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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 20, 2017 16:16:04 GMT
There's a significant amount of salt out there following the abandonment of MEA DLC.
Do you think this will affect the build up to Anthem, is that launch sufficiently far away for water to have flowed under the bridge?
Or will every Anthem comments thread and YouTube be filled with 'my face hurts'...?
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Post by DragonRacer on Aug 20, 2017 16:35:42 GMT
It's certainly worrisome at the moment. For months I've seen Tweet remarks from fans angry that Mass Effect was seemingly being shoved aside in favor of Anthem. That's only increased ten-fold with yesterday's announcement regarding MEA's "death". But, I also recognize that is entirely anecdotal and a few angry tweets does not an army make.
There's just not much known of Anthem to get a good feel for it, and what IS known has some worrisome elements (feeling like BioWare arriving "late" to the shooter MMO style game niche, online-only, seeing a microtransaction-filled future on the horizon).
I mean, as much as I adored ME3MP, kinda liked DAIMP, and sorta enjoyed MEAMP for a short period of time, I'm someone that has largely given BioWare's MP elements a good college try and have mostly enjoyed them more than not (and was downright loyal and fanatical to ME3MP). I should likely be their exact target demographic for Anthem as far as luring existing fans in... and the fact that I feel leery and only lukewarm to the idea of Anthem certainly raises red flags in the back of my mind.
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Post by smilesja on Aug 20, 2017 16:37:34 GMT
Yeah, I think so.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 16:56:13 GMT
I am going to excessive a self-restraint and not comment on Anthem once they start the marketing train rolling. Overall, I think I prefer even the exceptionally shiny armor of DA to the power-suits setting (despite being sick & tired from medieval shtick) & nothing that I have seen makes the new setting interesting, particularly vs Faerun, Thedas, Jade Empire, Star Wars and Mass Effect. To me this is the biggest concern, right after "will I get motion sick?" I am open to trying any mechanics in a game that has a setting that is captivating. But power suits... I just... I dunno. Can they make it non-boring to me? I have never seen a work of fiction where I liked the power-suits. Iron man maybe, but not that much...
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Post by ShadowAngel on Aug 20, 2017 19:04:28 GMT
I think it will stop some bioware fans from buying, but I honestly don't even think the game is really meant for your average bioware fan so I doubt it'll hurt to much.
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Post by Hrungr on Aug 20, 2017 19:05:35 GMT
I think being ~15 months away from release will help. There will undoubtedly be a certain segment of the BW fandom who will not touch this game because of the controversy around MEA, but I don't see that really impacting the (potential) success (or not) of the game. The buzz in general so far has been very positive. Even what little we've seen has garnered interest among the Destiny crowd. And considering the release of those games are a year apart, I think it'll bring in bored Destiny players wanting to try something new & shiny.
BW just needs to be careful about what they show and when. Since the game is long ways out yet, you really want to try to avoid showing vertical slices that might get cut, altered in some undesirable way, or downgraded in the final game.
There are certainly lessons to be learned from MEA, and we can only hope they can avoid any major controversy. For myself, I am cautiously optimistic. What we've seen looks very cool, and I'm hoping it's just the tip of the iceberg.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 20, 2017 19:18:44 GMT
Yep, already I'm seeing posts elsewhere on the internet along the lines of:
"Anthem will get no love from me. I think that everyone's face will be tired of Anthem before it is even released."
Irrespective of the game's quality, I'm expecting a rough ride wherever people can comment. Particularly if EA run a soulless promotional marketing campaign.
That's not to say there won't be many enthusiasts, but those with opposing views will be there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 19:53:37 GMT
Yeah, that's why I want to do my best to step back and let those who would like it, like it. I am sure it will have its merits.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 20, 2017 20:12:40 GMT
In the grand scheme of things, it won't matter. I convinced myself by doing this thought experiment. Let's say every single person who bought MEA boycotts Anthem. Would that matter? I don't think so. In terms of first week unit sales, MEA is widely quoted as selling 1.05 million in retail physical units, all platforms, worldwide. That doesn't account for pre-sales or downloads, but makes it easier to compare to another benchmark apples-to-apple.s The equivalent unit sales for Destiny were 4.3 million in retail physical units (set query to 13th September 2014), all platforms, worldwide. So in the absolute worst case scenario where 100% of MEA purchasers are also 100% represented by Destiny sales numbers and end up 100% boycotting, Anthem could still expect to sell something in the neighborhood of 3.0 million copies the first week. That is a successful 1.0 game launch by any measure. Of course, using Destiny as an estimate of the total available market for Anthem is a bit of a leap of faith, as are the assumptions of 100% everything always, but let's remember the primary reason why EA wanted Bioware to make Anthem in the first place: to go after a larger audience. So they can afford to lose some Bioware fans and still make one of the most successful games in Bioware history, at least in terms of first week unit sales. Marketing is always a numbers game.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 20, 2017 20:26:51 GMT
EDIT: Nevermind, I wasn't caught up on the MEA "no SP in-game story content" announcement.
Here's a related question: will releasing any kind of DLC for MEA help or hurt Anthem, in terms of public opinion? Is there a sweet spot that is at least X months from Anthem's release, and no closer, where a MEA DLC release could head-off any boycott? And might even encourage more people to buy Anthem?
And what kind of DLC? A DLC release with serious SP content could backfire, if it fails to meet expectations. The Citadel DLC, which I thought was brilliant, spectacularly failed to mitigate the pitchforks and torches over the original ME3 ending. People are still salty about that to this day. A gear and looks DLC release might even be worse than a poorly execute SP content release, seeming to be a money grab for people desperate to save the quarians.
It's not even clear whether a completely free DLC release, of either type, would be a sufficient olive branch. Maybe multiple free DLC releases ...
Given the potential blowback, I wonder if there might be something to those complaining about Anthem undermining MEA DLC effort. It's may not just be a matter of limited resources. I might be PR damage-control to shelter Anthem.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2017 20:51:56 GMT
Ah, haters gonna hate, no matter what happens. DLC would have pleased the folks who already enjoyed the game, and the message I get from its cancellation is that it was just too few. So, as annoying and counterintuitive as it is to acknowledge one's own insignificance, Anthem is going be just fine.
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Post by Wulfram on Aug 20, 2017 20:56:30 GMT
I don't think the "abandonment" of MEA will be a problem, but the general air of hostility towards Bioware won't help much.
Of course loads of people seem to hate Destiny and that still sells like crazy, so it probably doesn't matter all that much.
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Post by Hrungr on Aug 20, 2017 21:09:49 GMT
Here's a related question: will releasing any kind of DLC for MEA help or hurt Anthem, in terms of public opinion? Is there a sweet spot that is at least X months from Anthem's release, and no closer, where a MEA DLC release could head-off any boycott? And might even encourage more people to buy Anthem? And what kind of DLC? A DLC release with serious SP content could backfire, if it fails to meet expectations. The Citadel DLC, which I thought was brilliant, spectacularly failed to mitigate the pitchforks and torches over the original ME3 ending. People are still salty about that to this day. A gear and looks DLC release might even be worse than a poorly execute SP content release, seeming to be a money grab for people desperate to save the quarians. It's not even clear whether a completely free DLC release, of either type, would be a sufficient olive branch. Maybe multiple free DLC releases ... Given the potential blowback, I wonder if there might be something to those complaining about Anthem undermining MEA DLC effort. It's may not just be a matter of limited resources. I might be PR damage-control to shelter Anthem. It's worth pointing out that there is some evidence now to suggest SP DLC was never in the cards for MEA... www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=246542488&postcount=549Alpha PhoenixI know someone who has connections to the studio, and apparently story DLC was never planned in the first place.Jason SchreierThis is what I have heard as well.
I'm not sure single-player DLC has been profitable for many game companies in recent years, which is why you're seeing publishers trend toward standalone expansions like Uncharted Lost Legacy and Dishonored: Death of the Outsider. Although I suspect any talk of DLC or standalone expansions are largely moot in BW's case as the Montreal studio is now gone and they seem to have their hands full with what they have already... Even if they did put out some extra content, I can't see some immense amount of goodwill suddenly pouring out towards Anthem in response that would genuinely impact their sales. Though in the same token, I don't foresee the numbers genuinely boycotting Anthem to be large enough to impact them in any significant way anyway. And if Anthem and DA4 wind up being commercial failures, BioWare as studio would very likely be in jeopardy, so in the end it's self-defeating.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 20, 2017 21:18:29 GMT
Here's a related question: will releasing any kind of DLC for MEA help or hurt Anthem, in terms of public opinion? Is there a sweet spot that is at least X months from Anthem's release, and no closer, where a MEA DLC release could head-off any boycott? And might even encourage more people to buy Anthem? And what kind of DLC? A DLC release with serious SP content could backfire, if it fails to meet expectations. The Citadel DLC, which I thought was brilliant, spectacularly failed to mitigate the pitchforks and torches over the original ME3 ending. People are still salty about that to this day. A gear and looks DLC release might even be worse than a poorly execute SP content release, seeming to be a money grab for people desperate to save the quarians. It's not even clear whether a completely free DLC release, of either type, would be a sufficient olive branch. Maybe multiple free DLC releases ... Given the potential blowback, I wonder if there might be something to those complaining about Anthem undermining MEA DLC effort. It's may not just be a matter of limited resources. I might be PR damage-control to shelter Anthem. It's worth pointing out that there is some evidence now to suggest SP DLC was never in the cards for MEA... www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=246542488&postcount=549Alpha PhoenixI know someone who has connections to the studio, and apparently story DLC was never planned in the first place.Jason SchreierThis is what I have heard as well.
I'm not sure single-player DLC has been profitable for many game companies in recent years, which is why you're seeing publishers trend toward standalone expansions like Uncharted Lost Legacy and Dishonored: Death of the Outsider. Although I suspect any talk of DLC or standalone expansions are largely moot in BW's case as the Montreal studio is now gone and they seem to have their hands full with what they have already... Even if they did put out some extra content, I can't see some immense amount of goodwill suddenly pouring out towards Anthem in response that would genuinely impact their sales. Though in the same token, I don't foresee the numbers genuinely boycotting Anthem to be large enough to impact them in any significant way anyway. And if Anthem and DA4 wind up being commercial failures, BioWare as studio would very likely be in jeopardy, so in the end it's self-defeating. I'm just now catching up on the MEA no patches announcement. While that announcement wasn't even close to being unexpected, I'm pretty skeptical about all this "no story DLC ever planned", unless they were planning to go straight to an MEA2. There are just too many loose ends. Saving the quarians in comics, novels and Apex MP seems like a hasty Plan B to me. But who knows? I'm sure we're only seeing a few molecules at the tip of a very large iceberg of palace politics and infighting within EA and Bioware over ME and everything else.
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Post by Iakus on Aug 20, 2017 21:22:08 GMT
There's a significant amount of salt out there following the abandonment of MEA DLC. Do you think this will affect the build up to Anthem, is that launch sufficiently far away for water to have flowed under the bridge? Or will every Anthem comments thread and YouTube be filled with 'my face hurts'...? Frankly, I don't think Anthem is actually aimed at typical Bioware players at all.
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Post by Sartoz on Aug 21, 2017 0:11:31 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Personally, I see it as a self inflicted wound.
The lukewarm receptions of the game and the devastating reviews about the wonky cinematics killed the expected sale numbers that EA had in mind. With the GM fired (.. ahem.. resigned), I was flabbergasted that anyone still believed that a DLC was coming. Some university social studies department must have made a study about gamers putting their heads in the sand.
Oh, I'm sure by the time Anthem is launched the pain is gone. I'm also sure that the wide eyed lambs will talk about Bio learning a lesson about communicating with their fans when in fact it is these same poor lambs that ought to learn EA's financial outlook is Priority One
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 9:44:34 GMT
I personally won't condemn Anthem for what happened with MEA. Those games are 2 differents products, made by different teams. The only thing I regret : your clearly can see that Anthem was their top priority, having the money, the golden team etc... and that MEA was treated as a by-product. This is what hurt me. I wished they had both equal chances.
I do understand why many players are angry (I read terrible comments on youtube) but people should not mix things. Also, the game is not for today so the frustration will certainly lower with time...
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 21, 2017 10:30:49 GMT
Wake, wake ...?
Ah, yes - I think I know what this word means. It's usually used in conjunction with "of destruction" or "of devastation". Kinda hard to market there unless you offer catastrophe relief gear and goods.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 21, 2017 15:05:22 GMT
What I will say is that the point regarding Bioware entering that particular niche late - IS a valid one.
The Destiny demographic has more than enough options currently, and unless Anthem has something more interesting to offer or if players dislike the other options for whatever reason, it probably won't reach EA's goals, which are undoubtedly rather ambitious. Well, do they have that many options? I can't really think of any games outside of Destiny and the Division that address this particular online looter-shooter niche. While both games have been put for awhile, the genre itself is still rather sparsely populated. And Anthem seems to be offering what Destiny promised but never delievered: a vast explorable world. If they deliver that and engineer an engaging story, another major point of criticism for those other two games, I'd say Anthem has a decent shot.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 21, 2017 19:43:34 GMT
What I will say is that the point regarding Bioware entering that particular niche late - IS a valid one.
The Destiny demographic has more than enough options currently, and unless Anthem has something more interesting to offer or if players dislike the other options for whatever reason, it probably won't reach EA's goals, which are undoubtedly rather ambitious. Well, do they have that many options? I can't really think of any games outside of Destiny and the Division that address this particular online looter-shooter niche. While both games have been put for awhile, the genre itself is still rather sparsely populated. And Anthem seems to be offering what Destiny promised but never delievered: a vast explorable world. If they deliver that and engineer an engaging story, another major point of criticism for those other two games, I'd say Anthem has a decent shot. The genre might seem sparsely populated to you, but it has to contend with other MP titles and that always comes down to player retention and active player base. This market is pretty rough and games flopping is quite common. Just look at Titanfall 2, Lawbreakers and Battleborn e.g.
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Post by Heimdall on Aug 21, 2017 20:43:14 GMT
The genre might seem sparsely populated to you, but it has to contend with other MP titles and that always comes down to player retention and active player base. This market is pretty rough and games flopping is quite common. Just look at Titanfall 2, Lawbreakers and Battleborn e.g. You aren't wrong and that is a challenge Anthem will face. I do think they have better odds than those games you mentioned though. Those three games, Titanfall 2 in particular, are competing with other multiplayer FPS: quite possibly the most oversaturated genre in video games. Has Lawbreakers flopped? I hadn't checked. If so, it's worth noting that it's having the same problem Battleborn had of competing with the insanely popular Overwatch (Even if the comparisons with Overwatch were rather strained in the case of Battleborn). But this open world-ish looter shooter genre is still limited to two games as far as I know. And many players have a love-hate relationship with those games at best from what I can tell, especially the Division, owing to failed design aspects and unfulfilled promises. That's why I've actually seen quite a lot of enthusiasm for Anthem coming out of those fanbases. I'm certain the goal of the E3 demo was to attract the attention of precisely that fanbase, and it seems to have been quite successful. You are right, of course, that they will be competing for the time and interest of the players with other multiplayer games, but so far they seem to have done a good job of attracting the attention of fans of this particular genre. We won't know how successful they are in retaining that interest until after release.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 21, 2017 22:51:43 GMT
To be honest I don't imagine as it will change much for a combination of things already mentioned here: It's a game that already is trying to appeal to a different crowd than those who solely like SP action RPGs, as well as the fact that it's going to be over a year before it actually comes out and by then the bitterness of ME:A will have died down in a lot of people.
So long as Anthem is a good game, I imagine it will do well. It's biggest treat outside of that as far as I can see is that Destiny 2 is a competitor that's coming out very soon this year. If it does well, it very well may lock down the market and people wont want to give up all the character progression and friends that they've made on that game. It's pretty much the same thing World of Warcraft did to MMOs 13 years ago.
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Post by Qolx on Aug 22, 2017 0:05:22 GMT
I expect some negative reception due to BW's MEA fiasco. The biggest marketing hit will come from Bungie if they take a page out of the Blizzard playbook. I bet Bungie will offer a great promotion the week Anthem releases. It will also take a hit from what Cyonan said above about player investment.
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Post by Fogg on Aug 22, 2017 0:16:14 GMT
This is the kind of game that caters to a different audience. BW's rpgs are for story gamers, but Anthem is like crack. For addicts. Escapism to the extreme. Numb life by having chores and targets in an alternate universe. These people are always looking for their next fix. EA will drain their wallets.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 22, 2017 16:01:41 GMT
The genre might seem sparsely populated to you, but it has to contend with other MP titles and that always comes down to player retention and active player base. This market is pretty rough and games flopping is quite common. Just look at Titanfall 2, Lawbreakers and Battleborn e.g. You aren't wrong and that is a challenge Anthem will face. I do think they have better odds than those games you mentioned though. Those three games, Titanfall 2 in particular, are competing with other multiplayer FPS: quite possibly the most oversaturated genre in video games. Has Lawbreakers flopped? I hadn't checked. If so, it's worth noting that it's having the same problem Battleborn had of competing with the insanely popular Overwatch (Even if the comparisons with Overwatch were rather strained in the case of Battleborn). But this open world-ish looter shooter genre is still limited to two games as far as I know. Borderlands 2 is a third. But your point is well taken, as non-PvP (AFAWK) co-op MP in an open world is a relatively sparse field, compared to say FPS and Soulsborne.
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