Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
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At sunrise there is the sunset.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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thelastvanguardian
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jul 18, 2017 3:01:50 GMT
Some may not have noticed and others may not agree with me and some will say it's coincidence... In KOTOR 2 there is a name that with a one letter vowel removal also shows up in Mass Effect 1: KOTOR 2 TSL: Darth NihIlus Mass Effect 1: Nihlus Kryik So my question: Who else noticed this?
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Qui-Gon GlenN7
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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quigonglenn
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 20, 2017 1:10:13 GMT
Since Obsidian developed TSL, and Biower developed ME, I would say there ain't much more than a coincidence happening.
If you had referenced SWTOR, and Nihilus (if he is even mentioned there, I dunno that game is crap) then you might be on to something.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
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5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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November 2016
thelastvanguardian
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jul 21, 2017 3:24:16 GMT
Since Obsidian developed TSL, and Biower developed ME, I would say there ain't much more than a coincidence happening. If you had referenced SWTOR, and Nihilus (if he is even mentioned there, I dunno that game is crap) then you might be on to something. That technically is not true -will get to that later... I don't know much about the way the game industry works. Although if it is anything like the organizations we have around here some cooperation between companies can occur so both can meet deadlines... It is my opinion that KOTOR2 was developed in conjunction between Bioware and Obsidian -at the start anyway -then only Obsidian. Some fore-knowledge: Bioware originally had a plan and had a story arc for KOTOR 1 & 2 -before KOTOR 1 was shipped -not that it got made. Bioware began work on KOTOR 2 -designing plot, story, NPC's, levels and maybe some cutscenes probably before KOTOR1 shipped.. Information that most likely would be the data files of KOTOR2 would have been saved as they went along -if anyone was reliable enough. Then they hear the news about the shortened development cycle. However KOTOR 2 was not the only project Bioware was working on -for Bioware had other commitments like Jade Empire. As such there was no way at that time that Bioware would have been able to complete both games in the time LucasArts allotted for KOTOR 2. LucasArts wanted KOTOR2 and wanted it fast: 14-16 months! -Something I don't think Obsidian has done since the KOTOR2 launch. Bioware also at that time I don't believe was but one main studio. If that is true -then two projects on one studio seems a bit ... much. Don't believe? KOTOR1 & KOTOR2 use the same game engine. The Odyssey Engine. Well the Odyssey engine is a Bioware creation -based of the Aurora engine that Bioware made previously. Now I personally don't know how long it takes to write a game engine. But by going along the release dates of Icewind Dale 2 and KOTOR1... I come to the conclusion that it probably takes about a year or more to write a game engine -especially if to work the kinks out too. If Obsidian had to make the game straight away by also creating the game engine I have no doubt the development would have taken even longer. So at the very least Bioware got the basics of the engine running for Obsidian -more time for Obsidian to develop assets for the game. Speaking of assets -NPC's, levels/planets, buildings, cutscenes -things that may be easy today but took a bit of time to create back then. And if some assets already existed in the files that Bioware transferred to Obsidian -data that used Bioware's initial game plans. I hate to say it but it is possible that data-mining was done by Obsidian and if so... Then any names of assets would be known and thus any names of assets that Bioware had designed before the hand-off would be known to Obsidian. So technically Obsidian would have known the names of the assets that Bioware had created and maybe even changed them slightly in correlation with the story that Obsidian wanted to tell. Thus this thread... Now before you say "Plagiarism!" It needs to be known that when Obsidian began working on KOTOR2 that they acquired the license for Star Wars in gaming. So in a technical sense when Obsidian acquired the license they also acquired the data Bioware had created. Also according to Imdb -Both games (KOTOR1&2) had some of the same people: Michael Gallo (producer) Kim Jardin (compatibility technician) Darragh O'Farrell (voice-over director) -KOTOR2 added Will Beckman. Tor McAfee Kingdon (sound recording engineer) (dialogue recording mixer) Julian Kwasneski (lead sound designer) Ben Burtt (original sound effects: Star Wars) Also SWTOR is not a bad game. But then again I ONLY CARE about story so gameplay mechanics don't matter.
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Qui-Gon GlenN7
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 22, 2017 2:40:41 GMT
Telling the history of the game was not news to me, and Bioware never started any production of KotOR2.
Nihilism is a fairly popular niche, admired by many and pretty rational with some humor thrown in - along with a helping of dread.
So, you are welcome to draw whatever conclusion you like, but I disagree with the validity of your premises.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
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5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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thelastvanguardian
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jul 22, 2017 8:13:38 GMT
Telling the history of the game was not news to me, and Bioware never started any production of KotOR2.Nihilism is a fairly popular niche, admired by many and pretty rational with some humor thrown in - along with a helping of dread. So, you are welcome to draw whatever conclusion you like, but I disagree with the validity of your premises. Really? So Chris Avellone was lying?:
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Ohm's Law Compels You
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Qui-Gon GlenN7
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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quigonglenn
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 22, 2017 13:30:22 GMT
Obsidian got to work on Kotor2 right out of the gate! It was their first game, they were the start-up. "Getting it" didn't mean they were handed Bioware assets from an unfinished TSL; it simply meant they got to work on a game that would get a lot of attention due to the whole Star Wars thing. Biower recommended Obsidian because reasons (friendships, old employees of BW, etc).
I think you misunderstood his meaning there.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
2139
0
5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
5,220
November 2016
thelastvanguardian
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jul 24, 2017 0:13:31 GMT
Maybe. Yet doubtful. If Bioware gave them "a lot of help" -by just giving Obsidian the game engine and then they start flat canvas -then a lot less would have been done than what we actually got. Now I don't believe assets were just handed from an unfinished TSL - if you only count production as a working game -though in other situations like this -THAT does happen. As far as production of a game goes -I count everything that starts on paper as the first stage of development: rough drafts of story, storyboards, plots & plot-twists. Followed by the "actual" meat and bones of operation: sound, graphics, & gameplay as being the second stage. Then the actual putting of all these together in a cohesive unit as the final stage of development and then given to the producer. For me it is from the very first idea of the story of the game -THAT is the starting point. And in this case the original story for KOTOR2 was written by Bioware even before KOTOR #1 was released. A story that Obsidian didn't have access to. And one that made Chris Avellone -who wrote Kotor 2's script want to throw his own script for KOTOR 2 away when he finally got to read Biowares' story. Still there is no way that details of this story wouldn't bleed between stuidos -since as you put it yourself that old friends and employees of Bioware now worked at Obsidian. Names and characters that would certainly be known to Bioware employees could easily be known to Obsidian by that fact alone. I mean Bioware did it with ME3: Bioware began working on ME3 before ME2 was released -that is a known -luckily the game stayed in studio. There is no reason to not believe this never occurred before: Begin working on planning a game story. Making game assets. Announcement comes that development will be short. Changes to game are made or the game development gets passed to another studio. There is no reason to believe that this was not done with KOTOR2. Bioware probably began planning the pacing of the story and got as far as beginning to make the assets for the game. In this case though probably just the simple assets. Not assets like entire planets but just maybe a door or a NPC but whose names alone allow some inclination of who or what that asset is for: Like the KOTOR 2 asset: Dantooine Jedi Enclave Subterrain Ruined Entrance. An asset like that indicates four things: 1. The planet Dantooine is in the game. 2. There is a Jedi Enclave on Dantooine. 3. This Enclave goes underground. 4. This Enclave is in a ruined state. So if you follow that -when I say that Bioware was working on KOTOR 2 -It does not necessarily mean that Bioware had a working level of Dantooine. More likely than not maybe one or two assets with a bunch of smaller assets -names associated with it. Nevertheless Obsidian would have found this information anyway -in the passing of data from Bioware nonetheless. Since all data that Bioware had created or developed in the SWKOTOR franchise was collected by LucasArts. However to even work on KOTOR2 Obsidian had to ACQUIRE the SWKOTOR intellectual property license from Bioware in the first place. LucasArts did try to censure the information -not allowing Obsidian to even read the KOTOR1 plot. The only reason that Obsidian gets all the credit and none of the behind the scenes work done on the whole SWKOTOR franchise done by Bioware is even allotted is due to LucasArts authoritarian dictatorship command decisions. If not for Sauron-like decisions LucasArts did then more likely than not Bioware would have at least been given some credit or maybe even completed KOTOR2... Or maybe KOTOR3 on a far off note... alas C'est La Vie.
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