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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 2:43:53 GMT
phoray I've advanced the plot a lot today and I don't think Issy is coming back. My points are just all over the place. Varric doesn't like personal interaction with my Hawke, but he seems to approve of almost all her actions. His meter keeps sliding back and forth. Same thing with Aveline. Issy was all iffy too. I did get solid rivalry with Merill and Anders. I've chosen the Templars. Fenris got all passionate. :amirite: None of the party members have chosen to abandon me. Well... none of those alive.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 20, 2017 10:36:34 GMT
phoray I've advanced the plot a lot today and I don't think Issy is coming back. My points are just all over the place. Varric doesn't like personal interaction with my Hawke, but he seems to approve of almost all her actions. His meter keeps sliding back and forth. Same thing with Aveline. Issy was all iffy too. I did get solid rivalry with Merill and Anders. I've chosen the Templars. Fenris got all passionate. None of the party members have chosen to abandon me. Well... none of those alive. Merrill doesn't leave Hawke, if Hawke kills Anders, no matter if she in the neutral zone. (Need a mage in the group.) Aveline's pro-templar (mostly), at least pro shitty law (at least when she want...), Varric rather pro-Templar than pro-Mage, because he loves the peace, and he sees, the Templars can restore the order in the city, and protect people. Templar side so easy to keep the companions. Fenris passionate at mage side as well. Fenris IS passionate in every situation – especially in the rivalry (true, more restrained, than Anders). And at mage side, he's sweet much more, than at Templar side (and he's even more enthusiastic than Varric, Varric expresses his doubts about Hawke's choice before the last battle, but Fenris not anymore). Isabela's rivalry is hard. I'm afraid she will not return I simply can't play as humorless or/and boring lawful/morality keeper character. And I thought, Aveline's rivalry will be easier than Varric's, but this is not true. (I hope she will not turn against Hawke at the last battle, though it would be an interesting experience.)
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Post by phoray on Oct 20, 2017 12:01:36 GMT
phoray I've advanced the plot a lot today and I don't think Issy is coming back. My points are just all over the place. Varric doesn't like personal interaction with my Hawke, but he seems to approve of almost all her actions. His meter keeps sliding back and forth. Same thing with Aveline. Issy was all iffy too. I did get solid rivalry with Merill and Anders. I've chosen the Templars. Fenris got all passionate. :amirite: None of the party members have chosen to abandon me. Well... none of those alive. In Act 2, Isabella leaves no matter what. But if you have enough points, I think 60-80 in either direction, she will have a change of heart. Her return would be just before the battle with the Arishok in the same act. It's heartwarming. I hadn't known Merrill would be forced to stay (by the writers') if you kill Anders although it sounds familiar. If you had not killed Anders, both Sebastian and Merrill would have left for siding Templars. If all your characters had high or max points, they would have stayed with you no matter which side you chose. Fenris will express doubt about siding mages. But if he loves you as friend or lover, he will stay beside you anyway. Fenris coming round to protect mages in spite of his previous life is one of the most beautiful arcs. I love Fenris. He is my tie for #1 love interest with Alistair.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 12:44:30 GMT
I'm guessing the more companions we keep the easier fights will be. Right now I'm getting through boss fights in normal and they are kicking my butt. It's one really hard fight after another. I'm concerned I'll run out of potions. While I like Issy, I couldn't keep her in the pt due to her skills not being needed with rogue Hawke even if I wanted to hear more of her banter because that one's priceless. This one is not my worst loss. *sigh* I felt it was inevitable with Anders the way this game was structured but I thought it was going to be much easier and I'd be so angry, but it was heartbreaking. I don't think I'll be able to do it again in any other game. I've... orphaned the kitties. Wait... do I have life insurance... Oh shit, Cati is here. I need to hide.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 20, 2017 14:08:02 GMT
I'm guessing the more companions we keep the easier fights will be. Right now I'm getting through boss fights in normal and they are kicking my butt. It's one really hard fight after another. I'm concerned I'll run out of potions. While I like Issy, I couldn't keep her in the pt due to her skills not being needed with rogue Hawke even if I wanted to hear more of her banter because that one's priceless. This one is not my worst loss. *sigh* I felt it was inevitable with Anders the way this game was structured but I thought it was going to be much easier and I'd be so angry, but it was heartbreaking. I don't think I'll be able to do it again in any other game. I've... orphaned the kitties. Wait... do I have life insurance... Oh shit, Cati is here. I need to hide. Hey, I'm not that bad! Down the difficulty to casual (or make a spirit healer next time!), if too hard, and you can kill Anders.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 14:14:51 GMT
I'm guessing the more companions we keep the easier fights will be. Right now I'm getting through boss fights in normal and they are kicking my butt. It's one really hard fight after another. I'm concerned I'll run out of potions. While I like Issy, I couldn't keep her in the pt due to her skills not being needed with rogue Hawke even if I wanted to hear more of her banter because that one's priceless. This one is not my worst loss. *sigh* I felt it was inevitable with Anders the way this game was structured but I thought it was going to be much easier and I'd be so angry, but it was heartbreaking. I don't think I'll be able to do it again in any other game. I've... orphaned the kitties. Wait... do I have life insurance... Oh shit, Cati is here. I need to hide. Hey, I'm not that bad! Down the difficulty to casual (or make a pirit healer next time!), if too hard, and you can kill Anders. You cruel person, leaving me alive to suffer guilty conscience. Maybe I wanted you to chase me around the forum with pointy, scratchy objects. NEVA! Easy difficulty is insulting to my honour! I shall live through the normal mode even if it kills me!
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Post by phoray on Oct 20, 2017 14:50:03 GMT
I'm guessing the more companions we keep the easier fights will be. Right now I'm getting through boss fights in normal and they are kicking my butt. It's one really hard fight after another. I'm concerned I'll run out of potions. While I like Issy, I couldn't keep her in the pt due to her skills not being needed with rogue Hawke even if I wanted to hear more of her banter because that one's priceless. This one is not my worst loss. *sigh* I felt it was inevitable with Anders the way this game was structured but I thought it was going to be much easier and I'd be so angry, but it was heartbreaking. I don't think I'll be able to do it again in any other game. I've... orphaned the kitties. Wait... do I have life insurance... Oh shit, Cati is here. I need to hide. I dunno about easier. Rogues are just the least useful class in DA2 I found, and once I was one myself, Varric and Isabella just wasn't with me at all my first PT. But Varric loves every word out of Sarc Hawke's mouth and most of what Diplo Hawke says gets points. The only Hawke he doesn't like is Aggressive Mercenary Hawke. So all the cut scenes discussions got him to max easy without me bringing him anywhere. But Isabella is a bit selfish. I consider her the trickiest person to max in any direction. She loves a Hawke that helps her and flirts. But she doesn't like a do gooder Hawke, she's a bit Morrigan like. "Help ME but don't help anyone else." I considered it an accomplishment that I got her to come back my third play through. Her act 3 dialogue was so damn sweet, I kinda fell in love with her and found the effort quite worth it.
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Post by phoray on Oct 20, 2017 14:56:14 GMT
And oh yeah. It took me playing my Evil Dexter Murder Hawke to kill Anders.
I still cried. The way his eyes moved around as he lay dying, seemed like he was looking for someone to hold him as he passed from this world. And there was no one. Like he was frightened of death just before the light passed from his eyes.
I'll just exile him now and let Sebastian bitch
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Post by Catilina on Oct 20, 2017 16:09:33 GMT
Hey, I'm not that bad! Down the difficulty to casual (or make a spirit healer next time!), if too hard, and you can kill Anders. You cruel person, leaving me alive to suffer guilty conscience. Maybe I wanted you to chase me around the forum with pointy, scratchy objects. NEVA! Easy difficulty is insulting to my honour! I shall live through the normal mode even if it kills me! Well. I just hoped, you will kill Anders in this Templar run.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 17:12:02 GMT
And oh yeah. It took me playing my Evil Dexter Murder Hawke to kill Anders. I still cried. The way his eyes moved around as he lay dying, seemed like he was looking for someone to hold him as he passed from this world. And there was no one. Like he was frightened of death just before the light passed from his eyes. I'll just exile him now and let Sebastian bitch Anders did need someone to hold him. He suffered this harrowing loneliness. I didn't see it as a fear of death, more like fearing in death that he wouldn't be heard after everything he's done because both of his allies the mages and Hawke had denounced him. I felt like Justice wasn't with him either because when Hawke asked him if the spirit was responsible, he said that Justice died long ago when they merged and he was the one who wanted it. Catilina That was decisively evil of you to want that. No likes for you.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 20, 2017 17:25:20 GMT
And oh yeah. It took me playing my Evil Dexter Murder Hawke to kill Anders. I still cried. The way his eyes moved around as he lay dying, seemed like he was looking for someone to hold him as he passed from this world. And there was no one. Like he was frightened of death just before the light passed from his eyes. I'll just exile him now and let Sebastian bitch Anders did need someone to hold him. He suffered this harrowing loneliness. I didn't see it as a fear of death, more like fearing in death that he wouldn't be heard after everything he's done because both of his allies the mages and Hawke had denounced him. I felt like Justice wasn't with his either because when Hawke asked him if the spirit was responsible, he said that Justice died long ago when they merged and he was the one who wanted it. Catilina That was decisively evil of you to want that. No likes for you. Evil? It's a mercy killing! He can not live with this burden, inside with a(n already probably) hostile spirit (demon?) crushed and alone. Forcing him to turn against his people is evil. He take this as penitence, but he tell Hawke, he will die. At Gallows he says good bye to Hawke. Many people forcing him to support Mereith, because want him to suffer more.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 17:49:18 GMT
I thought Anders would attack Hawke if he chooses to side with the Templars. There is also the exile option.
He's in pain because he believes that after his act any other help he would offer would be turned down and because he's afraid that no matter how much he had done it was still futile. There are different kinds of defeats. It's one thing to believe 'I can't do anything about this' and then you don't do anything about this. And another comes to him when Justice makes an offer and raises his hopes that he could make a difference. After he tries everything, every resource - he still comes to defeat. That is far more crushing. If you let Anders live he would see eventually that his act did make a difference. He could bear the burden of guilt and deal with Justice if he believed that selling his soul to the devil was still meaningful. He knows what he's done is terrible, but he can't bring himself to regret blowing up the church even when he's resigned. It was his last resort.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 20, 2017 18:28:02 GMT
I thought Anders would attack Hawke if he chooses to side with the Templars. There is also the exile option. He's in pain because he believes that after his act any other help he would offer would be turned down and because he's afraid that no matter how much he had done it was still futile. There are different kinds of defeats. It's one thing to believe 'I can't do anything about this' and then you don't do anything about this. And another comes to him when Justice makes an offer and raises his hopes that he could make a difference. After he tries everything, every resource - he still comes to defeat. That is far more crushing. If you let Anders live he would see eventually that his act did make a difference. He could bear the burden of guilt and deal with Justice if he believed that selling his soul to the devil was still meaningful. He knows what he's done is terrible, but he can't bring himself to regret blowing up the church even when he's resigned. It was his last resort. Exile is a good choice. He will back, and fight for his own people, and he die in this fight. This is a good end to him. (I don't know, this happen in rivalry or not, I hope, he has enough strength for his last battle.) If he's totally crushed, he able to give up himself. He give up everything what he believe. This is awful to me. He doesn't happy with the the explosion, even if he believe, that this is the only solution to achieve his goal. He able to pay for it. He's still not a monster. (In rivalry, he's more unstable, and Justice has more chance to become a demon.) In friendship he able to take the responsibility for his act. In rivalry he passes every responsibility to Justice. And: in this case, he already doesn't believe anything anymore. His whole life goes to the garbage, no matter, he was right. But of course to crush his faith as a templar-hearted Hawke is natural. But saying that all it is for him: just... wrong to me.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 18:50:18 GMT
In my opinion the most benign option if you side with the Templars is to exile him. I didn't even know he'd side with Hawke if Hawke goes for Templars, but that sounds horrible making him kill mages. I never considered making him side with Meredith.
Actually, in this game he was in rivalry with me, but Anders blamed himself. He said, 'I wanted it.' I don't know where Justice is at that moment because Anders seem so utterly alone. I wander if Justice was also so hurt that he retreated very deep into the recess of his mind.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 20, 2017 19:14:19 GMT
In my opinion the most benign option if you side with the Templars is to exile him. I didn't even know he'd side with Hawke if Hawke goes for Templars, but that sounds horrible making him kill mages. I never considered making him side with Meredith. Actually, in this game he was in rivalry with me, but Anders blamed himself. He said, 'I wanted it.' I don't know where Justice is at that moment because Anders seem so utterly alone. I wander if Justice was also so hurt that he retreated very deep into the recess of his mind. The opportunity, that Hawke able forces him to support Meredith, was a subsequent decision, arrived in a patch. I can't decide, I like this opportunity, or not, rather not. "Vengeance took me over, I couldn't stop him. [...] I made my friend a demon, and he did this" (At Gallows) Yes, Justice retreated. This can proove, that he accept Hawke's verdict whatever is this. Their goal fulfilled at the moment, and the victims deserves Justice as well (Anders–Isabela banter). Seems, he's not a demon. (Vengeance or Justice, the borders alwas blurred...) Or... Anders was able to control him. There's many explanation!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 19:54:46 GMT
I don't like the killing option because when Anders dies, we can see his entire life flash before his eyes and it's full of pain. In killing him, you are taking away his chance however small at seeing past pain.
However, at that moment he is ready to die. This action brings him peace. It also gives chance to Justice to return to the Fade and heal/be reborn hopefully as a benign spirit. Like you said, it's a mercy killing.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 20, 2017 20:03:19 GMT
I don't like the killing option because when Anders dies, we can see his entire life flash before his eyes and it's full of pain. In killing him, you are taking away his chance however small at seeing past pain. However, at that moment he is ready to die. This action brings him peace. It also gives chance to Justice to return to the Fade and heal/be reborn hopefully as a benign spirit. Like you said, it's a mercy killing. This is why I said, I hope you'll kill him. (And I don't know, what he do, if Hawke send him away, in rivalry.) "He wants to die. Kill him, and we're done here" (Fenris – oh, my practical love!)
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Post by phoray on Oct 20, 2017 22:42:56 GMT
I'm actually more angry at Anders sitting there waiting to die than I am that he blew up the Chantry.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 20, 2017 22:55:23 GMT
I'm actually more angry at Anders sitting there waiting to die than I am that he blew up the Chantry. What should he do? Okay, probably would better if he at first help to kill the Templars, but I suppose, he was really shocked. I don't think, he even was prepared for this. One thing, that he knew, what will happen, but just knowing something, or face it, not same.
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Post by phoray on Oct 21, 2017 0:50:53 GMT
I'm actually more angry at Anders sitting there waiting to die than I am that he blew up the Chantry. What should he do? Okay, probably would better if he at first help to kill the Templars, but I suppose, he was really shocked. I don't think, he even was prepared for this. One thing, that he knew, what will happen, but just knowing something, or face it, not same. He expected Hawke to kill him. It just showed how little he cared about Hawke
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 0:53:40 GMT
I was angry with Anders during Act 2 and 3. I thought I'd be angry at the moment when he breaks the balance, but I think this was the effect that I've already spent all that bitterness just as he depleted his energy. I suppose we both felt empty at that moment.
I'm curious what sparks your anger the most?
edit: Oh, it was different for me I suppose because it sounds like your Hawke invested into their friendship more. But, can you still talk about it a bit more?
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Post by Catilina on Oct 21, 2017 1:28:14 GMT
What should he do? Okay, probably would better if he at first help to kill the Templars, but I suppose, he was really shocked. I don't think, he even was prepared for this. One thing, that he knew, what will happen, but just knowing something, or face it, not same. He expected Hawke to kill him. It just showed how little he cared about Hawke An interesting viewpoint. In the rivalry, of course, he expected that. What else? "I’ll never understand how you can be so antagonistic by day, and so passionate by night." I don't think, he ever really believes, that Hawke loves him. In the friendship, it's a bit harder probably he knew, Hawke how much love him, and probably knew, that Hawke also stands with the mages, perhaps share his passion. But probably he even though, that what he did, is hard to forgive if at all ... The people wanted his head And he lied to Hawke, he concealed his plan from him/her. He knew, what he caused. What else should he expect? But what he should do? To resist? That would not right. He committed murder, he needs to pay for it: this is justice.
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Post by phoray on Oct 21, 2017 1:36:46 GMT
That's too much to ask of Hawke.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 21, 2017 1:42:08 GMT
That's too much to ask of Hawke. Yes, it is. I suppose he didn't want to die, in friendship. He just was able to accept the verdict. He didn't ask for anything. In the rivalry, he wanted to die, really, and I suppose, he thought Hawke wants to kill him. What else? Hawke seems never loved him. So: in the rivalry, I don't think he thought this is too much to ask. Sebastian was, who asked Hawke to kill him. In fact, he blackmailed Hawke...
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Post by phoray on Oct 21, 2017 1:51:50 GMT
That's too much to ask of Hawke. Yes, it is. I suppose he didn't want to die, in friendship. He just was able to accept the verdict. He didn't ask for anything. In the rivalry, he wanted to die, really, and I suppose, he thought Hawke wants to kill him. What else? Hawke seems never loved him. So: in the rivalry, I don't think he thought this is too much to ask. Sebastian was, who asked Hawke to kill him. In fact, he blackmailed Hawke... The first time I played, I Friendship romanced him and did not have Sebastian. Either side, Anders expected Hawke to execute him. It's abhorrent to expect a lover who's already lost so much to kill you.
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