, not perfect, but much better: humane and safer then the prison-Circles. Everyone wins. And you can't prevent the accidents and the random possessions. Good you mentioned the Qun. If we need to chose ally, between the Qun and Tevinter, I would chose Tevinter, ofc. The Qunari society is the best example, that not only the mages able to control the mind. And this is forbidden in Tevinter, but legal in Par Vollen. Under the Qun, everyone a slave. And: do you don't want a new Tevinter... but you chose Vivienne? A Magister-Divine? With every power in her hand? Seems... weird.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 4, 2018 20:44:29 GMT
Really? Because I honestly think a problem bad enough for that to be the solution is entirely possible.
Any magic can result in a demon, but actually summoning a demon makes things yet more dangerous. The problem can be stopped right there and then, if someone capable of handling a demon gets in a lucky shot. Obviously, that's the ideal solution: make sure the problem is solved immediately. What happens if that plan fails? One rage demon in a cat can handle two templars. What can one rage demon in a mage, or anything stronger than that rage demon in that same cat, do? And it's not just the one demon: they'll want to bring more in.
One could argue that the proper solution when things go completely to hell like that is to gather reinforcements and kill everything in that Circle that obviously shouldn't exist to rescue the innocents trapped inside. That's probably what you're picturing. And it worked in Kinloch Hold... through sheer luck. The Warden and a small group of other people with plot armor happened on the scene and killed everything. I almost said they did so with little effort due to their plot armor, but that's not entirely true, is it? Their hesitance to simply stab first and ask questions later ends with them taking a short nap in a Sloth Demon's lair, that probably would have been appreciably longer if their plot armor hadn't protected them. And while in that case it's simply plot-enforced stupidity, the Sloth demon could have managed to subdue them by possessing a child and hiding behind that face. What happens then, if the response to things actually getting that bad is a rescue mission rather than just salting the earth? And then when the Warden solves the problem, Cullen argues to keep the mages contained anyway because the mages could have demons inside them, lying in wait. Since we know we've solved the problem, that comes across as simple paranoia. But is it? In this case, it turns out not to have happened. In Redcliffe, it absolutely can. A mage Warden can intimidate the demon inside Connor into doing exactly that, and as I recall the demon itself suggests it. So we know there are demons smart enough to think of this. I only went along with Cullen once, in my evil playthrough. But looking back, his suggestion makes so much sense it scares me. Yes, me too – the fact, that someone can think about, that it makes sense. And I know, many people can. Fair enough. I don't like how much sense it makes either. But do you have a reasonable alternative to that solution? It can also happen in the Shale's DLC. You can allow the demon to lie dormant in the little girl. If you do this, her dad is completely oblivious to the fact that his little girl is possessed. Demons lying dormant in random people is a seriously frightening thought. Yes. This is frightening. And this is what the Circle-system can't handle – because focuses to lock every mages, instead of solving the real problems – in cooperation with the mages. Then what's your solution to the thought of demons lying dormant in a mostly random set of people, if it's not keeping the people with the power to deliberately summon them, and a greater risk of accidentally summoning them, away from the general population?
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 20:53:46 GMT
Yes, me too – the fact, that someone can think about, that it makes sense. And I know, many people can. Fair enough. I don't like how much sense it makes either. But do you have a reasonable alternative to that solution? Anders.
|
|
inherit
331
0
Member is Online
Apr 20, 2024 13:01:47 GMT
5,820
q5tyhj
white while, holy grail
1,996
August 2016
q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
q5tyhj
|
Post by q5tyhj on May 4, 2018 21:10:08 GMT
You're right, of course, but that doesn't answer what I actually said. What I said is that supporting the Circles in general doesn't mean that you'd support Meredith, and that a character who supports the Circles as they're meant to be probably won't support Meredith. Wasn't that a plot point towards the end of DA2?It would depend on what you mean by "accepting the Right of Annulment." If you mean that accepting the Right of Annulment in this case is evil, then yeah. That's actually exactly what I was trying to say. If you mean the Right of Annulment in general? That's a bit murkier. The magic system in this setting was deliberately designed to create the possibility of things going horribly wrong whenever magic's concerned. It is deliberately designed to create the possibility of a snowballing problem so big that the best solution is to cordon off the area and bombard it with trebuchets and ballistae. That it's also a setting where sometimes authority figures are bastard enough to solve insufficiently large problems that way doesn't erase that first problem. The Annulment is evil. In general. It doesn't serve any good – pure evil. I'm really conflicted about this. On the one hand, killing an entire group of people, possibly/likely including children (i.e. the apprentices- as I mentioned in the werewolves thread, all indications are that the Right of Annulment includes killing the apprentices as well, one Codex Entry pretty much explicitly says as much), is, on its face, evil. But, as riverdaleswhiteflash has very adequately covered, the Dragon Age in-game logic and lore are such that magic poses a serious and genuine threat, and so some sort of nuclear button for when things go completely sideways is probably necessary, else it can lead to great evil and suffering as well. But, especially given the general anti-mage sentiment (prejudice) in Thedas and particularly among the chantry and the templars, the existence of something like the Right of Annulment is ripe for abuse: indeed, we only really ever see it abused in Dragon Age games. And this leads to atrocity. So I honestly don't know where I land on this issue. Maybe having the Right of Annulment, but making it much harder to actually receive permission for, and making abuses of the Right subject to extreme punishment. But even that may not be enough.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 21:27:46 GMT
The Annulment is evil. In general. It doesn't serve any good – pure evil. I'm really conflicted about this. On the one hand, killing an entire group of people, possibly/likely including children (i.e. the apprentices- as I mentioned in the werewolves thread, all indications are that the Right of Annulment includes killing the apprentices as well, one Codex Entry pretty much explicitly says as much), is, on its face, evil. But, as riverdaleswhiteflash has very adequately covered, the Dragon Age in-game logic and lore are such that magic poses a serious and genuine threat, and so some sort of nuclear button for when things go completely sideways is probably necessary, else it can lead to great evil and suffering as well. But, especially given the general anti-mage sentiment (prejudice) in Thedas and particularly among the chantry and the templars, the existence of something like the Right of Annulment is ripe for abuse: indeed, we only really ever see it abused in Dragon Age games. And this leads to atrocity. So I honestly don't know where I land on this issue. Maybe having the Right of Annulment, but making it much harder to actually receive permission for, and making abuses of the Right subject to extreme punishment. But even that may not be enough. This is exactly why Anders' act can be justified. The paranoia permeates the entire society – and the mages can't do anything against it, but lock up them, and from time to time kill them because of the fear, because the people think, they're no more than living weapons, walking bombs, monsters, cursed etc... so, their reputation already shit, and will not change. Nobody will let them just free – so, their freedom is in their hand. Bethany at the Gallows: "All these years I tried to understand what Andraste saw. Why she had to lock us up. But my powers come from the Maker... and I just cannot believe that is His will. [...] A new age begins today. People will overcome their fears and find a better way to live with the mages."
Naive? Perhaps, but there's no other solution because the existent is inhumane. Yes, this is a paranoid world, and of course, people have reason to the fear, nobody denied it. But locking the "problem", will not solve the problem, only makes the paranoia permanent. At first, yes, people will be shocked, but they become accustomed over time. The freedom is hard to everyone.
|
|
inherit
331
0
Member is Online
Apr 20, 2024 13:01:47 GMT
5,820
q5tyhj
white while, holy grail
1,996
August 2016
q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
q5tyhj
|
Post by q5tyhj on May 4, 2018 21:59:48 GMT
I'm really conflicted about this. On the one hand, killing an entire group of people, possibly/likely including children (i.e. the apprentices- as I mentioned in the werewolves thread, all indications are that the Right of Annulment includes killing the apprentices as well, one Codex Entry pretty much explicitly says as much), is, on its face, evil. But, as riverdaleswhiteflash has very adequately covered, the Dragon Age in-game logic and lore are such that magic poses a serious and genuine threat, and so some sort of nuclear button for when things go completely sideways is probably necessary, else it can lead to great evil and suffering as well. But, especially given the general anti-mage sentiment (prejudice) in Thedas and particularly among the chantry and the templars, the existence of something like the Right of Annulment is ripe for abuse: indeed, we only really ever see it abused in Dragon Age games. And this leads to atrocity. So I honestly don't know where I land on this issue. Maybe having the Right of Annulment, but making it much harder to actually receive permission for, and making abuses of the Right subject to extreme punishment. But even that may not be enough. This is exactly why Anders' act can be justified. The paranoia permeates the entire society – and the mages can't do anything against it, but lock up them, and from time to time kill them because of the fear, because the people think, they're no more than living weapons, walking bombs, monsters, cursed etc... so, their reputation already shit, and will not change. Nobody will let them just free – so, their freedom is in their hand. Bethany at the Gallows: "All these years I tried to understand what Andraste saw. Why she had to lock us up. But my powers come from the Maker... and I just cannot believe that is His will. [...] A new age begins today. People will overcome their fears and find a better way to live with the mages."
Naive? Perhaps, but there's no other solution because the existent is inhumane. Yes, this is a paranoid world, and of course, people have reason to the fear, nobody denied it. But locking the "problem", will not solve the problem, only makes the paranoia permanent. At first, yes, people will be shocked, but they become accustomed over time. The freedom is hard to everyone. I agree that the entire Circle system is unjust, and I have significant moral misgivings about the Right of Annulment. I still disagree about Anders' attack on the chantry being justified though, even if it ultimately leads to the formation of a more just system for dealing with magic (good/positive consequences often come from bad/negative actions, that doesn't justify the bad/negative action, it just speaks to the unpredictability, the "butterfly effect", that our actions can have on the broader world). But the fact that the entire system is an injustice is precisely why Anders' cause is just, even if his methods are not.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 22:16:18 GMT
This is exactly why Anders' act can be justified. The paranoia permeates the entire society – and the mages can't do anything against it, but lock up them, and from time to time kill them because of the fear, because the people think, they're no more than living weapons, walking bombs, monsters, cursed etc... so, their reputation already shit, and will not change. Nobody will let them just free – so, their freedom is in their hand.
Bethany at the Gallows: "All these years I tried to understand what Andraste saw. Why she had to lock us up. But my powers come from the Maker... and I just cannot believe that is His will. [...] A new age begins today. People will overcome their fears and find a better way to live with the mages."
Naive? Perhaps, but there's no other solution because the existent is inhumane.
Yes, this is a paranoid world, and of course, people have reason to the fear, nobody denied it. But locking the "problem", will not solve the problem, only makes the paranoia permanent. At first, yes, people will be shocked, but they become accustomed over time. The freedom is hard to everyone. I agree that the entire Circle system is unjust, and I have significant moral misgivings about the Right of Annulment. I still disagree about Anders' attack on the chantry being justified though, even if it ultimately leads to the formation of a more just system for dealing with magic (good/positive consequences often come from bad/negative actions, that doesn't justify the bad/negative action, it just speaks to the unpredictability, the "butterfly effect", that our actions can have on the broader world). But the fact that the entire system is an injustice is precisely why Anders' cause is just, even if his methods are not. Yes, I got you, this is a clearly cruel act, I never denied.
|
|
inherit
331
0
Member is Online
Apr 20, 2024 13:01:47 GMT
5,820
q5tyhj
white while, holy grail
1,996
August 2016
q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
q5tyhj
|
Post by q5tyhj on May 4, 2018 22:47:40 GMT
I agree that the entire Circle system is unjust, and I have significant moral misgivings about the Right of Annulment. I still disagree about Anders' attack on the chantry being justified though, even if it ultimately leads to the formation of a more just system for dealing with magic (good/positive consequences often come from bad/negative actions, that doesn't justify the bad/negative action, it just speaks to the unpredictability, the "butterfly effect", that our actions can have on the broader world). But the fact that the entire system is an injustice is precisely why Anders' cause is just, even if his methods are not. Yes, I got you, this is a clearly cruel act, I never denied. I don't think "cruel" is the right word, "cruelty" usually means a desire to cause, or pleasure in causing, suffering. Anders' attack on the chantry was not cruel, he definitely did not do it because he takes pleasure in causing suffering- the fact that he causes suffering clearly bothers him deeply, and thus his willingness to accept his own death. Unjust, sure, cruel, no.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 4, 2018 22:57:19 GMT
Yes, I got you, this is a clearly cruel act, I never denied. I don't think "cruel" is the right word, "cruelty" usually means a desire to cause, or pleasure in causing, suffering. Anders' attack on the chantry was not cruel, he definitely did not do it because he takes pleasure in causing suffering- the fact that he causes suffering clearly bothers him deeply, and thus his willingness to accept his own death. Unjust, sure, cruel, no. Anders' answer:
|
|
Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
inherit
1605
0
Dec 12, 2020 23:48:50 GMT
952
Cantina
Vive la révolution mages!
532
Sept 16, 2016 20:16:02 GMT
September 2016
cantina
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Cantina on May 5, 2018 0:00:03 GMT
Curious as to the total number of mages killed in the 20 Rights of Annulment (number according to Wikia) According to the Wikia one right was used to supposedly cover up a Knight Commanders murder of over hundred mages. In Dairsmuid the mages were with their families and were executed for that. Meredith went ahead and killed the Kirkwall mages who did nothing. I don't know seems at least some of the annulments are criminal, unjust and an abuse of power by the Chantry and/or knight Commander. That is the overall problem. Magic is NOT the problem. The problem is: the one who wields the magic. If a solider runs out and stabs someone, would you blame the sword and then lock every person who knows how to use it just to keep people safe? Look, I for one 100% agree with Anders. However, it was utter bullshit on Meredith's part to invoke the Right of Annulment when the person responsible was standing just a few inches from her. (Yep. Uncanny. Only time I agreed with Seabass). When a murder was running loose through the streets of Kirkwall, the Viscount did not say, "Well, time to execute the whole city." Templars/Seekers claim they seek out mage problems and deal with them. So, they should do just that: deal with it. Not make a small problem into a mountain simply because they want to make their job easier. They protect innocents by killing innocents. Yeah. Makes complete sense. Right of Annulment should not exist in the first place. Its a piss poor excuse for The Chantry, Seekers and Templars to wipe out an entire Circle to be rid of there so-called "problem."
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 5, 2018 10:37:34 GMT
Curious as to the total number of mages killed in the 20 Rights of Annulment (number according to Wikia) According to the Wikia one right was used to supposedly cover up a Knight Commanders murder of over hundred mages. In Dairsmuid the mages were with their families and were executed for that. Meredith went ahead and killed the Kirkwall mages who did nothing. I don't know seems at least some of the annulments are criminal, unjust and an abuse of power by the Chantry and/or knight Commander. That is the overall problem. Magic is NOT the problem. The problem is: the one who wields the magic. Well, as pertains to most settings with magic or similar powers, maybe even 99.9% of them, I'd agree with you. But I think it's an oversimplification in this setting. This is one where misuse of magic isn't the only problem, and probably isn't even the worst problem. This is one where being a mage makes you more vulnerable to accidental possession by beings that at the low end of the spectrum can handle trained knights, and at the high end of the spectrum can handle cities. Are we sure magic itself is never the problem? If a solider runs out and stabs someone, would you blame the sword and then lock every person who knows how to use it just to keep people safe? I'd consider trying to solve the problem by keeping swords and such things off the streets. And in this case, that requires keeping the wielders off the streets, since you can't separate the magic from the mage as easily as you can separate a swordsman from his sword. But, and I can't emphasize this enough, that wouldn't be enough reason for me to consider locking up mages if it weren't for the problem I describe above. Look, I for one 100% agree with Anders. However, it was utter bullshit on Meredith's part to invoke the Right of Annulment when the person responsible was standing just a few inches from her. (Yep. Uncanny. Only time I agreed with Seabass). Well, yeah. As I pointed out on the last page, supporting the Right of Annulment in general doesn't predict whether or not you'll support it here, because this is not what it was meant for. When a murder was running loose through the streets of Kirkwall, the Viscount did not say, "Well, time to execute the whole city." Templars/Seekers claim they seek out mage problems and deal with them. So, they should do just that: deal with it. Not make a small problem into a mountain simply because they want to make their job easier. They protect innocents by killing innocents. Yeah. Makes complete sense. Right of Annulment should not exist in the first place. Its a piss poor excuse for The Chantry, Seekers and Templars to wipe out an entire Circle to be rid of there so-called "problem." If the phrase "make a small problem into a mountain" is at all applicable, then you're attacking a use of the Right of Annulment that I'm not seeking to defend. The Annulment is supposed to be the way the Templars and Seekers solve mountainous problems. That is the only use of it I'm seeking to defend, because that's the only remotely defensible use for it. And mountainous problems are entirely possible in this system of magic. If a murderer had gotten control of every single guard and every other other half-competent swordsman in the city by a combination of mind-control of living targets and necromancy on slain victims, and was using his new army as muscle in a plan to either mind-control or kill all of Kirkwall, the Viscount might have weighed the possibility of killing every single thing in the city to solve the problem. We can be entirely sure his neighbors would have. The reason the Right of Annulment exists is that there is a class of murderer in this setting that can create that class of problem, and it's generally kept in the Circles. The fact that it's abused to handle other situations doesn't erase that fact. Curious as to the total number of mages killed in the 20 Rights of Annulment (number according to Wikia) According to the Wikia one right was used to supposedly cover up a Knight Commanders murder of over hundred mages. In Dairsmuid the mages were with their families and were executed for that. Meredith went ahead and killed the Kirkwall mages who did nothing. I don't know seems at least some of the annulments are criminal, unjust and an abuse of power by the Chantry and/or knight Commander. Well, yeah. Some are. I conceded that in my first post on the subject. I don't think it erases the fact that there is a potential use for the RoA that is neither criminal nor an abuse of power. That use being when things have gone all the way to hell to the point that nothing less than the Annulment is likely to work. Maybe having the Right of Annulment, but making it much harder to actually receive permission for, and making abuses of the Right subject to extreme punishment. But even that may not be enough. It's already not easy to do. Under ordinary circumstances, the Knight-Commander has to receive permission from a civilian Grand Cleric who is probably far less willing to resort to extreme violence than a trained knight would be. If that means sending a messenger across the entirety of the country that Grand Cleric rules, and waiting for that messenger to return, that's what the Knight-Commander has to do. If the Grand Cleric says no, the KC's only recourse is to go over the Grand Cleric's head, and if that fails the Knight-Commander is out of luck. (If Meredith makes it seem easier than that, Word of Gaider is that it's because she used a loophole that lets Knight-Commanders use their own judgement if the Grand Cleric is dead and there's no obvious candidate to serve as acting Grand Cleric. Such as when the Chantry the Grand Cleric was sitting in gets scattered across an entire city.) As for harshly punishing abuse of the RoA, I can't imagine that's not already done. Word of Gaider is that Meredith would have been called to Val Royeaux to face a not-particularly-friendly talk with the Divine about her decision if she'd survived the results of it. And the guy who was responsible for the massacre that dustyelf describes was eventually picked up by the Seekers. It sounds like the authorities Templars are responsible to actually cared to make sure the RoA wasn't abused, back before everything got turned completely upside down. Fair enough. I don't like how much sense it makes either. But do you have a reasonable alternative to that solution? Anders. Anders is your alternative solution to the thought of demons possessing innocents? well, I have to disagree... Solas and Cory they gained unlimited power and devastated civilization and reality in a world without circle. In a world where they (the mages) rule. On the other hand, the prison-cyrcle system proved to be effective for almost a thousand year. Yeah, It is not perfect, but I don't really care about connor or amelia or some right of annulment of if anders is sad. The important thing is that no crazy mage mess with reality during this time. The qunari method is effective too, but THAT is excessive. Maybe. So, I'll defend the status quo, as far as possibile, in every DA game. For example, Vivienne is my divine if someone comes up with a better idea to eradicate dangerous magic from the world without hurting anyone, I will listen to him with great interest Well, of course: Circles as education and magical research centres, libraies, where the mages able to master their abilities, and work in safe, but they would able to have family, and leave the Circle without permission, this would be more effective against the cases, as Connor's and Amelia's – effective anti-magical force (Mages with Seekers/Templars-kind non-mages together – for effectiveness and trust), these would be more effective against the rogue mages, and would be able to handle the first accidents too, in more humane way – registration (Phylactery-system). Would that have handled Connor better? Maybe, if the other reasons Isolde refused to have Connor properly educated were also handled. But as I've already said: Amelia probably would have failed in either system. Her parents kept her away from the Circle because they didn't think she could handle the Circles' tests. But unfortunately, those tests serve a purpose. If you can't survive them, it's because you are simultaneously dangerous and in danger. I predict that the College of Enchanters will continue those same tests. If they don't, I predict that that will cause problems. If those predictions are proven wrong, feel free to remind me that I made them next time I say something cynical about mage freedom. And are you really sure you want the mages to have families in the Circles? Do you really want non-magical children in the Circles, if they have to deal with a real catastrophe? I'm not arguing that the Circle prevents them. I'm arguing that it means fewer happen in population centers. That's rather an advantage considering what a particularly bad magical catastrophe can do.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 5, 2018 11:27:19 GMT
That is the overall problem. Magic is NOT the problem. The problem is: the one who wields the magic. Well, as pertains to most settings with magic or similar powers, maybe even 99.9% of them, I'd agree with you. But I think it's an oversimplification in this setting. This is one where misuse of magic isn't the only problem, and probably isn't even the worst problem. This is one where being a mage makes you more vulnerable to accidental possession by beings that at the low end of the spectrum can handle trained knights, and at the high end of the spectrum can handle cities. Are we sure magic itself is never the problem? If a solider runs out and stabs someone, would you blame the sword and then lock every person who knows how to use it just to keep people safe? I'd consider trying to solve the problem by keeping swords and such things off the streets. And in this case, that requires keeping the wielders off the streets, since you can't separate the magic from the mage as easily as you can separate a swordsman from his sword. But, and I can't emphasize this enough, that wouldn't be enough reason for me to consider locking up mages if it weren't for the problem I describe above. Look, I for one 100% agree with Anders. However, it was utter bullshit on Meredith's part to invoke the Right of Annulment when the person responsible was standing just a few inches from her. (Yep. Uncanny. Only time I agreed with Seabass). Well, yeah. As I pointed out on the last page, supporting the Right of Annulment in general doesn't predict whether or not you'll support it here, because this is not what it was meant for. When a murder was running loose through the streets of Kirkwall, the Viscount did not say, "Well, time to execute the whole city." Templars/Seekers claim they seek out mage problems and deal with them. So, they should do just that: deal with it. Not make a small problem into a mountain simply because they want to make their job easier. They protect innocents by killing innocents. Yeah. Makes complete sense. Right of Annulment should not exist in the first place. Its a piss poor excuse for The Chantry, Seekers and Templars to wipe out an entire Circle to be rid of there so-called "problem." If the phrase "make a small problem into a mountain" is at all applicable, then you're attacking a use of the Right of Annulment that I'm not seeking to defend. The Annulment is supposed to be the way the Templars and Seekers solve mountainous problems. That is the only use of it I'm seeking to defend, because that's the only remotely defensible use for it. And mountainous problems are entirely possible in this system of magic. If a murderer had gotten control of every single guard and every other other half-competent swordsman in the city by a combination of mind-control of living targets and necromancy on slain victims, and was using his new army as muscle in a plan to either mind-control or kill all of Kirkwall, the Viscount might have weighed the possibility of killing every single thing in the city to solve the problem. We can be entirely sure his neighbors would have. The reason the Right of Annulment exists is that there is a class of murderer in this setting that can create that class of problem, and it's generally kept in the Circles. The fact that it's abused to handle other situations doesn't erase that fact. Curious as to the total number of mages killed in the 20 Rights of Annulment (number according to Wikia) According to the Wikia one right was used to supposedly cover up a Knight Commanders murder of over hundred mages. In Dairsmuid the mages were with their families and were executed for that. Meredith went ahead and killed the Kirkwall mages who did nothing. I don't know seems at least some of the annulments are criminal, unjust and an abuse of power by the Chantry and/or knight Commander. Well, yeah. Some are. I conceded that in my first post on the subject. I don't think it erases the fact that there is a potential use for the RoA that is neither criminal nor an abuse of power. That use being when things have gone all the way to hell to the point that nothing less than the Annulment is likely to work. Maybe having the Right of Annulment, but making it much harder to actually receive permission for, and making abuses of the Right subject to extreme punishment. But even that may not be enough. It's already not easy to do. Under ordinary circumstances, the Knight-Commander has to receive permission from a civilian Grand Cleric who is probably far less willing to resort to extreme violence than a trained knight would be. If that means sending a messenger across the entirety of the country that Grand Cleric rules, and waiting for that messenger to return, that's what the Knight-Commander has to do. If the Grand Cleric says no, the KC's only recourse is to go over the Grand Cleric's head, and if that fails the Knight-Commander is out of luck. (If Meredith makes it seem easier than that, Word of Gaider is that it's because she used a loophole that lets Knight-Commanders use their own judgement if the Grand Cleric is dead and there's no obvious candidate to serve as acting Grand Cleric. Such as when the Chantry the Grand Cleric was sitting in gets scattered across an entire city.) As for harshly punishing abuse of the RoA, I can't imagine that's not already done. Word of Gaider is that Meredith would have been called to Val Royeaux to face a not-particularly-friendly talk with the Divine about her decision if she'd survived the results of it. And the guy who was responsible for the massacre that dustyelf describes was eventually picked up by the Seekers. It sounds like the authorities Templars are responsible to actually cared to make sure the RoA wasn't abused, back before everything got turned completely upside down. Anders is your alternative solution to the thought of demons possessing innocents? Well, of course: Circles as education and magical research centres, libraies, where the mages able to master their abilities, and work in safe, but they would able to have family, and leave the Circle without permission, this would be more effective against the cases, as Connor's and Amelia's – effective anti-magical force (Mages with Seekers/Templars-kind non-mages together – for effectiveness and trust), these would be more effective against the rogue mages, and would be able to handle the first accidents too, in more humane way – registration (Phylactery-system). Would that have handled Connor better? Maybe, if the other reasons Isolde refused to have Connor properly educated were also handled. But as I've already said: Amelia probably would have failed in either system. Her parents kept her away from the Circle because they didn't think she could handle the Circles' tests. But unfortunately, those tests serve a purpose. If you can't survive them, it's because you are simultaneously dangerous and in danger. I predict that the College of Enchanters will continue those same tests. If they don't, I predict that that will cause problems. If those predictions are proven wrong, feel free to remind me that I made them next time I say something cynical about mage freedom. And are you really sure you want the mages to have families in the Circles? Do you really want non-magical children in the Circles, if they have to deal with a real catastrophe?I'm not arguing that the Circle prevents them. I'm arguing that it means fewer happen in population centers. That's rather an advantage considering what a particularly bad magical catastrophe can do. 1. You can't avoid the catastrophes with inhumane half-"solutions". Accidents always will happen – as happened many. 2. The "Right" of the Annulment is just cruel, without any benefit. Paranoid and inhumane. 3. Yes. Anders. More and more I hear this opinion, that the Annulment is a solution, my opinion strengthened: Anders is right. He's not a solution against the possession. Anders is the answer to the institutionalized paranoia. 4. Yes. The education-Circle would the absolute solution, the ONLY solution. And yes, it would solve the cases, like Connor and Amelia. Amelia's parents feared the Circle's cruelty, and they were right. 5. Your worry about the mages' children is very cute (and very paranoid...). Yes, I really think, they able to raise children. But you're right, the Circle is dangerous to the children: Dairsmuid was annuled because the mages lived in family there. NOT the abominations killed the children... not THAT abominations. The Seekers where the real abominations, who killed the children.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Apr 20, 2024 10:24:31 GMT
30,241
Hanako Ikezawa
22,352
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 5, 2018 17:26:09 GMT
Anders is the answer to the institutionalized paranoia. Can't argue with that. Proving every horror story told about mages as correct is an answer to paranoia since at that point it is no longer paranoia and the actions to stop it are now justified. Anders was a huge help to the anti-mage crowd.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Apr 19, 2024 19:17:54 GMT
18,241
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on May 5, 2018 17:34:19 GMT
Anders is the answer to the institutionalized paranoia. Can't argue with that. Proving every horror story told about mages as correct is an answer to paranoia since at that point it is no longer paranoia and the actions to stop it are now justified. Anders was a huge help to the anti-mage crowd. Yes. After this, the revolution started, the mages were not "fashionable accessories" anymore, but Vivienne, a mage, who lamented these "good old times" – became a Divine-candidate. Thanks to Anders and Fiona!
|
|