Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jun 20, 2017 16:03:38 GMT
I much prefer a limited ability bar. I think of it like a trading card game: you're building your hand/deck out of a selection of abilities; each with specific strengths and weaknesses. Ultimately the goal is to find abilities that both work well with each other and with your playstyle. A card game isn't much fun if you have the entire collection of cards available at all times - it just becomes a game of hunt and peck to find the ability you need amongst the dozens you have. I don't want to play a game; I want to play a character. More options lets me play a wider range of more interesting characters.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Jun 20, 2017 18:30:00 GMT
NWN set the standard. Anything less than 48 hotkeys is too few. I much prefer a limited ability bar. I think of it like a trading card game: you're building your hand/deck out of a selection of abilities; each with specific strengths and weaknesses. Ultimately the goal is to find abilities that both work well with each other and with your playstyle. A card game isn't much fun if you have the entire collection of cards available at all times - it just becomes a game of hunt and peck to find the ability you need amongst the dozens you have. I admit 3 is on the low side though, I usually prefer 4-5 minimum, but well see how it plays out. Like I said before, the ability slots probably dirwctly correlate to your left arm, back, and right arm equipment. For example the mortar/cluster missiles were back mounted, but the nova ground slam may have been something equipped to the right arm - a shockwave device or some such. If it is setup that way, it will feel ergonomic and natural in battle. Put a flamethrower on one arm perhaps, a middle launcher on the back, a repair device on the other arm, there's your 3 abilities. On top of those, you still have potential default melee attacks, equipped guns, and movement abilities. 3 isn't just "low", it's downright anorexic! I mean, just look at MEA: primer, detonator, defensive skill. Shootshootshoot. Boooooring! Give me power wheels! Give me bars of abilities ten wide! Give me situational powers! Cycling through the same three abilities is just a dull MMO fight.
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RoboticWater
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Post by RoboticWater on Jun 20, 2017 19:39:08 GMT
I much prefer a limited ability bar. I think of it like a trading card game: you're building your hand/deck out of a selection of abilities; each with specific strengths and weaknesses. Ultimately the goal is to find abilities that both work well with each other and with your playstyle. A card game isn't much fun if you have the entire collection of cards available at all times - it just becomes a game of hunt and peck to find the ability you need amongst the dozens you have. I admit 3 is on the low side though, I usually prefer 4-5 minimum, but well see how it plays out. Like I said before, the ability slots probably dirwctly correlate to your left arm, back, and right arm equipment. For example the mortar/cluster missiles were back mounted, but the nova ground slam may have been something equipped to the right arm - a shockwave device or some such. If it is setup that way, it will feel ergonomic and natural in battle. Put a flamethrower on one arm perhaps, a middle launcher on the back, a repair device on the other arm, there's your 3 abilities. On top of those, you still have potential default melee attacks, equipped guns, and movement abilities. 3 isn't just "low", it's downright anorexic! I mean, just look at MEA: primer, detonator, defensive skill. Shootshootshoot. Boooooring! Give me power wheels! Give me bars of abilities ten wide! Give me situational powers! Cycling through the same three abilities is just a dull MMO fight. I'd argue that this is an issue of quality, not a quantity. If BioWare's objective is to maximize agency, then yes, they could inflate their power roster with a variety of similar powers that simply effect different defenses or have incredibly similar dam/stun effects (e.g. 20% dam/5% stun vs. 5% dam/20% stun), but I'd argue that most RPG have an abundance of superfluous powers that do only a single thing. The most interesting part of tabletop RPG isn't when I cast a fire spell at an enemy, but when I use that same fire spell to power a hot air balloon. BioWare also aren't just trying to maximize agency, nor should they, because maximizing agency in an action game is usually detrimental if you don't also minimize information overload. In the heat of battle, most people aren't able to mentally process the usage of more than a handful of abilities. The best solution then would be to maximize the utility of each individual power, either by giving that power multiple attack levels (charged vs. instantly cast), situational environmental effects like knocking over a boulder onto enemies with missiles, unique combo effects like the ones in DA:O (i.e. not just an extra spurt of damage), or just generally having a number of similar uses like Half Life 2's Gravity Gun (or most other manipulation powers in games). That way, the player only needs to remember a few abilities and combo effects while still having a healthy level of agency. Of course, nothing we've seen from Anthem thus far indicates that BioWare have done this. I don't really expect them to either. It seems the only people who care about per-ability versatility are Nintendo and developers of immersive sims. The fact still remains that I don't think that a bigger ability bar really solves anything. Hell, MMO can have fairly sizable ability bars and still be completely dull. What makes them fun is using your abilities in tandem with a party. In any case, Anthem seems to be an action game with a set of half-decent powers, a good-looking play space, and a fairly robust movement system. That's more than enough to hold its own against most shooters. No one's going to criticize Halo for not having an ability bar (no one who actually likes shooters, anyway), so 3 abilities in Anthem is perfectly acceptable if it can deliver on enemy variety, level design, and set-pieces.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 21, 2017 3:20:15 GMT
Quality > quantity.
This game is not Mass Effect, it is not Dragon Age, it does not need a Power Wheel. It doesn't need 17 ossum abiliteez, it needs laser focus and professional execution.
If Nu Bioware is capable of delivering the latter, it won't matter if this game is 1) not an RPG, and 2) not a game I would have normally been interested from any company, 3) let alone the self-proclaimed storytellers that Bioware says they are... 4) that I bought no DAI DLC 5) didn't buy AndersMeta...
I will watch this one. It was new.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jun 21, 2017 8:10:46 GMT
3 isn't just "low", it's downright anorexic! I mean, just look at MEA: primer, detonator, defensive skill. Shootshootshoot. Boooooring! Give me power wheels! Give me bars of abilities ten wide! Give me situational powers! Cycling through the same three abilities is just a dull MMO fight. I'd argue that this is an issue of quality, not a quantity. If BioWare's objective is to maximize agency, then yes, they could inflate their power roster with a variety of similar powers that simply effect different defenses or have incredibly similar dam/stun effects (e.g. 20% dam/5% stun vs. 5% dam/20% stun), but I'd argue that most RPG have an abundance of superfluous powers that do only a single thing. The most interesting part of tabletop RPG isn't when I cast a fire spell at an enemy, but when I use that same fire spell to power a hot air balloon. BioWare also aren't just trying to maximize agency, nor should they, because maximizing agency in an action game is usually detrimental if you don't also minimize information overload. In the heat of battle, most people aren't able to mentally process the usage of more than a handful of abilities. The best solution then would be to maximize the utility of each individual power, either by giving that power multiple attack levels (charged vs. instantly cast), situational environmental effects like knocking over a boulder onto enemies with missiles, unique combo effects like the ones in DA:O (i.e. not just an extra spurt of damage), or just generally having a number of similar uses like Half Life 2's Gravity Gun (or most other manipulation powers in games). That way, the player only needs to remember a few abilities and combo effects while still having a healthy level of agency. Of course, nothing we've seen from Anthem thus far indicates that BioWare have done this. I don't really expect them to either. It seems the only people who care about per-ability versatility are Nintendo and developers of immersive sims. The fact still remains that I don't think that a bigger ability bar really solves anything. Hell, MMO can have fairly sizable ability bars and still be completely dull. What makes them fun is using your abilities in tandem with a party. In any case, Anthem seems to be an action game with a set of half-decent powers, a good-looking play space, and a fairly robust movement system. That's more than enough to hold its own against most shooters. No one's going to criticize Halo for not having an ability bar (no one who actually likes shooters, anyway), so 3 abilities in Anthem is perfectly acceptable if it can deliver on enemy variety, level design, and set-pieces. Interesting point of view. I'm going to align with this. It would be much more proper if you can affix 3 equipment/powers to your javelin, and each of these powers could be levelled up in multiple ways. Eg the mortar we saw: do you want to go for a larger carpet bombing area, or more powerful missiles, which could clear rocks?Do you want to be able to fire electric missiles which stun the large AT-AT's? Do you want a really long distance launcher for snipe-mortaring? Do you want seeking mortars? Do you want them to fallinto a minefield or even work as underwater mines? DO you want to be able to spin your javelin in a 360° circle and have an AOE effect around you instantly? These all rely on 1 ability, but make it have multiple uses. This is a lot more interesting than having 10 abilities of which you can only use 1 in a slot.
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Post by goishen on Jun 21, 2017 12:21:24 GMT
3 isn't just "low", it's downright anorexic! I mean, just look at MEA: primer, detonator, defensive skill. Shootshootshoot. Boooooring! Give me power wheels! Give me bars of abilities ten wide! Give me situational powers! Cycling through the same three abilities is just a dull MMO fight. It's emaciated.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 2, 2017 16:23:30 GMT
A perfect vanguard for me would have been charge, nova, shockwave, annihilation field, lance, turbocharge. I would prefer Charge, Reave, AF, Nova, and I'll give you the MEA powers of Lance and TC. You can prime and detonate at all ranges, at will, often doing double explosions to the same target in seconds. If we get that sort of gameplay in Anthem though, it will be a major WTF. This game will have its own identity, ine way or the other. I do hope combat is all TPS.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 3, 2017 12:01:30 GMT
A perfect vanguard for me would have been charge, nova, shockwave, annihilation field, lance, turbocharge. I would prefer Charge, Reave, AF, Nova, and I'll give you the MEA powers of Lance and TC. You can prime and detonate at all ranges, at will, often doing double explosions to the same target in seconds. If we get that sort of gameplay in Anthem though, it will be a major WTF. This game will have its own identity, ine way or the other. I do hope combat is all TPS. I doubt it. I bet it will be mostly "combat powers". Recharge, reload, RoF, offboard artillery, shields, supply pylon - that kind of stuff. And grenades.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 3, 2017 13:11:44 GMT
I would prefer Charge, Reave, AF, Nova, and I'll give you the MEA powers of Lance and TC. You can prime and detonate at all ranges, at will, often doing double explosions to the same target in seconds. If we get that sort of gameplay in Anthem though, it will be a major WTF. This game will have its own identity, ine way or the other. I do hope combat is all TPS. I doubt it. I bet it will be mostly "combat powers". Recharge, reload, RoF, offboard artillery, shields, supply pylon - that kind of stuff. And grenades. 'Pilot Eject'
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 3, 2017 13:13:27 GMT
I doubt it. I bet it will be mostly "combat powers". Recharge, reload, RoF, offboard artillery, shields, supply pylon - that kind of stuff. And grenades. 'Pilot Eject' "Mash button to romance player"
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 3, 2017 13:26:16 GMT
"Mash button to romance player" 'Quick, hit the "Kawaiii"-button!'
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 3, 2017 13:44:09 GMT
I predict a 4th ability. It's pulling a trigger to cause 'pew'. It will be mainly used, because all the different triggers to pull make all different pew and it will be a long arduous task to find all the triggers and ways to pew, but that's what thew want us to do so we pay microbucks to hear a different pew.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 3, 2017 14:02:18 GMT
I would prefer Charge, Reave, AF, Nova, and I'll give you the MEA powers of Lance and TC. You can prime and detonate at all ranges, at will, often doing double explosions to the same target in seconds. If we get that sort of gameplay in Anthem though, it will be a major WTF. This game will have its own identity, ine way or the other. I do hope combat is all TPS. I doubt it. I bet it will be mostly "combat powers". Recharge, reload, RoF, offboard artillery, shields, supply pylon - that kind of stuff. And grenades. this would be a disappointment, as truly then it would be Mass Effect reskinned.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 3, 2017 14:04:29 GMT
I doubt it. I bet it will be mostly "combat powers". Recharge, reload, RoF, offboard artillery, shields, supply pylon - that kind of stuff. And grenades. this would be a disappointment, as truly then it would be Mass Effect reskinned. That's what happens when you just play Marksmen and Turians instead of Justicars.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 3, 2017 17:20:20 GMT
this would be a disappointment, as truly then it would be Mass Effect reskinned. That's what happens when you just play Marksmen and Turians instead of Justicars. Don't blame me My Justicar was my first love, and fittingly she's my last. Started with her as a no-pull Soldier, because I was terrible. Evolved to a Bubble Girl, had great fun with that for a couple years. Now she carries a Phasic Falcon and pulls all the things. She is the best
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ApocAlypsE
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Post by ApocAlypsE on Jul 3, 2017 18:49:02 GMT
This is a different game than any Mass Effect game. Too early to tell if 3 abilities are enough. From what it seems, it's maybe a bunch of abilities and an ultimate.
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 3, 2017 20:48:00 GMT
This is a different game than any Mass Effect game. Too early to tell if 3 abilities are enough. From what it seems, it's maybe a bunch of abilities and an ultimate. I'm inclined to think this will be equipment slot related. Like: one of the three abilities is the back armament slot (missiles, the mortar)
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 3, 2017 20:57:24 GMT
This is a different game than any Mass Effect game. Too early to tell if 3 abilities are enough. From what it seems, it's maybe a bunch of abilities and an ultimate. I'm inclined to think this will be equipment slot related. Like: one of the three abilities is the back armament slot (missiles, the mortar) Could be. It'd be all RNG drops I imagine. Designed for cash to spend. In a full price game.
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 3, 2017 21:23:53 GMT
I'm inclined to think this will be equipment slot related. Like: one of the three abilities is the back armament slot (missiles, the mortar) Could be. It'd be all RNG drops I imagine. Designed for cash to spend. In a full price game. Why? Destiny has no need to do that, I don't see why Bioware would. It isn't like there's a requirement for the genre.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 3, 2017 23:03:05 GMT
Could be. It'd be all RNG drops I imagine. Designed for cash to spend. In a full price game. Why? Destiny has no need to do that, I don't see why Bioware would. It isn't like there's a requirement for the genre. Latest reports indicate that this EA Star Wars 2 shooter will have loot drops with better gear and the crates are buyable. And that is PvP. They give a shit if a game "needs" it or if it's a "requirement for the genre" - it's a business.
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 3, 2017 23:27:44 GMT
Why? Destiny has no need to do that, I don't see why Bioware would. It isn't like there's a requirement for the genre. Latest reports indicate that this EA Star Wars 2 shooter will have loot drops with better gear and the crates are buyable. And that is PvP. They give a shit if a game "needs" it or if it's a "requirement for the genre" - it's a business. Sure, but so what? Destiny let's you buy loot boxes with real money too, but you can also get them by doing weekly activities and the usual PvP drops get you pretty good drops on your own. And much of the stuff you get from them is purely cosmetic. Unless you're compelled to collect everything, they're not at all required. required. They can be implemented without ruining the experience.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 4, 2017 5:29:59 GMT
Latest reports indicate that this EA Star Wars 2 shooter will have loot drops with better gear and the crates are buyable. And that is PvP. They give a shit if a game "needs" it or if it's a "requirement for the genre" - it's a business. Sure, but so what? Destiny let's you buy loot boxes with real money too, but you can also get them by doing weekly activities and the usual PvP drops get you pretty good drops on your own. And much of the stuff you get from them is purely cosmetic. Unless you're compelled to collect everything, they're not at all required. required. They can be implemented without ruining the experience. A company that plans to introduce p2w in their full price AAA games is well on track on the train to ruining the experience. I'm not so optimistic.
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 4, 2017 9:41:53 GMT
Sure, but so what? Destiny let's you buy loot boxes with real money too, but you can also get them by doing weekly activities and the usual PvP drops get you pretty good drops on your own. And much of the stuff you get from them is purely cosmetic. Unless you're compelled to collect everything, they're not at all required. required. They can be implemented without ruining the experience. A company that plans to introduce p2w in their full price AAA games is well on track on the train to ruining the experience. I'm not so optimistic. I don't believe implementing loot boxes is inherently p2w. And don't really blame them for implementing some form of microtransaction. Monetizing an online game is a challenge and there aren't many other ways to do it. As long as the items are something you can get in other ways and/or non-critical I don't see the issue. But you seem to have made up your mind on this so I'll leave it at that.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 4, 2017 9:59:52 GMT
A company that plans to introduce p2w in their full price AAA games is well on track on the train to ruining the experience. I'm not so optimistic. I don't believe implementing loot boxes is inherently p2w. And don't really blame them for implementing some form of microtransaction. Monetizing an online game is a challenge and there aren't many other ways to do it. As long as the items are something you can get in other ways and/or non-critical I don't see the issue. But you seem to have made up your mind on this so I'll leave it at that. Yes, I think we already disagree about having to monetise a full price game in the first place.
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 4, 2017 10:34:25 GMT
I don't believe implementing loot boxes is inherently p2w. And don't really blame them for implementing some form of microtransaction. Monetizing an online game is a challenge and there aren't many other ways to do it. As long as the items are something you can get in other ways and/or non-critical I don't see the issue. But you seem to have made up your mind on this so I'll leave it at that. Yes, I think we already disagree about having to monetise a full price game in the first place. They're monetizing the online service being provided in a non-mandatory way you can easily avoid while still enjoying the game, but whatever.
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