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Post by fchopin on Jul 25, 2017 11:28:57 GMT
I love her voice for Shepard but not for Krem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 12:58:11 GMT
No, my first BioWare game was Baldur's Gate 1 in 1998. I went on gaming hiatus around 2006 and I broke my foot twice in 2013 so came back to play kotor2 (reloading a save from 2006, lol) and friends talked me into trying SWTOR over MET, then I've picked up MET and DAT in 2016. I never really took much interest in voicing till SWTOR where it mattered. In fact, my initial sticking to BG games and NWN2 and not trying MET was due to the dialogue wheel, because I like a lot of responce options. SWTOR and MET moved my gaming in a different direction. TBH, I did not like original KOTOR all that much, and its cast is one of my least favorite. In my view SWTOR is the most impressive game BioWare made, though Jade Empire is my favorite. Agree to disagree. SWTOR is definitely my least favorite BioWare game, largely because it's as generic as they come, with regard to an MMO. The only highlight is the BioWare storytelling, but that is dwarfed by the endless amounts of boring dailies, generic raids, and underwhelming PvP. Voice acting in BioWare games has always been important to me since KOTOR. Without those actors to bring the characters to life, I doubt I would have cared about the story in any BioWare game nearly as much. Just my personal take on things. I won't disagree though about VA being really important, and it was SWTOR that really made me fall in love with good VAs for the protagonists. Like I said, Hale is fine, some female VAs in major roles I liked better than her for my protagonist (Bounty Hunter and Smuggler), some way less, but I am okay if a female is voiced by her. But, if we get a male voice that will be as awesome as male BH in SWTOR, I'll play a male, 'cause I love listening to my main.
Obviously, SWTOR stands alone like a shining beacon for me, because I have never seen, and I doubt I'd ever see again a game that tells the story of a conflict from 8 different, sometimes conflicting poVs, with that kind of a huge selection of customization for your hero/ine. Plus, I did love the grandiose feel of the Operations vs industrialized nature of dungeons (farm 20 in a day!) and the objective-based PvP was my favorite form of MP content till I started playing Coop in ME3MP (that took out a lot of root causes of the nastiness some peeps bring into the game). I don't like the deathmatches and OW PvP. Also, I even did not mind GSF, though it was waaaay out of my ability to play it well.
Unfortunately, Anthem is unlikely to deliver all those things, let alone more than what SWTOR had, but if the main character is put in focus, including a good voice (and a selection of voices, so you can customize your Human MORE than in the previous games, and money are saved on companions being cut out), I think the game would be an interesting change of pace for me.
So, overall, if the game is all about giving you maximum choices and flexibility about how your main looks, acts and what s/he can do every day, I think it would be something new actually.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Jul 25, 2017 17:18:02 GMT
SWTOR was created, advertised and sold as a story-based MMO with COMPANIONS and a full-scale class campaign\story. Like 'a new KOTOR with raids'. The words mostly heard about Anthem? 'Online, exploration, 4(?)-players coop, playing with friends, combat classes, loot'. They had not even confirmed any kind of campaign, and they are really vague about the companions and NPCs at this point. As for Jen Hale - I think she's a great actress, who does play with her voice. Satele, Bastila, femShep, Krem - you may or may not like them, but they are all different. E.g. Troy Baker (as cool as he sounds) usually plays...Troy Baker. I don't think I'd love to hear her voicing Anthem PC because femShep is way too 'special' for me. But I'd welcome her as an NPC. I believe her part in 'Bioshock Infinite' (as sister Lutece) was one of the best gaming voice-acting I've ever heard. As for the intro chatter, it doesn't sound like her to me. BioWare has stated several times that Anthem is an "online, service-based, action RPG." Considering they've never made a game where story, which is kind of their specialty, has not been the focus, I think you are a little naive for thinking this game won't also have story. No, we haven't heard anything about companions, but since BioWare only makes party-based RPGs, another likely no-brainer. As with SWTOR, companions will likely be substitutes if you don't bring other players along with you. Really, I don't know why so many are assuming BioWare is just going to abandon features they have been putting in all of their games for the past two decades... I never play a female character, so whether she is used or not wouldn't affect me. That being said, Hale has enough variety where she could probably sound different enough to justify her use. As far as the intro chatter is concerned, it sounds very similar to her Female Trooper voice in SWTOR. I'm almost positive it is her.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Jul 25, 2017 17:29:10 GMT
A voiced actor in like 5 seconds of trailer isn't really indicating a rich story and character background. Doesn't sound like Hale to me, neither. That's debatable. Again, look at BioWare's history. Ever since Mass Effect 1, all of their games (other than DAO) have had a voiced protagonist with a rich story and character background. There's no evidence to suggest Anthem will be any different. Listen to the female trooper voice from SWTOR on YouTube. They sound identical at points. I won't disagree though about VA being really important, and it was SWTOR that really made me fall in love with good VAs for the protagonists. Like I said, Hale is fine, some female VAs in major roles I liked better than her for my protagonist (Bounty Hunter and Smuggler), some way less, but I am okay if a female is voiced by her. But, if we get a male voice that will be as awesome as male BH in SWTOR, I'll play a male, 'cause I love listening to my main.
Obviously, SWTOR stands alone like a shining beacon for me, because I have never seen, and I doubt I'd ever see again a game that tells the story of a conflict from 8 different, sometimes conflicting poVs, with that kind of a huge selection of customization for your hero/ine. Plus, I did love the grandiose feel of the Operations vs industrialized nature of dungeons (farm 20 in a day!) and the objective-based PvP was my favorite form of MP content till I started playing Coop in ME3MP (that took out a lot of root causes of the nastiness some peeps bring into the game). I don't like the deathmatches and OW PvP. Also, I even did not mind GSF, though it was waaaay out of my ability to play it well.
Unfortunately, Anthem is unlikely to deliver all those things, let alone more than what SWTOR had, but if the main character is put in focus, including a good voice (and a selection of voices, so you can customize your Human MORE than in the previous games, and money are saved on companions being cut out), I think the game would be an interesting change of pace for me.
So, overall, if the game is all about giving you maximum choices and flexibility about how your main looks, acts and what s/he can do every day, I think it would be something new actually.
VA casting is always somewhat difficult. BioWare tries to get a voice that can fit a large variety of characters. As long as the voice doesn't stand out to the point of bothering me, I'm not really too picky on who they pick. Really, I'm more interested in how I can craft the character instead of how he sounds. Truth be told, I think the one mistake BioWare made was having eight, individual class stories. It was far too much for them to handle and they've never done anything nearly as ambitious since. What they should have done is have two faction stories (one for Republic and one for Empire), but obviously keep different voice actors for every class with some variety in their dialogue. That would have been far more manageable, especially when SWTOR tanked 3 months after launch and then the game went F2P before it was even a year old. There's not going to be eight class stories. There's likely only going to be one. That being said, I'll take quality over quantity any day, as half of the class stories in SWTOR weren't what I'd consider good. I expect there will be dungeons, probably raids, and likely PvP. As many like to assume here, there are probably going to be quite a few similarities, at least in terms of feature set, to Destiny. I'm actually not expecting the customization to be that great, at least not more than typical BioWare games. Since we will be in a Javelin for likely 90% of the experience, that's really where the customization and choice will matter. I'd expect, at best, something similar to Dragon Age Inquisition. As always, I'm in full support of more player choice. We'll have to see just how much choice will have in this game, but the more the merrier.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 17:36:26 GMT
Well, the only reason I see for ditching the whole bunch of traditional BioWARE's content, party play & companions, is to focus on the main character.
If SWTOR did not have 8 class stories, each with a different protagonist and the cast, it would be just another lackluster game, not the most amazing one every released for me, because it was such a pleasure to see the world from all those PoVs and have such a selection of character. It is 8 inter-related games in one great setting package with a ton of extras. Maybe it was marketed to the wrong crowd, and would have been a hit if they turned it onto the SP rails faster, going B2P instead of F2P, but whatever. What's done is done, and what's played is played.
I will be very disappointed if Anthem is nothing special in any category, and is just a dung grinder in a suit.
It gotta be stellar in some way, and I hope it's in the treatment of the main...
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Post by Revan Reborn on Jul 25, 2017 17:51:17 GMT
Well, the only reason I see for ditching the whole bunch of traditional BioWARE's content, party play & companions, is to focus on the main character.
If SWTOR did not have 8 class stories, each with a different protagonist and the cast, it would be just another lackluster game, not the most amazing one every released for me, because it was such a pleasure to see the world from all those PoVs and have such a selection of character. It is 8 inter-related games in one great setting package with a ton of extras. Maybe it was marketed to the wrong crowd, and would have been a hit if they turned it onto the SP rails faster, going B2P instead of F2P, but whatever. What's done is done, and what's played is played.
I will be very disappointed if Anthem is nothing special in any category, and is just a dung grinder in a suit.
It gotta be stellar in some way, and I hope it's in the treatment of the main... Why can't the game have the BioWare staples and focus on the main character? I guess I'm confused. BioWare has always done a pretty good job of letting you have ownership over the character. Your character is always the center of attention in the story as well. My point is that SWTOR failed because it had eight class stories. It was too much to manage and even BioWare stated there was no way they could feasibly continue to support eight separate class stories post-launch. As I said before, other than Jedi Knight, Smuggler, Sith Inquisitior, and maybe Bounty Hunter, the rest of the class stories were forgettable or just bad, in my opinion. Things would have been different, perhaps, if BioWare could have realistically provided story content for eight different stories on a regular basis. There was no way that was going to happen, which is why the game most of its player base in three months and was forced to go F2P. I guess it depends on how one defines "special." I know that I'm excited just from the short demo that we saw. Obviously, we'll need to know more to fully grasp what the game is. I just expect BioWare to use their experience from SWTOR to largely determine what kind of features this online game will have.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 25, 2017 17:59:05 GMT
A voiced actor in like 5 seconds of trailer isn't really indicating a rich story and character background. Doesn't sound like Hale to me, neither. That's debatable. Again, look at BioWare's history. Ever since Mass Effect 1, all of their games (other than DAO) have had a voiced protagonist with a rich story and character background. There's no evidence to suggest Anthem will be any different. Listen to the female trooper voice from SWTOR on YouTube. They sound identical at points. Past performance is not a guarantee for the future. This is a new IP and they have yet to prove to get Frostbite working on that. So far, their track record has been mixed. There is just too little info to get excited about. Obviously, a VA like Hale is a selling point. I almost bought Long Dark just because of her.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 18:12:56 GMT
Well, the only reason I see for ditching the whole bunch of traditional BioWARE's content, party play & companions, is to focus on the main character.
If SWTOR did not have 8 class stories, each with a different protagonist and the cast, it would be just another lackluster game, not the most amazing one every released for me, because it was such a pleasure to see the world from all those PoVs and have such a selection of character. It is 8 inter-related games in one great setting package with a ton of extras. Maybe it was marketed to the wrong crowd, and would have been a hit if they turned it onto the SP rails faster, going B2P instead of F2P, but whatever. What's done is done, and what's played is played.
I will be very disappointed if Anthem is nothing special in any category, and is just a dung grinder in a suit.
It gotta be stellar in some way, and I hope it's in the treatment of the main... Why can't the game have the BioWare staples and focus on the main character? I guess I'm confused. BioWare has always done a pretty good job of letting you have ownership over the character. Your character is always the center of attention in the story as well. My point is that SWTOR failed because it had eight class stories. It was too much to manage and even BioWare stated there was no way they could feasibly continue to support eight separate class stories post-launch. As I said before, other than Jedi Knight, Smuggler, Sith Inquisitior, and maybe Bounty Hunter, the rest of the class stories were forgettable or just bad, in my opinion. Things would have been different, perhaps, if BioWare could have realistically provided story content for eight different stories on a regular basis. There was no way that was going to happen, which is why the game most of its player base in three months and was forced to go F2P. I guess it depends on how one defines "special." I know that I'm excited just from the short demo that we saw. Obviously, we'll need to know more to fully grasp what the game is. I just expect BioWare to use their experience from SWTOR to largely determine what kind of features this online game will have. And that is where we'd agree to disagree. I had an experience like no other, EVER playing the story of the war in SWTOR from all 8 different PoVs with the incredible customization options for EACH character. In my opinion ALL of them were better than pretty much any Bio game's main story save for JE, and taken TOGETHER, they blew every other game way out of the water, and then out f the air.
The POINT was that they INTERACTED, like the Counsular and the Agent were DIRECT ANTAGONISTS, while Hunter and Smuggler had parallels, and how it played differently for them in the imperial and Republic setting, etc, etc, etc. In other words, SWTOR is the best BECAUSE it had those 8 class stories, and would have just another KOTOR if it was two stories.
BioWARE "staples" are very expensive, so the way I see it, all the money that went into 10 romances and banters, and AI for the companions can be re-routed into making the Main into like Hawke on steroids with multiple consistent personalities, different voice, appearances, the game that adapts to what you like doing and NOT punish you for your choice of PvP over PvE or whatever, providing more customized experience. So, every time you load into the game, you get immersed with your Main in your own world/adventure instead of checking off the boxes.
What I saw in the trailer was nothing special to me, because it really just showed power suits flying around the world killing mooks and doing dailies with friends, but told me nothing of how my experience would be. How I would create the character, how s/he would talk, what sort of a path/carrier s/he can pursue, how alive s/he would feel, and how much I can mold her/him and the world into a story I like to experience. I'd really want a protagonist that I can shape a lot more than in the latest games and a game that reacts to my choices a lot more, and I am okay if it comes at the expense of the companions and you get a more developed world characters instead.
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Post by NRieh on Jul 25, 2017 19:57:11 GMT
And I think it's 'a little naive' to pull the assumptions out of nothing. They had not used the word 'party' or 'companion' even once. As for the 'RPG' part -Diablo 3 is technically also an 'RPG', it even had some awards as an 'RPG of the year'.
Bioware does not 'only make party-based RPGs'. Had you forgotten the 1 vs 4 MOBA (shadow-something) which got scraped a couple of years ago? They were about to hit gold already, but it never happened.
So, may be (just may be) it's not me who's being 'little naive', hmm?
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Post by Revan Reborn on Jul 25, 2017 19:58:45 GMT
Past performance is not a guarantee for the future. This is a new IP and they have yet to prove to get Frostbite working on that. So far, their track record has been mixed. There is just too little info to get excited about. Obviously, a VA like Hale is a selling point. I almost bought Long Dark just because of her. While that is true, BioWare rarely deviates from their established model. Their approach to game design is generally to iterate and improve on what they've done previously. I know a lot like to blame Frostbite 3 for BioWare's woes, but I find that as a lame excuse. Go back in BioWare's history and they've always had game development issues, regardless of the engine. DAI was far from perfect, but Frostbite 3 worked just fine for that game. Issues that brought down Andromeda were internal conflicts and nothing more. And that is where we'd agree to disagree. I had an experience like no other, EVER playing the story of the war in SWTOR from all 8 different PoVs with the incredible customization options for EACH character. In my opinion ALL of them were better than pretty much any Bio game's main story save for JE, and taken TOGETHER, they blew every other game way out of the water, and then out f the air.
The POINT was that they INTERACTED, like the Counsular and the Agent were DIRECT ANTAGONISTS, while Hunter and Smuggler had parallels, and how it played differently for them in the imperial and Republic setting, etc, etc, etc. In other words, SWTOR is the best BECAUSE it had those 8 class stories, and would have just another KOTOR if it was two stories.
BioWARE "staples" are very expensive, so the way I see it, all the money that went into 10 romances and banters, and AI for the companions can be re-routed into making the Main into like Hawke on steroids with multiple consistent personalities, different voice, appearances, the game that adapts to what you like doing and NOT punish you for your choice of PvP over PvE or whatever, providing more customized experience. So, every time you load into the game, you get immersed with your Main in your own world/adventure instead of checking off the boxes.
What I saw in the trailer was nothing special to me, because it really just showed power suits flying around the world killing mooks and doing dailies with friends, but told me nothing of how my experience would be. How I would create the character, how s/he would talk, what sort of a path/carrier s/he can pursue, how alive s/he would feel, and how much I can mold her/him and the world into a story I like to experience. I'd really want a protagonist that I can shape a lot more than in the latest games and a game that reacts to my choices a lot more, and I am okay if it comes at the expense of the companions and you get a more developed world characters instead.
I think we are partially disagreeing on two separate issues. From a practical standpoint, making eight separate class stories was idiotic as it wouldn't be sustainable for an MMO. I'm not suggesting I didn't want them to be ambitious with the story. It just was a bad idea for an MMORPG, and it burned BioWare badly. As far as the quality of the storytelling though, we'll just have to agree to disagree there. I don't think any of the class stories rival any of the single player RPGs. You act as if you actually interacted with the other main classes. You did not. Other than occasional mentions or companions knowing other companions (Vette new Risha), that was largely the extent of the interactions. It's a neat little nod to show that all the classes are in the same universe, but I certainly wasn't as impressed by it as you seem to be. I prefer quality over quantity. Honestly, it's easier to do what DAII did. Due to time constraints, most of the companions were romanceable by both genders. Just give four, solid companions with great romances and I think 90% of BioWare fans would be pleased. The problem is when BioWare wants to have particular companions for particular genders or sexual orientations. That's costly and requires more resources, which is why MEA's romances and DAI's romances were so disjointed and unequal. We'll just have to wait and see until BioWare releases more information about Anthem. At the latest, we'll have to wait until E3 next year. However, I have a feeling they may show off more gameplay at The Game Awards this year, which is what they did with MEA last year.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Jul 25, 2017 20:03:01 GMT
And I think it's 'a little naive' to pull the assumptions out of nothing. They had not used the word 'party' or 'companion' even once. As for the 'RPG' part -Diablo 3 is technically also an 'RPG', it even had some awards as an 'RPG of the year'. Bioware does not 'only make party-based RPGs'. Had you forgotten the 1 vs 4 MOBA (shadow-something) which got scraped a couple of years ago? They were about to hit gold already, but it never happened. So, may be (just may be) it's not me who's being 'little naive', hmm? When BioWare uses the term "RPG," they mean a BioWare RPG. That means a story-driven RPG experience with companions. That is literally what a BioWare RPG is and always has been. No, Diablo 3 is not an RPG, even if some will claim it is. That game is nothing more than a mindless dungeon crawl with loot. Shadow Realms was being made by BioWare Austin, not BioWare Edmonton. Not to mention, the game was cancelled because asymmetrical games are almost always terrible. It's also worth noting BioWare Austin was upfront from the start what the gameplay was going to be in Shadow Realms. Really, is your best evidence that Anthem is not a traditional BioWare RPG because of a cancelled project? Well, you'll find out the truth soon enough.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 21:06:26 GMT
Past performance is not a guarantee for the future. This is a new IP and they have yet to prove to get Frostbite working on that. So far, their track record has been mixed. There is just too little info to get excited about. Obviously, a VA like Hale is a selling point. I almost bought Long Dark just because of her. While that is true, BioWare rarely deviates from their established model. Their approach to game design is generally to iterate and improve on what they've done previously. I know a lot like to blame Frostbite 3 for BioWare's woes, but I find that as a lame excuse. Go back in BioWare's history and they've always had game development issues, regardless of the engine. DAI was far from perfect, but Frostbite 3 worked just fine for that game. Issues that brought down Andromeda were internal conflicts and nothing more. And that is where we'd agree to disagree. I had an experience like no other, EVER playing the story of the war in SWTOR from all 8 different PoVs with the incredible customization options for EACH character. In my opinion ALL of them were better than pretty much any Bio game's main story save for JE, and taken TOGETHER, they blew every other game way out of the water, and then out f the air.
The POINT was that they INTERACTED, like the Counsular and the Agent were DIRECT ANTAGONISTS, while Hunter and Smuggler had parallels, and how it played differently for them in the imperial and Republic setting, etc, etc, etc. In other words, SWTOR is the best BECAUSE it had those 8 class stories, and would have just another KOTOR if it was two stories.
BioWARE "staples" are very expensive, so the way I see it, all the money that went into 10 romances and banters, and AI for the companions can be re-routed into making the Main into like Hawke on steroids with multiple consistent personalities, different voice, appearances, the game that adapts to what you like doing and NOT punish you for your choice of PvP over PvE or whatever, providing more customized experience. So, every time you load into the game, you get immersed with your Main in your own world/adventure instead of checking off the boxes.
What I saw in the trailer was nothing special to me, because it really just showed power suits flying around the world killing mooks and doing dailies with friends, but told me nothing of how my experience would be. How I would create the character, how s/he would talk, what sort of a path/carrier s/he can pursue, how alive s/he would feel, and how much I can mold her/him and the world into a story I like to experience. I'd really want a protagonist that I can shape a lot more than in the latest games and a game that reacts to my choices a lot more, and I am okay if it comes at the expense of the companions and you get a more developed world characters instead.
You act as if you actually interacted with the other main classes. You did not. Other than occasional mentions or companions knowing other companions (Vette new Risha), that was largely the extent of the interactions. It's a neat little nod to show that all the classes are in the same universe, but I certainly wasn't as impressed by it as you seem to be. That's because I look at SWTOR's story as a PoV book with all the characters interacting in the same timeframe, rather than taken on its own; it's not 8 stories, it's one with 8 PoVs (and more than 8 tbh, because some stories provide a rather different character). As Sith Warrior leaves Balmorra, Jedi Consular just arrives to recruit Zenith who was just unleashed by the Imperial Agent's machinations; the Belsavis is an absolute blast. The story of SWTOR is not eight individual zero to hero stories. The uniqueness is that it allows you to create a larger story of an interplanetary conflict viewed through the eyes of very different characters - and each of those characters can be extremely variable, far more variable than any other bio game offered (and tbh any other game I've heard of). In every other BioWARE game you play the same story with some key choices that can be tweaked. When you play SWTOR, you switch between the views and goals of so many participants in the same conflict that you get a way more complex and awesome experience. You will not be able to achieve it via one Imperial and one Republic guy like on Makeb. Plus, chances are, they'd pick something like Knight and Warrior stories for it and lost all the other ones that were awesome, about more complex characters, taking the necessity to make every one to be a Special Talented One away.
These multitude of characters I was creating in SWTOR, choosing everything about their background and appearance, attitude, relation to one another, and their individual adventures (FPs, Operations, PvP or GSF) was what made SWTOR so different. They were not clones of one another story-wise with a different skill set. They each had an individual experience, carrier, purpose, relationships. And all together they gave me a "feel" for the world, and a better "gray" attitude than any assertion of the one-sided story that "Templars are really evil but pretend to be good" I have walked as many miles in the shoes of a Republic patriot as I did in an Imperial one, I played a defector, pirate, reluctant hero, Healer, savant, brute, psychopath... I was basically populating the world with my characters, not taking one role and interrogating BioWARe characters.
For me, that makes a principal difference between SWTOR and any other game and that's why 8 stories were so frigging awesome.
Oh, and I love DA2, and would play DA2 style games over DA:I one, and if they started making DA2s or ME2s (or individual class SWTOR story) in all the IP they own, with frequent releases of 20-30 hour long games with a charismatic protagonist, cool plot and small awesome cast with amazing roms (alas, only 30% players like the DA2 approach to romances vs the multitudes in DAI/Andromeda: bsn.boards.net/thread/11043/playersexual-set-orientations ), I'd be the happiest gamer in the universe & never play anything else.
I branch out because nobody produces these kinds of the games. Everyone chases the 100 hrs+ OW monsters with MP, so, well, I adapt, and try to find what I enjoy in their games, and wing the rest.
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Post by NRieh on Jul 25, 2017 21:36:52 GMT
Yeah, well, Baldurs Gates 2 is a 'BioWare RPG', and so is Mass Effect. Or so the cover says. Should I really explain to you how different those games are? (And also how each and every game since NwN got blamed for being 'dumbed down', 'casualized', 'streamlined' and 'not RPG enough')? Don't get me wrong, but I'd rather be cautiously optimistic. Nowadays we can hardly believe in what marketing team does say, believing in something that had never been hinted is a totally dangerous move.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Jul 26, 2017 1:12:52 GMT
That's because I look at SWTOR's story as a PoV book with all the characters interacting in the same timeframe, rather than taken on its own; it's not 8 stories, it's one with 8 PoVs (and more than 8 tbh, because some stories provide a rather different character). As Sith Warrior leaves Balmorra, Jedi Consular just arrives to recruit Zenith who was just unleashed by the Imperial Agent's machinations; the Belsavis is an absolute blast. The story of SWTOR is not eight individual zero to hero stories. The uniqueness is that it allows you to create a larger story of an interplanetary conflict viewed through the eyes of very different characters - and each of those characters can be extremely variable, far more variable than any other bio game offered (and tbh any other game I've heard of). In every other BioWARE game you play the same story with some key choices that can be tweaked. When you play SWTOR, you switch between the views and goals of so many participants in the same conflict that you get a way more complex and awesome experience. You will not be able to achieve it via one Imperial and one Republic guy like on Makeb. Plus, chances are, they'd pick something like Knight and Warrior stories for it and lost all the other ones that were awesome, about more complex characters, taking the necessity to make every one to be a Special Talented One away.
These multitude of characters I was creating in SWTOR, choosing everything about their background and appearance, attitude, relation to one another, and their individual adventures (FPs, Operations, PvP or GSF) was what made SWTOR so different. They were not clones of one another story-wise with a different skill set. They each had an individual experience, carrier, purpose, relationships. And all together they gave me a "feel" for the world, and a better "gray" attitude than any assertion of the one-sided story that "Templars are really evil but pretend to be good" I have walked as many miles in the shoes of a Republic patriot as I did in an Imperial one, I played a defector, pirate, reluctant hero, Healer, savant, brute, psychopath... I was basically populating the world with my characters, not taking one role and interrogating BioWARe characters.
For me, that makes a principal difference between SWTOR and any other game and that's why 8 stories were so frigging awesome.
Oh, and I love DA2, and would play DA2 style games over DA:I one, and if they started making DA2s or ME2s (or individual class SWTOR story) in all the IP they own, with frequent releases of 20-30 hour long games with a charismatic protagonist, cool plot and small awesome cast with amazing roms (alas, only 30% players like the DA2 approach to romances vs the multitudes in DAI/Andromeda: bsn.boards.net/thread/11043/playersexual-set-orientations ), I'd be the happiest gamer in the universe & never play anything else.
I branch out because nobody produces these kinds of the games. Everyone chases the 100 hrs+ OW monsters with MP, so, well, I adapt, and try to find what I enjoy in their games, and wing the rest.
I'm glad you found all eight class stories to be satisfying. I just don't share your opinion on the matter. Also, you can't even really have those "eight different POVs" if you haven't played every class story. I know I have, but many SWTOR players never have gone through every class story. SWTOR's stories were okay, but I found them to be largely uninteresting and most of the companions were forgettable. Smuggler, Knight, and Inquisitor were my personal favorites. Even then, I'd still play KOTOR one and especially KOTOR 2 over those any day. KOTOR 2 isn't even a BioWare game, but it's easily one of my favorite RPGs of all time because the story and characters are that good. BioWare games aren't really known for their moral ambiguity. If that's what you are interested in, I'd recommend The Witcher trilogy by CD Projekt Red, as there are no good or bad decisions, only choices with consequences. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and even Star Wars, have largely always been black and white, good versus evil. It's why KOTOR 2 is my favorite Star Wars game, because it was a deconstruction of the Force and everything we came to understand about it. The whole point of that game was to show that the Jedi, in many ways, were no better than the Sith. In the end, all disciplines of the Force were slaves to the Force. It was enlightening and compelling to have such a dark and insightful story in what has largely been a stagnant universe for decades. I actually really enjoyed the story of DA2. It was far superior to DAI's story. My problem with DA2 was the terrible and simplified gameplay and the short development cycle, leading to a lot of environments being re-used far too often. I'm also an advocate of DA2's player-sexual approach, even though David Gaider would argue that was not the case in the game at all. To be quite honest, allow folks to romance who they want, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, and more folks win out than lose. The DAI and MEA approach always leaves someone unhappy and leads to more drama than anything else. It's a system with no right answers. When open world sandbox RPGs, like Skyrim, sell over 20 million copies (it's still continuing to sell), it makes every other AAA RPG developer want to follow. The Elder Scrolls just so happens to be my favorite franchise, as I love open world sandbox RPGs, but I can understand that they are not for everyone. Yeah, well, Baldurs Gates 2 is a 'BioWare RPG', and so is Mass Effect. Or so the cover says. Should I really explain to you how different those games are? (And also how each and every game since NwN got blamed for being 'dumbed down', 'casualized', 'streamlined' and 'not RPG enough')? Don't get me wrong, but I'd rather be cautiously optimistic. Nowadays we can hardly believe in what marketing team does say, believing in something that had never been hinted is a totally dangerous move. Baldur's Gate is classic BioWare. Mass Effect is modern BioWare. From a foundational standpoint, however, BioWare has always had story-driven games with companions. That has been the case since the very beginning. Every RPG designer that has garnered success and became mainstream has been accused of "dumbing down" and "casualzing" their games. It's no different with BGS and The Elder Scrolls. Skyrim is BGS' most successful RPG to date, yet many will argue (with a lot of valid points) that Skyrim is far more casual than Oblivion, and Oblivion is far more casual than Morrowind, and Morrowind is far more casual than Daggerfall, etc. That's fine. There's nothing wrong with being cautiously optimistic. I'm just not expecting BioWare to throw us a curve ball. What I am expect is for them to use past experiences and lessons as a building base for Anthem. Once we know more about the game, we'll have a better idea of BioWare's direction for it.
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Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Jul 26, 2017 15:38:20 GMT
Yeah, well, Baldurs Gates 2 is a 'BioWare RPG', and so is Mass Effect. Or so the cover says. Should I really explain to you how different those games are? (And also how each and every game since NwN got blamed for being 'dumbed down', 'casualized', 'streamlined' and 'not RPG enough')? Don't get me wrong, but I'd rather be cautiously optimistic. Nowadays we can hardly believe in what marketing team does say, believing in something that had never been hinted is a totally dangerous move. That goes both ways though. I mean, I've seen people take the demo we saw as proof that pretty much all the trappings of Bioware single player experience would be abandoned in Anthem, completely ignoring that the demo was clearly aimed to convince the Destiny/Division fan bases to take notice with exacting precision. That doesn't mean the opposite is true, but keep in mind the marketing message Bioware is trying to get across (And remember how they have a habit of presenting most of their games as anything but an RPG in marketing. They know the dedicated RPG fans will probably buy, it's everyone else they feel they need to convince)
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 26, 2017 16:37:27 GMT
As I said before, other than Jedi Knight, Smuggler, Sith Inquisitior, and maybe Bounty Hunter, the rest of the class stories were forgettable or just bad, in my opinion. Mentions Bounty Hunter but omits Agent as good story.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Jul 26, 2017 17:13:08 GMT
Mentions Bounty Hunter but omits Agent as good story. I hated the Imperial Agent story. It was by far the dumbest class story in the entire game. It was nothing but betrayals and back-stabs, with more betrayals and back-stabs on top of that... To top it off, your main "antagonist" wasn't even a male, but was actually a female in disguise, and he loved you even though he tried to kill you for half the story!!!! Sorry, but I was cracking up hysterically with how horribly bad the Agent story was. It came across as bad fan fiction more than anything clever or engaging. Obviously, the lead writer on the Agent class has no self-respect for himself. My only concern is that he's also a listed writer for Anthem. I just hope he doesn't fill the game with more trash storytelling, like the entire Agent class story in SWTOR.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 26, 2017 18:42:08 GMT
I hated the Imperial Agent story. It was by far the dumbest class story in the entire game. It was nothing but betrayals and back-stabs, with more betrayals and back-stabs on top of that... To top it off, your main "antagonist" wasn't even a male, but was actually a female in disguise, and he loved you even though he tried to kill you for half the story!!!! Sorry, but I was cracking up hysterically with how horribly bad the Agent story was. It came across as bad fan fiction more than anything clever or engaging. Obviously, the lead writer on the Agent class has no self-respect for himself. My only concern is that he's also a listed writer for Anthem. I just hope he doesn't fill the game with more trash storytelling, like the entire Agent class story in SWTOR.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 26, 2017 19:19:10 GMT
As I said before, other than Jedi Knight, Smuggler, Sith Inquisitior, and maybe Bounty Hunter, the rest of the class stories were forgettable or just bad, in my opinion. Mentions Bounty Hunter but omits Agent as good story. Meh, didn't have Hale's voice.
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Post by CrutchCricket on Jul 26, 2017 20:03:47 GMT
Meh, didn't have Hale's voice. Jo Wyatt is better in every way.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Jul 26, 2017 20:08:12 GMT
That goes both ways though. I mean, I've seen people take the demo we saw as proof that pretty much all the trappings of Bioware single player experience would be abandoned in Anthem, completely ignoring that the demo was clearly aimed to convince the Destiny/Division fan bases to take notice with exacting precision. That doesn't mean the opposite is true, but keep in mind the marketing message Bioware is trying to get across (And remember how they have a habit of presenting most of their games as anything but an RPG in marketing. They know the dedicated RPG fans will probably buy, it's everyone else they feel they need to convince) This is a good point. BioWare is always looking to expand their audience, and Anthem is another attempt at that as it's something new and fresh. I do think the demo was more to show non-BioWare fans that this might be a game they are interested in. However, I wouldn't assume that BioWare is throwing the baby out with the bathwater because it didn't focus on dialogue choices and companions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 21:42:02 GMT
It's kindda funny how completely diverse the wants and tastes are. I really am absolutely not someone who's ever going to enjoy the Witcher, there is nothing in that game that appeals to me, and I liked both SWTOR and koror 2, while koror 1-not that much. In the IA story, I actually did not like it because it did not really support my choices on my first PT, and was incredibly out of my mind incensed by Hunter turning out into a female because this romance was one thing I did like about the story, and denying that romance to a female pc to save money on one VO line was just dumb. Second time I liked it better, but I was playing a very different character, knowing in advance what to expect. And, well, a male, obviously.
Honestly, though, if SWTOR was made into B2P sp title with them packaging all those new chapters as a follow-up of the initial campaign, I'd replay it with one of my fav class stories.
As for Anthem, who knows. But, tbh, Hale's voice would not hurt it in any way.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Jul 27, 2017 3:28:10 GMT
It's kindda funny how completely diverse the wants and tastes are. I really am absolutely not someone who's ever going to enjoy the Witcher, there is nothing in that game that appeals to me, and I liked both SWTOR and koror 2, while koror 1-not that much. In the IA story, I actually did not like it because it did not really support my choices on my first PT, and was incredibly out of my mind incensed by Hunter turning out into a female because this romance was one thing I did like about the story, and denying that romance to a female pc to save money on one VO line was just dumb. Second time I liked it better, but I was playing a very different character, knowing in advance what to expect. And, well, a male, obviously. Honestly, though, if SWTOR was made into B2P sp title with them packaging all those new chapters as a follow-up of the initial campaign, I'd replay it with one of my fav class stories. As for Anthem, who knows. But, tbh, Hale's voice would not hurt it in any way. That's fair. You brought up morally ambiguous stories, so I thought The Witcher series might appeal to you. As you pointed out, Dragon Age can be pretty black and white with Templars vs Mages. If you feel that The Witcher is not for you, then I'm sure you have your valid reasons for having that stance. KOTOR 1 has a really predictable Star Wars story, other than the plot twist. I think that is the primary reason so many love the original KOTOR. Personally, I think KOTOR 2 is a far superior game, even though Obsidian wasn't able to finish it. I believe the story, characters, and gameplay are all vast improvements over KOTOR 1. Yeah. I think Hunter's character was just horribly butchered at the end. It was a denial for female agents who wanted that relationship, and it was a strange "hey, romance option at the last minute" for male agents that didn't even know Hunter was an option. It was just strange and confusing all around, which is part of the reason I cannot say the agent story is good. I really don't understand why so many always praise that particular class story. Unfortunately for SWTOR, I don't believe it's ever going to have great storytelling at this point. The Fallen Empire and Eternal Throne stuff was better than the previous expansions, but it's just not enough content to keep me interested in playing that game. I don't understand the criticisms directed at Hale. Perhaps it's just the contrarians that want to stand out? She's a BioWare veteran, and I wouldn't be against her voicing the female freelancer in Anthem.
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Post by Wulfram on Jul 27, 2017 11:55:58 GMT
I wouldn't want the Anthem protagonist's voice to be too similar to Shepard's. Though Hale has a good amount of range, so that's not necessarily a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 12:17:47 GMT
I wouldn't want the Anthem protagonist's voice to be too similar to Shepard's. Though Hale has a good amount of range, so that's not necessarily a problem. I guess, I see the point. Not just Shepard, but also the Trooper. I can see how folks would want something distinctively different, since the protagonist is unlikely to have a strong identity, so it would be "so, my Shepard put he suit on..." but then, well, maybe these secret cross-overs/bridges are actually not a bad thing since so many really, really are attached to Shepard... in in terms of morally ambiguos, I actually do not like that, I like clear cut choices with clear consequences. What I liked in SWTOR was that I can play different characters in the same world so I saw different PoV and was able to see both the republic and the empire, etc. But each of these chars had clear moral choices. And each of those chars was all mine with tons of customization, including the ability to create both a male and a female, depending on my mood. And each story was compact and focused. So, that's why W games are not really for me, with the ambiguity, the extreme focus on OW, very long game, no choice but to play Geralt, no support cast characters that immediately appeal, and the been there, done that medieval setting with inequality of genders built in and highlighted by the presentation. in terms of KOTOR1vs 2, it's simply dialogue and cast that won my heart in the second, but was nothing spectacular in the first. I did play the second with restored content mod, so, I am sure it was better than released version. Yeah, it may be silly, but I strongly prefer the games where there is a support cast member that i can totally fall digitally in love with. And most games don't really offer much selection of male chars of power, awesomeness, handsomeness and charisma since, you know, that's what your PC is.
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