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I never knew that love had a sound until i heard you laugh.
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Post by Patricia on Oct 17, 2016 8:46:50 GMT
For me personally boxing is not a sport that i like very much. Sorry that i say this i will make no friends by saying this to some people here on this forum. But you have two guys who have no quarrel with each other and they try to knock each others lights out by knock out. At least that's what it's all about right ??? So yeah why oh why would someone do that to someone else i just cannot understand that. Yeah it a gruelling, harsh sport, there's no doubt about that but you fail to see the many positives the sport of boxing brings. A great deal of fighters come from impoverished back grounds with very little chance to improve their living conditions. In all likelihood many fighters would turn to crime if they were not boxers. Boxing instil's them with focus and discipline and provides them with a means to earn an honest living. Here is a perfect example: www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2016/03/28/should-we-ban-boxing-absolutely-not/Im interested to know if you feel this way about other combat sports or just boxing? No other combat sports as well but boxing is my number one. And i know there are even worse combat sports out there but i have never seen one and i never will. But when i look at boxing for example if i look at Mohammed Ali the way he talks from all the hits on his head over all those years in the ring. Then i wonder why would you do that to yourself. Yes maybe for a better future the way you describe boxers who have no future but that's just a handful most boxers are not poor. And there are also boxers who die in the ring i wonder what you would call a boxer who killed another boxer. And there are actually quite a few boxers who died in the ring over the years. No sorry it's a cruel sport but that's the way i see it.
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Post by Kenny Bania on Oct 17, 2016 14:22:58 GMT
No other combat sports as well but boxing is my number one. And i know there are even worse combat sports out there but i have never seen one and i never will. But when i look at boxing for example if i look at Mohammed Ali the way he talks from all the hits on his head over all those years in the ring. Then i wonder why would you do that to yourself. Yes maybe for a better future the way you describe boxers who have no future but that's just a handful most boxers are not poor. And there are also boxers who die in the ring i wonder what you would call a boxer who killed another boxer. And there are actually quite a few boxers who died in the ring over the years. No sorry it's a cruel sport but that's the way i see it. How do you feel about horse riding?
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N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,012 Likes: 35,796
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314
0
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15,012
August 2016
beerfish
https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
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Post by Beerfish on Oct 17, 2016 14:23:56 GMT
To be honest if there is a sport that should be banned for med reason Boxing would be it and I say this as a boxing fan, of the past anyways.
As for matches.
Ron Lyle vs Ernie Shavers.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
XBL Gamertag: ALTBOULI
PSN: ALTBOULI
Posts: 974 Likes: 2,445
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Post by ALTBOULI on Oct 17, 2016 16:02:22 GMT
Yeah it a gruelling, harsh sport, there's no doubt about that but you fail to see the many positives the sport of boxing brings. A great deal of fighters come from impoverished back grounds with very little chance to improve their living conditions. In all likelihood many fighters would turn to crime if they were not boxers. Boxing instil's them with focus and discipline and provides them with a means to earn an honest living. Here is a perfect example: www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2016/03/28/should-we-ban-boxing-absolutely-not/Im interested to know if you feel this way about other combat sports or just boxing? No other combat sports as well but boxing is my number one. And i know there are even worse combat sports out there but i have never seen one and i never will. But when i look at boxing for example if i look at Mohammed Ali the way he talks from all the hits on his head over all those years in the ring. Then i wonder why would you do that to yourself. Yes maybe for a better future the way you describe boxers who have no future but that's just a handful most boxers are not poor. And there are also boxers who die in the ring i wonder what you would call a boxer who killed another boxer. And there are actually quite a few boxers who died in the ring over the years. No sorry it's a cruel sport but that's the way i see it. Ali was an inspiration and hero to millions, he directly influenced many other notable boxers to take up boxing rather than turn to a life of crime. How about the fact that he was a big factor in helping to push the civil rights movement? This wouldnt have been possible for him without boxing. Where you choose to see the negatives I see the positives. Ali's greatest mistake in the sport was that he didnt know when to quit. Very few will leave the sport in as bad condition as Ali. And there are more injuries in Hockey, football and Rugby. As the article says there are more fatalities in horseriding and scuba-diving than boxing
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
XBL Gamertag: ALTBOULI
PSN: ALTBOULI
Posts: 974 Likes: 2,445
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Post by ALTBOULI on Oct 17, 2016 16:06:00 GMT
To be honest if there is a sport that should be banned for med reason Boxing would be it and I say this as a boxing fan, of the past anyways. As for matches. Ron Lyle vs Ernie Shavers. If you want to use medical reasons as an excuse then I suggest you look into banning Football, Hockey and Rugby first.
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N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,012 Likes: 35,796
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15,012
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https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on Oct 17, 2016 16:23:05 GMT
To be honest if there is a sport that should be banned for med reason Boxing would be it and I say this as a boxing fan, of the past anyways. As for matches. Ron Lyle vs Ernie Shavers. If you want to use medical reasons as an excuse then I suggest you look into banning Football, Hockey and Rugby first. No those games all have big safety issues but boxing is a sport where you are trying to knock people out each and every match with your gloved fists. If you were to make a list of all sports to ban you could certainly make a long one, boxing would be at the top.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
XBL Gamertag: ALTBOULI
PSN: ALTBOULI
Posts: 974 Likes: 2,445
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Post by ALTBOULI on Oct 17, 2016 16:36:29 GMT
If you want to use medical reasons as an excuse then I suggest you look into banning Football, Hockey and Rugby first. No those games all have big safety issues but boxing is a sport where you are trying to knock people out each and every match with your gloved fists. If you were to make a list of all sports to ban you could certainly make a long one, boxing would be at the top. Why would boxing be top of the list exactly? Why not UFC, K1 or any other combat/mixed martial arts sports? UFC fighters wear smaller gloves with much less padding, can use their elbows and legs and can use various forms of submissions including around the joints and neck. Do you honestly think that its a safer sport than boxing?
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Winston/Reinhardt Main
PSN: Rogue_276
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Post by Duelist on Nov 16, 2016 7:58:41 GMT
Thread revival for the big one...
Predictions anyone?
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Kenny Bania
These pretzels are making me thirsty!!!
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Post by Kenny Bania on Nov 16, 2016 8:23:32 GMT
Thread revival for the big one... Predictions anyone? Looking forward to this one. If I had to pick, it'd be Ward by decision. The problem is I think he's slipped the last few years, and he hasn't really been tested in quite a while. That makes it difficult to judge what level he's at.
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Post by Duelist on Nov 16, 2016 8:34:26 GMT
Thread revival for the big one... Predictions anyone? Looking forward to this one. If I had to pick, it'd be Ward by decision. The problem is I think he's slipped the last few years, and he hasn't really been tested in quite a while. That makes it difficult to judge what level he's at. I'm slightly favouring Ward by a close decision as well but won't be surprised if Kovalev wins. I just think Ward's savvy and experience are going to carry the day.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Nov 16, 2016 16:13:42 GMT
Incoming diatribe! I stopped watching boxing quite a few years ago, although I've occasionally tuned in to certain fights. I was pretty big fan when I was younger, but I was one of those people caught up in the disillusionment era as a lot of the corruption scandals unfolded throughout the nineties. I never really came back to it after things settled somewhat (possibly because by then I had become caught up in the rise of MMA, although being a fan of one doesn't preclude being a fan of the other.) But there's a lingering element of the corruption that is just a strong today as ever, which is the illusion that boxing rules and regulations exist to protect the safety of the boxers. It still bothers me because several of the rules directly impair the health of boxers, and the corruption stems from the continued suppression of CTE evidence and research. It's mainly about the gloves. Most people believe that the gloves exist to protect the fighter from brain damage, but that actually isn't true. More importantly, the gloves are actually the cause of most of the brain damage. CTE research has shown that the principal causes are not single, large, consciousness-impairing blows (although those are hardly good for you, which I'm sure all of us would agree to.) CTE is mostly caused by small, repeated blows. Each one impacts the lining protecting the brain, and over time, the accumulation is permanent and irreversible. You can recover from a concussion caused by a knockout blow, but you can't recover from the small micro-tears and lesions built up over repeated smaller blows. In some ways, the evidence has been with us all along, but the rise of MMA has actually given us a set of case studies that we can directly compare to each other. Boxing uses large padded gloves, while MMA is very close to bare-knuckle boxing (but not quite.) The best example of the long-term effects of boxing gloves can bee seen in a documentary that doesn't actually examine the issue at all. It's called "Fighting Ali" (2009) and it is a series of interviews with Mohammed Ali's opponents. It is a fascinating documentary, and I'd highly recommend it to boxing fans for that reason, alone. Several of the fighters interviewed require subtitles to be fully understood, because of the brain damage they've received. It has been known for some time that those symptoms are common in boxers whose careers approach fifteen years or more (including Ali himself - though it's impossible to say which symptoms are Parkinson's and which are CTE, given their similarities.) By contrast, we are now in an era where MMA fighters with careers of fifteen or more years exist in great numbers. It would be silly to try and list or compare all the examples, but suffice it to say that they don't suffer from the same CTE-related issues (or, more accurately, they suffer from them to a much smaller degree.) Long-time vets of MMA like Chuck Liddel or Randy Couture, despite being knocked out several times each, have little evidence of CTE, and appear to retain their clarity and stability of mind very well (although there could obviously be hidden health risks that are merely less obvious - blows to the head are a health risk any way you cut it.) The real reasons for the boxing gloves aren't to protect the fighters, at all. They are to extend the length of the fight, to avoid having fights stopped due to broken hands, and to minimize the likelihood of cuts or bleeding. A broken hand or bleeding from a minor cut do not represent a long-term health risk to the fighter. A broken hand heals. A cut heals. In fact, I hate that bleeding is used as a reason to stop boxing matches, at all. Unless the guy's face is hanging off, he'll probably be fine, as long as the cut isn't impairing his vision (or occurs directly to the eye.) It's usually not a legit reason to stop a fight, it's only to create the illusion that it's a "bloodless gentleman's sport," which is ridiculous because it's people punching each other. It is what it is, the illusion is unnecessary, especially in an era where the much bloodier MMA matches are rapidly increasing in popularity while boxing is decreasing in popularity - and quite precipitously since the retirement of Floyd Mayweather (and the "retirement" of Manny Paqiauo.) I think promoters need to re-think boxing, and they need to start by putting the boxers' safety first, which means getting rid of the gloves. Joe Rogan believes both sports should disallow gloves and taping entirely. In his view, this would enhance the strategic advantage of elusive fighters, while the risk of breaking one's hand will inherently reduce brain damage by lowering the number of hard punches thrown. It's similar to the comparison between Rugby and American Football: rugby has no safety equipment, and it has a much lower rate of serious injury. Football equipment doesn't protect the players - it turns them into a metal-shorn missile that can ram into a person with no risk to their own safety. If you have no equipment on, you have to protect yourself by reigning your blow in - thus protecting your opponent indirectly by reducing the force of the blow. They need to adopt the MMA regulations regarding cuts, so that fights end properly. No one likes to see a great fight end prematurely and anti-climactically just because someone got a booboo that'll heal completely in a week. These people are professional fighters, they can handle it. If the audience can't handle a little blood, well... I think the right result matters more than the audience's comfort. Promoters have put their own financial interests ahead of the sport for a century. Changing the rules and regulations to protect the fighters would probably be good for business. There would likely be more exciting finishes and fewer decisions. I believe both sports are better when the result isn't left in the hands of judges who may well be corrupt or incompetent (or both.) Money talks, and I rarely trust sports with "judging." It would also be nice to end the practice of padding fighters' resumes. I would much rather see the best fight the best most of the time, instead of the rare occasions where the payout compels the promoters to risk their fighters' precious win-loss record. That would likely expand the ability to promote more fighters, by doing away with the idea that someone with more than one or two losses on their record is somehow "less great." Muhammed Ali's record has a lot more losses than most recognized greats, but everyone knows that it's because he never shied away from fighting the best there was out there (and of course because he didn't retire when he should have.) tldr: Boxing needs to get rid of the gloves, stop ending fight because of minor cuts, and start promoting the idea of the best fighters fighting the best fighters consistently. Oh, and just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, I think boxing is a great sport. I hope no one thinks that I'm criticizing the boxers or the sport itself. I'm criticizing the promoters and regulators for failing to do right by the sport and the athletes.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Nov 16, 2016 16:29:15 GMT
No those games all have big safety issues but boxing is a sport where you are trying to knock people out each and every match with your gloved fists. If you were to make a list of all sports to ban you could certainly make a long one, boxing would be at the top. Why would boxing be top of the list exactly? Why not UFC, K1 or any other combat/mixed martial arts sports? UFC fighters wear smaller gloves with much less padding, can use their elbows and legs and can use various forms of submissions including around the joints and neck. Do you honestly think that its a safer sport than boxing? I read this after my giant diatribe, so I felt like mentioning my previous post wasn't actually a response to this. From the point of view of most injuries, you would be absolutely correct. Arms have been broken, legs have been broken - Anderson Silva, arguably the best PfP fighter in combat sports, was so traumatized by breaking his leg during a kick that he was afraid of training for almost a year. Even more significant are injuries during training, which is where most MMA injuries happen. Where MMA will have more injuries, the severity of those injuries in the long term is much smaller than the ones in boxing. I won't retread my over-long post, but cuts and broken bones heal pretty quickly, while brain damage is, at this stage of medicine, permanent, with limited treatment options. But I don't think the sport needs to be banned, I believe they need to re-think the use of the gloves, and be less afraid of boxing "looking brutal." It is better to look brutal, but be safer, than to look safer, but cause signifcantly more permanent brain damage.
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N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
Origin: ALTBOULI313
XBL Gamertag: ALTBOULI
PSN: ALTBOULI
Posts: 974 Likes: 2,445
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Post by ALTBOULI on Nov 16, 2016 16:37:25 GMT
Thread revival for the big one... Predictions anyone? Yes! Really looking forward to this one. Prediction: Ward by UD or late stoppage
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These pretzels are making me thirsty!!!
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b00g13man
Mass Effect Trilogy, Jade Empire
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Post by Kenny Bania on Nov 16, 2016 16:53:34 GMT
Incoming diatribe! I stopped watching boxing quite a few years ago, although I've occasionally tuned in to certain fights. I was pretty big fan when I was younger, but I was one of those people caught up in the disillusionment era as a lot of the corruption scandals unfolded throughout the nineties. I never really came back to it after things settled somewhat (possibly because by then I had become caught up in the rise of MMA, although being a fan of one doesn't preclude being a fan of the other.) But there's a lingering element of the corruption that is just a strong today as ever, which is the illusion that boxing rules and regulations exist to protect the safety of the boxers. It still bothers me because several of the rules directly impair the health of boxers, and the corruption stems from the continued suppression of CTE evidence and research. It's mainly about the gloves. Most people believe that the gloves exist to protect the fighter from brain damage, but that actually isn't true. More importantly, the gloves are actually the cause of most of the brain damage. CTE research has shown that the principal causes are not single, large, consciousness-impairing blows (although those are hardly good for you, which I'm sure all of us would agree to.) CTE is mostly caused by small, repeated blows. Each one impacts the lining protecting the brain, and over time, the accumulation is permanent and irreversible. You can recover from a concussion caused by a knockout blow, but you can't recover from the small micro-tears and lesions built up over repeated smaller blows. In some ways, the evidence has been with us all along, but the rise of MMA has actually given us a set of case studies that we can directly compare to each other. Boxing uses large padded gloves, while MMA is very close to bare-knuckle boxing (but not quite.) The best example of the long-term effects of boxing gloves can bee seen in a documentary that doesn't actually examine the issue at all. It's called "Fighting Ali" (2009) and it is a series of interviews with Mohammed Ali's opponents. It is a fascinating documentary, and I'd highly recommend it to boxing fans for that reason, alone. Several of the fighters interviewed require subtitles to be fully understood, because of the brain damage they've received. It has been known for some time that those symptoms are common in boxers whose careers approach fifteen years or more (including Ali himself - though it's impossible to say which symptoms are Parkinson's and which are CTE, given their similarities.) By contrast, we are now in an era where MMA fighters with careers of fifteen or more years exist in great numbers. It would be silly to try and list or compare all the examples, but suffice it to say that they don't suffer from the same CTE-related issues (or, more accurately, they suffer from them to a much smaller degree.) Long-time vets of MMA like Chuck Liddel or Randy Couture, despite being knocked out several times each, have little evidence of CTE, and appear to retain their clarity and stability of mind very well (although there could obviously be hidden health risks that are merely less obvious - blows to the head are a health risk any way you cut it.) The real reasons for the boxing gloves aren't to protect the fighters, at all. They are to extend the length of the fight, to avoid having fights stopped due to broken hands, and to minimize the likelihood of cuts or bleeding. A broken hand or a cut do not represent a health risk to the fighter. A broken hand heals. A cut heals. In fact, I hate that cuts are used to stop boxing matches, at all. Unless half the guy's face is hanging off, he'll be fine. It's not a legit reason to stop a fight, it's only to create the illusion that it's a "bloodless gentleman's sport," which is ridiculous because it's people punching each other. It is what it is, the illusion is unnecessary, especially in an era where the much bloodier MMA matches are rapidly increasing in popularity while boxing is decreasing in popularity - and quite precipitously since the retirement of Floyd Mayweather (and the "retirement" of Manny Paqiauo.) I think promoters need to re-think boxing, and they need to start by putting the boxers' safety first, which means getting rid of the gloves. Joe Rogan believes both sports should disallow gloves and taping entirely. In his view, this would enhance the strategic advantage of elusive fighters, while the risk of breaking one's hand will inherently reduce brain damage by lowering the number of hard punches thrown. It's similar to the comparison between Rugby and American Football: rugby has no safety equipment, and it has a much lower rate of serious injury. Football equipment doesn't protect the players - it turns them into a metal-shorn missile that can ram into a person with no risk to their own safety. If you have no equipment on, you have to protect yourself by reigning your blow in - thus protecting your opponent indirectly by reducing the force of the blow. They need to adopt the MMA regulations regarding cuts, so that fights end properly. No one likes to see a great fight end prematurely and anti-climactically just because someone got a booboo that'll heal completely in a week. These people are professional fighters, they can handle it. If the audience can't handle a little blood, well... I think the right result matters more than the audience's comfort. Promoters have put their own financial interests ahead of the sport for a century. Changing the rules and regulations to protect the fighters would probably be good for business. There would likely be more exciting finishes and fewer decisions. I believe both sports are better when the result isn't left in the hands of judges who may well be corrupt or incompetent (or both.) Money talks, and I rarely trust sports with "judging." It would also be nice to end the practice of padding fighters' resumes. I would much rather see the best fight the best most of the time, instead of the rare occasions where the payout compels the promoters to risk their fighters' precious win-loss record. That would likely expand the ability to promote more fighters, by doing away with the idea that someone with more than one or two losses on their record is somehow "less great." Muhammed Ali's record has a lot more losses than most recognized greats, but everyone knows that it's because he never shied away from fighting the best there was out there (and of course because he didn't retire when he should have.) tldr: Boxing needs to get rid of the gloves, stop ending fight because of minor cuts, and start promoting the idea of the best fighters fighting the best fighters consistently. Oh, and just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, I think boxing is a great sport. I hope no one thinks that I'm criticizing the boxers or the sport itself. I'm criticizing the promoters and regulators for failing to do right by the sport and the athletes. The tl;dr was tl. dr
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Nov 16, 2016 16:55:07 GMT
Good god, man! Why would you quote that monstrosity!
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Post by Hier0phant on Nov 16, 2016 16:57:56 GMT
I didn't recognize him at first when i bumped into Miller and his mom the other day in downtown Brooklyn, but he's a chill dude. Much respect.
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Winston/Reinhardt Main
PSN: Rogue_276
Posts: 796 Likes: 958
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Post by Duelist on Nov 16, 2016 20:48:31 GMT
It's mainly about the gloves. Most people believe that the gloves exist to protect the fighter from brain damage, but that actually isn't true. More importantly, the gloves are actually the cause of most of the brain damage. CTE research has shown that the principal causes are not single, large, consciousness-impairing blows (although those are hardly good for you, which I'm sure all of us would agree to.) CTE is mostly caused by small, repeated blows. Each one impacts the lining protecting the brain, and over time, the accumulation is permanent and irreversible. You can recover from a concussion caused by a knockout blow, but you can't recover from the small micro-tears and lesions built up over repeated smaller blows. In some ways, the evidence has been with us all along, but the rise of MMA has actually given us a set of case studies that we can directly compare to each other. Boxing uses large padded gloves, while MMA is very close to bare-knuckle boxing (but not quite.) The best example of the long-term effects of boxing gloves can bee seen in a documentary that doesn't actually examine the issue at all. It's called "Fighting Ali" (2009) and it is a series of interviews with Mohammed Ali's opponents. It is a fascinating documentary, and I'd highly recommend it to boxing fans for that reason, alone. Several of the fighters interviewed require subtitles to be fully understood, because of the brain damage they've received. It has been known for some time that those symptoms are common in boxers whose careers approach fifteen years or more (including Ali himself - though it's impossible to say which symptoms are Parkinson's and which are CTE, given their similarities.) By contrast, we are now in an era where MMA fighters with careers of fifteen or more years exist in great numbers. It would be silly to try and list or compare all the examples, but suffice it to say that they don't suffer from the same CTE-related issues (or, more accurately, they suffer from them to a much smaller degree.) Long-time vets of MMA like Chuck Liddel or Randy Couture, despite being knocked out several times each, have little evidence of CTE, and appear to retain their clarity and stability of mind very well (although there could obviously be hidden health risks that are merely less obvious - blows to the head are a health risk any way you cut it.) And for every Randy Couture and Chuck Liddell there is a Joe Riggs or Ken Shamrock. Diego Sanchez is clearly punch drunk and still fighting to this day. Broken hands never heal properly. Prince Naseem retired in his physical prime because his hands were falling apart, Floyd Mayweather's notoriously defensive style was borne largely out of the fact that his hands are so fragile. Even in MMA, Fedor Emelianenko postponed a great many fights because of his hands. Cuts are rarely the cause for a stoppage and even then it's only because they're obstructing vision. While cuts don't represent a long term health risk, they do prevent a fighter from taking part in one of the most vital parts of their training: sparring. If the history of boxing is anything to go by, elusiveness isn't emphasised with smaller gloves at all, the "grey areas" (grappling, headbutting etc.) are. Off the top of my head, Jack Johnson made his career out of tying guys up. Sandy Saddler gave the great Willy Pep hell by pushing him onto the ropes or into corners. Again, boxing bouts are rarely stopped on cuts and only when a fighter's vision is impaired. Protect the fighters how? While I'm a fan of a great knockout, one would be remiss to ignore the many great fights that went to a decision. The legendary Ward-Gatti trilogy for instance was decided by three gruelling, 12 round decisions and no-one would call those fights boring. Sloppy yes, boring no. In more recent times, there was Mark Hunt's epic brawl with Bigfoot Silva. So long as money is on the line, fighters who are capable of drawing a crowd will always be top priority. It's why a rematch against Nate Diaz was offered to Conor McGregor instead of the far more dangerous but much less likely to be seen fight against Frankie Edgar. It's why the unbelievably talented but often boring Guillermo Rigondeaux is avoided like the plague. This is true although Ken Norton might have something to say about Ali shying away from fights. I don't think you're criticising boxing because you dislike it when as a fan and amateur boxer myself, I and many others have levelled the same criticisms at boxing. At the end of the day, I think a lot of the problems with boxing are attributable to the fact that it's a largely self funded, poor man's sport. Those who make it big develop a work ethic and drive that most don't have but they have to navigate a minefield of shady promoters, crappy pay and the day to day grind of life to get there which most don't.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Nov 17, 2016 0:03:37 GMT
There are exceptions to everything, and no rule of thumb is ever absolute, but the trends have been pretty consistent.
When it comes to cuts, though, boxing ends fights far more often because of it and for far less than MMA does - at least, that was the case when I was still watching regularly. Perhaps in the last 15 years they've trended towards letting the fight continue, but I don't think I can remember a single boxing match where a doctor examined a fighter for a second time and still allowed the fight to continue. In MMA, I struggle to recall any examples of fights ending due to cuts, and mainly think of a few involving Kenny Florian (which was kind of his jam.)
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Post by Kenny Bania on Nov 17, 2016 9:36:59 GMT
There are exceptions to everything, and no rule of thumb is ever absolute, but the trends have been pretty consistent. When it comes to cuts, though, boxing ends fights far more often because of it and for far less than MMA does - at least, that was the case when I was still watching regularly. Perhaps in the last 15 years they've trended towards letting the fight continue, but I don't think I can remember a single boxing match where a doctor examined a fighter for a second time and still allowed the fight to continue. In MMA, I struggle to recall any examples of fights ending due to cuts, and mainly think of a few involving Kenny Florian (which was kind of his jam.) Where are all these fights getting stopped for minor cuts? I watch a hell of a lot of boxing, and can't say it's a trend.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Nov 17, 2016 13:29:18 GMT
There are exceptions to everything, and no rule of thumb is ever absolute, but the trends have been pretty consistent. When it comes to cuts, though, boxing ends fights far more often because of it and for far less than MMA does - at least, that was the case when I was still watching regularly. Perhaps in the last 15 years they've trended towards letting the fight continue, but I don't think I can remember a single boxing match where a doctor examined a fighter for a second time and still allowed the fight to continue. In MMA, I struggle to recall any examples of fights ending due to cuts, and mainly think of a few involving Kenny Florian (which was kind of his jam.) Where are all these fights getting stopped for minor cuts? I watch a hell of a lot of boxing, and can't say it's a trend. The first line wasn't related to the second paragraph, it was just a general response unrelated to cuts. I believe there has been misinterpretation where I'm being seen as claiming this happens all the time, but I'm not. Cuts end more fights in boxing, historically when compared to MMA. I prefer the way MMA rules handle cuts with regards to ending matches. MMA rules don't lead to matches ending in Technical Decisions, something I've seen several times in boxing, and I don't like those kinds of results. I don't want a technicality to decide a match when someone is bleeding. I'm more okay with TKO cut decisions, as at least those theoretically favour the boxer doing more damage, but there are exceptions, and those are largely avoided in MMA as well. MMA has a separate result problem, which is that decisions in MMA are often very bad. In some ways, that's arguably worse, but my preference for fights ending decisively applies equally to both sports to avoid potential issues in judging. But what I'm saying is that the rules can be written in a way that can take something that may not happen a lot, but does periodically, and use a model that has consistently shown it protects the health of the fighters without nearly as many fights stopped due to cuts. In MMA they allow elbows and knees, and they have much smaller gloves, which creates far more cuts, and cuts of far greater severity than boxing. But they still have the rules set up to allow most fights to end without the cuts ultimately being a factor in who wins. I prefer that system, and I would like boxing to move in that direction. Perhaps it already has in the last fifteen to twenty years, and I haven't noticed the improvement because I haven't been watching. If that's the case, then my point is anachronistic, and I would say that's good.
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Post by Kenny Bania on Nov 17, 2016 13:43:10 GMT
Where are all these fights getting stopped for minor cuts? I watch a hell of a lot of boxing, and can't say it's a trend. The first line wasn't related to the second paragraph, it was just a general response unrelated to cuts. I believe there has been misinterpretation where I'm being seen as claiming this happens all the time, but I'm not. Cuts end more fights in boxing, historically when compared to MMA. I prefer the way MMA rules handle cuts with regards to ending matches. MMA rules don't lead to matches ending in Technical Decisions, something I've seen several times in boxing, and I don't like those kinds of results. I don't want a technicality to decide a match when someone is bleeding. I'm more okay with TKO cut decisions, as at least those theoretically favour the boxer doing more damage, but there are exceptions, and those are largely avoided in MMA as well. MMA has a separate result problem, which is that decisions in MMA are often very bad. In some ways, that's arguably worse, but my preference for fights ending decisively applies equally to both sports to avoid potential issues in judging. But what I'm saying is that the rules can be written in a way that can take something that may not happen a lot, but does periodically, and use a model that has consistently shown it protects the health of the fighters without nearly as many fights stopped due to cuts. In MMA they allow elbows and knees, and they have much smaller gloves, which creates far more cuts, and cuts of far greater severity than boxing. But they still have the rules set up to allow most fights to end without the cuts ultimately being a factor in who wins. I prefer that system, and I would like boxing to move in that direction. Perhaps it already has in the last fifteen to twenty years, and I haven't noticed the improvement because I haven't been watching. If that's the case, then my point is anachronistic, and I would say that's good. Not really sure I get your point tbh. I was gonna type an essay, but can't be bothered.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Nov 17, 2016 14:28:25 GMT
Screw it, let's decide this in the ring! Boxing rules, or MMA?
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Nov 17, 2016 15:06:55 GMT
For the record, I'm a protonweight.
Or is it electronweight? I can never remember whether or not I'm positively-charged.
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Nov 17, 2016 15:42:28 GMT
Connor McGregor wants 100 million to fight Floyd MayweatherSure, Connor, it's not like you have two belts to defend, or anything! I know why Connor's playing it up, since it impacts his future paychecks, but I don't know why Mayweather's going back-and-forth with him, since he really doesn't have anything to gain, unless he really wants another paycheck. He did get into it with Paqiao after Manny's recent fight, briefly sparking rumours of a rematch, so maybe he feels like he wants another win, I dunno. Anyway, a boxing match between them is largely pointless, as it would be an easy decision victory for Floyd, and an MMA match would be a waste of time, as it would be probably be stopped within the first three minutes, if past such matches are any indication (using CM Punk and James Toney as my examples.) On the other hand, it could be the biggest PPV draw in history. I mean, I wouldn't pay for it, but I know a lot of people would!
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Post by ALTBOULI on Nov 17, 2016 18:50:42 GMT
Connor McGregor wants 100 million to fight Floyd MayweatherSure, Connor, it's not like you have two belts to defend, or anything! I know why Connor's playing it up, since it impacts his future paychecks, but I don't know why Mayweather's going back-and-forth with him, since he really doesn't have anything to gain, unless he really wants another paycheck. He did get into it with Paqiao after Manny's recent fight, briefly sparking rumours of a rematch, so maybe he feels like he wants another win, I dunno. Anyway, a boxing match between them is largely pointless, as it would be an easy decision victory for Floyd, and an MMA match would be a waste of time, as it would be probably be stopped within the first three minutes, if past such matches are any indication (using CM Punk and James Toney as my examples.)On the other hand, it could be the biggest PPV draw in history. I mean, I wouldn't pay for it, but I know a lot of people would! I didnt really get your point with the other posts but as for the bit in bold, I disagree. Mayweather would KO McGregor in a boxing match, no sweat. And Mayweather wouldnt agree to anything other than a boxing match. As for youre example, James Toney was well past it when he got into that UFC fight. He is really punch-drunk and tbh should not have been allowed in the octagon let alone a boxing ring. A better example of a boxer transitioning to mixed martial arts would be Holly Holm. Best known as a boxer, had a few kickboxing matches then went into MMA and became a world champion
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