linksocarina
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 28, 2017 17:38:24 GMT
So heres a bit of trivia. when I first started writing on the old BSN forums the first post I ever did was a thread discussing Anders in Dragon Age 2, and how the perception of his actions can be seen as either a freedom fighter or terrorist, depending on our view of the world and of Thedas. I actually wrote something about that now, for my editorial series on Anders, so I figured id share some thoughts and ask you guys what you think. The full article is here, but I want to quote a bit from the end: I feel that it really does boil down to how we see things, which makes it, considering the in-game events, a difficult choice depending on how we role-play our character, and how it tests our own individual beliefs. What do you think though?
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Post by Catilina on Aug 28, 2017 18:28:58 GMT
Freedom fighter, no doubt. I never, not for a moment thought that anything could justify the prison-Circles existence or make it acceptable in any way. (Circle Mage Origin shows, how unacceptable is the system.) The criminals must be imprisoned, the innocents must be free, that's so simple. Everything else is a crime. On this basis, to fight against it welcomed, to break a wrong law is justice. The only thing that's morally questionable is his tool. Not that it could be a peaceful solution, this war was needed long ago, because the Chantry didn't want to change their Circle-system (not reform, rather elimination, and rebuild as education and research centers). This is not extremism, the freedom's a fundamental human right.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 28, 2017 22:00:33 GMT
I fully supported mages getting more freedom and rights, but I still find Anders as nothing more than a warmongering terrorist showing no remorse for his actions so I execute him for the abomination and monster he is(I'd prefer him being locked up in prison but that isn't an option). He killed hundreds of innocent people and brought about events that killed countless more of his own volition, so he has done far too much to just be freed.The biggest thing in DA2 that irked me is how it forced Hawke to be an idiot and not report Anders since it was obvious to me he was making an explosive.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 28, 2017 22:07:37 GMT
I fully supported mages getting more freedom and rights, but I still find Anders as nothing more than a warmongering terrorist showing no remorse for his actions so I execute him for the abomination and monster he is(I'd prefer him being locked up in prison but that isn't an option). The biggest thing in DA2 that irked me is how it forced Hawke to be an idiot and not report Anders since it was obvious to me he was making an explosive. He felt remorse for his victims, not for his action. His action was effective but undoubtedly cruel and bloody. But sadly, the peaceful solution didn't exist. "More freedom" is not freedom.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 28, 2017 22:14:16 GMT
I fully supported mages getting more freedom and rights, but I still find Anders as nothing more than a warmongering terrorist showing no remorse for his actions so I execute him for the abomination and monster he is(I'd prefer him being locked up in prison but that isn't an option). The biggest thing in DA2 that irked me is how it forced Hawke to be an idiot and not report Anders since it was obvious to me he was making an explosive. He felt remorse for his victims, not for his action. His action was effective but undoubtedly cruel and bloody. But sadly, the peaceful solution didn't exist. "More freedom" is not freedom. He made sure the peaceful solution didn't exist by taking out the one person who could see it happen. As I said, he wanted a war and he didn't care who or how many died in the process. By the literal definition of the term, he is the embodiment of a terrorist.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 28, 2017 22:21:59 GMT
He felt remorse for his victims, not for his action. His action was effective but undoubtedly cruel and bloody. But sadly, the peaceful solution didn't exist. "More freedom" is not freedom He made sure the peaceful solution didn't exist by taking out the one person who could see it happen. As I said, he wanted a war and he didn't care who or how many died in the process. By the literal definition of the term, he is the embodiment of a terrorist. Do you think, the Chantry would able to let mages be free? No? So: there was no peaceful solution. Elthina never wanted peace. If she would, she would replace Meredith. She didn't do such a thing, even he didn't show any interest in what happens in the Circle and what happens with Kirkwall's people. Elthina was an embodied sloth demon.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 28, 2017 22:35:42 GMT
He made sure the peaceful solution didn't exist by taking out the one person who could see it happen. As I said, he wanted a war and he didn't care who or how many died in the process. By the literal definition of the term, he is the embodiment of a terrorist. Do you think, the Chantry would able to let mages be free? No? So: there was no peaceful solution. Elthina never wanted peace. If she would, she would replace Meredith. She didn't do such a thing, even he didn't show any interest in what happens in the Circle and what happens with Kirkwall's people. Elthina was an embodied sloth demon. Yes I do. It was only because of extremists on both sides that were delaying or preventing it from moving down that road. People like Anders, perpetuating his self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 28, 2017 22:46:07 GMT
Do you think, the Chantry would able to let mages be free? No? So: there was no peaceful solution. Elthina never wanted peace. If she would, she would replace Meredith. She didn't do such a thing, even he didn't show any interest in what happens in the Circle and what happens with Kirkwall's people. Elthina was an embodied sloth demon. Yes I do. It was only because of extremists on both sides that were delaying or preventing it from moving down that road. People like Anders, perpetuating his self-fulfilling prophecy. Because people aren't perfect. Do you think, people need to earn their freedom? With "good" behavior? Or just sit on their ass and waiting for the goodwill of the others? No. And what would change things, if nobody starts it? I already said: to fight for the freedom isn't extremism.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 28, 2017 22:55:09 GMT
Yes I do. It was only because of extremists on both sides that were delaying or preventing it from moving down that road. People like Anders, perpetuating his self-fulfilling prophecy. Because people aren't perfect. Do you think, people need to earn their freedom? With "good" behavior? Or just sit on their ass and waiting for the goodwill of the others? No. And what would change things? I already said: to fight for the freedom isn't extremism. No, not in this instance(in instances like people being in jail then yes absolutely they need to earn their freedom). However I think when people act like all the monsters in stories about them that ended up with them no longer having their freedom, they will not get it back. To use Anders as an example, stories are told where if freed mages will kill innocent people. So what does Anders do? He kills hundreds of innocent people. For any positive change to occur and especially last, you need the desire for that change to outweigh the resentment. All his actions did was further cement any resentment towards mages getting freedom and rights. Even most of the mages think this. The fight for freedom may not be, but the terrorist tactics Anders uses are extremism.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 28, 2017 23:16:33 GMT
Because people aren't perfect. Do you think, people need to earn their freedom? With "good" behavior? Or just sit on their ass and waiting for the goodwill of the others? No. And what would change things? I already said: to fight for the freedom isn't extremism. No, not in this instance(in instances like people being in jail then yes absolutely they need to earn their freedom). However I think when people act like all the monsters in stories about them that ended up with them no longer having their freedom, they will not get it back. To use Anders as an example, stories are told where if freed mages will kill innocent people. So what does Anders do? He kills hundreds of innocent people. For any positive change to occur and especially last, you need the desire for that change to outweigh the resentment. All his actions did was further cement any resentment towards mages getting freedom and rights. Even most of the mages think this. The fight for freedom may not be, but the terrorist tactics Anders uses are extremism. He didn't kill hundreds (Sebastian spoke about a dozen), Kirkwall war killed hundreds. He only ignited a spark. He knew what will cause this spark? Yes. But he doesn't responsible for what Meredith did. If no one wanted war, there would have been no war from this spark. But the College of Magi also voted for the war. And Anders/Justice takes responsibility for it. He knew, what he did. He didn't escape from the judgment. Kill him then. I did it, but I felt uncomfortable.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 28, 2017 23:48:00 GMT
I fully supported mages getting more freedom and rights, but I still find Anders as nothing more than a warmongering terrorist showing no remorse for his actions so I execute him for the abomination and monster he is(I'd prefer him being locked up in prison but that isn't an option). He killed hundreds of innocent people and brought about events that killed countless more of his own volition, so he has done far too much to just be freed.The biggest thing in DA2 that irked me is how it forced Hawke to be an idiot and not report Anders since it was obvious to me he was making an explosive. Actually, Hawke did report it. Or you have the option to several times. What is interesting is it seems that the reports fell on deaf ears considering the turmoil going on in the city. Just an interesting observation that they put that all in there anyway...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2017 0:06:29 GMT
I fully supported mages getting more freedom and rights, but I still find Anders as nothing more than a warmongering terrorist showing no remorse for his actions so I execute him for the abomination and monster he is(I'd prefer him being locked up in prison but that isn't an option). He killed hundreds of innocent people and brought about events that killed countless more of his own volition, so he has done far too much to just be freed.The biggest thing in DA2 that irked me is how it forced Hawke to be an idiot and not report Anders since it was obvious to me he was making an explosive. Actually, Hawke did report it. Or you have the option to several times. What is interesting is it seems that the reports fell on deaf ears considering the turmoil going on in the city. Just an interesting observation that they put that all in there anyway... I forgot about that. Thank you for reminding me. In that case the biggest thing that irked me is how everyone puts on the Idiot Hat just so Anders can slaughter innocents.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2017 0:08:45 GMT
Anders is a freedom fighter. He had no choice but do blow the Chantry, it was the only action left to get the other circles to rise up and take their liberty. Mages like Wynne and Gregor, Inez tried to work within the system but they were so few and did little in the end. Even when mages were conscripted into the Wardens, they proved they could be a force for good and still the mages were kept prisoner. The Chantry only saw the mages as potential demons or dangerous to be controlled and held captive for life. There was so much abuse and corruption within the organization, nothing would change it except drastic measure. It is horrifying what Anders did but I see no other way than all out war for their freedom. Absolute nonsense. He had a choice. It wasn't like someone was holding a gun to his head or threatening to kill his family or something. Also the lore goes against that, with the Chantry actually having a Divine lean towards their favor until extremists like Anders made war inevitable.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2017 0:13:11 GMT
No, not in this instance(in instances like people being in jail then yes absolutely they need to earn their freedom). However I think when people act like all the monsters in stories about them that ended up with them no longer having their freedom, they will not get it back. To use Anders as an example, stories are told where if freed mages will kill innocent people. So what does Anders do? He kills hundreds of innocent people. For any positive change to occur and especially last, you need the desire for that change to outweigh the resentment. All his actions did was further cement any resentment towards mages getting freedom and rights. Even most of the mages think this. The fight for freedom may not be, but the terrorist tactics Anders uses are extremism. He didn't kill hundreds (Sebastian spoke about a dozen), Kirkwall war killed hundreds. He only lit a spark. He knew what will cause this spark? Yes. But he doesn't responsible for what Meredith did. If no one wanted war, there would have been no war from this spark. But the College of Magi also voted for the war. And Anders/Justice takes responsibility for it. He knew, what he did. He didn't escape from the judgment. Kill him then. I did it, but I felt uncomfortable. First, no way did that explosion kill just a dozen people. Ignoring all the people in the building, the debris ran all over Kirkwall and set the whole city ablaze. Second, every death that occurred in Kirkwall was a result of his actions so that blood is on his hands. And yes he is responsible for what Meredith did because what she did was the reason why he did what he did. He knew Meredith wanted to annul the Circle and that Elthina was the only one in the way, so he took Elthina and the Chantry out thus letting Meredith off the leash.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 29, 2017 0:19:54 GMT
Anders is a freedom fighter. He had no choice but do blow the Chantry, it was the only action left to get the other circles to rise up and take their liberty. Mages like Wynne and Gregor, Inez tried to work within the system but they were so few and did little in the end. Even when mages were conscripted into the Wardens, they proved they could be a force for good and still the mages were kept prisoner. The Chantry only saw the mages as potential demons or dangerous to be controlled and held captive for life. There was so much abuse and corruption within the organization, nothing would change it except drastic measure. It is horrifying what Anders did but I see no other way than all out war for their freedom. Absolute nonsense. He had a choice. It wasn't like someone was holding a gun to his head or threatening to kill his family or something. And if he does nothing, then nothing happens. The violence behind the closed doors continuing seamlessly. But that's normal because no one hears the screams. And the Tranquils seems so satisfied... Or Meredith would slaughter every Mage, including the kids. She already sent the request to Val Royeaux for the Right of the Annulment. Do you think, if the Divine signed it, Elthina would be able to do anything against it? No. This embodied sloth demon would just spread her hand, and say sadly: "We don't need to rush, child, the Maker's time not the men's time"... the eternity will solve the problems. There was the time for the rebellion.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 29, 2017 0:23:33 GMT
He didn't kill hundreds (Sebastian spoke about a dozen), Kirkwall war killed hundreds. He only lit a spark. He knew what will cause this spark? Yes. But he doesn't responsible for what Meredith did. If no one wanted war, there would have been no war from this spark. But the College of Magi also voted for the war. And Anders/Justice takes responsibility for it. He knew, what he did. He didn't escape from the judgment. Kill him then. I did it, but I felt uncomfortable. First, no way did that explosion kill just a dozen people. Ignoring all the people in the building, the debris ran all over Kirkwall and set the whole city ablaze. Second, every death that occurred in Kirkwall was a result of his actions so that blood is on his hands. And yes he is responsible for what Meredith did because what she did was the reason why he did what he did. He knew Meredith wanted to annul the Circle and that Elthina was the only one in the way, so he took Elthina and the Chantry out thus letting Meredith off the leash. "Absolute nonsense. (S)He had a choice. It wasn't like someone was holding a gun to his her head or threatening to kill his her family or something."
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2017 0:25:28 GMT
Absolute nonsense. He had a choice. It wasn't like someone was holding a gun to his head or threatening to kill his family or something. Also the lore goes against that, with the Chantry actually having a Divine lean towards their favor until extremists like Anders made war inevitable. But leaning towards their favor accomplished nothing. Kirkwall was abusive and no one did anything. Right of Annulment on Ferelden and to heck with the innocent mages, just slaughter them all. It was not a good system. Anders choice was to do nothing or start a war, with Justices help he started a war and the mages are so far free. Even the mages who followed Fiona at least they had the choice to follow her or not, they were not ordered to as dumb as I think they were to follow her. It was understandable that many followed the First Enchanter, being set free was terrifying and the safe choice was with Fiona. Much like Orana, being set out into the world not knowing how to cope, Hawke hires her as a servant, from there she can learn how to live as a free e Sometimes the peaceful solution of going along is not a solution. How long were the mages to wait before being treated like human beings, free to determine their own lives, to be out side. Somethings are worse than death or the possibility of death, somethings are worth fighting and dying for. Freedom when wrongly taken is one of them. It doesn't when lunatics like Anders make it a moot point, I agree. Then Anders should have done nothing. All he did was validate every single fear people had of mages. If it wasn't for the events of Inquisition, the mages would eternally have been in a worse situation that makes even the most abusive of the Circles look like a pleasure resort. As a side note, and no offense intended, but I don't know if it is fitting or ironic that you have this stance with Mikasa as your avatar. First, no way did that explosion kill just a dozen people. Ignoring all the people in the building, the debris ran all over Kirkwall and set the whole city ablaze. Second, every death that occurred in Kirkwall was a result of his actions so that blood is on his hands. And yes he is responsible for what Meredith did because what she did was the reason why he did what he did. He knew Meredith wanted to annul the Circle and that Elthina was the only one in the way, so he took Elthina and the Chantry out thus letting Meredith off the leash. "Absolute nonsense. He had a choice. It wasn't like someone was holding a gun to his head or threatening to kill his family or something."I don't see how you trying to mock me fits the highlighted section since my words don't fit that. It's not like I am excusing Meredith or anything.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 29, 2017 0:33:27 GMT
But leaning towards their favor accomplished nothing. Kirkwall was abusive and no one did anything. Right of Annulment on Ferelden and to heck with the innocent mages, just slaughter them all. It was not a good system. Anders choice was to do nothing or start a war, with Justices help he started a war and the mages are so far free. Even the mages who followed Fiona at least they had the choice to follow her or not, they were not ordered to as dumb as I think they were to follow her. It was understandable that many followed the First Enchanter, being set free was terrifying and the safe choice was with Fiona. Much like Orana, being set out into the world not knowing how to cope, Hawke hires her as a servant, from there she can learn how to live as a free e Sometimes the peaceful solution of going along is not a solution. How long were the mages to wait before being treated like human beings, free to determine their own lives, to be out side. Somethings are worse than death or the possibility of death, somethings are worth fighting and dying for. Freedom when wrongly taken is one of them. It doesn't when lunatics like Anders make it a moot point, I agree. Then Anders should have done nothing. All he did was validate every single fear people had of mages. If it wasn't for the events of Inquisition, the mages would eternally have been in a worse situation that makes even the most abusive of the Circles look like a pleasure resort. "Absolute nonsense. (S)He had a choice. It wasn't like someone was holding a gun to his her head or threatening to kill his her family or something." I don't see how you trying to mock me fits the highlighted section since my words don't fit that. It fits. The Mages must try to live freely. And the people must learn live with them. This is hard and even dangerous. Everything has a risk. And there's nothing worse than to live closed, without any privacy. Bethany finally learned that.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2017 0:37:33 GMT
It doesn't when lunatics like Anders make it a moot point, I agree. Then Anders should have done nothing. All he did was validate every single fear people had of mages. If it wasn't for the events of Inquisition, the mages would eternally have been in a worse situation that makes even the most abusive of the Circles look like a pleasure resort. I don't see how you trying to mock me fits the highlighted section since my words don't fit that. It fits. The Mages must try to live freely. And the people must learn live with them. This is hard and even dangerous. Everything has a risk. And there's nothing worse than to live closed, without any privacy. Bethany finally learned that. Not really. As I said it's not like Meredith is excused for her actions. The highlighted part talked about why Anders did what he did specifically. He even talks about it. Taking out the Chantry let Meredith enact the Rite of Annulment, the Kirkwall Circle is slaughtered for a crime they didn't commit thus causing all the other Circles to rise up in revolt. I can think of much worse fates than that. I never send Bethany to the Circle, but if she thinks that is the worst than she and everyone else who thinks that is naive. Many learn how naive that is in the events after that.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 29, 2017 0:51:24 GMT
It fits. The Mages must try to live freely. And the people must learn live with them. This is hard and even dangerous. Everything has a risk. And there's nothing worse than to live closed, without any privacy. Bethany finally learned that. Not really. As I said it's not like Meredith is excused for her actions. The highlighted part talked about why Anders did what he did specifically. He even talks about it. Taking out the Chantry let Meredith enact the Rite of Annulment, the Kirkwall Circle is slaughtered for a crime they didn't commit thus causing all the other Circles to rise up in revolt. I can think of much worse fates than that. I never send Bethany to the Circle, but if she thinks that is the worst than she and everyone else who thinks that is naive. Many learn how naive that is in the events after that. Not Bethany thinks, that nothing worse than to live closed, without privacy, Anders thinks. (Anders–Fenris banter) And Orsino's Love, who burned herself, and left these words: "This isn't life, Orsino!". Bethany learned, that her task is to fight for her fellows, and the people must learn with the free Mages. (I mixed the order) About Meredith: Yes, I know, Anders counted with Meredith's reaction, but that doesn't mean, that Meredith was forced to do it... Only Meredith responsible for her own crimes, just as Anders responsible for what he did.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2017 0:51:27 GMT
It doesn't when lunatics like Anders make it a moot point, I agree. Then Anders should have done nothing. All he did was validate every single fear people had of mages. If it wasn't for the events of Inquisition, the mages would eternally have been in a worse situation that makes even the most abusive of the Circles look like a pleasure resort. As a side note, and no offense intended, but I don't know if it is fitting or ironic that you have this stance with Mikasa as your avatar. I don't see how you trying to mock me fits the highlighted section since my words don't fit that. It's not like I am excusing Meredith or anything. Heh - no offense taken. Maybe both...heh. With that avatar would you expect anything less of me than to support Anders? I don't think they will have it worse given some time. It will be difficult for a while, sure. Some mages will find their way home or find a new home. Some will be able to get jobs, places to live. Some will be able to become healers and help, join the military etc. It will take time but it will happen and they will be accepted as soon as the people and the mages start living together and both will see there is not much to fear. Is that hopeful? Yes. I'd actually expect you to be first in line to kill him considering her opinion on certain characters. Unless he is your Eren of course which I guess fits since both strive for a better world but have no regard for the cost along the way including causing the deaths of hundreds of innocent people ironically making them no better and possibly worse than those they are fighting against. Oh it would have been worse. Even if somehow the mages won the people of Thedas would not have let it stood after all the death and destruction the war would have caused, massive witch hunts resulting in untold number of mages and sympathizers being killed or the mages essentially creating another Tevinter Imperium. And if they lost all that but also those who aren't killed would be sent to a new Circle system that has none of the pros that the old had but all of the cons cranked up to eleven. If it wasn't for the Breach upending everything, the world would have been strife with conflict that made the war we see seem pleasant and last for decades. Not to mention that really once things got that bad the Qun would have made their move and everyone would be under them, which means a much worse fate for mages than the Circle.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2017 0:55:07 GMT
Not really. As I said it's not like Meredith is excused for her actions. The highlighted part talked about why Anders did what he did specifically. He even talks about it. Taking out the Chantry let Meredith enact the Rite of Annulment, the Kirkwall Circle is slaughtered for a crime they didn't commit thus causing all the other Circles to rise up in revolt. I can think of much worse fates than that. I never send Bethany to the Circle, but if she thinks that is the worst than she and everyone else who thinks that is naive. Many learn how naive that is in the events after that. Not Bethany thinks, that nothing worse than to live closed, without privacy, Anders thinks. (Anders–Fenris banter) And Orsino's Love, who burned herself, and left these words: "This isn't life, Orsino!". Bethany learned, that her task is to fight for her fellows, and the people must learn with the free Mages. (I mixed the order) About Meredith: Yes, I know, Anders counted with Meredith's reaction, but that doesn't mean, that Meredith was forced to do it... Only Meredith responsible for her own crimes, just as Anders responsible for what he did. Ah, okay. I never said Meredith was forced to do it. I even said Meredith had been wanting to do it but Elthina stopped her. I agree Meredith is responsible for her crimes but so is Anders. He knowingly set up a chain of events that would release an insane woman against the Circle. It'd be like if you release a serial killer you know is going to kill again. Yes they are responsible for those deaths, but so are you for giving them the opportunity.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 29, 2017 1:03:17 GMT
Not Bethany thinks, that nothing worse than to live closed, without privacy, Anders thinks. (Anders–Fenris banter) And Orsino's Love, who burned herself, and left these words: "This isn't life, Orsino!". Bethany learned, that her task is to fight for her fellows, and the people must learn with the free Mages. (I mixed the order) About Meredith: Yes, I know, Anders counted with Meredith's reaction, but that doesn't mean, that Meredith was forced to do it... Only Meredith responsible for her own crimes, just as Anders responsible for what he did. Ah, okay. I never said Meredith was forced to do it. I even said Meredith had been wanting to do it but Elthina stopped her. I agree Meredith is responsible for her crimes but so is Anders. He knowingly set up a chain of events that would release an insane woman against the Circle. It'd be like if you release a serial killer you know is going to kill again. Yes they are responsible for those deaths, but so are you for giving them the opportunity. Anders knew, that Meredith' cruel, criminal, but he didn't know about the level of Meredith's madness. I wrote: Elthina wouldn't stop the Annulment. And you talk about Meredith as an unstoppable rabid dog... but that rabid dog were promoted by Elthina herself... If Anders (an outsider) knew, that Meredith's a dangerous killer machine, Elthina also knew about it.
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linksocarina
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Post by linksocarina on Aug 29, 2017 1:07:40 GMT
There is the issue of the Red Lyrium though...much like how Vengance was a catalyst for amplifying Anders and his feelings too.
External forces made manifest had to contain some sort of effect, no?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 29, 2017 1:13:17 GMT
Ah, okay. I never said Meredith was forced to do it. I even said Meredith had been wanting to do it but Elthina stopped her. I agree Meredith is responsible for her crimes but so is Anders. He knowingly set up a chain of events that would release an insane woman against the Circle. It'd be like if you release a serial killer you know is going to kill again. Yes they are responsible for those deaths, but so are you for giving them the opportunity. Anders knew, that Meredith' cruel, criminal, but he didn't know about the level of Meredith's madness. I wrote: Elthina wouldn't stop the Annulment. And you talk about Meredith as an unstoppable rabid dog... but that rabid dog were promoted by Elthina herself... If Anders (an outsider) knew, that Meredith's a dangerous killer machine, Elthina also knew about it. Elthina would stop the Annulment because she has been stopping the Annulment. One of the bad Templars(can't remember his name) talks about how Meredith has been submitting it but Elthina keeps refusing them. And with how much Anders knew of the going-ons inside the Gallows he knew that as well. Especially since again he talks about the Kirkwall Circle being killed is part of the plan since it will cause the other Circles to rise up. Meredith wasn't always like that. It was the Red Lyrium idol that changed her between Act 2 and Act 3. In Act 2 we see a different Meredith like how she is against tranquilizing all the mages(which she has the opposite stance on in Act 3) and even Anders talks about her in a good light albeit with a backhanded compliment.
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