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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 13, 2020 10:16:33 GMT
That moment you realize Varric is the true protagonist of Dragon Age... That is part of my problem with Varric appearing so many times in the games and other media. If we are having a different PC every game, we really should not have a companion who starts being identified with the series more than the main PC, so they start being seen as the iconic figure in it. There is even the self promotion there. "I've seen and done these things with my friends." Not the previous heroes did these things with me tagging along (or not as the case may be). That was never a danger with Mass Effect and returning characters because we always had Shepard as well but with Dragon Age it is different. A carry over from one game to another to provide a link with the previous story is okay but using the same character for 3 games, in comics and books, is too much. (Whilst Leliana was in DA2 it was only as a small cameo). Particularly when the previous PC has even more reason to be involved than he does and Varric is not someone Solas would be unfamiliar with. I thought the whole idea was the setting was the most important element of the series, not Varric.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 13, 2020 10:30:40 GMT
While Morrigan technically did fullfill that role in the last game considering she read the outro slides it kind of is a little bit of a stretch still considering there was no indication she was recording events or was interested in 'writing'. She also introduced the first ever teaser trailer and even appeared in it with the challenge to the player "will you stand against the darkness or lead this world to its bitter end". So having her do the epilogue slides tied in with that. Why does anyone need to "write" about it? Was anybody chronicling what our Warden did in the Blight? Nope. Did anyone voice over the epilogue slides. Nope. Would it have been better if one of the characters had? I don't think so. So we don't need a narrator. If you want a narrator then why make it a companion? Let's face it, new players aren't going to know who Varric is anyway. So if you want an in world narrator, how about Genitivi, who is an actual in world historian, not a renowned writer of fiction. To be honest I think it is a handover from the DG era, because in his comics they always have an in world narrator, who is essentially telling the story from their PoV. It is not the only way to tell a story.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 13, 2020 10:33:15 GMT
I really don't understand why people feel a need to take a hard stance right now on whether or not a character should be included (other than boredom...which I guess answers my question as to 'why'). Just wait and see how it plays out. We can always eviscerate Bioware and the writers after we have seen what they decide to do with the character Why? You can´t be serious. The answer is very simple why most people don´t want Varric as a major character in DA 4. He has been this for two games plus all the DLCs. I don´t hate Varric. The truth is i still love this character but its more than enough. Don´t forget he had already a good ending as Kirkwall Vicomte. But No they brought him back for what? That he will be killed? Sorry but no thanks.
Edit: Also i would hate the idea to level him again.
Also the main problem with returning characters is that you can´t bring all back. Varric been in DA 4 means that someone less doesn´t get the screentime. If Varric is even a DA 4 companion well its impossible that Harding will be a companion.
That isn't the right place, but no one of DAI returning will be a companion. New people !!!!!!
for the first. 1. Varric as Vicomte, he get bored. 2. He need a better wife. Bianca is awful. 3. I see the story moves towards him. And yes you maybe have enough of him other as well, and i understand you.
But for me, who only played DA2 a few minutes, i haven't enough. I think let's Bioware decide.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 13, 2020 10:39:10 GMT
If BioWare keeps adding Varric as a companion but follow the stupid new PC every game rule, they’re even dumber than people thought.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Dec 13, 2020 14:32:45 GMT
So if you want an in world narrator, how about Genitivi, who is an actual in world historian, not a renowned writer of fiction. Since when is Genitivi not a fiction writer?
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Post by fluffysmom on Dec 13, 2020 14:48:32 GMT
So if you want an in world narrator, how about Genitivi, who is an actual in world historian, not a renowned writer of fiction. Since when is Genitivi not a fiction writer? Didn’t someone mention that he’s actually the one writing the Randy Dowager reviews? I’ll accept him as narrator only if he covers the events in the same manner.
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Post by ClarkKent on Dec 13, 2020 14:49:58 GMT
I've never been a big fan of Varric. He was always Dragon Age's poor answer to Garrus.
He didn't need to be in Inquisition, and him being in three games is now beyond overkill.
On the subject of companions, it's actually hilarious to me that we spent half a game in Orlais and we didn't get one Orlesian companion. It just shows how poorly thought through Orlais was in Inquisition.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 13, 2020 15:02:53 GMT
I'd rather he not be there. In fact, I'd prefer as clean a break as possible, with a minimum of returning characters. They never bring back the ones I would actually be interested to see, so I don't care.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 13, 2020 15:10:37 GMT
That moment you realize Varric is the true protagonist of Dragon Age... That is part of my problem with Varric appearing so many times in the games and other media. If we are having a different PC every game, we really should not have a companion who starts being identified with the series more than the main PC, so they start being seen as the iconic figure in it. ... But the PC cannot and could never be an "iconic figure" of the series, because even from the very first game, you designed them yourself. To be an "icon", you have to be immediately and widely recognizable, which the PC can never be, unless BioWare establishes a default appearance, which I hope they never do. The only way to escape the "problem" (if it is a problem) of other characters becoming more recognizable than the PC is to never have any of them ever re-appear at all, and we're three games (not counting DLC), 5(+?) novels, several comic book series, 1 film and dozens of other products too late to be worrying about that now.
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Post by Gwydden on Dec 13, 2020 15:19:45 GMT
I'd rather he not be there. In fact, I'd prefer as clean a break as possible, with a minimum of returning characters. They never bring back the ones I would actually be interested to see, so I don't care. I have no strong feelings about Varric coming back either way, but I agree I'd prefer as few returning characters as possible. The only DA:I character that I think "needs" to come back is Dorian, both because it makes sense for him to be in the new game and because I feel his arc was left unfinished.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 13, 2020 18:10:01 GMT
...why can't I be serious? It seems far more reasonable for me to wait to see what a given product has to offer before judging whether or not it's good. I can see why people might be apprehensive (to a degree), but even then, it's just people imagining worst case scenarios. Why do that to yourself when you have zero idea how the character is going to be implemented in the next game? Personally, if I had to sit down and think about a returning character, I'd rather try to find the positives, the possible story scenarios that they could fit into, rather than sit around and imagine how horrible it's going to be.
You still don´t get it, don´t you? It doesn´t matter to wait for the final game. It doesn´t matter if Varric is in DA 4 the best character of them all. Fact is that Varric alread had enough screentime in the series. Especially if Varric becomes a companion for the third time!!! its quite "bizarre" argument to make that we should wait and see. Why?!? I can´t believe that i am saying but Varric as a DA 4 companion would be a wasted slot because we all know Varric for than enough and this inclusion means that characters like fan favourites like Harding can´t be companion because they were redundant. DA 4 has a limited budget you can´t bring all the people back how you like. If Varric a companion or major character someone has less screentime or isn´t even
in the game because again they fell redundant.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 14, 2020 7:52:42 GMT
While Morrigan technically did fullfill that role in the last game considering she read the outro slides it kind of is a little bit of a stretch still considering there was no indication she was recording events or was interested in 'writing'. She also introduced the first ever teaser trailer and even appeared in it with the challenge to the player "will you stand against the darkness or lead this world to its bitter end". So having her do the epilogue slides tied in with that. Why does anyone need to "write" about it? Was anybody chronicling what our Warden did in the Blight? Nope. Did anyone voice over the epilogue slides. Nope. Would it have been better if one of the characters had? I don't think so. So we don't need a narrator. If you want a narrator then why make it a companion? Let's face it, new players aren't going to know who Varric is anyway. So if you want an in world narrator, how about Genitivi, who is an actual in world historian, not a renowned writer of fiction. To be honest I think it is a handover from the DG era, because in his comics they always have an in world narrator, who is essentially telling the story from their PoV. It is not the only way to tell a story. This argument seems a little redundant. Yes, BioWare does not 'need' to have a narrator character its just A. such things usually are very popular within fantasy literature and...well its a big fantasy trope...and B. BioWare could be, maybe, might be, doing that with Varric. Keeping in mind, it should be important to keep in mind, that this all kind of seems like a lot of hand wringing over little details and one line of dialogue in a trailer of all things. We have next to no information of what Varric's role in the next game might be...we don't even know he has one!!! Yes he did the VO work and yes he mentioned that he 'has our back'...but that could mean anything and also there have been no Varric looking Dwarves in any of the concept art either. So *shrug*. Also worth noting that even if we go by the trends of such things that Varric could have a Morrigan like role in the next game which was...pretty small. Now that's a good point.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 14, 2020 9:43:54 GMT
I dunno what the fuss is about, I don't consider getting to read the ending slides to be "narrating" the game. The only game in the series that I'd say had a narrator was DA2, and even then, BARELY. The frame story of Cassandra interrogating Varric can't add up to more than an hour of the game at most.
I think there's a good possibility that they just used Varric for the trailer because a lot of veteran players like him (though god knows why), Morrigan is also kind of overused at this point, Flemeth is meant to be dead, and nobody else really... fits. Varric is established as an observer of events (the way Morrigan and Flemeth are) and a storyteller. The only other character I would think of to suit the dramatic tone the trailer is trying to pull off (assuming you need it to be a familiar character) is Solas, and that could work, as long as the narration was entirely different...
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 14, 2020 12:51:32 GMT
The only other character I would think of to suit the dramatic tone the trailer is trying to pull off (assuming you need it to be a familiar character) is Solas, and that could work, as long as the narration was entirely different... Well of course the narration has also be different but Dorian would be in my opinion the best candidate.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 14, 2020 19:47:33 GMT
Well of course the narration has also be different but Dorian would be in my opinion the best candidate. Not for that particular narrative because of course he never fought Meredith. The reference to friends losing life and limb was also clearly written with Varric in mind to say them. After that, though, the rest would work with Dorian.
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Post by telanadas on Dec 15, 2020 3:52:50 GMT
honestly I think DA4 needs some recurring characters to continue the story and Varric is the best candidate. He was the one who found the first lyrium idol with Hawke and he'll likely be instrumental in finding the real idol while also researching into its true purpose. We already know in TN there is confusion as to what the actual idol looks like.
Maybe his book in the vir dirthara is also a hint that something will happen to the dwarves as result of Solas' plans and that's why we've hardly seen any dwarven concept art yet. If that's the case seeing Varric's perspective and outcome would be super interesting because we've followed his story for so long. Also I didn't get the impression Varric would be narrator based on that recent trailer...imo it was pretty generic and designed to appeal to the masses more than hardcore fans of the game.
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Post by Highwayman667 on Dec 23, 2020 16:03:22 GMT
I guess it's fine... even though it's starting to seem like a stretch. He's supposedly, to my knowledge, just a dwarven rogue. So it's starting to sound a bit ridiculous that he's involved in every major event in the continent. He's already been close friends with both Hawke and the Inquisitor sooooo... him being a companion again doesn't sound very exciting to me.
He's still a great character though. If they find the right way to include him in the story then it'll be fine with me.
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Post by fairdragon on Dec 23, 2020 17:27:05 GMT
I guess it's fine... even though it's starting to seem like a stretch. He's supposedly, to my knowledge, just a dwarven rogue. So it's starting to sound a bit ridiculous that he's involved in every major event in the continent. He's already been close friends with both Hawke and the Inquisitor sooooo... him being a companion again doesn't sound very exciting to me. He's still a great character though. If they find the right way to include him in the story then it'll be fine with me. you are not quite right. there are world states were Varric isn't friend with the inquisitor.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 23, 2020 17:45:34 GMT
you are not quite right. there are world states were Varric isn't friend with the inquisitor. Also with Hawke but even for the DA 2 rival system i would view Varric and Hawke or Inquisitor relationship more friendly. At the end Varric is the only one doesn´t left the DA 2 and DAI. He always supports the playercharacter even he / she is a jerk to him.
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Post by Highwayman667 on Dec 23, 2020 17:48:54 GMT
you are not quite right. there are world states were Varric isn't friend with the inquisitor. Fair enough, but it still seems weird that some dwarven hustler is always at the center of these world-changing conflicts.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Dec 23, 2020 17:59:57 GMT
Fair enough, but it still seems weird that some dwarven hustler is always at the center of these world-changing conflicts. For DA2 and DAI it had made sense but for DA 4 (from what we know) not that much. I know that Varric had some connections in Tevinter mainly Maevaris and maybe Vaea & Ser Aaron but Varric had already plenty of screentime in the series.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 23, 2020 19:13:40 GMT
He always supports the playercharacter even he / she is a jerk to him. He also always supports them even if they are terrible people, like Hawke giving Fenris back to Denarius or the Inquisitor being utterly ruthless and a jerk to everyone else. It is why I think of him as less of a good friend and more someone who is looking after number one by giving unwavering support because he feels it is in his interests to do so. I assume the only thing he does not do to a non-friendly Inquisitor is give them the key to Kirkwall but I would like confirmation of this. Obviously, once the news about Solas surfaces then he is going to back any efforts by the shadow Inquisition regardless of how he feels about its leader out of self preservation, so I can understand him being active on their behalf in Kirkwall and the Freemarches but not in Tevinter, where there are other contacts more familiar with the place. Having been a member of the inner Circle he definitely doesn't qualify as someone Solas doesn't know about and coming into direct contact with the new PC would immediately alert Solas that he should be watching the latter. To keep the new PC under the radar, they should always be one step removed from established characters known to Solas.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 23, 2020 19:29:33 GMT
Unless of course he recruits the new protag in Kirkwall.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 23, 2020 21:27:02 GMT
Unless of course he recruits the new protag in Kirkwall. Well I'm hoping we get to establish our character before getting involved with the shadow Inquisition and that we will be a native of Tevinter, or Antiva if people are right about Antiva City being another location, or some other northern region. So the only reason for heading to Kirkwall is if we crossed someone important (like those two in Tevinter Nights) so need to get away from the locality. If Varric recruits us in Kirkwall from the beginning then we would already be someone with a reputation in order to attract his attention (like Hawke did), which would run counter to the idea we are an unknown quantity.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 23, 2020 21:48:48 GMT
Unless of course he recruits the new protag in Kirkwall. Well I'm hoping we get to establish our character before getting involved with the shadow Inquisition and that we will be a native of Tevinter, or Antiva if people are right about Antiva City being another location, or some other northern region. So the only reason for heading to Kirkwall is if we crossed someone important (like those two in Tevinter Nights) so need to get away from the locality. If Varric recruits us in Kirkwall from the beginning then we would already be someone with a reputation in order to attract his attention (like Hawke did), which would run counter to the idea we are an unknown quantity. i hope we don't get a specific country origin sometimes Other than that i think you are quite correct. We might get recruited by him, mid game. Realistically though i think his role will be the exact one, story wise, as Inquisition. He'll explain who Solas is to the newbie and leave. No companion statys certainly. He'll mouth vague platitudes about how the Inquisition and he 'has our back' but other than one specific cutscene and a tag along at our base maybe i don't think he'll be interactable.
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