Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jun 13, 2017 21:58:01 GMT
Bioware is (or was) the last AAA developer of RPGs. Now they're abandoning that market. Now I've backed a number of Kickstarters for indie RPGs. Some of them quite reminiscent of "old-school" Bioware. But the desire to see a big-budget "proper" RPG is still there. Since I really have gone for broke today and dropped down to join the "BIOWARE IS OVER!!!" screamers (something I never thought I would do), I might as well cinch the stereotype by pointing out that Cyberpunk 2077 does appear from all preliminary evidence to be an actual RPG. Honestly, I don't know is CDPR qualifies as AAA or simply high-end indie. I don't follow them as much as I probably should, since I really don't care for the Witcher (not a knock on them, I simply don't like the character or setting)
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Post by Raga on Jun 13, 2017 22:01:03 GMT
I'm actually "eh" on the Witcher myself. I've only played like 2/3 of the first one and found it pretty mediocre. Having to play as Geralt kills like half of the excitement I might otherwise have for it. But the new IP apparently lets you chose your gender and class.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 13, 2017 22:21:02 GMT
My thoughts before? Before I knew about the game at all?
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kumazan
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Post by kumazan on Jun 13, 2017 22:24:09 GMT
The trailer didn't, the announcement that it can be played solo did, from "probably not for me" to "I'm keeping a close eye on it". As of now, it's still a game I'd only consider buying when on sale, but I'll give them the chance to convince me.
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on Jun 13, 2017 22:24:16 GMT
Since I really have gone for broke today and dropped down to join the "BIOWARE IS OVER!!!" screamers (something I never thought I would do), I might as well cinch the stereotype by pointing out that Cyberpunk 2077 does appear from all preliminary evidence to be an actual RPG. Honestly, I don't know is CDPR qualifies as AAA or simply high-end indie. I don't follow them as much as I probably should, since I really don't care for the Witcher (not a knock on them, I simply don't like the character or setting) Their budget for The Witcher 3 was in the tens of millions, so yeah, pretty definitively AAA. They might self-publish, but their production values were AA around the time of The Witcher and have since increased dramatically. High end indie is like, Transistor. In any case, The Witcher 3 falls within the same cinematic RPG genre BioWare carved out with KoTOR, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect. Other than character creation, companions, and superficial differences, it's basically a BioWare game. My suspicion is that 2077 will likely be one as well, given the scant information we've been told, but quite possibly with a character creator. We've dealt with only ever having the one cinematic RPG developer before, and I suppose that's what we're doing going to have to do again, just with CDPR. Frankly, I'd prefer it this way if the alternative is BioWare constantly falling on their face, continually rehashing their old tropes and making strange compromises between action game and RPG that leave both in a worse situation. At least with Anthem, there's a chance that they can potentially excel in a new genre rather than stagnate in another. It's not ideal for the RPG lovers, but somehow I don't think "BioWare makes amazing cinematic RPG" is really in the cards at the moment. That just doesn't seem like how they're built anymore, and I'm not an advocate of replacing personnel for the sake of maintaining corporate identity.
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Post by Frost on Jun 14, 2017 2:23:44 GMT
We've dealt with only ever having the one cinematic RPG developer before, and I suppose that's what we're doing going to have to do again, just with CDPR. Frankly, I'd prefer it this way if the alternative is BioWare constantly falling on their face, continually rehashing their old tropes and making strange compromises between action game and RPG that leave both in a worse situation. At least with Anthem, there's a chance that they can potentially excel in a new genre rather than stagnate in another. It's not ideal for the RPG lovers, but somehow I don't think "BioWare makes amazing cinematic RPG" is really in the cards at the moment. That just doesn't seem like how they're built anymore, and I'm not an advocate of replacing personnel for the sake of maintaining corporate identity. This would be really rough for people who don't like the Witcher/CDPR, though. If CDPR is the only one making AAA cinematic RPGs, it means I won't be playing cinematic RPGs. I am hoping for a good DA4, though, and/or that Obsidian will be able at some point to make a few AAA cinematic RPGs along with the old-school ones. As far as the OP's question my opinion went from neutral to neutral/negative, mostly because of some of the game being in 1st person.
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on Jun 14, 2017 2:49:01 GMT
We've dealt with only ever having the one cinematic RPG developer before, and I suppose that's what we're doing going to have to do again, just with CDPR. Frankly, I'd prefer it this way if the alternative is BioWare constantly falling on their face, continually rehashing their old tropes and making strange compromises between action game and RPG that leave both in a worse situation. At least with Anthem, there's a chance that they can potentially excel in a new genre rather than stagnate in another. It's not ideal for the RPG lovers, but somehow I don't think "BioWare makes amazing cinematic RPG" is really in the cards at the moment. That just doesn't seem like how they're built anymore, and I'm not an advocate of replacing personnel for the sake of maintaining corporate identity. This would be really rough for people who don't like the Witcher/CDPR, though. If CDPR is the only one making AAA cinematic RPGs, it means I won't be playing cinematic RPGs. I am hoping for a good DA4, though, and/or that Obsidian will be able at some point to make a few AAA cinematic RPGs along with the old-school ones. Just like it was rough for people who don't like BioWare's flavor of RPG. I won't say it doesn't suck, but that's just how it goes. However, something tells me that the cinematic space RPG is not a genre that will be completely abandoned. And Obsidian made Alpha Protocol, a cinematic stealth RPG. I just don't think they're in much of a financial position to make another game like it, and I certainly don't think they have the kind of staff to juggle multiple large franchises like BioWare. Pillars and their set of miscellaneous AA RPG will have to suffice, and honestly, that's for the best. Part of the reason BioWare games have such erratic quality of late is that the BioWare name encompasses more than a single group of developers.
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Post by redbarrookie on Jun 14, 2017 2:56:44 GMT
I really wish there was a positive to extremely positive option. Then again, I'd probably be the only one to choose it so hey probably for the best you didn't put it in.
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HunterKipling
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It's Raining Leggos!!!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by HunterKipling on Jun 14, 2017 4:21:13 GMT
MEA and DAI felt experimental bordering on WTF simply because of how it felt rushed. Story is my criteria to call it a good BW game. As long as BW can own this new IP, tell me a good story and that they feel proud about it, I'm there all the way.
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ENGINEER_H4RR7
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Can't keep up with all the DLC prices for XBOX GWG!!!
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Post by ENGINEER_H4RR7 on Jun 14, 2017 4:28:51 GMT
I am vary negative for this, because they said you can play this solo, but still, you know that there will content locked behind pay walls and needing more players to do a mission, just like Dead Space 3. I hate that.
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Post by LightningPoodle on Jun 14, 2017 4:53:28 GMT
From negative to very positive.
BioWare have failed recently to bring about much of a positive opinion out of me. I expected Dylan to look good but pretty meh overall. How wrong I was. The game looks amazing. It looks just like what I've wanted for years. What I wished Destiny was going to be. I am even tempted to upgrade my Xbox One to the One X in order to play it at it's best quality.
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fredvdp
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fredvdp on Jun 14, 2017 8:09:47 GMT
From neutral to neutral. I have to see unscripted gameplay before I can make up my mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 12:24:59 GMT
Honestly, I don't know is CDPR qualifies as AAA or simply high-end indie. I don't follow them as much as I probably should, since I really don't care for the Witcher (not a knock on them, I simply don't like the character or setting) Their budget for The Witcher 3 was in the tens of millions, so yeah, pretty definitively AAA. They might self-publish, but their production values were AA around the time of The Witcher and have since increased dramatically. High end indie is like, Transistor. In any case, The Witcher 3 falls within the same cinematic RPG genre BioWare carved out with KoTOR, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect. Other than character creation, companions, and superficial differences, it's basically a BioWare game. My suspicion is that 2077 will likely be one as well, given the scant information we've been told, but quite possibly with a character creator. No it's NOT! No customized protagonist, no party = not the same at ALL. Not to mention that BioWare let us play in 6 very different settings over 20 years in basicaly two dozen full-length games (more if you count Black Isle's IWD and Torment and sequels), while CDPR stack with the same one for a decade and delivered far fewer games. CDPR is not an alternative at all, they do not diversify, they do not produce at a decent pace, and they are yet to get out of the very niche genre of translating one endless National novel into a game.
At this point, CDPR despite the (btw competition-killing) support from the Polish government failed to demonstrate an ability to compete with the private Western developers in terms of variety of content. They basically produced three variations of one game. Even the failed developer Obsidian provided far better variety and quantity of games over the same period of time at far lesser funding.
If I am to look for competition for BiOWARE, I am hoping it's Obsidian, not CDPR, because up till now they showed a complete lack of flexibility and their work was derivative from a novel and non-creative. They also showed lack of guts for not adopting the chosen setting to a video-gaming media, but blatantly copying it on the author's command. BioWARE managed to create their own stories and personalize even Lukas' setting by contrast.
SWTOR alone delivers 8x the versatility of protagonist and player's experience over all three Witcher games combined.
As a monopolist of the genre, CDPR will suck a huge deal compared to BioWARE.
Despite not really being a target audience for Anthem, I fit easier with the Anthem than with the Witcher series.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 13:35:01 GMT
luketrevelyan , Raga , Iakus , Kroitz For what it's worth, if you haven't read this post, I recommend it: bsn.boards.net/thread/11290/why-familiar-different-caseIt explains why the gameplay trailer was pitched the way it was, and how more traditional Bioware values, like story and character, might be waiting in the wings. I mean, why have Bioware make an action game in the first place, if story and character weren't seen as a competitive advantage in the action segment? Bioware has explicitly stated that Anthem is not going to be an RPG. That alone is going to stop me from buying it.
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on Jun 14, 2017 13:37:07 GMT
Their budget for The Witcher 3 was in the tens of millions, so yeah, pretty definitively AAA. They might self-publish, but their production values were AA around the time of The Witcher and have since increased dramatically. High end indie is like, Transistor. In any case, The Witcher 3 falls within the same cinematic RPG genre BioWare carved out with KoTOR, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect. Other than character creation, companions, and superficial differences, it's basically a BioWare game. My suspicion is that 2077 will likely be one as well, given the scant information we've been told, but quite possibly with a character creator. No it's NOT! No customized protagonist, no party = not the same at ALL. Sure, if you have a completely superficial understanding of game design. Those mechanics engender a few different gameplay loops, but largely the cinematic RPG experience is similar across the two developers, certainly enough to put their games within the same sub-genre. Look, I honestly don't care about personal vendettas against CDPR, or Obsidian for that matter (but "failed," seriously? they're doing fine). That's not what I'm here for. I don't really have time to counter all this cognitive dissonance. Suffice it to say: you're bending over backwards to dislike a perfectly competent developer and an exceptionally well-liked and well-made game for entirely arbitrary or subjective reasons. I know it sucks that your team isn't doing so well in the public eye and that you're not a fan of the cool new kid on the block, but like I said earlier, that's just how it goes. And 2077 sounds like it'll have a custom protagonist, so it'll probably be more up your alley than you think.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 13:49:14 GMT
No it's NOT! No customized protagonist, no party = not the same at ALL. Sure, if you have a completely superficial understanding of game design. Those mechanics engender a few different gameplay loops, but largely the cinematic RPG experience is similar across the two developers, certainly enough to put their games within the same sub-genre. Look, I honestly don't care about personal vendettas against CDPR, or Obsidian for that matter (but "failed," seriously? they're doing fine). That's not what I'm here for. I don't really have time to counter all this cognitive dissonance. Suffice it to say: you're bending over backwards to dislike a perfectly competent developer and an exceptionally well-liked and well-made game for entirely arbitrary or subjective reasons. I know it sucks that your team isn't doing so well in the public eye and that you're not a fan of the cool new kid on the block, but like I said earlier, that's just how it goes. And 2077 sounds like it'll have a custom protagonist, so it'll probably be more up your alley than you think. If Cyberpunk has a customized protagonist and party play, sure, it is a game that can be compared to a BioWare's game. THEN, starting with Cyberpunk, CDPR can be considered an alternative. But we have no official information on what kind of a game Cyberpunk is since 2013. And production rate from CDPR is still way too slow to satisfy a need to entertain an individual player who wants to play RPGs. Even if Witcher was factored in, the whole industry's output is insufficient in the RPG category. CDPR also has never delivered multiple IPs in parallel, and that to me is a major concern with them, as well as how little they tell about Cyberpunk, and how long it was in development. cinematics is NOT what defines BioWare games to me, it's the structure of the game where you create your own character, build a party and adventure through a narrative adapted to your direction to that protagonist. However different BioWare games are between one another, they ALL have that in common. CDPR three released games do not. It's you who places emphasis on a cosmetic rather than structural similarity. Who you play in the game is at the very heart of role-playing, and CDPR's answer is the same as JRPG answer than BioWare's. The treatment of setting and approach to the protagonist creation creation is way more important to me than how dialogue is presented. Cinematic cutscenes are just icing on the cake, not the reason to play video-games. If cinematics are the defining aspect, then movies are the best video-games. Obsidian unfortunately was not doing fine through its history. It had successful projects, then failed projects, and went from AAA titles to indie with outdated technology to support their production. I am absolutely hoping it manages to rise enough capital to at least relicence Aurora or Unreal and do 3D. Because isometrics belong in the last century & until they catch up to it, it will be hard to appreciate their games.
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DoctorFox
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Post by DoctorFox on Jun 14, 2017 15:04:02 GMT
The trailer gameplay didn't really show anything gripping. There was no connection to any of the characters that made me feel like I wanted to see more. Just looked like people buzzing around in iron man suits
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HowlingSiren
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by HowlingSiren on Jun 14, 2017 17:19:52 GMT
I would have picked from neutral to positive, had that been an option, so did not vote. I'm lucky to be able to play with the boyfriend, and we had (and still are having) a lot of fun with the Division on PC, so I am hoping for a similar co-op campaign experience. We're also looking forward to Far Cry 5 co-op for that same reason. That being said, I am a solo player at heart, and I would be disappointed if BW would stop producing single player content. I'm still hoping they'll go back to tighter story-driven games for their SP products, but if they want to branch out into co-op in parallel, by all means, no criticism from me on the principle.
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 15, 2017 0:08:08 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Demo trailer did not move me one way or another. "Live Service", however, does push me into the negative.
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Post by zipzap2000 on Jun 15, 2017 1:15:51 GMT
It made me believe in not buying it.
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Post by kali073 on Jun 16, 2017 8:22:18 GMT
Apprehensive to apprehensive for me.
We didn't really get to know much about the story, the little that can be inferred from the trailer doesn't really stick out from other games of it's type. I feel like I haven't fully grasped Anthem's identity as a game yet.
I'm not really comfortable playing games with other people (there's only one person I'd consider playing with and she's on XboxOne while I'm on PC) but we already knew there would be some form of cooperation between players. From the trailer it looks like it might be necessary to do certain missions but maybe those people can be replaced by NPCs for us less socially inclined.
In short, we have too little information to know for sure but so far it doesn't look like a game for me but they might still surprise me.
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Stay strong, and queer!
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Post by moderately incensed firmicute on Jun 18, 2017 17:54:57 GMT
from I dont care to "i cant stop rolling my eyes over the cringe and still not care."
you lack the "didnt change for me" option which makes that poll a bit worthless because it will only get the people who had a change because of the trailer.. but to gauge a bit more how/whether that (imo fucking cliche and cringy) trailer had a bigger effet and on whom you'd need to give the otoons to people to tell you that it hadnt changed or that it had gotten even worse..
1. didnt change 2. good->better 3.better >neutral 4. neutral to bad 5. bad to neutral 6 good to bad 7 bad to good.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 18, 2017 18:30:49 GMT
From somewhat positive to somewhat negative. Still pretty close to neutral. No excitement other than seeing the basic design of lots of cool movement mechanics. I don't get excited about super co-op games - I may enjoy them and play some, but the genre(?) doesn't 'excite' me.
If a few things get revealed about Anthem in the coming year, sure maybe I'll get positive again.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 18, 2017 18:33:46 GMT
from I dont care to "i cant stop rolling my eyes over the cringe and still not care." you lack the "didnt change for me" option which makes that poll a bit worthless because it will only get the people who had a change because of the trailer.. but to gauge a bit more how/whether that (imo fucking cliche and cringy) trailer had a bigger effet and on whom you'd need to give the otoons to people to tell you that it hadnt changed or that it had gotten even worse.. 1. didnt change 2. good->better 3.better >neutral 4. neutral to bad 5. bad to neutral 6 good to bad 7 bad to good. I understand, but that wasn't my intention. I purposely structured the poll to only cover the cases where there was change from positive to negative, or negative to positive. Because that's what I was interested in. In hindsight, I should have added cases for neutral -> positive, and neutral -> negative, since there seemed to be a lot of movement from the neutral starting point based on comments.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jun 20, 2017 1:15:53 GMT
My interest went downhill very quickly.
Doesn't sound like it will be "for me". And I've arrived at the place where Hrungr was before the announcement - this is the game holding up DA4.
*grumbles about not getting superheroes*
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