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Post by Mark7 on Jul 2, 2017 10:10:08 GMT
So because one person said somethin ,the whole game implied it as well? Can't say to understand the logic of it.
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Finvola
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Post by Finvola on Jul 2, 2017 18:32:25 GMT
It's more than just Alistair. When you speak to Ser Donnall he tells you about the urn and tells you that Eamon is sick and Ser Bryant talks about it a bit as well. Those read to me like suggestions that Redcliffe should be your next stop after Lothering. Of course Ser Bryant also talks about trouble coming from the Circle, but it does seem as if you're being nudged towards going to Redcliffe next.
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Post by XJlock on Jul 2, 2017 20:18:14 GMT
Whether the game insisted on going to Redcliffe first or not, it seemed a better investment of time was to go to the Circle Tower in order too quickly rack up the attribute points dispersed in the Fade.
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Post by Iddy on Jul 3, 2017 18:44:25 GMT
So because one person said somethin ,the whole game implied it as well? Can't say to understand the logic of it. "One". Do you know how to count? Or perhaps you didn't read the OP, since seems to be a common habit.
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Post by fylimar on Jul 3, 2017 20:08:06 GMT
It seems a bit like the game is pushing you to do Redcliffe first. There is a lot of mention of the arl, the urn, the knights... But I seldom do, what I'm told, so I did go to the mage tower first on my first playthrough and T still do that in my ... I don't know, 10th playthrough, because Wynne is essential in my group. I guess, Redcliffe and the urn is doable as first quest, if you are a veteran DA player, but for someone new to the franchise, it would be hell. I just did the urn quest today again and it is a pain in my backside - I hate those drakes and the tons of mages stunning you.
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Post by Finvola on Jul 3, 2017 20:53:36 GMT
Right, that's exactly what my friend and I were talking about since she's relatively new to the series.She went to Redcliffe first because she thought that's where she was supposed to go based on what was said in Lothering and ran into a bit of difficulty once she got to Redcliffe and asked me for advice. She asked why there were so many suggestions about going there first because she was a little in over her head.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2017 22:51:40 GMT
There is one good reason to go there first, as I found out on my not-so-good-of-a-warden playthrough.
If you leave Redcliffe until last then you're missing out on a valid reason to leave if you should wish to. I've let Redcliffe be destroyed once, and I RP'd it by thinking that my Warden went to Redcliffe to get help, but had heard about the plight of the mages. She felt she had to get to the Circle a.s.a.p to help, and left Redcliffe to it's fate. However if you left Redcliffe till last then the Warden would have no good reason to leave, therefore denying the player a legitimate reason to not save the village. Whether you're going to do it or not it's an option in the game, and the devs have to give the player a decent reason to leave.
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Post by Mark7 on Jul 4, 2017 13:17:16 GMT
So because one person said somethin ,the whole game implied it as well? Can't say to understand the logic of it. "One". Do you know how to count? Or perhaps you didn't read the OP, since seems to be a common habit. I had the impression instead that you had the habit to start topics that makes little if no sense at all between this one and the other you had started in the past. The game doesn't imply to go to Redclieffe first,just because Alistair says something it doesn't mean that the whole game is telling you to go in Redclieffe first, just as Ser Donall that you've mentioned (which by the way it talks you about the Circle as well).Once again it seems to me people are reading what they want to read and claim to have found a sort of bias in the game even tough none of what they are saying correspond to the game implying anything.
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Post by secretrare on Jul 4, 2017 13:29:09 GMT
I didn't get that impression. It doesn't surprise me that Alistair talks about Redcliffe since his experience on that place is way higher than all the others locations you can go,so he offer advices about Redclieffe because it's the place he knows the most and because he doesn't know that Eamon is sick. As for the rest of the people that mention Redclieffe in Lothering, they are mostly knights or templars who know Eamon and so it is only logical that they mention him rather than say the Dalish or the Dwarfs,which are factions that they don't even know, that doesn't mean that the game is advicing to go in Redcleiffe however.
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Post by oyabun on Jul 4, 2017 13:44:08 GMT
There is one good reason to go there first, as I found out on my not-so-good-of-a-warden playthrough. If you leave Redcliffe until last then you're missing out on a valid reason to leave if you should wish to. I've let Redcliffe be destroyed once, and I RP'd it by thinking that my Warden went to Redcliffe to get help, but had heard about the plight of the mages. She felt she had to get to the Circle a.s.a.p to help, and left Redcliffe to it's fate. The developers haven't offered valid reasons to abandon Redcliffe either way. Even if you are gonna pick Redcliffe early on in the game, abandoning it doesn't seem a bright choice,because the game states that it takes one single day to save it,and one single day isn't enough time to deem it as a waste of time that wasn't dedicated to other quests. Redclieffe shouldn't be available that early in the game. If this plot was planned by Loghain as the game imply then Jowan should still be talking with Loghain while the Warden is in Lothering. Clearly the devs forgot to lock Redclieffe from the map like they did for the Alienage.
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Post by Iddy on Jul 4, 2017 14:41:25 GMT
"One". Do you know how to count? Or perhaps you didn't read the OP, since seems to be a common habit. I had the impression instead that you had the habit to start topics that makes little if no sense at all between this one and the other you had started in the past. The game doesn't imply to go to Redclieffe first,just because Alistair says something it doesn't mean that the whole game is telling you to go in Redclieffe first, just as Ser Donall that you've mentioned (which by the way it talks you about the Circle as well).Once again it seems to me people are reading what they want to read and claim to have found a sort of bias in the game even tough none of what they are saying correspond to the game implying anything. My sincerest apologies, I didn't mean to upset you so. I'd also like to include Ser Bryant, the bartender and the gossip npcs in that list. The game pretty much makes sure you're made aware that Arl Eamon may not be alive anymore if you wait too long to go to Redcliffe.
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Post by capn233 on Jul 4, 2017 16:50:45 GMT
I rarely go to Redcliffe first. My Dalish elves want to re-connect with the other Dalish. If anyone can convince the Dalish to honour an ancient treaty, it would be a Dalish Warden. Best to get the easy recruiting out of the way first. My dwarven wardens head for Orzammar. My casteless want to rub their new status in the other dwarves face and my noble wardens see it as a chance for redemption. My mage wardens head for the Circle. It's what they know and for much the same reason as the Dalish, above. Only the human noble wardens really ever see much sense in going to Redcliffe first. It is impossible to go to Orzammar first, though. Not impossible, but I agree difficult due to the two gating encounters (assuming not skipping them somehow). They are indeed trying to discourage you from that path. I could never really decide if that was a good or bad thing. For a solo it is quite helpful if you can get inside the door since purchasing Lifegiver makes melee solo a whole lot more manageable, or even if you are still too poor, picking up Key To The City is still really useful. There is some other stuff you can buy that is ok to get, but not as big a priority early as health regen cutting poultice use lets you start accumulating wealth a bit easier. Precious Metals in theory is there, but if you haven't done the Tower it doesn't matter, and probably will be too poor for the buy in, and it is really best to do if you have decent coercion and pickpocketing before starting. Some of this is moot if you have Reaper's and allow yourself to sell it, but I didn't have that DLC when I did most of my runs, and then afterwards I would destroy it along with other DLC stuff early. Nightmare. Solo. With a dwarf commoner rogue. I've also played nightmare solo with an elf mage and an elf rogue. I have played Origins a lot. Mostly on normal with a team as the dialogues are the most fun for me. The most fun being the all ranger team with spiders as pets and Morrigan shapeshifted into the same. Arachnophilia ftw. That being said, I did not do it all at once. That quest line is more fun if you intersperse it with the others. So I typically do everything in town up to Jarvia, then go do something else, then complete Jarvia then go do something else, then do each bit in the Deep Roads as its own thing, with other adventures breaking up the claustrophobia. Heh, the easiest way to deal with the mercs solo, early, is just to walk past them on the left. Don't even need stealth, which is amusing. Loghain's emissaries or whatever you want to call them at the door were pretty annoying though. Somewhat expensive or extremely tedious to kill with my melee characters. Of course it is possible to intimidate them (I was always prioritizing other things, so didn't ever have the coercion to do it that early).
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Post by capn233 on Jul 4, 2017 16:54:52 GMT
Oh as for the topic, I always just figured it was mostly Alistair pushing for you to go there, and that was because of his connection to the Arl. Morrigan gives you the "great" advice of going directly after Loghain, which on the one hand is not very smart, but on the other Denerim is probably easier to go to early for some quick gold than late for a few reasons. None the least of which is that the annoying Desolate Highway encounter doesn't pop up if you go to Denerim, but is pretty likely if you go west from Lothering (Redcliffe or Tower).
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Post by Finvola on Jul 4, 2017 17:13:01 GMT
I'm trying to remember back to when I first played. I didn't go to Redcliffe, my first Warden was Dalish so my priority was to seek them out, but in the end I think I decided to go to the circle first then I went to the forest. I do see how it could be interpreted that Redcliffe is a priority and if you're a first time player you might think that the Arl will die if you don't follow up on that right away. Even when I've played not-so-nice Wardens I've always decided to defend the village because I like fighting and you get all that extra money from looting the militia soldiers. I'm also a person who likes to do side quests and I don't want to miss out on the notice board missions.
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Post by phoray on Jul 4, 2017 17:52:00 GMT
The gossip mongers outside the bar will talk about The Circle being overun by demons. Alistair's suggestion to go to Redcliffe ends with him admitting that he's personally invested in the outcome of Eamon and that Eamon may not even be able to help. Additionally, learning from the Templars/Knights in the Chantry that he's literally on his death bed is a DIS incentive. It is far more likely to help the Wardens to visit Eamon when he is better. And if he dies, when his heir has been suitably instated into the area.
All the above leads me to go to the Circle first, actually, which makes the decision about what to do with Conner a bit more free style when the Circle isn't a total question mark.
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Post by Hagoromo on Jul 4, 2017 17:52:10 GMT
I'd also like to include Ser Bryant, the bartender and the gossip npcs in that list. The game pretty much makes sure you're made aware that Arl Eamon may not be alive anymore if you wait too long to go to Redcliffe. If I'm not mistaken these same people talks about the circle and the demons as well.The bartenders and the people outside the tavern change the gossip everytime you talk to them. I think if you waste enough time in front of them they may even say what Loghain is doing in detail,how do they know I don't know.
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Post by phoray on Jul 4, 2017 18:55:22 GMT
I didn't get that impression. It doesn't surprise me that Alistair talks about Redcliffe since his experience on that place is way higher than all the others locations you can go,so he offer advices about Redclieffe because it's the place he knows the most and because he doesn't know that Eamon is sick. As for the rest of the people that mention Redclieffe in Lothering, they are mostly knights or templars who know Eamon and so it is only logical that they mention him rather than say the Dalish or the Dwarfs,which are factions that they don't even know, that doesn't mean that the game is advicing to go in Redcleiffe however. Additionally, I don't think I've ever heard a single line from gossip mongers abuot the Dalish. They are reclusive, and so their problems are kept very close to the vest and/or people don't give a shit about them. The first time I hear about the problems in Orzamaar is from Bodahn who hears it from other traders on the road.
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Post by mike3207 on Jul 5, 2017 1:40:54 GMT
I didn't get that impression. It doesn't surprise me that Alistair talks about Redcliffe since his experience on that place is way higher than all the others locations you can go,so he offer advices about Redclieffe because it's the place he knows the most and because he doesn't know that Eamon is sick. As for the rest of the people that mention Redclieffe in Lothering, they are mostly knights or templars who know Eamon and so it is only logical that they mention him rather than say the Dalish or the Dwarfs,which are factions that they don't even know, that doesn't mean that the game is advicing to go in Redcleiffe however. Additionally, I don't think I've ever heard a single line from gossip mongers abuot the Dalish. They are reclusive, and so their problems are kept very close to the vest and/or people don't give a shit about them. The first time I hear about the problems in Orzamaar is from Bodahn who hears it from other traders on the road. Not the Dalish themselves-but you do hear about werewolves in the Brecilian Forest. Guess where the elves are-The Brecilian Forest. There might be a problem there.
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Post by phoray on Jul 5, 2017 1:42:02 GMT
Additionally, I don't think I've ever heard a single line from gossip mongers abuot the Dalish. They are reclusive, and so their problems are kept very close to the vest and/or people don't give a shit about them. The first time I hear about the problems in Orzamaar is from Bodahn who hears it from other traders on the road. Not the Dalish themselves-but you do hear about werewolves in the Brecilian Forest. Guess where the elves are-The Brecilian Forest. There might be a problem there. Cool. ^^ 4 PTs and I'd never heard it.
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Post by daelonduluc on Jul 5, 2017 15:54:45 GMT
When you arrive at Lothering and the three of you stop to discuss what to do next, there is a moment when Alistair says "We might even want to go to Redcliffe first". Then you have the bartender and Ser Donnal telling you about Arl Eamon's sickness. But what is the point? After doing Redcliffe, you'd have to immediately do the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest too. Roleplay wise it would be madness to simply leave Eamon in that state and go do other stuff. And the thing is, the Sacred Ashes quest isn't recommendable for the earliest levels. Just how early are you getting to Redcliffe and starting the Urn quests? As many times as I've played, I'm always at least level 10 or 11 before I start them (I do a few side-quests in Denerim before I go find the brother - I mean, why not?). Of course I always skip the little encounter with "Andraste" completely, so maybe I get off a bit easier.
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Post by daelonduluc on Jul 5, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
It's more than just Alistair. When you speak to Ser Donnall he tells you about the urn and tells you that Eamon is sick and Ser Bryant talks about it a bit as well. Those read to me like suggestions that Redcliffe should be your next stop after Lothering. Of course Ser Bryant also talks about trouble coming from the Circle, but it does seem as if you're being nudged towards going to Redcliffe next. While true, you do, of course, hear about it almost as soon as you arrive at Lothering, there have been plenty of playthroughs where I don't head there first, particularly the ones where I'm not getting along with our blond bubble head and liking Morrigan. Nothing really says you HAVE to do it first (although you are sort of being herded that way), but, ultimately, it's up to you and how you're RPing it. I like to do it first because I can level up multiple times doing it and it's not very difficult to do, but, there's nothing saying you have to.
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Post by Iddy on Jul 5, 2017 16:05:47 GMT
When you arrive at Lothering and the three of you stop to discuss what to do next, there is a moment when Alistair says "We might even want to go to Redcliffe first". Then you have the bartender and Ser Donnal telling you about Arl Eamon's sickness. But what is the point? After doing Redcliffe, you'd have to immediately do the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest too. Roleplay wise it would be madness to simply leave Eamon in that state and go do other stuff. And the thing is, the Sacred Ashes quest isn't recommendable for the earliest levels. Just how early are you getting to Redcliffe and starting the Urn quests? As many times as I've played, I'm always at least level 10 or 11 before I start them (I do a few side-quests in Denerim before I go find the brother - I mean, why not?). Of course I always skip the little encounter with "Andraste" completely, so maybe I get off a bit easier. I leave it for last, simply because it would be awkward to meet ghoul!Tamlen after Gauntlet!Tamlen says "We won't meet again".
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Post by phoray on Jul 5, 2017 22:49:12 GMT
Oh yeah- And Morrigan's comment about going straight to Denerim and Assasinating Loghain has merit, if you're a rogue or murdering type of character. Head canon an epic attempt at infiltration, then swallow your frustration as you realize you don't have the connections and opportunities lined up just yet. So, now it's time for plan B- so you do all the Denerim side quests to earn some money before making a "round Thedas" trip to actually fulfill the damn treaties.
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