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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 14, 2017 20:55:24 GMT
For the most part in most story-driven games, the player either plays the role of the main character of the story (from the Vault Dweller to the Inquisitor), or the player acts as a scene director, ordering actors around and making some decisions for them. While an actor is the main character (from Lara Croft to Booker DeWitt), it still feels to the player like you are the center of the story. But what if in Anthem, in order to accommodate the drop-in co-op nature of the game, all the Freelancers are essentially supporting actors, or side-kicks, and the main character of the story is an NPC? For example, what if the main character/protagonist is the commander of Fort T, an NPC? That would solve a ton of problems in how to make a co-op game story-driven: - Breaks the player out of the straight-jacket of the "Chosen One" role that's typical for story-driven games
- Makes all Freelancers more or less equal in the eyes of the story, creating some new storytelling opportunities (see below)
- Gives a more logical foundation for how a player running an errand progresses the story forward: so you don't have the silliness of the high muckety-muck Inquisitor running around gathering flowers or hunting rams. A flunky should be doing that, and in Anthem, you're the flunky!
- Allows the player to be an observer, rather than the focus, of some important event in the story
- Frees the player from the story altogether, if they so choose -- if they player would rather just treat the game as a sandbox and ignore the story, they can
Turning casting on its head, as it were, would open up some interesting opportunities that "player is the chosen one" story-driven games could never exploit: - You could choose to oppose the hero! Talk about Renegade!
- Different friends could have different/unique scenes with the NPC main character. If it's unique, the only way you'd hear about it is if your friend tells you about it. What a great way to leverage the social aspect of co-op. You could be sitting around the hub, doing busywork like selling excess inventory or crafting gear, and telling each other stories about, "Yeah, I got into a big argument with the Old Man yesterday. He literally flipped a table."
- You know those annoying escort missions in games? Well, maybe they wouldn't be so annoying if you are escorting the main character and you get to witness an important milestone in the story during the escort.
- You could bang the main character, and so could your friends! (Ahem, well, it is a Bioware game ...)
What do you think?
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Post by lynx7386 on Jun 14, 2017 20:59:38 GMT
Good idea, I like it.
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Post by Cyonan on Jun 14, 2017 21:05:11 GMT
If they were going to do this I think they would still need to acknowledge the players to a pretty good degree though, even if they weren't the main star of the show.
I've seen over the years Blizzard having the complaints about WoW of the players being "kill stolen" by NPCs who were given credit in lore for raid bosses that we defeated.
In my experience most players don't like doing all the hard work and then having the game praise some random NPC for it.
Plus a main character that isn't us which I assume is a pre-defined character that we can romance would cause riots based on what gender that main character was. If they were female people who wanted to romance a male character would riot, or vice versa if they were male
Also escort quests are mainly annoying or not depending on the person being escort. If they can handle their own like Elizabeth from Bioshock it's not bad.
If it's Ashely from Resident Evil 4 I want to throw her into a dumpster, light said dumpster on fire, throw the dumpster into the deepest pit I can find, and then nuke the god damn thing from orbit if I have to listen to her shout "LEON HELP" one more time.
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 14, 2017 21:06:53 GMT
I think you're confusing the player being the main character and the player being in charge. Our character will be the protagonist of the story they choose to tell. I doubt they will be in charge of the fort. Going by the name "Freelancer," it would seem we are mercenaries. I would guess they'll go the Destiny route, we aren't special we just happen to get embroiled in events
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 21:08:38 GMT
If we get to bring this "boss" along, sure. If the "boss" sits in the camp, while Freelancer runs around doing all the stuff, and sees the "boss" only once in a while, and gets cutscenes about what the "boss" is doing, the "boss" is still just a plot-important NPC. Don't see how it's different from Anders, Aribeth, Solas, Advisors, Master Li, or Lord Barras in SWTOR, etc.
Freelancer sounds like BH or Smuggler story in SWTOR.
But, yes, for sure, won't mind a bunch of solid, plot-important NPCs in positions of authority over PC.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 14, 2017 21:13:51 GMT
I think you're confusing the player being the main character and the player being in charge. Our character will be the protagonist of the story they choose to tell. I doubt they will be in charge of the fort. Going by the name "Freelancer," it would seem we are mercenaries. I would guess they'll go the Destiny route, we aren't special we just happen to get embroiled in events You might have misunderstood my example. I'm saying the protagonist is the commander of the fort, and the character the player controls is not the protagonist. Perhaps in the title instead of "main story character", I should have said "protagonist". That's what I meant. The central character of the story. Who would not be a character the player controlled in any way. A total NPC. However, you do mention another alternative that is worthy of consideration, which is "emergent storytelling." Where there isn't a fixed narrative, no dialogue trees, none of that. Any story there is in the game is what you and your friends create in a giant sandbox by just messing around and trying different things, totally improv roleplaying at best. While I think that game design has merit, it wastes the talents of Bioware.
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Post by azarhal on Jun 14, 2017 21:17:03 GMT
It's quite possible the game has a personal story that make you move around the open world and being a Freelancer just means getting quests to kill monsters and finding stuff makes sense.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 14, 2017 21:20:12 GMT
If they were going to do this I think they would still need to acknowledge the players to a pretty good degree though, even if they weren't the main star of the show. I've seen over the years Blizzard having the complaints about WoW of the players being "kill stolen" by NPCs who were given credit in lore for raid bosses that we defeated. In my experience most players don't like doing all the hard work and then having the game praise some random NPC for it. Plus a main character that isn't us which I assume is a pre-defined character that we can romance would cause riots based on what gender that main character was. If they were female people who wanted to romance a male character would riot, or vice versa if they were male Sigh. Yes, you're right of course. A couple of ways to solve that. Maybe there are several bangable NPCs. Maybe there are several NPCs vying for the commander's seat and Freelancers support their favorite and undermine/sabotage the competition. Or maybe the Commander is the only NPC in the fort who is not bangable.
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Post by Fogg on Jun 14, 2017 21:20:32 GMT
Nice idea, reminds me a bit of the storyline in Skyrim when you follow along that rebel leader.
But I don't think BioWare is going to take any risks in such an important title.
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 14, 2017 21:21:10 GMT
I think you're confusing the player being the main character and the player being in charge. Our character will be the protagonist of the story they choose to tell. I doubt they will be in charge of the fort. Going by the name "Freelancer," it would seem we are mercenaries. I would guess they'll go the Destiny route, we aren't special we just happen to get embroiled in events You might have misunderstood my example. I'm saying the protagonist is the commander of the fort, and the character the player controls is not the protagonist. Perhaps in the title instead of "main story character", I should have said "protagonist". That's what I meant. The central character of the story. Who would not be a character the player controlled in any way. A total NPC. However, you do mention another alternative that is worthy of consideration, which is "emergent storytelling." Where there isn't a fixed narrative, no dialogue trees, none of that. Any story there is in the game is what you and your friends create in a giant sandbox by just messing around and trying different things, totally improv roleplaying at best. While I think that game design has merit, it wastes the talents of Bioware. I wasn't talking about emergent narrative, I was just saying that we can have a main character that is not a chosen one, and doesn't make freelancers any less equal to one another in the eyes of the story. I don't understand the appeal of what you're talking about. If this character sits back and gives orders from the fort while we actually do things how does that make them the Protagonist? If you want a story where we aren't in charge, I don't see why the boss character has to be the protagonist.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 14, 2017 21:32:11 GMT
I don't understand the appeal of what you're talking about. If this character sits back and gives orders from the fort while we actually do things how does that make them the Protagonist? If you want a story where we aren't in charge, I don't see why the boss character has to be the protagonist. It's just an example, one that motivates why we might be doing shitwork errands while still making sense, storywise. Pick whatever archetype you prefer -- mysterious alien that you rescue from a crash, or a little lost orphan girl, or the avatar of the planet's spirit, or the Bavarian Illuminati -- doesn't matter. The larger point is, if the protagonist in an NPC, the story can be told and progressed more naturally, without trying to manipulate the player into playing the role the story requires. The NPC could be a very dynamic character -- think Indiana Jones or Diana -- that's in every scene or main quest stage that matters, out in the world kicking alien ass and taking names, and you're right there with the hero, either helping, hurting, or staying the hell out of the way, your choice.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 14, 2017 21:41:20 GMT
Nice idea, reminds me a bit of the storyline in Skyrim when you follow along that rebel leader. But I don't think BioWare is going to take any risks in such an important title. You mean taking any more risks, since doing a co-op action game is arguably a huge risk for the brand to begin with. I take your point and, sadly, I think you're right. It's not that they shouldn't take the risk, it's more that they might not believe that it's less of a risk than just doing the same kind of narrative they always do in RPGs. I think that's a bigger risk, or at least equal sized. We don't have any reason to believe that a traditional Bioware approach to story is going to fit in a game like this, KOTOR notwithstanding, since arguably KOTOR was a different type of game than Anthem.
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 14, 2017 21:48:07 GMT
I don't understand the appeal of what you're talking about. If this character sits back and gives orders from the fort while we actually do things how does that make them the Protagonist? If you want a story where we aren't in charge, I don't see why the boss character has to be the protagonist. It's just an example, one that motivates why we might be doing shitwork errands while still making sense, storywise. Pick whatever archetype you prefer -- mysterious alien that you rescue from a crash, or a little lost orphan girl, or the avatar of the planet's spirit, or the Bavarian Illuminati -- doesn't matter. The larger point is, if the protagonist in an NPC, the story can be told and progressed more naturally, without trying to manipulate the player (who is one of several friends) into playing the role the story requires. The NPC could be a very dynamic character -- think Indiana Jones or Diana -- that's in every scene or main quest stage that matters, out in the world kicking alien ass and taking names, and you're right there with the hero, either helping, hurting, or staying the hell out of the way, your choice. ...I still don't get why this is a protagonist role. Having another character's orders or problems driving the plot doesn't make them the protagonist. If you mean we will develop our characters in the context of being a subordinate , I can get behind that, but I don't see how this means our character is not the protagonist. It will still be our choices and our exploits that we follow even if there is another character making higher level decisions driving the plot.
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Post by Wulfram on Jun 14, 2017 22:07:00 GMT
So like Oblivion, and Guild Wars 2? I didn't really enjoy those stories to be honest.
I mean, the game should have a strong supporting cast, and one of those could certainly be a "Big Good" character who is an important hero in their own right and does all the governing and other important stuff that's not really good gameplay, but the story should be the player's story (or perhaps the players', if you prefer)
You could do a story where there's an NPC who is the big prophecied hero and thus gets all the credit, while secretly the players are the ones who actually do most of the work, that could be fun.
The player should not be relegated to observer, they should always be a focus of the scene. That doesn't mean that the world revolves around them, only that the story does.
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Post by shechinah on Jun 14, 2017 22:17:46 GMT
If they were going to do this I think they would still need to acknowledge the players to a pretty good degree though, even if they weren't the main star of the show. I've seen over the years Blizzard having the complaints about WoW of the players being "kill stolen" by NPCs who were given credit in lore for raid bosses that we defeated.
In my experience most players don't like doing all the hard work and then having the game praise some random NPC for it.To be fair, players are more cool with it when the NPC given credit has been contributing throughout the fight. In my experience, the annoyance over kill stealing is mostly directed towards NPCs that have done nothing and only appeared at the end of the fight to land the killing blow. This also applies to NPCs that alone gets the credit despite the players canonically having been present as an army that contributed and help make the kill possible.
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Post by shechinah on Jun 14, 2017 22:19:32 GMT
I think you're confusing the player being the main character and the player being in charge. Our character will be the protagonist of the story they choose to tell. I doubt they will be in charge of the fort. Going by the name "Freelancer," it would seem we are mercenaries. I would guess they'll go the Destiny route, we aren't special we just happen to get embroiled in events I think freelancers are confirmed by a mention as being mercenaries which makes sense because, as you, say they're named freelancers. If they're in control of the fort then I don't think they'd qualify as freelancers.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 14, 2017 22:25:34 GMT
It's just an example, one that motivates why we might be doing shitwork errands while still making sense, storywise. Pick whatever archetype you prefer -- mysterious alien that you rescue from a crash, or a little lost orphan girl, or the avatar of the planet's spirit, or the Bavarian Illuminati -- doesn't matter. The larger point is, if the protagonist in an NPC, the story can be told and progressed more naturally, without trying to manipulate the player (who is one of several friends) into playing the role the story requires. The NPC could be a very dynamic character -- think Indiana Jones or Diana -- that's in every scene or main quest stage that matters, out in the world kicking alien ass and taking names, and you're right there with the hero, either helping, hurting, or staying the hell out of the way, your choice. ...I still don't get why this is a protagonist role. Having another character's orders or problems driving the plot doesn't make them the protagonist. If you mean we will develop our characters in the context of being a subordinate , I can get behind that, but I don't see how this means our character is not the protagonist. It will still be our choices and our exploits that we follow even if there is another character making higher level decisions driving the plot. I see. If your definition of protagonist is, "the character the player controls", sure, what I'm saying won't make sense. And absolutely I believe that my character should develop through my interaction with other characters, NPC or otherwise, in whatever context makes sense, it doesn't have to be a leadership role. I just don't agree that the protagonist and the PC are necessarily the same thing, from the point of view of storytelling. Consider Tony Stark in the original Iron Man movie. That's apropos, given the Javelin suits. Do you agree that Tony Stark was the protagonist of that movie? Say we translate that movie to a game, story beat for story beat, shot for shot, explosion for explosion, no change to the plot at all. The only thing that changes is that somehow, through some hand wavy method, hidden video or whatnot, Pepper Potts gets to see every scene that the audience sees, even when she's not in the scene herself. The character you control as a player is Pepper Potts. Your actions are more-or-less limited to what Pepper does in the movie, though you might have total freedom in making choices that aren't plot important, like what to have for breakfast. Are you the protagonist in that scenario? Has the story been made less interesting in some way if you are not playing the protagonist? I'll grant you, it might not be a very interesting game to play, but you can't argue the story itself is somehow damaged or made uninteresting by not playing the protagonist, given the way I set it up. It's the exact same story as the movie.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 14, 2017 22:34:12 GMT
So like Oblivion, and Guild Wars 2? I didn't really enjoy those stories to be honest. I don't know from GW2, but if you mean TES:Oblivion, isn't the player the Hero? They are even given that title, at least twice. I'm not sure I agree. Should the player be able to create their own story? Absolutely. Should the player be saddled with the burden of driving the main story? That I don't think is the only or even best way to tell a story in a game. I love that idea! I agree that the player shouldn't only ever be an observer, but I think the idea that the player's character must always be the focus of the story is exactly that troublesome burden I mentioned above. It's the old player agency vs. story conundrum.
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Post by Wulfram on Jun 14, 2017 23:56:41 GMT
I see. If your definition of protagonist is, "the character the player controls", sure, what I'm saying won't make sense. And absolutely I believe that my character should develop through my interaction with other characters, NPC or otherwise, in whatever context makes sense, it doesn't have to be a leadership role. I just don't agree that the protagonist and the PC are necessarily the same thing, from the point of view of storytelling. Consider Tony Stark in the original Iron Man movie. That's apropos, given the Javelin suits. Do you agree that Tony Stark was the protagonist of that movie? Say we translate that movie to a game, story beat for story beat, shot for shot, explosion for explosion, no change to the plot at all. The only thing that changes is that somehow, through some hand wavy method, hidden video or whatnot, Pepper Potts gets to see every scene that the audience sees, even when she's not in the scene herself. The character you control as a player is Pepper Potts. Your actions are more-or-less limited to what Pepper does in the movie, though you might have total freedom in making choices that aren't plot important, like what to have for breakfast. Are you the protagonist in that scenario? Has the story been made less interesting in some way if you are not playing the protagonist? I'll grant you, it might not be a very interesting game to play, but you can't argue the story itself is somehow damaged or made uninteresting by not playing the protagonist, given the way I set it up. It's the exact same story as the movie. It might be the same story, but it would be a much worse telling of that story. Because you've just alienated your audience, the players, who are annoyed at being stuck as some side character. Your protagonist is now some annoying prat with a stupid beard who the game is annoyingly obsessed with and keeps trying to force you to focus on, leaving you baffled as to why they lumped you with this lady. What you could do is something like the Star Trek:TNG episode "Lower Decks", which tells a story from the point of view of some lower ranking officers on the Enterprise. But the key is, that for that episode those characters are the protagonists, the cameras follow them, mostly, and they get the character development. The normal main characters are still doing what they normally do, but they're not who the story is interested in for once.
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 15, 2017 0:04:23 GMT
So like Oblivion, and Guild Wars 2? I didn't really enjoy those stories to be honest. I don't know from GW2, but if you mean TES:Oblivion, isn't the player the Hero? They are even given that title, at least twice. I'm not sure I agree. Should the player be able to create their own story? Absolutely. Should the player be saddled with the burden of driving the main story? That I don't think is the only or even best way to tell a story in a game. I love that idea! I agree that the player shouldn't only ever be an observer, but I think the idea that the player's character must always be the focus of the story is exactly that troublesome burden I mentioned above. It's the old player agency vs. story conundrum. I just really would like you to explain how the player is not the focus of the story here. That's what I'm not getting. We are the focus of the story by virtue of our character being the one we control and whose choices we make. Even if there's a larger story, our story is the one we're playing not that one. We are still the protagonist. Frankly I don't really get what the benefit it, what "burden" is this relieving us of?
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absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 15, 2017 2:58:29 GMT
Do you mean like Yuna in final fantasy x?
The player character was still a main character and a protagonist but was protecting another main character yuna the chosen one character who had the special power needed to defeat the bad guy.
I think the character your playing is pretty much always going to be a protagonist because your seeing the story from their point of view and their always going to be a main character because their the character onscreen the most (usually always). But you can have more than main/major character, so yeah we could have an npc whose also one.
Not being in charge makes sense for a multiplayer game. But i think i'd prefer there being no chosen one, pc or otherwise. Theres plenty of ways to get involved with a main plot without destiny or special powers. Given the nature of this game and the word 'freelancers', because we were hired to is a perfectly good reason.
I'm pretty much neutral on there being another protagonist whose an npc or not. As long as I'm involved in the plot and not just passively watching.
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Heimdall
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heimdall
Heimdall
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HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 15, 2017 12:13:27 GMT
...I still don't get why this is a protagonist role. Having another character's orders or problems driving the plot doesn't make them the protagonist. If you mean we will develop our characters in the context of being a subordinate , I can get behind that, but I don't see how this means our character is not the protagonist. It will still be our choices and our exploits that we follow even if there is another character making higher level decisions driving the plot. I see. If your definition of protagonist is, "the character the player controls", sure, what I'm saying won't make sense. And absolutely I believe that my character should develop through my interaction with other characters, NPC or otherwise, in whatever context makes sense, it doesn't have to be a leadership role. I just don't agree that the protagonist and the PC are necessarily the same thing, from the point of view of storytelling. Consider Tony Stark in the original Iron Man movie. That's apropos, given the Javelin suits. Do you agree that Tony Stark was the protagonist of that movie? Say we translate that movie to a game, story beat for story beat, shot for shot, explosion for explosion, no change to the plot at all. The only thing that changes is that somehow, through some hand wavy method, hidden video or whatnot, Pepper Potts gets to see every scene that the audience sees, even when she's not in the scene herself. The character you control as a player is Pepper Potts. Your actions are more-or-less limited to what Pepper does in the movie, though you might have total freedom in making choices that aren't plot important, like what to have for breakfast. Are you the protagonist in that scenario? Has the story been made less interesting in some way if you are not playing the protagonist? I'll grant you, it might not be a very interesting game to play, but you can't argue the story itself is somehow damaged or made uninteresting by not playing the protagonist, given the way I set it up. It's the exact same story as the movie. I was more thinking of it in terms of that, we are the protagonist of the story because this is the story of the guy who helped the chosen one. We are still the focus of the story even if our role in events is smaller, as I see it. Pepper would be the protagonist of a story following her even if she had a smaller role in larger events. But I see what you mean. I think that's an interesting story idea, one I'd like to see done in a single player experience, but I'm not sure it would work that well in this context. I can already foresee a lot of players, especially in the shooter crowd, complaining about an NPC getting to do all the interesting stuff instead of them. Or, as previously noted, angry that NPC's seem to be taking credit for their achievements.
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Aug 30, 2023 16:01:17 GMT
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PapaCharlie9
3,851
August 2016
papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 15, 2017 16:25:33 GMT
I think we've found some common ground for understanding based on what you said in the post immediately before this one, but let me go back to your earlier reply and elaborate a little more and answer your question here. I just really would like you to explain how the player is not the focus of the story here. That's what I'm not getting. We are the focus of the story by virtue of our character being the one we control and whose choices we make. Even if there's a larger story, our story is the one we're playing not that one. We are still the protagonist. Frankly I don't really get what the benefit it, what "burden" is this relieving us of? It's a burden because my degrees of freedom in interpreting my PC are restricted to what the story demands. If my character conception, at CC time, doesn't exactly fit the role the story has waiting for me, I'm going to be pretty frustrated. Let's use DAI as an example, since it's familiar to both of us. What if, during WEWH, I wanted to rule Orlais myself? Shouldn't I be able to arrange for assassinations, exile, or imprisonment for all three contenders, leaving the throne open to me? Or maybe I just want Briala on the throne, front and center? Or maybe I want Orlais thrown into civil war, with no ruler at all, so my Fereldan buddies can invade? Or maybe I don't want to go to the Winter Palace in the first palce and let Orlais sort itself out? No. I'm confined to the choices written for my PC. If I had conceived of my character at CC time as a comedic clown, who accomplishes things through humor only, never violence, how does the game help my realize that concept? It thwarts it at almost every step in WEWH. Of course, games can't support every choice imaginable. I'm not saying every game should have some strong AI that can adapt to any random choice. But why must the choices be so severely limited in WEWH? There's not a single selfish, patriotic (to Fereldan), comedic, romantic (seduce one of the contenders), etc., option allowed. Who's to say that those choices don't make a better story for me, in that moment? It seems to be a law of nature that, the stronger and more impactful the story, the fewer degrees of freedom (fewer choices and less variety of choices, particularly at the extremes) allowed the player. This is the player agency vs. story conundrum. That's not to say I don't like the story as written for WEWH. I just don't want to be the protagonist of that story every single time I make a run through WEWH. Been there, done that. Let me be someone else for a change, wandering the grounds picking pockets and generally making a nuisance of myself, all as a distraction, or furthering the goals of the Inquisitor (an NPC in this scenario, mind you), or maybe solely for selfish reasons. So here's a radical idea. Consider a game where complete runs make sense, like Skyrim and DAI (it's not clear to me that "run" makes sense in the context of Anthem, it might be an evergreen world, with no beginning or end for a given character). That game has a "default" main story, with a plot and character arc, as you would expect. Your first run, your PC is the protagonist of that default story and you get to experience the full story. Great, even if you stop playing there, you got a good experience. But let's say you decide to do a second run. In your second run, you can either be the protagonist of the main story again, or, a supporting character, who can influence the character arc of the protagonist, deflecting the default arc into another path, at your option. The plot changes under your influence. You know how the story is "supposed" to go, since you experienced it in your first run, but your choices nudge it into a different path. If you want to insist that your PC is the protagonist of a new story in that case, and the NPC "leading role" is just some other character, that's fine -- I think that's mostly a matter of semantics, as long as we understand each other. (This isn't an entirely original idea. Nier:Automata has multiple "runs" built into the game, with multiple endings. Route A to Ending A has you play one character of a duo. In Route B, you play the side-kick through the same overlapping timeline, and see some scenes you didn't see in A, because the side-kick was pulled away to deal with some problem off-screen. In B, you get to see what that off-screen problem was. It's neat!) The point is that, now, as a supporting character, you can disconnect from the main story altogether if you want. It will run it's own course while you do your own thing. Or, you can influence the story by choices you make, deflecting it into a new path. Maybe a happier outcome, maybe a darker one. Nothing is sacrificed in terms of the main plot, but now you get a different point-of-view on the story, maybe see it from a different character's point of view, or different location. Maybe you operate behind the scenes to change the outcome of some encounter, maybe you don't do any of that. I think all that is feasible with today's technology and budgets. More degrees of freedom for the player, including opt-ing out of the main story altogether, without sacrificing that story, since it has a life of it's own in the game.
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Heimdall
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heimdall
Heimdall
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HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 15, 2017 16:52:20 GMT
It's a burden because my degrees of freedom in interpreting my PC are restricted to what the story demands. Let's use DAI as an example, since it's familiar to both of us. What if, during WEWH, I wanted to rule Orlais myself? Shouldn't I be able to arrange for assassinations, exile, or imprisonment for all three contenders, leaving the throne open to me? Or maybe I just want Briala on the throne, front and center? Or maybe I want Orlais thrown into civil war, with no ruler at all, so my Fereldan buddies can invade? Or maybe I don't want to go to the Winter Palace in the first palce and let Orlais sort itself out? No. I'm confined to the choices written for my PC. Of course, games can't support every choice imaginable. I'm not saying every game should have some strong AI that can adapt to any random choice. But why must the choices be so severely limited in WEWH? There's not a single selfish, patriotic (to Fereldan), comedic, romantic (seduce one of the contenders), etc., allowed. Who's to say that those choices don't make a better story for me, in that moment? I see some of what you mean, and this is a weakness of scripted storytelling in a game in that it can only accommodate so many results and their impact on the broader narrative. Hence the need to limit the results to those that lead to a few that jive with the wider narrative. However, I think this is partly a problem of Bioware being too eager to give in-universe power to the player. Sometimes I wonder if Inquisition would have been better if they had given the Inquisitor less unilateral power. I want them to tell stories a bit closer to the ground, which was actually one of my favorite things about DA2. I don't actually mind Bioware restricting some choices as long as there's a good in universe response to it, like a superior or someone more powerful that blocks you from doing something foolish or dangerous. The ability to express the choice is very valuable in and of itself. It sounds feasible in theory, but it also sounds quite resource intensive. With all the choice and variable paths the base experience should already have that sounds like building 1.5 games instead of one. I'm wary of that, and how it could result in fewer variations in each respective path. Having the 'sidekick' experience in addition to the protagonist role would make it far more palatable to many (Not just shooter fans, I had forgotten how many complained about Hawke not being heroic enough in DA2). But as a standalone experience I can see a lot of people feeling like they were cheated out of being the "real" hero. Still, I like the idea of a story where we follow the exploits of the chosen one's squire instead of the big hero themselves.
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dropzofcrimzon
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November 2016
dropzofcrimzon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
DropzOfCrimzon
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jun 16, 2017 1:03:09 GMT
Because nothing screams "buy this game" like "BTW...you are not even the protagonist or the driving force of this story, your are just an annex, and we did this to appease those who have been making fun of us for years because we, like most other rpg makers, place you in the role of someone special mockingly called "the chosen one""
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