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Post by Iddy on Jun 29, 2017 13:49:18 GMT
The Templars. It occurs to me that it doesn't make sense that the Warden wouldn't approach them and ask for aid with the Blight.
If they agreed, it would mean the Circle tower is one place you won't need to visit and therefore you can gather the army a little faster.
Sure, the game doesn't actually let you do that but your character doesn't know.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 16:58:30 GMT
You've got a point. Perhaps they would just say they've got their hands full here with the refugees, so head to the Tower where the main force is stationed? Then you get them anyway if you ir Gregor annull the circle.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 29, 2017 17:05:41 GMT
There aren't exactly a lot of Templars in Lothering, and the ones that are there are mostly just rank and file. That's not necessarily a reason not to recruit them, but just showing and going "Sup Tempbros, Right of Conscription, y'all are Gray Wardens now" isn't going to give you the level of support that you'll get by speaking to the Knight-Commander back in Kinloch Hold.
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jun 29, 2017 19:08:02 GMT
Recruiting Templars?
For what? They're nothing special.
I'd much rather have fireball hurling mages fighting beside me than yet more sword swingers.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 29, 2017 20:30:33 GMT
The Templars. It occurs to me that it doesn't make sense that the Warden wouldn't approach them and ask for aid with the Blight. If they agreed, it would mean the Circle tower is one place you won't need to visit and therefore you can gather the army a little faster. Sure, the game doesn't actually let you do that but your character doesn't know. The Wardens need Mages, not Templars. If you play as Circle Mage, Duncan tell, that they lack Mages. The Templars just melee stuffs, perhaps experienced, but not as special than the mages. And the Warden can recruit Dwarves. They have more experience against the darkspawn.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 30, 2017 6:38:23 GMT
Recruiting Templars? For what? They're nothing special. I'd much rather have fireball hurling mages fighting beside me than yet more sword swingers. Objectively speaking, yes they are something special. They're supposed to be some of the better sword swingers out there as I recall, and even if that's not true it's made clear they're educated on magical threats. And then there's their ability to shut down mages. In fact the latter is why Alistair was recruited, if I remember correctly: Duncan wanted a way to counter emissaries. But even if none of that was true, an extra sword is an extra sword. And if you're grabbing the ones from Lothering, who aren't too busy watching the mages who don't go into battle to actually go into battle themselves, then you might not even have to pick between fireballs and extra swords.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 30, 2017 9:23:33 GMT
Recruiting Templars? For what? They're nothing special. I'd much rather have fireball hurling mages fighting beside me than yet more sword swingers. Objectively speaking, yes they are something special. They're supposed to be some of the better sword swingers out there as I recall, and even if that's not true it's made clear they're educated on magical threats. And then there's their ability to shut down mages. In fact the latter is why Alistair was recruited, if I remember correctly: Duncan wanted a way to counter emissaries. But even if none of that was true, an extra sword is an extra sword. And if you're grabbing the ones from Lothering, who aren't too busy watching the mages who don't go into battle to actually go into battle themselves, then you might not even have to pick between fireballs and extra swords. The original question was, the Warden unnecessarily visiting the Calenhad Tower, because Templars exist in Lothering. But they aren't enough, and the Centrum is the Calenhad Tower. And I suppose these Templars for protecting the Chantry during the blight. Back to the original question: makes sense to visit the Calenhad Tower, because the Wardens lack Mages, not melees. The Templars power only better against the emissaries, but the Mages also have effective anti-magic power.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 30, 2017 9:51:50 GMT
Objectively speaking, yes they are something special. They're supposed to be some of the better sword swingers out there as I recall, and even if that's not true it's made clear they're educated on magical threats. And then there's their ability to shut down mages. In fact the latter is why Alistair was recruited, if I remember correctly: Duncan wanted a way to counter emissaries. But even if none of that was true, an extra sword is an extra sword. And if you're grabbing the ones from Lothering, who aren't too busy watching the mages who don't go into battle to actually go into battle themselves, then you might not even have to pick between fireballs and extra swords. The original question was, the Warden unnecessarily visiting the Calenhad Tower, because Templars exist in Lothering. But they aren't enough, and the Centrum is the Calenhad Tower. And I suppose these Templars for protecting the Chantry during the blight. Back to the original question: makes sense to visit the Calenhad Tower, because the Wardens lack Mages, not melees. The Templars power only better against the emissaries, but the Mages also have effective anti-magic power. Well, obviously this isn't going to be a workable alternative to visiting the Circle Tower. It wouldn't net enough Templars to be an alternative to the Templars at the Tower, and it wouldn't net any mages whatsoever, and to top it off the circumstances are such that you really ought to gather as many of both as you possibly can rather than being content with just one army. But I think it would have been worth doing. It's not like they're doing much good guarding that Chantry that's about to be overrun by darkspawn.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 30, 2017 9:58:46 GMT
The original question was, the Warden unnecessarily visiting the Calenhad Tower, because Templars exist in Lothering. But they aren't enough, and the Centrum is the Calenhad Tower. And I suppose these Templars for protecting the Chantry during the blight. Back to the original question: makes sense to visit the Calenhad Tower, because the Wardens lack Mages, not melees. The Templars power only better against the emissaries, but the Mages also have effective anti-magic power. Well, obviously this isn't going to be a workable alternative to visiting the Circle Tower. It wouldn't net enough Templars to be an alternative to the Templars at the Tower, and it wouldn't net any mages whatsoever, and to top it off the circumstances are such that you really ought to gather as many of both as you possibly can rather than being content with just one army. But I think it would have been worth doing. It's not like they're doing much good guarding that Chantry that's about to be overrun by darkspawn. I think, to protect the people and keep the order during that mess much more useful, than watching mages' asses in the Circle incessantly...
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 30, 2017 10:09:21 GMT
Well, obviously this isn't going to be a workable alternative to visiting the Circle Tower. It wouldn't net enough Templars to be an alternative to the Templars at the Tower, and it wouldn't net any mages whatsoever, and to top it off the circumstances are such that you really ought to gather as many of both as you possibly can rather than being content with just one army. But I think it would have been worth doing. It's not like they're doing much good guarding that Chantry that's about to be overrun by darkspawn. I think, to protect the people and keep the order during that mess much more useful, than watching mages' asses in the Circle incessantly... Arguably. Though watching the mages asses prevents those mages from crapping out demons, so there's that. Do we really want to turn this into another mage v. templar thread, though?
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Post by Catilina on Jun 30, 2017 10:13:39 GMT
I think, to protect the people and keep the order during that mess much more useful, than watching mages' asses in the Circle incessantly... Arguably. Though watching the mages asses prevents those mages from crapping out demons, so there's that. Do we really want to turn this into another mage v. templar thread, though? This is already a Mage/Templar thread. All about, that the Mages are more useful to fight against the blight, or the Templars are. I share Duncan's position: the Wardens need more Mages to an effective fight.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 30, 2017 12:23:38 GMT
The warden treaties are with the mages not the templars. If the warden asked the head templar at Lothering he would still have to go up the chain of command. Better to go directly to the circle and enlist assistance directly from the Irving and Gregoir who are in the position of offer the aid or not. Yes. And it's not a simple offer, this is a pact. Irving and Gregoir must fulfill, if it possible. But the Lothering Templars aren't that position, that the can fulfill such a pact, and they ordered to Lothering, can't just left their position, because they haven't a commander. Not mentioned, even if they leave their position, the Wardens still need Mages, and have the pact, FOR MAGES...
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Post by Treacherous J Slither on Jun 30, 2017 14:27:22 GMT
The original question was, the Warden unnecessarily visiting the Calenhad Tower, because Templars exist in Lothering. But they aren't enough, and the Centrum is the Calenhad Tower. And I suppose these Templars for protecting the Chantry during the blight. Back to the original question: makes sense to visit the Calenhad Tower, because the Wardens lack Mages, not melees. The Templars power only better against the emissaries, but the Mages also have effective anti-magic power. Well, obviously this isn't going to be a workable alternative to visiting the Circle Tower. It wouldn't net enough Templars to be an alternative to the Templars at the Tower, and it wouldn't net any mages whatsoever, and to top it off the circumstances are such that you really ought to gather as many of both as you possibly can rather than being content with just one army. But I think it would have been worth doing. It's not like they're doing much good guarding that Chantry that's about to be overrun by darkspawn. They're just throwing their lives away by staying there. Might as well take them with us. Too bad you aren't given the option.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 30, 2017 19:00:36 GMT
Arguably. Though watching the mages asses prevents those mages from crapping out demons, so there's that. Do we really want to turn this into another mage v. templar thread, though? This is already a Mage/Templar thread. All about, that the Mages are more useful to fight against the blight, or the Templars are. I share Duncan's position: the Wardens need more Mages to an effective fight. Judging by Alistair's presence, I'd imagine Duncan's position is that you need both. The warden treaties are with the mages not the templars. If the warden asked the head templar at Lothering he would still have to go up the chain of command. Better to go directly to the circle and enlist assistance directly from the Irving and Gregoir who are in the position of offer the aid or not. Yes. And it's not a simple offer, this is a pact. Irving and Gregoir must fulfill, if it possible. But the Lothering Templars aren't that position, that the can fulfill such a pact, and they ordered to Lothering, can't just left their position, because they haven't a commander. Not mentioned, even if they leave their position, the Wardens still need Mages, and have the pact, FOR MAGES... Well, I can't imagine the Templars are staying at Lothering. I know you meet Wesley there, but I'd been under the impression he was the only templar still there. Really all it would mean for the Templars to join you would be that they evacuate to a different area and put themselves in a different assignment, since I don't think they were about to stay to die or leave and put their swords down. (And I suppose it would also mean that the Wardens actually stick around to help evac Lothering, since I get the feeling that's the only reason the Chantry folk are still there.) I don't think the templars at Lothering are beholden to Kinloch Hold, though. I'd imagined they were answerable to the priest in their Chantry. Who is right there, and able to be reasoned with.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 30, 2017 19:11:21 GMT
This is already a Mage/Templar thread. All about, that the Mages are more useful to fight against the blight, or the Templars are. I share Duncan's position: the Wardens need more Mages to an effective fight. Judging by Alistair's presence, I'd imagine Duncan's position is that you need both. Of course, every sword and fireball can help, but the question was: why we must go to the Calenhad Tower, if some Templars are in Lothering. My answer was: because from the Circle we need MAGES, not Templars in the first instance. And: if we already have mages, or mages are disappeared, the Templars can be useful as well.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 30, 2017 19:13:28 GMT
Judging by Alistair's presence, I'd imagine Duncan's position is that you need both. Of course, every sword and fireball can help, but the question was: why we must go to the Calenhad Tower, if some Templars are in Lothering. My answer was: because from the Circle we need MAGES, not Templars in the first instance. And: if we already have mages, or mages are disappeared, the Templars can be useful as well. I'd thought we'd settled that question, though. I'd thought we'd agreed that this was in no way a workable alternative to the Circle.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 30, 2017 19:23:20 GMT
Of course, every sword and fireball can help, but the question was: why we must go to the Calenhad Tower, if some Templars are in Lothering. My answer was: because from the Circle we need MAGES, not Templars in the first instance. And: if we already have mages, or mages are disappeared, the Templars can be useful as well. I'd thought we'd settled that question, though. I'd thought we'd agreed that this was in no way a workable alternative to the Circle. Yes. But I didn't understand, why you want to prove, that in a battle we need swords too?
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 30, 2017 19:31:23 GMT
I'd thought we'd settled that question, though. I'd thought we'd agreed that this was in no way a workable alternative to the Circle. Yes. But I didn't understand, why you want to prove, that in a battle we need swords too? I'd thought you were questioning it. That's why. If you weren't, then I suppose the argument's over. Actually, if you weren't the argument probably shouldn't have lasted as long as it did.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 30, 2017 20:22:41 GMT
Yes. But I didn't understand, why you want to prove, that in a battle we need swords too? I'd thought you were questioning it. That's why. If you weren't, then I suppose the argument's over. Actually, if you weren't the argument probably shouldn't have lasted as long as it did. I followed the basic question in my answers. I know, that the Templars are experienced fighters, and can be useful, and never questioned, that the Wardens need every help. But if we must choose between the mages and Templars, I'll go with the mages, because we have other melees and non-magical forces.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 30, 2017 22:46:00 GMT
I'd thought you were questioning it. That's why. If you weren't, then I suppose the argument's over. Actually, if you weren't the argument probably shouldn't have lasted as long as it did. I followed the basic question in my answers. I know, that the Templars are experienced fighters, and can be useful, and never questioned, that the Wardens need every help. But if we must choose between the mages and Templars, I'll go with the mages, because we have other melees and non-magical forces. Yeah, if we have to pick (and that is the way things are set up in-game) the mages probably are the better bet.
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Post by phoray on Jul 1, 2017 14:36:48 GMT
The Templars. It occurs to me that it doesn't make sense that the Warden wouldn't approach them and ask for aid with the Blight. If they agreed, it would mean the Circle tower is one place you won't need to visit and therefore you can gather the army a little faster. Sure, the game doesn't actually let you do that but your character doesn't know. The Wardens need Mages, not Templars. If you play as Circle Mage, Duncan tell, that they lack Mages.The Templars just melee stuffs, perhaps experienced, but not as special than the mages. And the Warden can recruit Dwarves. They have more experience against the darkspawn. After Ostagar, the Wardens lack more than mages. Just sayin' but to OP, there are like 5 random Templars in Lothering, you're a wanted criminal by the very country of their birth, and you're not their boss. The game also doesn't let you conscript anyone. It actually lets you kill your allies, for example, which is about the dumbest thing you could do considering your whole goal all game is increasing your manpower.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 1, 2017 14:43:37 GMT
The Wardens need Mages, not Templars. If you play as Circle Mage, Duncan tell, that they lack Mages.The Templars just melee stuffs, perhaps experienced, but not as special than the mages. And the Warden can recruit Dwarves. They have more experience against the darkspawn. After Ostagar, the Wardens lack more than mages. Just sayin' but to OP, there are like 5 random Templars in Lothering, you're a wanted criminal by the very country of their birth, and you're not their boss. The game also doesn't let you conscript anyone. It actually lets you kill your allies, for example, which is about the dumbest thing you could do considering your whole goal all game is increasing your manpower. Yes, I see, where I committed the mistake: I should have written here: "from the Circle, primarily"... so: going to the Calenhad Tower is inevitable. Of course, the Wardens need everyone/~thing who/what able to fight against the darkspawn.
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Post by capn233 on Jul 1, 2017 22:34:27 GMT
Oh but you can ask Ser Bryant for help, and he gives you a key for a cabinet. That is great help, even if one of the items isn't even given unless you have 3rd party bug fix.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Kittybass
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Post by Finvola on Jul 1, 2017 22:58:31 GMT
Funny you should mention that, I only just found out about the missing item from the cabinet the other day. I finally got around to wondering where the Ancient Elven Boots were because I could never find them and thought I must be missing something. I also always wondered why Ser Bryant talked as if there was something valuable in the cabinet but only had a health poultice or whatever inside. I just installed the bugfix yesterday. I got my boots, but I was near the end of the game by that stage. Better late than never I suppose, ha!
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Post by mike3207 on Jul 2, 2017 0:13:48 GMT
They do what they can-Bryant has his hands full with trying to help the people of Lothering and the refugees coming in.
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