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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 18:36:31 GMT
I don't like the old school isometric, so it has to be something exceptional to try to get back into 2D portraits and stuff. I wish they could just upgrade to Origins style, that would be pretty much perfect for me. Not too obsessed with graphics, but have plenty of artistic whimsy and easy on the eyes. I see nothing that I am going to play save for Tyranny eventually. It's fine to have the personal preference that you don't like isometric RPGs, but it's not a fair statement to say that there is a shortage of RPGs just because you don't like a lot of what's being made. I don't like the Call of Duty style of FPS games that became absurdly popular in the last 10 years, but I'm not about to make the claim that there is a shortage of FPS games just because I don't like a lot of what's on the market. I'm also hoping we'll hear something about Cyberpunk 2077 soon, since CDPR is the third of the big three AAA RPG developers that we didn't hear from at E3. Bethesda doesn't seem to be doing anything in RPGs right now except milking Skyrim further and adding VR to Fallout 4(which is closer to a FPS with RPG elements honestly). The last time I looked CDPR put out the statement that they were hacked and their old Cyberpunk files are held hostage, and that they are not paying. That might get leaked as a result, but the way they are wording their statements it sounds the files are irrelevant to the current state of the game. If they are doing that instead of publishing official information to head off the leak, I am not confident the game is any shape to be talked about. I am starting to think it's a vapourware.
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Post by Raga on Jun 14, 2017 18:37:55 GMT
Sure, now list every shooter made since 2006. Or every open world game made since then. Or every multiplayer with co-op. It's WAY higher than 20 odd. That's the kicker. An RPG developer ceasing to make RPGs is noteworthy. A game studio making a shooter, an open-world game, or a game with multiplayer co-op is not noteworthy in any way. I could also list all the RTS games of recent, which is a list that consists almost entirely of Starcraft 2. RPGs are looking pretty solid next to that list. It wasn't a dispute about which genre had more games but rather that there wasn't a shortage of RPG games, and I listed a good 20 or so off the top of my head. If I actually looked it up on Google, I could come up with quite a bit more than 20. Also BioWare isn't ceasing to make RPGs. Dragon Age didn't stop existing as far as I know, and Dragon Age 4 would be in development right now since they're different development teams. The list of things that calls itself RPG would certainly be longer. When I say RPG I mean something specific: the player has notable input on the PC's appearance, morals, personality, and combat skills. If it ain't got all of that, it's not an RPG. *Edit* If my definition of RPG sticks in the craw too much, you can easily replace it with "make your own character" games and the point stands. There are usually 2 or fewer games that fit this description every year. For triple AAA games it's more like 1 every other year with Bethesda, Bioware, and *sometimes* Obsidian taking turns. It's enough of a "shortage" if you want to call it that the absence of any major developer would be felt markedly. Not sure what the relevance of mentioning RTS games is? I should be grateful the species of game I like the most is only an endangered species as opposed to a critically endangered species? It's not very comforting. I also don't dispute that DA4 is still in the works. However, I also suspect that if that game isn't met with like 9.0 reviews across the board and amazing sells, it is in very high risk of being shelved. Anthem succeeding will also increase that risk significantly.
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 14, 2017 18:43:54 GMT
I could also list all the RTS games of recent, which is a list that consists almost entirely of Starcraft 2. RPGs are looking pretty solid next to that list. It wasn't a dispute about which genre had more games but rather that there wasn't a shortage of RPG games, and I listed a good 20 or so off the top of my head. If I actually looked it up on Google, I could come up with quite a bit more than 20. Also BioWare isn't ceasing to make RPGs. Dragon Age didn't stop existing as far as I know, and Dragon Age 4 would be in development right now since they're different development teams. I still feel there is a shortage, because my list for 2018 is AC:Origins (gods only know what it is), Prey (I am not sure about it) and, yes, Tyranny after the patch/DLC are out -and I don't like having to play the isometric one bit. That's not exactly a long list of things to try, and each of them comes with a "because there is nothing better". basically to have a really good gaming year, playing a great game after great game (loved 6/7 I've tried) I had to stop playing for ten years. I don't think it's ideal saturation. Prey is pretty good but it's essentially just trying to be a modern System Shock game. It doesn't have anything I would even consider RPG elements, unless inventory management and powers are being considered that. It still sucks for you, but it sounds more so like your tastes just don't align with what modern RPG developers are doing rather than there being an actual shortage of them. The three big AAA devs don't have anything coming up immediately(and honestly even if Anthem were a RPG we're not seeing it until 2018), and the smaller RPG devs have responded to the demand for old school isometric RPGs. That's what was getting them funding on Kickstarter was to make those kinds of games, not things closer to Dragon Age Origins. I'd suggest some stuff to try but I don't really know what you're into. The fact you got Assassin's Creed and Prey on your list of things to look at suggests you'd be okay with more action oriented combat, which opens up some possibilities(I'm assuming you've already considered or played The Witcher series though).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 19:01:22 GMT
I still feel there is a shortage, because my list for 2018 is AC:Origins (gods only know what it is), Prey (I am not sure about it) and, yes, Tyranny after the patch/DLC are out -and I don't like having to play the isometric one bit. That's not exactly a long list of things to try, and each of them comes with a "because there is nothing better". basically to have a really good gaming year, playing a great game after great game (loved 6/7 I've tried) I had to stop playing for ten years. I don't think it's ideal saturation. Prey is pretty good but it's essentially just trying to be a modern System Shock game. It doesn't have anything I would even consider RPG elements, unless inventory management and powers are being considered that. It still sucks for you, but it sounds more so like your tastes just don't align with what modern RPG developers are doing rather than there being an actual shortage of them. The three big AAA devs don't have anything coming up immediately(and honestly even if Anthem were a RPG we're not seeing it until 2018), and the smaller RPG devs have responded to the demand for old school isometric RPGs. That's what was getting them funding on Kickstarter was to make those kinds of games, not things closer to Dragon Age Origins. I'd suggest some stuff to try but I don't really know what you're into. The fact you got Assassin's Creed and Prey on your list of things to look at suggests you'd be okay with more action oriented combat, which opens up some possibilities(I'm assuming you've already considered or played The Witcher series though). I considered Witcher, but I did not like the setting/fixed main/OW features & some other less important stuff (not deciding factor, but overall Witcher is pretty much about everything I don't want in a game). I am interested in an exotic & not familiar setting (preferably no traditional fantasy) with a strong artistic vision, flexible/customizable protagonist, easy combat and character build (like DA2, ME2/3, Andromeda), 3rd person and 3D, shorter length (20-30 hours) with choices and easy to follow main story, no excessive crafting/Open World stuff. Some voicing is nice. PC only.
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 14, 2017 19:07:01 GMT
I could also list all the RTS games of recent, which is a list that consists almost entirely of Starcraft 2. RPGs are looking pretty solid next to that list. It wasn't a dispute about which genre had more games but rather that there wasn't a shortage of RPG games, and I listed a good 20 or so off the top of my head. If I actually looked it up on Google, I could come up with quite a bit more than 20. Also BioWare isn't ceasing to make RPGs. Dragon Age didn't stop existing as far as I know, and Dragon Age 4 would be in development right now since they're different development teams. The list of things that calls itself RPG would certainly be longer. When I say RPG I mean something specific: the player has notable input on the PC's appearance, morals, personality, and combat skills. If it ain't got all of that, it's not an RPG. *Edit* If my definition of RPG sticks in the craw too much, you can easily replace it with "make your own character" games and the point stands. There are usually 2 or fewer games that fit this description every year. For triple AAA games it's more like 1 every other year with Bethesda, Bioware, and *sometimes* Obsidian taking turns. It's enough of a "shortage" if you want to call it that the absence of any major developer would be felt markedly. Not sure what the relevance of mentioning RTS games is? I should be grateful the species of game I like the most is only an endangered species as opposed to a critically endangered species? It's not very comforting. I also don't dispute that DA4 is still in the works. However, I also suspect that if that game isn't met with like 9.0 reviews across the board and amazing sells, it is in very high risk of being shelved. Anthem succeeding will also increase that risk significantly. Most of that list I mentioned before still fits your description, and was released in the last 3-4 years(or had games in the last 3-4 years if I was talking about a series). The only one that's really questionable is The Witcher depending on how you feel about being stuck playing as Geralt. Though if you're okay with that then we should probably add Deus Ex to the list. As I said before, I could come up with a lot more if I actually spent some time looking around on Google. The point about RTS is that just because it's not as popular as FPS doesn't make it an endangered genre. RPG was an endangered genre but Kickstarter brought it back in 2013/2014.
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Post by Zemgus on Jun 14, 2017 19:08:11 GMT
Not yet, but I'm feeling hopeful after hearing it being described as an RPG by someone and the good signs that you can play it solo. So I would say at the moment I'm willing to give it a chance and of course hope very much that it will be a great game. Might as well be that it ends up being something that I will not even buy but it's too soon to tell.
I hope the marketing is better for this game than it was for Andromeda. Being able to find answer to all the most important questions sooner than 1 month before release would be preferable.
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Post by Raga on Jun 14, 2017 19:20:40 GMT
The list of things that calls itself RPG would certainly be longer. When I say RPG I mean something specific: the player has notable input on the PC's appearance, morals, personality, and combat skills. If it ain't got all of that, it's not an RPG. *Edit* If my definition of RPG sticks in the craw too much, you can easily replace it with "make your own character" games and the point stands. There are usually 2 or fewer games that fit this description every year. For triple AAA games it's more like 1 every other year with Bethesda, Bioware, and *sometimes* Obsidian taking turns. It's enough of a "shortage" if you want to call it that the absence of any major developer would be felt markedly. Not sure what the relevance of mentioning RTS games is? I should be grateful the species of game I like the most is only an endangered species as opposed to a critically endangered species? It's not very comforting. I also don't dispute that DA4 is still in the works. However, I also suspect that if that game isn't met with like 9.0 reviews across the board and amazing sells, it is in very high risk of being shelved. Anthem succeeding will also increase that risk significantly. Most of that list I mentioned before still fits your description, and was released in the last 3-4 years(or had games in the last 3-4 years if I was talking about a series). The only one that's really questionable is The Witcher depending on how you feel about being stuck playing as Geralt. Though if you're okay with that then we should probably add Deus Ex to the list. As I said before, I could come up with a lot more if I actually spent some time looking around on Google. The point about RTS is that just because it's not as popular as FPS doesn't make it an endangered genre. RPG was an endangered genre but Kickstarter brought it back in 2013/2014. It brought isometric RPGs back, but I don't think you can claim it "brought back" RPGs generally especially when you consider that Obsidian was always making RPGs, just not isometric ones. All it did was revert the 1 or so RPGs they made a year into isometric RPGs. It didn't really radically increase their output. The only noteworthy increase in output has been with some indie isometric RPGs and believe me I am *thrilled* by this development. It doesn't mean that indie RPGs dependent on kickstarter funds aren't extremely chancy things with a high risk of failure, that output has increased enough to claim that RPGs of this type are common enough that a major developer exiting the field wouldn't mean a noteworthy reduction in the numbers being developed, and certainly not that there has been any increase in the number of AAA games of this type. If you don't like the term "shortage" perhaps "rare" is better. They are rare enough that practically *any* dip in the numbers being produced makes an outsize impact in a way that wouldn't happen if say shooter development dropped by 10%.
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Post by Raga on Jun 14, 2017 19:22:10 GMT
Not yet, but I'm feeling hopeful after hearing it being described as an RPG by someone and the good signs that you can play it solo. So I would say at the moment I'm willing to give it a chance and of course hope very much that it will be a great game. Might as well be that it ends up being something that I will not even buy but it's too soon to tell. I hope the marketing is better for this game than it was for Andromeda. Being able to find answer to all the most important questions sooner than 1 month before release would be preferable. Yea, if it is in fact an RPG, I will gladly eat my hat and reaffirm my old mantra that Bioware marketing seems to deliberately misrepresent their games for some dumb reason. (For instance, from some of the trailers, you could come away thinking that DA2 and DAO were basically God of War type games).
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 14, 2017 19:29:13 GMT
Not yet, but I'm feeling hopeful after hearing it being described as an RPG by someone and the good signs that you can play it solo. So I would say at the moment I'm willing to give it a chance and of course hope very much that it will be a great game. Might as well be that it ends up being something that I will not even buy but it's too soon to tell. I hope the marketing is better for this game than it was for Andromeda. Being able to find answer to all the most important questions sooner than 1 month before release would be preferable. Yea, if it is in fact an RPG, I will gladly eat my hat and reaffirm my old mantra that Bioware marketing seems to deliberately misrepresent their games for some dumb reason. (For instance, from some of the trailers, you could come away thinking that DA2 and DAO were basically God of War type games). Bioware marketing has always been hilariously bad. It's like their terrified of scaring off the wider audience if they present their games as anything but action titles.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Jun 14, 2017 19:33:03 GMT
Not yet, but I'm feeling hopeful after hearing it being described as an RPG by someone and the good signs that you can play it solo. So I would say at the moment I'm willing to give it a chance and of course hope very much that it will be a great game. Might as well be that it ends up being something that I will not even buy but it's too soon to tell. I hope the marketing is better for this game than it was for Andromeda. Being able to find answer to all the most important questions sooner than 1 month before release would be preferable. Yea, if it is in fact an RPG, I will gladly eat my hat and reaffirm my old mantra that Bioware marketing seems to deliberately misrepresent their games for some dumb reason. (For instance, from some of the trailers, you could come away thinking that DA2 and DAO were basically God of War type games). The initial word was that it wasn't an RPG, but since the reveal they've labeled it "shared-world action-RPG". This leads me to believe it is pretty light on RPG features but it is hard to tell based on the limited information we have. Also the term RPG is used so loosely who knows what that means.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 19:39:06 GMT
Yea, if it is in fact an RPG, I will gladly eat my hat and reaffirm my old mantra that Bioware marketing seems to deliberately misrepresent their games for some dumb reason. (For instance, from some of the trailers, you could come away thinking that DA2 and DAO were basically God of War type games). The initial word was that it wasn't an RPG, but since the reveal they've labeled it "shared-world action-RPG". This leads me to believe it is pretty light on RPG features but it is hard to tell based on the limited information we have. Also the term RPG is used so loosely who knows what that means. A variety of things, apparently:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG
I think I like the Ruchnoi Protivotankoviy Granatomyot, hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher the most.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 14, 2017 19:42:41 GMT
Yea, if it is in fact an RPG, I will gladly eat my hat and reaffirm my old mantra that Bioware marketing seems to deliberately misrepresent their games for some dumb reason. (For instance, from some of the trailers, you could come away thinking that DA2 and DAO were basically God of War type games). The initial word was that it wasn't an RPG, but since the reveal they've labeled it "shared-world action-RPG". This leads me to believe it is pretty light on RPG features but it is hard to tell based on the limited information we have. Also the term RPG is used so loosely who knows what that means. Tells me they're backpedaling now that they realize they've pretty thoroughly alienated their core fans. But calling it a "shared-world action-RPG" is pretty meaningless, both due to their initial denial that this is an RPG at all, and because if you stretch the definition far enough, freaking BORDERLANDS is an RPG.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 14, 2017 19:58:38 GMT
The initial word was that it wasn't an RPG, but since the reveal they've labeled it "shared-world action-RPG". This leads me to believe it is pretty light on RPG features but it is hard to tell based on the limited information we have. Also the term RPG is used so loosely who knows what that means. Tells me they're backpedaling now that they realize they've pretty thoroughly alienated their core fans. But calling it a "shared-world action-RPG" is pretty meaningless, both due to their initial denial that this is an RPG at all, and because if you stretch the definition far enough, freaking BORDERLANDS is an RPG. Technically, the person who said it wasn't a RPG was EA CEO, not BioWare itself...and it was in front of investors who might feels like RPGs aren't worth investing in.
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Post by HunterKipling on Jun 14, 2017 20:10:13 GMT
I gave you a like just because of your portrait
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Post by HunterKipling on Jun 14, 2017 20:20:45 GMT
Not only do I expect a pretty solid portion of the BioWare fanbase to not care for this, but I expect a good number of people to be actively angered at BioWare for what looks to be a game that isn't even going to pretend to be a RPG like Mass Effect was trying to be a "action RPG", as though BioWare is apparently only allowed to make RPGs. Personally I'm 100% on board with this game, but then I don't stick to just a single genre. ... In fact, it feels as if Bioware has betrayed me thrice now. ... In reality there is only one thing BioWare owes to any of us, and that is to advertise their games honestly (which by and large I think they have done, in fact they can be obsessive about not committing to anything ahead of launch).
We have no right to expect them to make any particular type of game, the only choice we truly have is to invest in (or not) any game offered for sale.
BioWare I'm sure would like to launch a successful game in Anthem, but its player base for Anthem is not necessarily congruent with the player base from previous BioWare games, and that's fine, there are other games and game studios for many of the folk it doesn't interest. Agreed. They 've been hinting that their new IP would be an action game and only until we see more, can we proceed to judge. It is a different take. What I saw was action game with RPG elements. Any game you pick up and play will be an RPG, but Bioware did put their signature on how RPGs should feel like. It's that "feel" that got me hooked ever since NWN. I hope they truly believe in this new IP
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 14, 2017 20:25:58 GMT
Most of that list I mentioned before still fits your description, and was released in the last 3-4 years(or had games in the last 3-4 years if I was talking about a series). The only one that's really questionable is The Witcher depending on how you feel about being stuck playing as Geralt. Though if you're okay with that then we should probably add Deus Ex to the list. As I said before, I could come up with a lot more if I actually spent some time looking around on Google. The point about RTS is that just because it's not as popular as FPS doesn't make it an endangered genre. RPG was an endangered genre but Kickstarter brought it back in 2013/2014. It brought isometric RPGs back, but I don't think you can claim it "brought back" RPGs generally especially when you consider that Obsidian was always making RPGs, just not isometric ones. All it did was revert the 1 or so RPGs they made a year into isometric RPGs. It didn't really radically increase their output. The only noteworthy increase in output has been with some indie isometric RPGs and believe me I am *thrilled* by this development. It doesn't mean that indie RPGs dependent on kickstarter funds aren't extremely chancy things with a high risk of failure, that output has increased enough to claim that RPGs of this type are common enough that a major developer exiting the field wouldn't mean a noteworthy reduction in the numbers being developed, and certainly not that there has been any increase in the number of AAA games of this type. If you don't like the term "shortage" perhaps "rare" is better. They are rare enough that practically *any* dip in the numbers being produced makes an outsize impact in a way that wouldn't happen if say shooter development dropped by 10%. Looking at Obsidian's history of game releases, they were pretty light from 2007 to 2014, and most of it was centered around 2010. Even then since 2014 you've had Divinity Original Sin which has another game coming later this year, 3 Shadowrun games, Torment Tides of Numenera, and Wasteland 2(with Wasteland 3 in development). Despite that it didn't bring Obsidian back it's still only fair to include Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny in the list of RPGs that have come out in the last few years. We've also seen Dragon Age and Mass Effect from BioWare, Fallout 4 from Bethesda, and The Witcher 3 from CDPR which makes for games from each of the big three. You've also got games in the more "action RPG" group like Deus Ex and Dark Souls. Again I could come up with more if I looked into it more, especially if I'm allowed to go as far back as 2006. If somebody like DICE stopped making FPS games that would very much so be big news on account of the fact that they would leave a gap that nobody else is currently filling within the FPS genre. There isn't exactly a great deal more developers making AAA FPS games, they can just make them faster than you can make RPGs unless you're okay with them all being on the level of quality that Dragon Age 2 was. Calling it rare or shortage isn't really going to change that I think there is a good number of RPGs being made right now and in the last couple of years. The fact that FPS had a great 2016 and gets the same couple of franchises pumping out yearly releases doesn't really change that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 20:39:11 GMT
It brought isometric RPGs back, but I don't think you can claim it "brought back" RPGs generally especially when you consider that Obsidian was always making RPGs, just not isometric ones. All it did was revert the 1 or so RPGs they made a year into isometric RPGs. It didn't really radically increase their output. The only noteworthy increase in output has been with some indie isometric RPGs and believe me I am *thrilled* by this development. It doesn't mean that indie RPGs dependent on kickstarter funds aren't extremely chancy things with a high risk of failure, that output has increased enough to claim that RPGs of this type are common enough that a major developer exiting the field wouldn't mean a noteworthy reduction in the numbers being developed, and certainly not that there has been any increase in the number of AAA games of this type. If you don't like the term "shortage" perhaps "rare" is better. They are rare enough that practically *any* dip in the numbers being produced makes an outsize impact in a way that wouldn't happen if say shooter development dropped by 10%. Looking at Obsidian's history of game releases, they were pretty light from 2007 to 2014, and most of it was centered around 2010. Even then since 2014 you've had Divinity Original Sin which has another game coming later this year, 3 Shadowrun games, Torment Tides of Numenera, and Wasteland 2(with Wasteland 3 in development). Despite that it didn't bring Obsidian back it's still only fair to include Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny in the list of RPGs that have come out in the last few years. We've also seen Dragon Age and Mass Effect from BioWare, Fallout 4 from Bethesda, and The Witcher 3 from CDPR which makes for games from each of the big three. You've also got games in the more "action RPG" group like Deus Ex and Dark Souls. Again I could come up with more if I looked into it more, especially if I'm allowed to go as far back as 2006. If somebody like DICE stopped making FPS games that would very much so be big news on account of the fact that they would leave a gap that nobody else is currently filling within the FPS genre. There isn't exactly a great deal more developers making AAA FPS games, they can just make them faster than you can make RPGs unless you're okay with them all being on the level of quality that Dragon Age 2 was. Calling it rare or shortage isn't really going to change that I think there is a good number of RPGs being made right now and in the last couple of years. The fact that FPS had a great 2016 and gets the same couple of franchises pumping out yearly releases doesn't really change that. Omg, I'd be extatic to get one or two DA2 quality game per year! That game has everything right, save for reusing areas, but I can live with it. The art, the story, the length, the setting, the characters, the fighting, even romances, pretty much perfect. I would love games like DA2 pop up in a bunch of exotic settings with different species sometimes as protagonist and populating the worlds.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 14, 2017 20:42:07 GMT
Tells me they're backpedaling now that they realize they've pretty thoroughly alienated their core fans. But calling it a "shared-world action-RPG" is pretty meaningless, both due to their initial denial that this is an RPG at all, and because if you stretch the definition far enough, freaking BORDERLANDS is an RPG. Technically, the person who said it wasn't a RPG was EA CEO, not BioWare itself...and it was in front of investors who might feels like RPGs aren't worth investing in. So I guess the question is "Were they lying then, or are they lying now?"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 20:43:45 GMT
Technically, the person who said it wasn't a RPG was EA CEO, not BioWare itself...and it was in front of investors who might feels like RPGs aren't worth investing in. So I guess the question is "Were they lying then, or are they lying now?" We'll see in 2019.
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 14, 2017 20:52:09 GMT
Looking at Obsidian's history of game releases, they were pretty light from 2007 to 2014, and most of it was centered around 2010. Even then since 2014 you've had Divinity Original Sin which has another game coming later this year, 3 Shadowrun games, Torment Tides of Numenera, and Wasteland 2(with Wasteland 3 in development). Despite that it didn't bring Obsidian back it's still only fair to include Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny in the list of RPGs that have come out in the last few years. We've also seen Dragon Age and Mass Effect from BioWare, Fallout 4 from Bethesda, and The Witcher 3 from CDPR which makes for games from each of the big three. You've also got games in the more "action RPG" group like Deus Ex and Dark Souls. Again I could come up with more if I looked into it more, especially if I'm allowed to go as far back as 2006. If somebody like DICE stopped making FPS games that would very much so be big news on account of the fact that they would leave a gap that nobody else is currently filling within the FPS genre. There isn't exactly a great deal more developers making AAA FPS games, they can just make them faster than you can make RPGs unless you're okay with them all being on the level of quality that Dragon Age 2 was. Calling it rare or shortage isn't really going to change that I think there is a good number of RPGs being made right now and in the last couple of years. The fact that FPS had a great 2016 and gets the same couple of franchises pumping out yearly releases doesn't really change that. Omg, I'd be extatic to get one or two DA2 quality game per year! That game has everything right, save for reusing areas, but I can live with it. The art, the story, the length, the setting, the characters, the fighting, even romances, pretty much perfect. I would love games like DA2 pop up in a bunch of exotic settings with different species sometimes as protagonist and populating the worlds. Keep in mind when I say Dragon Age 2 I mean very little will change from exactly what that game is. You wont get different species or greatly different settings. You might get some new Humans or Elves as characters, but things wont change much beyond that. It's just going to be remaking Dragon Age 2 with minor changes ad infinitum until it stops making money or something else makes more money and then they'll do it to that game. That's what Call of Duty is. That's what Battlefield was before DICE got the idea to set it in World War 1 which was considered a huge deal for how new and different that was for AAA shooters(which CoD is now copying because of course they are and we've gone full circle with them going back to early 1900s). Titanfall 2 is basically just Titanfall with a few minor refinements and a very short SP campaign.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:01:49 GMT
Omg, I'd be extatic to get one or two DA2 quality game per year! That game has everything right, save for reusing areas, but I can live with it. The art, the story, the length, the setting, the characters, the fighting, even romances, pretty much perfect. I would love games like DA2 pop up in a bunch of exotic settings with different species sometimes as protagonist and populating the worlds. Keep in mind when I say Dragon Age 2 I mean very little will change from exactly what that game is. You wont get different species or greatly different settings. You might get some new Humans or Elves as characters, but things wont change much beyond that. It's just going to be remaking Dragon Age 2 with minor changes ad infinitum until it stops making money or something else makes more money and then they'll do it to that game. That's what Call of Duty is. That's what Battlefield was before DICE got the idea to set it in World War 1 which was considered a huge deal for how new and different that was for AAA shooters(which CoD is now copying because of course they are and we've gone full circle with them going back to early 1900s). Titanfall 2 is basically just Titanfall with a few minor refinements and a very short SP campaign. Well, if it had a new story as long and as engaging as DA2, and it stays in the same setting but change locations, and shifts between the 4 species (Q, E, D and H) and change the protagonist to one of the 4 between the installments, I would like that. For example, Kirkwall Adventure with Hawke as a Human, than an Orzamaar Adventure with a Dwarf as your protagonist (as customizable as Hawke), then Qunari one... or maybe a Human +1, depending on the setting.
Obviously, ideally, I'd love to have boutique settings with the similar number of maps (maybe just a few more interiors generated) for each game for each subsequent game, but overall, that idea of an unusual 20-30 hrs title with a strong story and a familiar rule-set, added and subtracted races, and...
I'd also be fine with stepping back on voicing and going back to unvoiced protagonist. Tbh, I like it in Origins.
Yep, that's my holy grail. Maybe in a few years the indie companies would be able to break even with Origins style games while keeping the rate of release up. Now, then, my Golden Age of PRGs will begin.
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Post by Raga on Jun 14, 2017 21:05:14 GMT
Looking at Obsidian's history of game releases, they were pretty light from 2007 to 2014, and most of it was centered around 2010. Even then since 2014 you've had Divinity Original Sin which has another game coming later this year, 3 Shadowrun games, Torment Tides of Numenera, and Wasteland 2(with Wasteland 3 in development). Despite that it didn't bring Obsidian back it's still only fair to include Pillars of Eternity and Tyranny in the list of RPGs that have come out in the last few years. We've also seen Dragon Age and Mass Effect from BioWare, Fallout 4 from Bethesda, and The Witcher 3 from CDPR which makes for games from each of the big three. You've also got games in the more "action RPG" group like Deus Ex and Dark Souls. Again I could come up with more if I looked into it more, especially if I'm allowed to go as far back as 2006. If somebody like DICE stopped making FPS games that would very much so be big news on account of the fact that they would leave a gap that nobody else is currently filling within the FPS genre. There isn't exactly a great deal more developers making AAA FPS games, they can just make them faster than you can make RPGs unless you're okay with them all being on the level of quality that Dragon Age 2 was. Calling it rare or shortage isn't really going to change that I think there is a good number of RPGs being made right now and in the last couple of years. The fact that FPS had a great 2016 and gets the same couple of franchises pumping out yearly releases doesn't really change that. This is getting extremely circular and this will be the last post I make on this specific topic. On the examples you provided: ME is now apparently on ice and cannot be expected to have any more games in the immediate future. I believe DA has a non trivial chance of also being iced if DA4 doesn't have a stupendous release. The fact that Fallout 4 came out in the last 2 years is sort of just timing luck because it takes Bethesda like 3-5 years to make an RPG. I'm explicitly not counting the Witcher and assorted other action RPGs as "make your own character" style games using the definition I already provided. The only other RPG series I'm aware of that isn't either really obscure or else low quality and not worth playing is Fable. Looking through a list things called RPGs released in recent years on Wikipedia did nothing to convince me the notable entries go much farther than the list you already provided. *Edit* Thought of one more. Kingdoms of Amalur. However, both Fable and it are pretty much defunct for purposes of sequels. The fact remains that the only noteworthy increase has been in indie isometric RPGs and I already explained that while this trend is very nice, it is not sufficient unto itself to consider RPGs common.
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 14, 2017 21:18:13 GMT
Well, if it had a new story as long and as engaging as DA2, and it stays in the same setting but change locations, and shifts between the 4 species (Q, E, D and H) and change the protagonist to one of the 4 between the installments, I would like that. For example, Kirkwall Adventure with Hawke as a Human, than an Orzamaar Adventure with a Dwarf as your protagonist (as customizable as Hawke), then Qunari one... or maybe a Human +1, depending on the setting.
Obviously, ideally, I'd love to have boutique settings with the similar number of maps (maybe just a few more interiors generated) for each game for each subsequent game, but overall, that idea of an unusual 20-30 hrs title with a strong story and a familiar rule-set, added and subtracted races, and...
I'd also be fine with stepping back on voicing and going back to unvoiced protagonist. Tbh, I like it in Origins.
Yep, that's my holy grail. Maybe in a few years the indie companies would be able to break even with origins style games while keeping the rate of release up. Now, then, my Golden Age of PRGs will begin.
Call of Duty Modern Warfare was praised for a particular scene involving a nuke going off in your face. You know what Modern Warfare 2's idea of building on that was? Doing it 3 times =P Part of the reason why FPS games are pumped out so quickly is because there is very little room for being creative or doing anything new with each iteration of it. They simply don't have the time to do that when you've got to put out a game every 12 months. Their campaigns also tend to be criminally short, but they also have a focus on MP that wouldn't exist in remaking DA2 for all eternity so that would allot for a bit more SP time. and it has only somewhat paid off for the FPS genre to do that. It was great for a few years but games like CoD are suffering now from stagnation. Assassin's Creed had a similar problem until they actually did something new and cool with Black Flag, which built largely on the naval combat minigame from AC3. Ubisoft seems to be learning their lesson with that series that maybe putting out the same game every year just causes burnout on your fanbase after a few years. If BioWare did yearly releases of Dragon Age I wouldn't expect new and interesting stories with each game as much as I would expect them to just rehash their old stories, because 12 months isn't really a lot of time to create an entirely new thing. As far as I know DA:O did fine for BioWare. It was actually DA2 that made EA go "Oh shit maybe we should give them more time to develop their games" because despite some people really liking it, it wasn't well received on the whole.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:25:56 GMT
Well, if it had a new story as long and as engaging as DA2, and it stays in the same setting but change locations, and shifts between the 4 species (Q, E, D and H) and change the protagonist to one of the 4 between the installments, I would like that. For example, Kirkwall Adventure with Hawke as a Human, than an Orzamaar Adventure with a Dwarf as your protagonist (as customizable as Hawke), then Qunari one... or maybe a Human +1, depending on the setting.
Obviously, ideally, I'd love to have boutique settings with the similar number of maps (maybe just a few more interiors generated) for each game for each subsequent game, but overall, that idea of an unusual 20-30 hrs title with a strong story and a familiar rule-set, added and subtracted races, and...
I'd also be fine with stepping back on voicing and going back to unvoiced protagonist. Tbh, I like it in Origins.
Yep, that's my holy grail. Maybe in a few years the indie companies would be able to break even with origins style games while keeping the rate of release up. Now, then, my Golden Age of PRGs will begin.
Call of Duty Modern Warfare was praised for a particular scene involving a nuke going off in your face. You know what Modern Warfare 2's idea of building on that was? Doing it 3 times =P Part of the reason why FPS games are pumped out so quickly is because there is very little room for being creative or doing anything new with each iteration of it. They simply don't have the time to do that when you've got to put out a game every 12 months. Their campaigns also tend to be criminally short, but they also have a focus on MP that wouldn't exist in remaking DA2 for all eternity so that would allot for a bit more SP time. and it has only somewhat paid off for the FPS genre to do that. It was great for a few years but games like CoD are suffering now from stagnation. Assassin's Creed had a similar problem until they actually did something new and cool with Black Flag, which built largely on the naval combat minigame from AC3. Ubisoft seems to be learning their lesson with that series that maybe putting out the same game every year just causes burnout on your fanbase after a few years. If BioWare did yearly releases of Dragon Age I wouldn't expect new and interesting stories with each game as much as I would expect them to just rehash their old stories, because 12 months isn't really a lot of time to create an entirely new thing. As far as I know DA:O did fine for BioWare. It was actually DA2 that made EA go "Oh shit maybe we should give them more time to develop their games" because despite some people really liking it, it wasn't well received on the whole. Ah, but it does not have to be DA game every year. They have 4 IPs they completely own now. Jade Empire, DA, ME and well, Anthem. A 20-30 hour game of a DA2 scope in one of those settings every year will make me super-happy. Or, like I said, indie being able to do decent, but not bleeding edge 3D with limited area art and (some) voice.
What I am looking for are exotic, shorter, faster combat, no dalliances interesting adventures for my own hero/ine in half-way decent 3D that has artistic merit. These 100+ hrs monstrosities with everything staged in cutscenes and crafting to choke you, I di dnot ask for that.
I'd be happy to try PoE and Tides if they were in Aurora MK2 or Unreal. But since they are isometric, and the settings, combat and writing are not quite what I like, I'll pass. But Tyranny, yeah, it's pretty much perfect save for isometric.
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Post by Red on Jun 14, 2017 21:31:52 GMT
I think I'll try to play Anthem, if it's more RPG than it looks and also or if It have a decent single player mode, for me to play a copy of Destiny for the multiplayer is better to play Destiny itself.
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