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Post by mattig89ch on Sept 19, 2016 5:00:18 GMT
Hidy ho all,
I was looking for a strategy game, because DA2 isn't fulfilling that itch. Masters of Orion was, for a while. but a few bad spawns, and the AI's inexplicable ability to build faster then me, made me loose interest.
And such, I've wanted Xcom2 since it came out, and saw someone on my friends list playing it. I started asking for opinions, and they all seem split down the middle. its awesome, or its good, but wait for a sale.
I'm wondering if anyone here has played it, and if so what they think of it.
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 19, 2016 6:44:17 GMT
I'm in the "it's pretty damn good" camp. I bought it at full price and don't regret a thing.
I'll assume that you played and liked XCOM: Enemy Unknown. XCOM2 is a good iteration on the game concepts, keeping the things that worked in the first game and adds a few improvements.
Both XCOM: Enemy Unknown/Enemy Within and XCOM2 have a mechanic that puts the player under pressure in the main campaign. In the first XCOM, it was the panic level of the supporting countries, in XCOM2 it's the progress of the alien Avatar project.
Both games have turn based battles where the RNG rolls vs a unit's chance to hit to produce a result, and it can lead to frustration when your 95% sniper misses twice in a row. Both game also sort of pre-generate their random rolls and save them to make save scumming harder (though I think you can disable that in the game options).
Where XCOM2 differs most from its predecessor is that most missions now have a turn limit. If you exceed that limit before completing the mission objectives, you fail the mission. XCOM: Enemy Within only had turn limits when it came to recovering Meld, but in XCOM2 most standard missions have a turn limit. This was something that not every player liked, but I personally think it's a good way to avoid the "slowly crawl forward from overwatch to overwatch" in the first game.
Also, XCOM2 has fantastic soldier customisation. Pre-fabricated faces aside, many RPGs don't have that level of character customisation that XCOM2 has.
Story wise, XCOM2 assumes that you lost the first XCOM campaign and that aliens are in charge of Earth now. Your XCOM gang is basically a guerilla force. Where in the first game the aliens were the intruders, it's now you who is the invader, as large parts of Earth's population have been convinced that the aliens' rule is actually benevolent...
XCOM2 had some performance issues on my old computer where cutscenes would occasionally stutter. The gameplay itself was fine though.
Overall I enjoyed it enough to complete the main campaign two times so far, and I'm sure I'll play it again some time.
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Post by Shepenwepet on Sept 19, 2016 13:23:55 GMT
As a console peasant, I'm going to be able to pick up XCOM2 in a little over a week. I've been waiting for ages. Where XCOM2 differs most from its predecessor is that most missions now have a turn limit. If you exceed that limit before completing the mission objectives, you fail the mission. XCOM: Enemy Within only had turn limits when it came to recovering Meld, but in XCOM2 most standard missions have a turn limit. This was something that not every player liked, but I personally think it's a good way to avoid the "slowly crawl forward from overwatch to overwatch" in the first game. "Slowly crawl from overwatch to overwatch" was my entire gameplan, to the letter. How DARE they make me risk my soldier's lives. ...I'm not going to be starting the actual game for like ten hours, am I? I'll put all this work into them and they'll all die instantly because I'm out of practice and under pressure. I can't wait.
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Post by Serza on Sept 19, 2016 13:34:28 GMT
Vigilo Confido. Actually...
Here's about... seven, eight hours of a playthrough. Major spoilers, but you can very easily see how the game plays.
That PT is still not complete. I have to check if I forgot to make public an episode or two... And then maybe finish streaming the damn thing.
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 19, 2016 14:22:13 GMT
"Slowly crawl from overwatch to overwatch" was my entire gameplan, to the letter. How DARE they make me risk my soldier's lives. Erm, to be honest, that was my way of playing too in XCOM: Enemy Unknown. There was something very enjoyable to see a bunch of aliens get gunned down in a well placed ambush. However, XCOM2 has given your characters a bit more powerful abilities to make up for the pressure created by the turn limits, and these lead to just as satisfying results. For example, the sniper's "Kill Zone" is an Overwatch on steroids, allowing them a shot at every target that walks into the ability's zone, as long as their gun has rounds in the mag. Epic stuff. ...I'm not going to be starting the actual game for like ten hours, am I? I'll put all this work into them and they'll all die instantly because I'm out of practice and under pressure. I can't wait. Haha, no, you very likely won't! You can pick faces, hairdos, many armor pieces and accessories, their nationality, their voices (8 - 10 depending on nationality), and you can pick camo patterns and colors for weapons and armor on top of that. But in my opinion, the best thing you can pick is the soldier's general attitude. These being "Normal", "Laid Back", "Twitchy", "Happy-Go-Lucky", "Hard Luck", "Intense", and "By The Book". This selection decides two things: the soldier's pose during the loadout screen, and their voice overs during combat. A "normal" soldier will stand at attention during loadout with the occasional glance or look at his rifle, and his in game comments are "normal" as well. He'll say "Moving out!" when given a move command or "One less hostile" after making a kill. A "laid back" soldier will stand casually with his rifle over his shoulder during loadout, and will say things like "Impressed yet?" after killing an alien. A "hard luck" soldier will comment a kill with a dejected "One down, millions to go..." and so on. Awesome stuff.
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Post by Serza on Sept 19, 2016 14:53:00 GMT
Overwatch spam? Yeah, handy thing.
But you could also move in a ranger file, with your Assault (run'n'gun) up front doing the scouting (as opposed to the dedicated Scout in Long War), because if he's activate, you can run'n'gun to safety and do... SOMETHING, leaving the rest of your squad (up to twelve, since if you haven't played with Long War, you haven't played at all) to do whatever you please to horribly wreck the aliens during their "Welcome to Earth!" party.
And frankly, combined arms tactics get really, really impressive when your Gunner suppresses a Muton while your Assault comes up close, puts one in the guy's face, and then disappears (because he was close enough to only move once, and has Close Combat Specialist) or just shoots the guy twice (same reason, Rapid Fire, whatever).
It's just as rewarding when your Overwatch Infantry just HITS EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMN AYYY ON THAT TURN because they CAN do that. Combat Medic builds are also fairly awesome, as they let you heal shit and overwatch like a badass, often in the same turn, WITH moving up to keep up the pressure.
In The Zone/Snapshot/Lock'n'Load snipers and Sapper/Packmaster/Bombard engineers become a duo to behold, as one simply makes all cover go *poof* (fine, most, can't destroy everything) and your Sniper just picks everyone off, reloads, and keeps up the mayhem. Think of the MAYHEM!
Or Proxy Mine equipped Archer MEC Troopers in combination with whoever has Flush at the moment. One lays a mine, the other flushes the target out for +30 Aim, 1/2 Damage, making BOOM spectacular.
So many different ways to slaughter your way through all the Ayyy's... I suggest you check out Beaglerush on YouTube, since that's where I learned pretty much all of the tactics.
In XCOM2, things get different, but you can still apply so much pressure the Ayyy and Advent shit themselves. If they have enough time to do so following an ambush. Seriously, a well set-up Concealment trap is just as important as a well set-up door breach in the original.
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Post by Innocent Bystander on Sept 19, 2016 19:10:55 GMT
XCOM 2: first mission, first enemy encountered. Setting up concealed ambush. Jane Kelly opens with melee, damaging officer. Rest of squad fires from cover: miss, miss and miss. Ayy's move: officer marks one of my guys in cover and shoots at Jane. Hit, Jane is wounded. Trooper shoots at marked guy in full cover. Hit, first casualty. Other two guys fail at morale check and start panicking. One of them runs away, activating second pod. One of those finishes Jane off, the second one wounds that, now out of cover, panicked dude. My turn, have two guys, one of them wounded, both panicked. Ayy's turn. Game over, git gud. That's XCOM, babby!
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Post by Serza on Sept 19, 2016 22:07:22 GMT
That is literally XCOM. RNGesus did NOT favor you that mission.
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Post by mattig89ch on Sept 19, 2016 23:15:28 GMT
See now, I'm seeing nothing but reasons to buy this game. There are times when that RNG percentage thing made me ragequit. But I always came back to it.
And yea, I was one of those who bounced from cover to cover, and overwatch to overwatch. I always used 2 assault troopers to scout with, 2 medics to heal with, 1 sniper to pick off targets the others found, and 1 heavy/mech trooper, to finish off anything left standing. ususally in that turn order too.
I also save scummed alot more then I'd care to admit. Mostly because those 99% hit chances, seemed to miss alot more then 1% of the time.
But this game sounds awesome. I was hearing about so many problems on launch though. Have those problems been resolved?
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Post by masterwarderz on Sept 19, 2016 23:37:00 GMT
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Post by Iakus on Sept 20, 2016 4:04:13 GMT
See now, I'm seeing nothing but reasons to buy this game. There are times when that RNG percentage thing made me ragequit. But I always came back to it. And yea, I was one of those who bounced from cover to cover, and overwatch to overwatch. I always used 2 assault troopers to scout with, 2 medics to heal with, 1 sniper to pick off targets the others found, and 1 heavy/mech trooper, to finish off anything left standing. ususally in that turn order too. I also save scummed alot more then I'd care to admit. Mostly because those 99% hit chances, seemed to miss alot more then 1% of the time. But this game sounds awesome. I was hearing about so many problems on launch though. Have those problems been resolved? An interesting thing about XCom 2 is thatdifferent builds can make fro VERY different soldiers. A Medic-based specialist is quite different from a tech-based one for example. And they're both useful in different ways
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Post by mattig89ch on Sept 20, 2016 4:17:17 GMT
Yea, I've heard snipers built for pistols are bad-ass in 2. Not like in enemy unknown where they just get small bonuses to hit (incidentally, that's who I typically sent out on undercover missions, the guys/gals who had the skills to kill with a pistol).
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Post by Serza on Sept 20, 2016 9:34:06 GMT
Yeah, well... The covert operatives aren't really meant to FIGHT. In Long War, you could build Assaults admirably for the Covert Operative duty, and Run'N'Gun would help with activating those dashing transmitters (activating one would disable all EXALT weapons on the map, BUT NOT THE ONES WHO DEPLOY AFTER ACTIVATION).
You could also go for a Concealment Scout, but I preferred RnG Assaults. And then... I would just make sure my active team could abuse the EXALT-out-of-ammo situation as best I could. Naturally, they were harmless, so the more... risky maneuvers were fine as long as you didn't over extend.
Also, inactive pods would NOT reload until they were active, which helped a lot. A well executed EXALT mission was an XP farm, where your Operative would chain-hack transmitters turn after turn, rendering EXALT completely harmless for the duration, and easy pickings for your squad. In Covert Extractions, I remember at least one time where I rushed, activated EVERYTHING and disappeared before EXALT could do anything to stop me. Just poof, gone.
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Sept 20, 2016 9:58:45 GMT
As far as RNG and hit chances are concerned: XCOM2 gives you an overage average hit percentage at the end of the mission, i.e. how many of your team's overall shots landed on target. Interesting number to compare to your team's average chances to hit. I've had lucky missions with a 100% hit rate too, so sometimes the RNG actually liked me!
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Post by Serza on Sept 20, 2016 10:18:16 GMT
On Easy, I actually could score 100 percent hit rate semi-reliably...
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 20, 2016 12:30:06 GMT
Another reason to like this game is the mods. The fact that Firaxis built the game with the intention of allowing mod support has done wonders for the longevity of the title for me.
If anyone is interested in some additions to their gameplay, some ambitious modders have added in the capacity to play the campaign in co-op. It's still in early alpha, but its amazing what the community has been able to accomplish.
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wsdswsaswwasdawwI can't move!
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Post by Innocent Bystander on Sept 20, 2016 13:14:20 GMT
As far as RNG and hit chances are concerned: XCOM2 gives you an overage average hit percentage at the end of the mission, i.e. how many of your team's overall shots landed on target. Interesting number to compare to your team's average chances to hit. I've had lucky missions with a 100% hit rate too, so sometimes the RNG actually liked me! Well, about that…… This would suggest that I didn't fire single shot. Even though it's possible, grenades and PSI doesn't count, but this was early, so no PSI and one grenadier can't clear all pods by himself. Post mission screen is bugged, there are theories why and what it actually displays, but suffice to say don't take it at face value. Colorful text courtesy of Ayy Lmao 2: Electric Boogaloo
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Post by Serza on Sept 20, 2016 19:27:25 GMT
I almost forgot about Ayy Lmao 2.
The last time I found it, I also tried horribly to not laugh my lungs out as I'd wake up everyone. The last time, I have definitely failed just as horribly as today.
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Post by spacev3gan on Sept 21, 2016 8:10:15 GMT
I am glad to see a XCOM thread, I was thinking about creating one myself.
I absolutely loved XCOM:EU/EW, but I haven't played XCOM2 yet. I am waiting on a sale while I am trying to catch up with games I bought and haven't really played. XCOM2 is certainly my next gaming purchase. The reviews are very positive and boy you can't really go wrong with XCOM games. You don't usually get deep plots and such, but you get a combat that is as addictive as a Civ game combat, though way more intense.
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Post by Serza on Sept 21, 2016 8:53:12 GMT
It's relatively story-heavy this time around. A lot of people hate the fact you're forced into time limits on both tactical and strategical layer (the Ayyy's win condition is a timed affair - they go towards their own, presumably shady, not exactly great for humanity goal) but it adds some spice. If you can mod the game, you'll also get a lot more realism in that sense - you can slow down the strat layer Ayyy Progress via mods, and there is one that adjusts missions with time limits so that you have no limit placed upon you until you go loud. This way, you can take as many turns as you like, but you'll have to haul ass as soon as you break concealment. There are also missions without time limits where you can stealth through all but the final portion of the mission - and in my first playthrough, I would stealth the objective and (unfortunately it breaks concealment when you finish it) then hauled ass to the evac point placed very, very close as the rest of the team gave the one soldier covering fire. Effectively, it was an in and out, high risk operation.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 21, 2016 8:57:38 GMT
It's relatively story-heavy this time around. A lot of people hate the fact you're forced into time limits on both tactical and strategical layer (the Ayyy's win condition is a timed affair - they go towards their own, presumably shady, not exactly great for humanity goal) but it adds some spice. If you can mod the game, you'll also get a lot more realism in that sense - you can slow down the strat layer Ayyy Progress via mods, and there is one that adjusts missions with time limits so that you have no limit placed upon you until you go loud. This way, you can take as many turns as you like, but you'll have to haul ass as soon as you break concealment. There are also missions without time limits where you can stealth through all but the final portion of the mission - and in my first playthrough, I would stealth the objective and (unfortunately it breaks concealment when you finish it) then hauled ass to the evac point placed very, very close as the rest of the team gave the one soldier covering fire. Effectively, it was an in and out, high risk operation. Damn those skills.
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Post by Serza on Sept 21, 2016 9:27:33 GMT
It's just about thinking a bit. And patience.
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Post by jli84 on Sept 26, 2016 13:05:32 GMT
I really liked it. Thinking of taking it for another spin. The character creation is a lot better this time around and I really started to care about some of my squadmates after a while. Haven't tried higher difficulties, so managed to only lose one of my favs.
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Post by Iakus on Sept 26, 2016 16:16:08 GMT
I really liked it. Thinking of taking it for another spin. The character creation is a lot better this time around and I really started to care about some of my squadmates after a while. Haven't tried higher difficulties, so managed to only lose one of my favs. Yeah you have much more control over the appearance of your soldiers, and can even write little biographies of them.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 26, 2016 16:48:40 GMT
Is the console version of the game going to get mod support?
I know that such a thing is usually unlikely, but with Fallout 4 and Skyrim Remastered having them, as well as XCOM 2 being literally built from the ground up to support modding I was hopping that console players could join in on the fun. I would hate for them to miss out on all the crazy stuff we have for the game now.
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