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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 4, 2017 20:51:35 GMT
That was NOT the case in ME3MP, were you were backed up on Silver and could not advance to Gold with what you could reasonably unlock without money. In other words, for me ME3MP is an example of a progression curve that is slower, holds you back earlier and therefore suggest that you gotta shell out cash earlier than MEA:MP. As I stated above already, this is NOT true! ALL kits in ME3MP are Gold viable. You don't need good weapons for the human vanguard or human adept which are default vanilla kits. None of the power classes are dependent on guns. Hell, you don't even need to be level 20. I've had been outclassed by level 1 character players. I'm currently working on a new manifest on PC. After 54 hours I have maybe half of of characters and 2/3 of gold weapons (not maxed of course). May not be ideal but I get something new to try out constantly. I take the Avenger X to Gold matches no problem on the vanguard. Nothing is holding anybody back from playing Gold but their own skill. I don't intend to sound mean. I'm an average player myself with terrible aim. I just want to say that your assessment is completely off here. And that's the thing isn't it? The XP grind. Can't have character run it on their own. Just a little tweak to make the gun loot more juicy. The extra ranks to unlock for character? You better rely on your gun, no? It felt like a lab rat maze where they just try out what they can do to make the loot crates appear more juicy. Yes there were nice ideas to mitigate it with mission funds, but that went après nous la déluge when we got the bloatocalypse.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 21:31:37 GMT
I like vanguards, but sync kills in ME3MP are why I won't take them to gold. I played Smasher and Turian Sentinel normally on Gold, and compared to MEA, Gold in ME3MP is hell on earth. I played ME3MP for 150 hours vs 73 in MEA:MP, and I have never felt I can pug Gold in me3. MEA? No problems. I have never unlocked a bunch of kits I wanted in ME3Mp, and gave up on the guns. It felt impossible.
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 4, 2017 21:55:40 GMT
Nothing EA has done to Bioware can even begin to compare to what they did to Origin in the '90s. Or what Westwood did back to EA in 2000
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Post by shinobiwan on Oct 4, 2017 22:21:30 GMT
1) it's not. The bigger problem to me is the feeling of being nickeled and dimed. 2) I was very pro-BW until after MEA. I defended it staunchly early on and didn't reverse my opinion until the full experience started sinking in. Before that, coming off ME3, I was in a much better financial situation (graduated) and was happy to dump money onto my favorite dev. So the 'don't feed the sharks' advice really didn't apply. Hindsight is 20/20 but doesn't help you in the moment. Obviously from my earliest posts I am now very wary and will be more risk averse in my game choices, which pretty much means EA is going to lose thousands on me alone unless it abandons that model. 3) if you think $1k is important in the grand scheme of things you're crazy. I seriously doubt they derived a material amount of money from people who spent over $400 on microtransactions in MEA. The bigger issue is that they're alienating even the most loyal of their fan base leading to the launch of their biggest project since SWTOR. Just to comment to your #3, this isn't any different then the loot boxes in Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age: Inquisition so if players were going to be alienated by these things being there I think there would have been a much bigger fallout during Mass Effect 3, but since it caught on as strongly as it did I doubt. There are always going to be players that feel alienated by one designed decision or another, but I doubt this one would have that much of an impact for a lot of people. MEA turned it all the way up with lootpocalypse v1.09. None of the previous games had such a big "fuck you buy packs" moment. If you followed the MP forum, it was a clear turning point where people just got fed up and left (including others who dropped more than $1k on packs). It's also relevant that those were much better games generally.
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Post by Sanunes on Oct 5, 2017 1:40:39 GMT
Just to comment to your #3, this isn't any different then the loot boxes in Mass Effect 3 or Dragon Age: Inquisition so if players were going to be alienated by these things being there I think there would have been a much bigger fallout during Mass Effect 3, but since it caught on as strongly as it did I doubt. There are always going to be players that feel alienated by one designed decision or another, but I doubt this one would have that much of an impact for a lot of people. MEA turned it all the way up with lootpocalypse v1.09. None of the previous games had such a big "fuck you buy packs" moment. If you followed the MP forum, it was a clear turning point where people just got fed up and left (including others who dropped more than $1k on packs). It's also relevant that those were much better games generally. I always took it as BioWare just dumping everything into the live game for they weren't sure if there was going to be another patch or not.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 5, 2017 6:35:24 GMT
I like vanguards, but sync kills in ME3MP are why I won't take them to gold. I played Smasher and Turian Sentinel normally on Gold, and compared to MEA, Gold in ME3MP is hell on earth. I played ME3MP for 150 hours vs 73 in MEA:MP, and I have never felt I can pug Gold in me3. MEA? No problems. I have never unlocked a bunch of kits I wanted in ME3Mp, and gave up on the guns. It felt impossible. The ultra rares in ME3MP are ridiculous time sinks indeed. I think it takes about a thousand hours to max them. That's insane. On the other hand you don't need to max them. But I agree that the grind required to do so is overkill and I hope Anthem improves on that. After they introduced reserve packs it became much easier to unlock rare kits. So in that respect ME3 is fine, I'd say. As for pugging gold. It's how I spent the majority of my 350h because my regular group of BSNers quit a few months after release. It's really not difficult with a decent team. Two good players can carry two weak ones. (I used to be one of the weak players for quite some time.) Human vanguard with shockwave does fine on Gold. Just need to change the approach a bit. It's now my second favorite kit on Gold. I never played MEA MP but if it's that much easier it sounds really unappealing to me. The main reason I skipped MEA MP though was the awful sound design and weak powers and overall unbalanced situation that I kept hearing about. No idea if that has improved. Doesn't matter to me now anyway. I'm still/once more enjoying the hell out of ME3MP. If Anthem can recapture the sheer ridiculous fun of ME3 combat in an open world environment, I'm looking forward to it. If it is anything like Destiny or The Division it will be the first Bioware game I skip.
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Post by PillarBiter on Oct 5, 2017 8:03:42 GMT
I wouldn't mind the grind as much, if every base version (Tier I) of every character/gun was available without needing to unlock it. And after a bronze game, you get a bronze lootbox, gold game, gold lootbox etc., while only the guns/miods/characters you were using last run had a chance to drop.
And you can still do microtransactions, just make the MT-lootcrates random.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 5, 2017 9:38:06 GMT
I like vanguards, but sync kills in ME3MP are why I won't take them to gold. I played Smasher and Turian Sentinel normally on Gold, and compared to MEA, Gold in ME3MP is hell on earth. I played ME3MP for 150 hours vs 73 in MEA:MP, and I have never felt I can pug Gold in me3. MEA? No problems. I have never unlocked a bunch of kits I wanted in ME3Mp, and gave up on the guns. It felt impossible. My impression is mostly the opposite.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 13:27:27 GMT
I like vanguards, but sync kills in ME3MP are why I won't take them to gold. I played Smasher and Turian Sentinel normally on Gold, and compared to MEA, Gold in ME3MP is hell on earth. I played ME3MP for 150 hours vs 73 in MEA:MP, and I have never felt I can pug Gold in me3. MEA? No problems. I have never unlocked a bunch of kits I wanted in ME3Mp, and gave up on the guns. It felt impossible. The ultra rares in ME3MP are ridiculous time sinks indeed. I think it takes about a thousand hours to max them. That's insane. On the other hand you don't need to max them. But I agree that the grind required to do so is overkill and I hope Anthem improves on that. After they introduced reserve packs it became much easier to unlock rare kits. So in that respect ME3 is fine, I'd say. As for pugging gold. It's how I spent the majority of my 350h because my regular group of BSNers quit a few months after release. It's really not difficult with a decent team. Two good players can carry two weak ones. (I used to be one of the weak players for quite some time.) Human vanguard with shockwave does fine on Gold. Just need to change the approach a bit. It's now my second favorite kit on Gold. I never played MEA MP but if it's that much easier it sounds really unappealing to me. The main reason I skipped MEA MP though was the awful sound design and weak powers and overall unbalanced situation that I kept hearing about. No idea if that has improved. Doesn't matter to me now anyway. I'm still/once more enjoying the hell out of ME3MP. If Anthem can recapture the sheer ridiculous fun of ME3 combat in an open world environment, I'm looking forward to it. If it is anything like Destiny or The Division it will be the first Bioware game I skip. Well, you've skipped MEA:MP, and I did both, so at least I have compared the two. The powers by no means felt unbalanced to me, actually were a lot of fun particularly on Sentinels, Engineers and Vanguards. I am terrible on shooting classes like Soldiers/Infiltrators so I don't play them, & I was never big on Adepts for no particular reasons (save for the Smasher). I did play the Human Adept in MEA:MP, and it was Okay too, though not my favorite. My feeling is that if you are pugging Gold in ME3MP with Avenger X, you'd have been pugging platinum in MEA, and then the unlocks and Mission Funds would be no problem whatsoever. But obviously, you enjoy ME3MP, so that's a moot point. I gave up on it because I specifically felt I will not be able to progress further, but the game itself was fine. And, yes, I absolutely hope that Anthem somehow miraculously avoids the pitfall of "you shall go no further and nobody will play with you in that gear, you are done" I am certainly not going to pay extra in any game to keep up with no lifers. Overall, I have a feeling I am not going be paying anything for it, to be honest, and just... not buy it to start with.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 5, 2017 17:16:54 GMT
The ultra rares in ME3MP are ridiculous time sinks indeed. I think it takes about a thousand hours to max them. That's insane. On the other hand you don't need to max them. But I agree that the grind required to do so is overkill and I hope Anthem improves on that. After they introduced reserve packs it became much easier to unlock rare kits. So in that respect ME3 is fine, I'd say. As for pugging gold. It's how I spent the majority of my 350h because my regular group of BSNers quit a few months after release. It's really not difficult with a decent team. Two good players can carry two weak ones. (I used to be one of the weak players for quite some time.) Human vanguard with shockwave does fine on Gold. Just need to change the approach a bit. It's now my second favorite kit on Gold. I never played MEA MP but if it's that much easier it sounds really unappealing to me. The main reason I skipped MEA MP though was the awful sound design and weak powers and overall unbalanced situation that I kept hearing about. No idea if that has improved. Doesn't matter to me now anyway. I'm still/once more enjoying the hell out of ME3MP. If Anthem can recapture the sheer ridiculous fun of ME3 combat in an open world environment, I'm looking forward to it. If it is anything like Destiny or The Division it will be the first Bioware game I skip. Well, you've skipped MEA:MP, and I did both, so at least I have compared the two. The powers by no means felt unbalanced to me, actually were a lot of fun particularly on Sentinels, Engineers and Vanguards. I am terrible on shooting classes like Soldiers/Infiltrators so I don't play them, & I was never big on Adepts for no particular reasons (save for the Smasher). I did play the Human Adept in MEA:MP, and it was Okay too, though not my favorite. My feeling is that if you are pugging Gold in ME3MP with Avenger X, you'd have been pugging platinum in MEA, and then the unlocks and Mission Funds would be no problem whatsoever. But obviously, you enjoy ME3MP, so that's a moot point. I gave up on it because I specifically felt I will not be able to progress further, but the game itself was fine. And, yes, I absolutely hope that Anthem somehow miraculously avoids the pitfall of "you shall go no further and nobody will play with you in that gear, you are done" I am certainly not going to pay extra in any game to keep up with no lifers. Overall, I have a feeling I am not going be paying anything for it, to be honest, and just... not buy it to start with. Haha, I never play infiltrators or soldier either. I honestly can't shoot straight! Which is why I love biotics and tech explosions. It's space mages. My worst enemy in the MP has always been guardians. I cannot shoot them through the slot even if I stand right in front of them, lol. Tbh I suck at playing most of the kits but I don't care. I have my fun anyway. So this is also something where Anthem needs to convince me. I don't like regular shooters. If I am forced to use an actual gun exclusively and headshot for damage, I won't buy. And I'm with you concerning microtransactions. I will never pay for better gear. If I need to either grind all day or buy gear the game is a rip-off. I work full time, I have no time for games that feel like work. Juck. Where one's tolerance threshold lies is another question.
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 6, 2017 8:05:08 GMT
Well, you've skipped MEA:MP, and I did both, so at least I have compared the two. The powers by no means felt unbalanced to me, actually were a lot of fun particularly on Sentinels, Engineers and Vanguards. I am terrible on shooting classes like Soldiers/Infiltrators so I don't play them, & I was never big on Adepts for no particular reasons (save for the Smasher). I did play the Human Adept in MEA:MP, and it was Okay too, though not my favorite. My feeling is that if you are pugging Gold in ME3MP with Avenger X, you'd have been pugging platinum in MEA, and then the unlocks and Mission Funds would be no problem whatsoever. But obviously, you enjoy ME3MP, so that's a moot point. I gave up on it because I specifically felt I will not be able to progress further, but the game itself was fine. And, yes, I absolutely hope that Anthem somehow miraculously avoids the pitfall of "you shall go no further and nobody will play with you in that gear, you are done" I am certainly not going to pay extra in any game to keep up with no lifers. Overall, I have a feeling I am not going be paying anything for it, to be honest, and just... not buy it to start with. Haha, I never play infiltrators or soldier either. I honestly can't shoot straight! Which is why I love biotics and tech explosions. It's space mages. My worst enemy in the MP has always been guardians. I cannot shoot them through the slot even if I stand right in front of them, lol. Tbh I suck at playing most of the kits but I don't care. I have my fun anyway. So this is also something where Anthem needs to convince me. I don't like regular shooters. If I am forced to use an actual gun exclusively and headshot for damage, I won't buy. And I'm with you concerning microtransactions. I will never pay for better gear. If I need to either grind all day or buy gear the game is a rip-off. I work full time, I have no time for games that feel like work. Juck. Where one's tolerance threshold lies is another question. Use a piercing mod or ammo for the guardians. You can shoot through the shield then.
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Post by PillarBiter on Oct 6, 2017 8:08:36 GMT
Well, you've skipped MEA:MP, and I did both, so at least I have compared the two. The powers by no means felt unbalanced to me, actually were a lot of fun particularly on Sentinels, Engineers and Vanguards. I am terrible on shooting classes like Soldiers/Infiltrators so I don't play them, & I was never big on Adepts for no particular reasons (save for the Smasher). I did play the Human Adept in MEA:MP, and it was Okay too, though not my favorite. My feeling is that if you are pugging Gold in ME3MP with Avenger X, you'd have been pugging platinum in MEA, and then the unlocks and Mission Funds would be no problem whatsoever. But obviously, you enjoy ME3MP, so that's a moot point. I gave up on it because I specifically felt I will not be able to progress further, but the game itself was fine. And, yes, I absolutely hope that Anthem somehow miraculously avoids the pitfall of "you shall go no further and nobody will play with you in that gear, you are done" I am certainly not going to pay extra in any game to keep up with no lifers. Overall, I have a feeling I am not going be paying anything for it, to be honest, and just... not buy it to start with. Haha, I never play infiltrators or soldier either. I honestly can't shoot straight! Which is why I love biotics and tech explosions. It's space mages. My worst enemy in the MP has always been guardians. I cannot shoot them through the slot even if I stand right in front of them, lol. Tbh I suck at playing most of the kits but I don't care. I have my fun anyway. So this is also something where Anthem needs to convince me. I don't like regular shooters. If I am forced to use an actual gun exclusively and headshot for damage, I won't buy. And I'm with you concerning microtransactions. I will never pay for better gear. If I need to either grind all day or buy gear the game is a rip-off. I work full time, I have no time for games that feel like work. Juck. Where one's tolerance threshold lies is another question. Haha, I get that completely. I myself am not the best shooter either (and on console, anyway). I would say, your everyday casual average. What I do excel in (or at least, I'd like to think so) is quick strategic decisions. Which is why I very much like to play my sentinel profile, which allows me to use crowd control powers that don't require pin-point aiming. I won't have the fastest kill time, for sure. But I'll be the last one alive.
I hope anthem caters to strategic play as well.
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Post by Label07 on Oct 16, 2017 3:47:12 GMT
It's your money and your choice OP. But don't you think you are jumping to a conclusion a little early? I was hyped for Shadow or War and was going to buy it, saw the loot box debacle and boycotted. I was hyped for SWBFront 2 and was going to buy it, then I saw the loot box debacle and boycotted.
I'm going to wait and see where Anthem goes first before I make a definitive statement like you have done. I would suggest you do the same.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Oct 23, 2017 3:37:43 GMT
Let's see, NWN came out in 2002 and it's 2017 ... I'M A REAL BIO FAN!!!! There is actually one guy on this forum that thinks NWN1 was the best of their games. I think every rule has exceptions, lol. That would be me. It’s because it was really the idea of a toolkit that allowed you to make your own modules and not just changes to the vanilla game. It was also using the AD&D franchise Forgotten Realms license. It had sad graphics but it allowed the next big step from the home grown Infinity engine to an engine where nerds like me can make stuff. So yeah... I’m that dude. I think Origins is a masterpiece even with its dated graphics because story telling was at the heart of these titles. When the focus is on that, the canvas they’re using becomes its canvas. And yeah... I discovered BioWare from Baldurs Gate on my Pentium 220 MMX computer. So I’m a fan and I know and remember the games well. I also love Black Isle games and consider Planescape Torment and Fallout 2 easily one of the best story-laden games for that time. And no, I will never ever say Mass Effect Andromeda was a great game, but it was very good like other titles in their portfolio. Actually, I will say this is where EA has shown they give a damn about continuous support of a title that didn’t reach lofty expectations. But anyway, I know from my own personal experience that BioWare 1.0 is gone. BioWare 2.0 are full of seasoned veterans using probably the hardest non-in-house (DICE made it, BioWare is adapting to it) and yeah... I’m not happy about Inquisition or Andromeda’s launch but it seems the developers are trying to give us more but EA ruins it all with their petty schemes. Petty and greedy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 10:44:41 GMT
Haha, I never play infiltrators or soldier either. I honestly can't shoot straight! Which is why I love biotics and tech explosions. It's space mages. My worst enemy in the MP has always been guardians. I cannot shoot them through the slot even if I stand right in front of them, lol. Tbh I suck at playing most of the kits but I don't care. I have my fun anyway. So this is also something where Anthem needs to convince me. I don't like regular shooters. If I am forced to use an actual gun exclusively and headshot for damage, I won't buy. And I'm with you concerning microtransactions. I will never pay for better gear. If I need to either grind all day or buy gear the game is a rip-off. I work full time, I have no time for games that feel like work. Juck. Where one's tolerance threshold lies is another question. Haha, I get that completely. I myself am not the best shooter either (and on console, anyway). I would say, your everyday casual average. What I do excel in (or at least, I'd like to think so) is quick strategic decisions. Which is why I very much like to play my sentinel profile, which allows me to use crowd control powers that don't require pin-point aiming. I won't have the fastest kill time, for sure. But I'll be the last one alive.
I hope anthem caters to strategic play as well.
Asari Sentinel in MEAMP are DAT aegis, OMG...
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 23, 2017 11:06:03 GMT
Haha, I get that completely. I myself am not the best shooter either (and on console, anyway). I would say, your everyday casual average. What I do excel in (or at least, I'd like to think so) is quick strategic decisions. Which is why I very much like to play my sentinel profile, which allows me to use crowd control powers that don't require pin-point aiming. I won't have the fastest kill time, for sure. But I'll be the last one alive.
I hope anthem caters to strategic play as well.
Asari Sentinel in MEAMP are DAT aegis, OMG... A fantastic ability. Always wanted some real riot police. And they are blue, too! Kinda the most innovative ability. I just overplayed it in SP and MP. I blame the shitty exp grind.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2017 11:40:24 GMT
Asari Sentinel in MEAMP are DAT aegis, OMG... A fantastic ability. Always wanted some real riot police. And they are blue, too! Kinda the most innovative ability. I just overplayed it in SP and MP. I blame the shitty exp grind. Well, for me it was a drawback that the kit was an asari, but well, i know folks like them....
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Post by Pounce de León on Oct 23, 2017 11:50:08 GMT
A fantastic ability. Always wanted some real riot police. And they are blue, too! Kinda the most innovative ability. I just overplayed it in SP and MP. I blame the shitty exp grind. Well, for me it was a drawback that the kit was an asari, but well, i know folks like them.... They are all the same now, but in ME3MP I liked their elegant dash. I even trained to dash prime siege pulses 1v1 - the damn stun drone ruined that achievement tho.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Oct 24, 2017 3:06:04 GMT
There is actually one guy on this forum that thinks NWN1 was the best of their games. I think every rule has exceptions, lol. That would be me. It’s because it was really the idea of a toolkit that allowed you to make your own modules and not just changes to the vanilla game. It was also using the AD&D franchise Forgotten Realms license. It had sad graphics but it allowed the next big step from the home grown Infinity engine to an engine where nerds like me can make stuff. So yeah... I’m that dude. C'mon, now, don't perpetuate the revisionist narrative about NWN1. At the time it came out, the graphics kicked ass. Reviews in 2002 said as much: "In general, Neverwinter Nights met with positive reviews, receiving "universal acclaim" according to Metacritic.[26] GameSpot referred to it as "one of those exceedingly rare games that has a lot to offer virtually everyone, even if they aren't already into RPGs", and praised it for its campaign, its Aurora toolset, and its graphics." (Amazing this link got archived!) www.webcitation.org/5jRiMEpZP?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamespot.com%2Fpc%2Frpg%2Fneverwinternights%2Freview.html
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 19:30:31 GMT
That would be me. It’s because it was really the idea of a toolkit that allowed you to make your own modules and not just changes to the vanilla game. It was also using the AD&D franchise Forgotten Realms license. It had sad graphics but it allowed the next big step from the home grown Infinity engine to an engine where nerds like me can make stuff. So yeah... I’m that dude. C'mon, now, don't perpetuate the revisionist narrative about NWN1. At the time it came out, the graphics kicked ass. Reviews in 2002 said as much: "In general, Neverwinter Nights met with positive reviews, receiving "universal acclaim" according to Metacritic.[26] GameSpot referred to it as "one of those exceedingly rare games that has a lot to offer virtually everyone, even if they aren't already into RPGs", and praised it for its campaign, its Aurora toolset, and its graphics." (Amazing this link got archived!) www.webcitation.org/5jRiMEpZP?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamespot.com%2Fpc%2Frpg%2Fneverwinternights%2Freview.htmlI can only speak for myself. I bought NWN1 on day one, and after how pretty BG games were I could not stand the square worlds and how characters looked. I remember being completely disheartened by that and, yeah, I am afraid pretty unpleasant in my criticism (I was young). I was among those who asked to please, please abandon the folly of the 3D graphics and go back to pretty 2D games at the time. I think the first 3D games that had graphics I liked when I first played them were NWN2 and Jade Empire. Back then I always bought games the day they made it to the stores, heh. I will forever remember NWN1 as my biggest disappointment in games ever. I still can play Jade Empire, actually, and it looks okayish after a couple of hours. And, yes, I also dislike DA3 graphics despite people liking it so much. I did see DA3 in 2016 though, not 2014.
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