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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 30, 2017 23:51:42 GMT
While I'm still not convinced Anthem is a "Destiny clone," they will inevitably share some similarities, such as having the capacity to play with friends online. Having just experienced the Destiny 2 beta on PC, I have to say I was incredibly underwhelmed. While the game looks pretty good, the gun play is solid, and optimization is top notch, everything else was either average or forgettable.
What little of the story that we are shown is incredibly generic and uninspiring. The voice acting is also incredibly wooden and lazy. Not much else was available, save for PvP and Strikes. It was a lackluster showing, especially when compared to Destiny 1's beta. We are obviously still a year out from Anthem's release, but Destiny 2 having an underwhelming splash at the marketplace could really bolster the appeal for Anthem.
Especially if Anthem is truly a BioWare RPG with the addition of cooperative online play, I think BioWare could potentially have a massive success on their hands. Not only would the game pull from the core BioWare fan base, but also outsiders who may not have previously played BioWare games. In many ways, I see Anthem determining BioWare's future in this industry. It's success or failure could impact Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and any other potential projects BioWare wants to do going forward.
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Post by Serza on Aug 30, 2017 23:58:52 GMT
I dunno, I'm still hoping for the fact they simply have too much and Ryder might return, in a sequel if not DLC/expansion.
But I guess it wouldn't hurt if they met with success. After all, it's more money that can be spent somewhere to make more, and that's how business works, right? They hit with Anthem, they have the money to spend on Mass Effect/Dragon Age/Anthem continuation development that'll make them more?
As for Destiny's beta, they have a reputation for voice... something. It looked interesting, but not enough to bother with the Beta or even watch it anyhow closely.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 31, 2017 0:55:26 GMT
I dunno, I'm still hoping for the fact they simply have too much and Ryder might return, in a sequel if not DLC/expansion. But I guess it wouldn't hurt if they met with success. After all, it's more money that can be spent somewhere to make more, and that's how business works, right? They hit with Anthem, they have the money to spend on Mass Effect/Dragon Age/Anthem continuation development that'll make them more? As for Destiny's beta, they have a reputation for voice... something. It looked interesting, but not enough to bother with the Beta or even watch it anyhow closely. I'm in full support of MEA2 whenever BioWare returns to the franchise. I actually loved MEA. It's not perfect, but it's the most well-rounded and fun Mass Effect game, in my opinion. Success definitely gives BioWare more flexibility and more opportunities. Whereas failures restrict what BioWare can do and they are less likely to take risks and be creative. I just expected better than what I experienced. Bungie really seems to have dropped down in quality, even when compared to the Halo trilogy. I suppose many of those developers don't work at Bungie anymore, as many jumped ship to 343 and other studios.
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Post by CursedPanther on Aug 31, 2017 7:44:17 GMT
I've never played Destiny myself. From the responses I've got from another forum, D1 has everything to do with grinding and literally nothing to do with story. I'd be surprised if D2 has any kind of real decent voice acting, as it'll more than likely just be more of the D1 type of content.
I sure hope Anthem has nothing to do with whatever D1 has been doing all along these years.
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Post by Sartoz on Aug 31, 2017 12:13:18 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
A golden nugget is just given to Anthem, if D2 turns out to be lackluster. What Bio does with it is another ... ahem.. story.
RIFT is something I mostly played solo. It was all about exploration and little to no story. It got boring after all that grinding. Then, I joined Raid groups. Fun for a while but same old - same old. In the main centres you could see many narcissistic players clothed in their fancy micro$transaction fluffery. ... riding exotic animals or wearing rainbow colour emitting gear... god, I hope Anthem will not be like that.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Aug 31, 2017 12:51:26 GMT
We could say D2 is lackluster but it's already breaking its own records from the first game on beta players and pre-orders. It a BEAST when it comes to profit and attention.
I'd go to the destiny forums myself to see what those players think. Most are actually pretty optimistic about it, it'll have an actual story to it, it's putting more effort into balancing pvp(my own biggest issue with D1), it's a straight up upgrade to D1 in just about every aspect based off beta impressions. The only issues I've seen is Bungie reusing assets, balancing out pvp and catering to that crowd more so than the PvE crowd (and really it's only a small group of PvErs that are upset and reaching at this point) and still refusing to use dedicated servers and 60 frames. There's other issues but I'd say what I listed is probably the most brought up issues.
I'd say right off that hat it'll still be the smoothest shooter in the market but it's also putting in more of an effort to improve everything else based off beta, I won't judge till full game is out cause they can easily make it look good from the start but it goes down after. It is new Bungie after all(new Bungie likes to make it look good but eventually you find out it's all a lie 👌), not the legendary guys that left a near decade ago.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Aug 31, 2017 20:26:02 GMT
I've never played Destiny myself. From the responses I've got from another forum, D1 has everything to do with grinding and literally nothing to do with story. I'd be surprised if D2 has any kind of real decent voice acting, as it'll more than likely just be more of the D1 type of content. I sure hope Anthem has nothing to do with whatever D1 has been doing all along these years. Destiny is just a really poor attempt at an MMO, with the main experience being shooting enemies and collecting loot. There really isn't much depth to the game, and it becomes rather redundant and stale very quickly. If not for the fact that console gamers never really have experienced good MMOs, I think Destiny would have tanked completely. I'm right there with you. I don't want Anthem to be anything like Destiny. If Destiny and The Division should tell us anything, it's that those kinds of games die a few months after release due to a lack of compelling content. -(_ANTHEM_)-
A golden nugget is just given to Anthem, if D2 turns out to be lackluster. What Bio does with it is another ... ahem.. story.
RIFT is something I mostly played solo. It was all about exploration and little to no story. It got boring after all that grinding. Then, I joined Raid groups. Fun for a while but same old - same old. In the main centres you could see many narcissistic players clothed in their fancy micro$transaction fluffery. ... riding exotic animals or wearing rainbow colour emitting gear... god, I hope Anthem will not be like that. Agreed. I've never played RIFT, but I've played my fair share of PC MMOs. Theme parks, in particular (WoW, SWTOR, ESO, etc.) are the worst kind of games because they become boring so quickly. They are built entirely on developer-made content. Folks plow through the content, and once it's been exhausted, folks get bored. It's why I always preferred sandbox MMOs (SWG, DFO, etc.), as they have far more longevity and replay value. I expect there will be microtransactions in Anthem, but I hope it's minimal and doens't impact the experience at all. It would be absolutely terrible if it resembles the microtransactions in ME3/MEA MP, buying crates to cut down purposely-inflated grinds. We could say D2 is lackluster but it's already breaking its own records from the first game on beta players and pre-orders. It a BEAST when it comes to profit and attention. I'd go to the destiny forums myself to see what those players think. Most are actually pretty optimistic about it, it'll have an actual story to it, it's putting more effort into balancing pvp(my own biggest issue with D1), it's a straight up upgrade to D1 in just about every aspect based off beta impressions. The only issues I've seen is Bungie reusing assets, balancing out pvp and catering to that crowd more so than the PvE crowd (and really it's only a small group of PvErs that are upset and reaching at this point) and still refusing to use dedicated servers and 60 frames. There's other issues but I'd say what I listed is probably the most brought up issues. I'd say right off that hat it'll still be the smoothest shooter in the market but it's also putting in more of an effort to improve everything else based off beta, I won't judge till full game is out cause they can easily make it look good from the start but it goes down after. It is new Bungie after all(new Bungie likes to make it look good but eventually you find out it's all a lie 👌), not the legendary guys that left a near decade ago. I have no doubt the game will do well its first few weeks, to maybe a few months. However, that player base will quickly die off once all of the major content has been explored. Much like is the case with Destiny 1, most will leave and some will return for new expansions. Otherwise, you can't really go by the initial surge of players, especially since Destiny 2 is coming to a new platform adding more to that player base. Destiny 2 is nothing more than an upgraded Destiny 1. It mainly just fixes major flaws with the first game, but hardly does anything truly new. For those who liked Destiny 1, they'll like Destiny 2. For those that were expecting more, they'll be disappointed by Destiny 2. It's not a major innovation from the first game, and I see folks jumping ship rather quickly after the hype wears off. What's ironic is most of the Bungie legends are still at 343, and they completely butchered Halo 5: Guardians. The new Bungie may as well be an entirely different studio, as barely anyone from the Halo days is still there. That's why I believe BioWare has an opportunity to really outdo Destiny 2, provided Anthem truly is something to be excited for.
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Post by Cyonan on Aug 31, 2017 20:58:22 GMT
I played the beta and while there is a lack of things to really do in it, I don't think it really spells doom for the game.
I think the importance of story is a bit overstated here. Under normal circumstances story would be important but this is by BioWare's own admission a game that they want to be supporting for a decade. Games that have that kind of staying power among a large enough fanbase typically don't do so because of story, but rather gameplay.
A good story might help to get people into it at first, but it's not going to provide the staying power they're looking for as far as I can see.
My understanding is that one of the main failings of Destiny 1 was the overly grindy end game content, which if they can fix this then they still have a pretty good game. As BioWare should have learned from SWtoR, having a good end game at launch is very important because your players are going to rush to max level quicker than you probably thought they would and once they do, they want content to do that isn't going to bore them to death which loses those players and many of them likely aren't coming back even if you do improve things a few months down the line.
This is the same thing that Anthem is going to have to figure out as well. That and still having good gunplay, but given the last two Mass Effect games I have enough faith that they'll be able to pull off fairly solid gunplay from the game.
If they can do that combined with a good story and characters, then I think they'll have hit a homerun almost regardless of what Destiny 2 does.
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Post by Pearl on Aug 31, 2017 21:39:29 GMT
My understanding is that one of the main failings of Destiny 1 was the overly grindy end game content, which if they can fix this then they still have a pretty good game. As BioWare should have learned from SWtoR, having a good end game at launch is very important because your players are going to rush to max level quicker than you probably thought they would and once they do, they want content to do that isn't going to bore them to death which loses those players and many of them likely aren't coming back even if you do improve things a few months down the line. Yes, this was certainly the case from release to the first major expansion came out one year later. After that, the main issue switched to Bungie not really adding any new content to keep the game fresh. The expansion, called The Taken King, was a pretty decent amount of new content (as most major expansions tend to be), but it was almost eight months until the next addition of new content. Compare that to the vanilla game which had two smaller DLC packs release in the same time frame, and it led to a lot of the more dedicated players burning out or feeling like Bungie didn't care about them/the game. Combine that with Bungie's very laissez-faire approach to balance passes (typically there would be around two to three months between significant balance changes, with minor tweaks or fixes coming out whenever they felt like it), and as a result, the PVP became very stale. They also took a pretty hamfisted approach to buffs/nerfs, where instead of just addressing one weapon that was too strong/too weak, they would apply the change to the entire archetype (groups of weapons within the same category that had identical fire rates and base damage), so they would frequently wind up destroying an entire subset of guns in an attempt to reign in one outlier. Apparently this was due to a technical issue on their backend systems, and it wasn't possible to address one specific weapon, but the end result was the same regardless of the reasons behind it. Supposedly all these concerns have been addressed if the marketing is to be believed, but after spending quite a lot of time with D1 for the first year of its existence, I'm not convinced.
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Post by Qolx on Aug 31, 2017 23:58:52 GMT
"DESTINY 2'S LACKLUSTER BETA LEAVES THE DOOR WIDE OPEN FOR ANTHEM."
I don't think that's necessarily true. Anthem might also leave the door open for another game if its overlaps too much with Destiny 2. That's the perception already despite the little info available. The comments above explain what Anthem should bring to the table if it wants to stay.
Basically, be Anthem not Destiny.
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Post by CursedPanther on Sept 1, 2017 7:08:59 GMT
Anyone cares to put the gameplay of SWTOR in a nutshell? My MMORPG experience is rather limited and confined to mostly Guild Wars 2 to be honest.
Is it too far fetched to assume that BW will somewhat the SWTOR formula? At this point the game does give us all kinds of hint that it'll be BW's first major attempt at creating an original MMORPG. I obviously am no expert on the subject however.
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Post by Cyonan on Sept 1, 2017 7:17:34 GMT
Anyone cares to put the gameplay of SWTOR in a nutshell? My MMORPG experience is rather limited and confined to mostly Guild Wars 2 to be honest. Is it too far fetched to assume that BW will somewhat the SWTOR formula? At this point the game does give us all kinds of hint that it'll be BW's first major attempt at creating an original MMORPG. I obviously am no expert on the subject however. They're not using the core SWtoR gameplay, which was a hotkey MMO. It's similar to Guild Wars 2, except you get more abilities and switching weapon types doesn't change what abilities you have. If you've ever played Dragon Age, it's basically that style of combat without being able to control multiple characters. From what we've seen of Anthem so far, the gameplay will be a third person shooter that looks pretty similar to Mass Effect if we all had Ironman suits. There's some debate as to if it's even a MMO since that term isn't terribly well defined. It's been suggested that once you leave town and go into the world, the only other people you'll run into are people you specifically invite into your party which MMOs usually have a persistent game world where you can run into thousands of other players. Of course, Guild Wars 1 did the same thing as what Anthem seems to be and we still called that a MMO. As I said, the term isn't terribly well defined and many are calling games like Destiny(the main game Anthem is currently being compared to) as "MMO-lite". Although we don't know enough about Anthem to know how similar it will be to games like Destiny and the Division. Which unfortunately "We don't know enough yet" is the answer to a lot of questions about Anthem right now, because all we've had is one short gameplay trailer and a few comments on social media about it.
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Post by CursedPanther on Sept 1, 2017 7:52:27 GMT
Anyone cares to put the gameplay of SWTOR in a nutshell? My MMORPG experience is rather limited and confined to mostly Guild Wars 2 to be honest. Is it too far fetched to assume that BW will somewhat the SWTOR formula? At this point the game does give us all kinds of hint that it'll be BW's first major attempt at creating an original MMORPG. I obviously am no expert on the subject however. They're not using the core SWtoR gameplay, which was a hotkey MMO. It's similar to Guild Wars 2, except you get more abilities and switching weapon types doesn't change what abilities you have. If you've ever played Dragon Age, it's basically that style of combat without being able to control multiple characters. From what we've seen of Anthem so far, the gameplay will be a third person shooter that looks pretty similar to Mass Effect if we all had Ironman suits. There's some debate as to if it's even a MMO since that term isn't terribly well defined. It's been suggested that once you leave town and go into the world, the only other people you'll run into are people you specifically invite into your party which MMOs usually have a persistent game world where you can run into thousands of other players. Of course, Guild Wars 1 did the same thing as what Anthem seems to be and we still called that a MMO. As I said, the term isn't terribly well defined and many are calling games like Destiny(the main game Anthem is currently being compared to) as "MMO-lite". Although we don't know enough about Anthem to know how similar it will be to games like Destiny and the Division. Which unfortunately "We don't know enough yet" is the answer to a lot of questions about Anthem right now, because all we've had is one short gameplay trailer and a few comments on social media about it. I've missed most of this year's Gamescom news actually. Has there been any new footage of Anthem other than what is shown to us during E3 and gives us a better idea? You know how the mega-publishers these days love to show the audiences cinematic trailers with pseudo gameplay, but reflects extremely little of the final product as we all eventually find out. Now come to think more of it, Warframe might be the more accurate comparison here.
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Post by spacev3gan on Sept 1, 2017 8:45:13 GMT
Destiny Beta lackluster? It's been hailed among the circles I am part of (which focus more on the technical aspects of the game). The level of graphical optimization achieved is this game is almost a benchmark. As Hardware Unboxed have noted, "for a Beta, this game is more polished than most AAA titles". Bioware and their Frostbite engine come nowhere near. In fact, both Andromeda and Inquisition, as finished products, are far buggier and less-optimized than Destiny 2 Beta. A third Bioware game running on Frostbite, given their company history, in this day and age, is pretty concerning to say the least.
Now the Beta didn't show much story-wise, that is true. But it is not supposed to! A 20-minute intro isn't supposed to be jaw dropping story-wise. People who thought otherwise before playing the game probably forgot it was a Beta to test and give a sneak peek of its technical aspects and hardly anything else.
Voice acting comes down to personal taste. I liked it, but yeah, Bioware might have done better at some point. Now the music, did someone not like it? Though that is also a matter of personal taste, I found it great, relaxing and yet sumptuous at the right moments.
Also one element important to be considered in a multiplayer game is having a solid, large and fairly-active playerbase. Bioware did not have that over their last Multiplayer endeavors. Now some might say that Anthem can change that being a MP-only game; though on the other hand, a large chunk potential players are the usual Bioware fans who might not be happy with the directions the company is heading and might decide not to support Anthem. For Destiny 2 this is not an issue, though, as sales figures soar and the game is likely to have a 6 or 7-digit playerbase on any of the 3 platforms.
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Post by Pounce de León on Sept 1, 2017 9:05:37 GMT
Anyone cares to put the gameplay of SWTOR in a nutshell? My MMORPG experience is rather limited and confined to mostly Guild Wars 2 to be honest. Is it too far fetched to assume that BW will somewhat the SWTOR formula? At this point the game does give us all kinds of hint that it'll be BW's first major attempt at creating an original MMORPG. I obviously am no expert on the subject however. They're not using the core SWtoR gameplay, which was a hotkey MMO. ... Is that the expression for it? It quite fits. In combat it is essesntially typing down a series of powers - a "rotation". I rarely changed it, unless a specific enemy or situation required so. I became quite proficient in hitting the right key.
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Post by Cyonan on Sept 1, 2017 9:22:29 GMT
I've missed most of this year's Gamescom news actually. Has there been any new footage of Anthem other than what is shown to us during E3 and gives us a better idea? You know how the mega-publishers these days love to show the audiences cinematic trailers with pseudo gameplay, but reflects extremely little of the final product as we all eventually find out. Now come to think more of it, Warframe might be the more accurate comparison here. There hasn't been any other footage, although we're still just over a year away from the game so it's not terribly surprising. I don't expect to really see much this year at all. Warframe seems like a really good comparison in terms of gameplay from what we've seen so far, albeit with less mobility than we get in Warframe. They're not using the core SWtoR gameplay, which was a hotkey MMO. ... Is that the expression for it? It quite fits. In combat it is essesntially typing down a series of powers - a "rotation". I rarely changed it, unless a specific enemy or situation required so. I became quite proficient in hitting the right key. That's what most people I know call it. Personally my favourite in the genre is still World of Warcraft even though I think it's been going mostly downhill for quite some time now. SWtoR ran into the problem that a lot of us MMO veterans were max level within a week of launch and wondering what we were supposed to do. My guild consisted mostly of people from my WoW guild that had just finished hard mode raiding in Wrath of the Lich King and we utterly destroyed the SWtoR raids. The biggest thing holding us back was the sheer bugginess of the last boss. Hopefully BioWare learns from that with Anthem and can keep people around with interesting content.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 1, 2017 16:02:19 GMT
Destiny Beta lackluster? It's been hailed among the circles I am part of (which focus more on the technical aspects of the game). The level of graphical optimization achieved is this game is almost a benchmark. As Hardware Unboxed have noted, "for a Beta, this game is more polished than most AAA titles". Bioware and their Frostbite engine come nowhere near. In fact, both Andromeda and Inquisition, as finished products, are far buggier and less-optimized than Destiny 2 Beta. A third Bioware game running on Frostbite, given their company history, in this day and age, is pretty concerning to say the least. Even Destiny 1 on console was pretty solid. They've got a good track record for stability. BUT, D2 is still vulnerable, no matter how silky smooth the graphics and gameplay are. The door opening isn't about D2 being bad relative to D1, it's about D2 not being different enough to capture fickle players in the franchise. Since there is a cost associated with leaving D1 for D2, why not consider other franchises? Since you have to start your grind over from scratch anyway. It's not like the story or lore of D1 is particularly compelling of loyalty. Anthem 1.0, even if moderately buggy and with 20% negatives in terms of gameplay and features, has an edge over D2 just for being new and different. As long as Anthem 1.0 doesn't fuck up quality as badly as MEA and doesn't ship until it's really ready, it has a shot to steal some audience, or even capture some dual loyalties from players who only play D2 casually.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Sept 1, 2017 18:08:11 GMT
"I have no doubt the game will do well its first few weeks, to maybe a few months. However, that player base will quickly die off once all of the major content has been explored. Much like is the case with Destiny 1, most will leave and some will return for new expansions. Otherwise, you can't really go by the initial surge of players, especially since Destiny 2 is coming to a new platform adding more to that player base.
Destiny 2 is nothing more than an upgraded Destiny 1. It mainly just fixes major flaws with the first game, but hardly does anything truly new. For those who liked Destiny 1, they'll like Destiny 2. For those that were expecting more, they'll be disappointed by Destiny 2. It's not a major innovation from the first game, and I see folks jumping ship rather quickly after the hype wears off.
What's ironic is most of the Bungie legends are still at 343, and they completely butchered Halo 5: Guardians. The new Bungie may as well be an entirely different studio, as barely anyone from the Halo days is still there. That's why I believe BioWare has an opportunity to really outdo Destiny 2, provided Anthem truly is something to be excited for."
____________________________________ My response since my phone wouldn't delete the multi-quotes: Destinys playerbase really won't suffer, the game was sitting in the top 5 for game population for both play station and Xbox, it's longevity held up pretty good even for a game that had content droughts that spanned months. Right now it rotates between 7-15 all the time on the most played list, pretty good for a game almost 4 years old and one that's not really an mmo at that. Yes, you'll see a drop off but the game is already consistent on high player counts, and it's only going to get bigger with D2 since they're opening up to another platform and already breaking their own records.
As for this "destiny 2 is nothing more but an upgraded destiny 1" it kind of should be since it's a sequel. I will however say I could argue vs that point with how they've changed pvp and certain features to PvE and the weapons system. It's to early to judge if they've improved the quest and raid structure but they are at least hinting they did.
Here's my own story on destiny:biggest disappoint ever. You know how people claim nothing is "perfect?" Well destiny is the only game I've ever went in with the expectation of perfection. Why? First it was Bungie, the name that made halo, the name that owned halo when it was actually good (cause screw 343). Second being they had 7? 6 years? They had a long time dating back to ODST/Reach that it was in pre-development/concept stage AND they are backed by their own brand name and Activision, probably the only publisher that puts themselves out there to the absolute MAX when it comes to hype and advertisement, they also gave the franchise(note I said franchise, cause many people mix it up with D1 getting all 500M to itself which is just wrong lol, game would be a much bigger disappoint if that were true) a 500 million dollar budget so you had the impression they were SERIOUS on making this thing work. So they had the time and money backing it. Third it's concept of being a fps/RPG/MMO loot shooter hybrid isn't really common. The concept alone drew in people cause it could be the first to doing some correctly and redefine the industry (and it has failed). Fourth it was a new space sci-fi game, and there really isn't a lot of intriguing space Sci-fi games out there so it was a new addition to that side. Fifth would be all the promises they made that'd be in the game from sparrow racing (took a year before it got added), player trading (never happened), "you can go to that mountain" (never happened and they lied about the openness of their worlds) exotics actually being "exotic" (they were given out like candy), lack of a story, lack of interesting characters, characters saying "I don't have time to explain why I don't have time to explain" 😒And much much more I could lust. Point is I legit expected a "perfect" game and it didn't happen, it crushed my dream on the franchise and Bungie a name means nothing to me anymore cause they just aren't the same people anymore.
Back to destiny 2: going by just beta impressions and everything they've said (which I do take with a grain of salt) it shows they've learned off D1 and D2 "should" play out better. Regardless of the BS that was D1 I did still put in 1,300k hours and pvp wise I'm loving D2 cause honestly it does halo better than halo is doing right now. PvE has to earn its place and Bungie needs to establish their new version of themselves cause the old Bungie is no more. I still liked D1 (I mean, I did put 1.3k hours into it you know) but it was a HUGE disappointment to what I was expecting. Kind of like Andromeda but on a much bigger scale.
The game WILL stomp its competition financially and it WILL still hold a consistent playerbase like the first one if not bigger. Regardless of my own feelings most people still get so addicted to it that it really can't fail, it's that type of game even if people don't like it.
As for Anthem: because destiny already failed I'd like to hope Anthem can win me over, but Anthem won't have my expectations of being "perfect" so it disappointing me won't be as big of a blow, plus bioware hasn't given me any impression that they can make a game as big as destiny when none of their previous games have ever been top of the market. As great as mass effect, dragon age, baldurs gate, etc etc are, they've never owned the market or even really competed at that level, they've always been the underdogs just barely getting by in the AAA industry. Like I said, I want them to succeed, but I won't be disappointed if they don't cause it won't be surprise to me.
Finishing this off: 343 only has a handful of ex Bungie employees, mainly frank o Conner being the biggest name and he's not even development, he's just the PR guy everyone yells at. Much of the ex Bungie members have started their own studio or just quit. Certain affinity would be where most went.
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Post by Qolx on Sept 2, 2017 0:59:55 GMT
Even Destiny 1 on console was pretty solid. They've got a good track record for stability. BUT, D2 is still vulnerable, no matter how silky smooth the graphics and gameplay are. The door opening isn't about D2 being bad relative to D1, it's about D2 not being different enough to capture fickle players in the franchise. Since there is a cost associated with leaving D1 for D2, why not consider other franchises? Since you have to start your grind over from scratch anyway. It's not like the story or lore of D1 is particularly compelling of loyalty. Anthem 1.0, even if moderately buggy and with 20% negatives in terms of gameplay and features, has an edge over D2 just for being new and different. As long as Anthem 1.0 doesn't fuck up quality as badly as MEA and doesn't ship until it's really ready, it has a shot to steal some audience, or even capture some dual loyalties from players who only play D2 casually. I don't think Destiny 2 is vulnerable at all. It will keep Destiny's playerbase and lock in fickle players if the story and lore are slightly better than D1's. I also disagree that Anthem has an edge over D2 because of its "newness or difference"; we know very little about Anthem and it's not like the 3rd person or open world aspects are strong selling points. It should not directly compete with D2, anyways. Anthem will attract many Destiny players yet the bulk of Anthem players will be BioWare fans, including most of us whinging about it. BW needs to entice the ME3 crowd it lost off ME:A back to Anthem. They will be off to a great start if they bring back 5mill that first month and I think BW can pull it off.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Sept 2, 2017 2:30:18 GMT
Anthem will attract many Destiny players yet the bulk of Anthem players will be BioWare fans, including most of us whinging about it. BW needs to entice the ME3 crowd it lost off ME:A back to Anthem. They will be off to a great start if they bring back 5mill that first month and I think BW can pull it off. With any luck, that won't be true -- the majority of happy customers need to be players who have never even heard of Bioware, because there's about 10 of those to every 1 of us. I stick to my theory that the main motivation for doing Anthem in the first place was to open up the Action Game market and not put all the revenue eggs in the RPG basket. EA pretty much said as much back in that quarterly review slide deck a while back. The hype around /r/AnthemTheGame seems to be mostly non-BW gamers, and while the BW gamers who post there seem to be pretty hyped too, the biggest nattering nabobs of negativity seem to be all hardcore BW types who just want to shit all over everything in retribution for MEA. The calculation is that Bioware can do a better Action Game than traditional Action Game companies, because of their writing, world building and design talent. Which you gotta admit, is pretty deep. A familiar loot-shoot with Bioware secret sauce could be a winner. As for the ME crowd -- I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole of pure polonium, business-wise. There is absolutely no upside to do anything for the worst of that crowd. Indeed, doing anything, no matter how well-intentioned, will just antagonize them. Let the wounds scab over and maybe in 50 years or whatever the half life of ME fandom rage is, they can think about bringing the franchise back ...
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Post by Qolx on Sept 2, 2017 3:12:07 GMT
Good post PapaCharlie9. I agree 99%. The only thing I think you might be wrong is the ME crowd: they're unavoidable either way. They'll be in Anthem mitching about how it should have been Mass Effect blah blah. Guaranteed.
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Post by spacev3gan on Sept 2, 2017 5:38:36 GMT
Anthem 1.0, even if moderately buggy and with 20% negatives in terms of gameplay and features, has an edge over D2 just for being new and different. As long as Anthem 1.0 doesn't fuck up quality as badly as MEA and doesn't ship until it's really ready, it has a shot to steal some audience, or even capture some dual loyalties from players who only play D2 casually. Moderately buggy and 20% negatives sounds pretty optimistic to me. Inquisition MP 7 months post-release arguably got to that level of polishing, despite having been unplayable for its first few months. Andromeda MP however is nowhere near this level of polishing even today, version 1.10. It has had crucial bugs from day one that have never been fixed, such as off-host headshot not registering and teleporting enemies.Between Inquisition and Andromeda, I myself have invested some thousands of hours in their MP modes, and I can say I have never seen worst netcoding in gaming yet. These games are plagued with netcoding bugs, teleporting or invisible enemies, invisible walls, characters falling off maps, powers not working and eye-soring rubberbanding at latencies that should be playable, like 80 - 150 ms. Playing any other modern online game out there at the same latencies feels like playing a campaign mode. 3 years of development between Inquisition and Andromeda didn't solve any netcoding issue - they arguably have gotten worse. How can one expect Bioware to release another Frostbite game just over a year later and hope for it to be clean of bugs? Well, I have reasons to be very skeptical. What Anthem has going for it though is not competing directly against Destiny 2 on sales, after all, it is being released a year later. It can steal some lapsed Destiny players, but that is as far as its impact on Destiny 2 might go. By the time Anthem is out Destiny 2 might have already broken the 8-digit sales. I am not leaving the door closed for Anthem yet, it is being released so far after Destiny 2 that I might see myself putting 60 buck on it. Still, any hype for it feels unfounded given Bioware's poor records with Frostbite engine.
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Post by Revan Reborn on Sept 2, 2017 6:14:20 GMT
I played the beta and while there is a lack of things to really do in it, I don't think it really spells doom for the game. I think the importance of story is a bit overstated here. Under normal circumstances story would be important but this is by BioWare's own admission a game that they want to be supporting for a decade. Games that have that kind of staying power among a large enough fanbase typically don't do so because of story, but rather gameplay. A good story might help to get people into it at first, but it's not going to provide the staying power they're looking for as far as I can see. My understanding is that one of the main failings of Destiny 1 was the overly grindy end game content, which if they can fix this then they still have a pretty good game. As BioWare should have learned from SWtoR, having a good end game at launch is very important because your players are going to rush to max level quicker than you probably thought they would and once they do, they want content to do that isn't going to bore them to death which loses those players and many of them likely aren't coming back even if you do improve things a few months down the line. This is the same thing that Anthem is going to have to figure out as well. That and still having good gunplay, but given the last two Mass Effect games I have enough faith that they'll be able to pull off fairly solid gunplay from the game. If they can do that combined with a good story and characters, then I think they'll have hit a homerun almost regardless of what Destiny 2 does. It's not "doom" in the sense that Destiny 2 already has an install base: all the console gamers that loved Destiny 1 and continue to play it. What Destiny 2's lackluster beta could spell doom for, however, are newcomers or those who were hoping Destiny 2 was a massive improvement over the first game. I think most will agree Destiny 2 is not a massive improvement over Destiny 1, so I don't really see Destiny 2's player base growing substantially. The only substantial growth I could see happening would be on the PC platform. My point is many will see Destiny 2 as more of the same, thus something like Anthem looks more appealing as a result. That's not to say that Anthem will ultimately be a better game, but it definitely puts BioWare in a more favorable position. As far as how BioWare tackles the "decade support" issue, I don't believe it needs to be handled like an MMO necessarily. Even raids and arena-based PvP can become rather redundant and tedious after a while. Not that this is necessarily an ideal example, but Telltale Games has made a career off of doing episodic storytelling. It would certainly be an interesting idea for Anthem to have monthly updates of new story advancing the narrative forward. BioWare actually tried that with the Knights of the Fallen Empire expansion for SWTOR, and the monthly chapters were actually quite successful. Destiny Beta lackluster? It's been hailed among the circles I am part of (which focus more on the technical aspects of the game). The level of graphical optimization achieved is this game is almost a benchmark. As Hardware Unboxed have noted, "for a Beta, this game is more polished than most AAA titles". Bioware and their Frostbite engine come nowhere near. In fact, both Andromeda and Inquisition, as finished products, are far buggier and less-optimized than Destiny 2 Beta. A third Bioware game running on Frostbite, given their company history, in this day and age, is pretty concerning to say the least. Now the Beta didn't show much story-wise, that is true. But it is not supposed to! A 20-minute intro isn't supposed to be jaw dropping story-wise. People who thought otherwise before playing the game probably forgot it was a Beta to test and give a sneak peek of its technical aspects and hardly anything else. Voice acting comes down to personal taste. I liked it, but yeah, Bioware might have done better at some point. Now the music, did someone not like it? Though that is also a matter of personal taste, I found it great, relaxing and yet sumptuous at the right moments. Also one element important to be considered in a multiplayer game is having a solid, large and fairly-active playerbase. Bioware did not have that over their last Multiplayer endeavors. Now some might say that Anthem can change that being a MP-only game; though on the other hand, a large chunk potential players are the usual Bioware fans who might not be happy with the directions the company is heading and might decide not to support Anthem. For Destiny 2 this is not an issue, though, as sales figures soar and the game is likely to have a 6 or 7-digit playerbase on any of the 3 platforms. I acknowledged the visuals, gun play, and optimization are all well-executed. However, the game, itself, is a slightly better Destiny 1 with some changes. That might please those who are already sold on the Destiny experience, but it won't necessarily entice newcomers or those disappointed with the first game to jump in. We received a lot more of the story in the Destiny 1 beta, as well as much more of the game as a whole. It really is quite puzzling why the Destiny 2 beta was so limited. What is Bungie trying to hide? Is there really so little content in this game? That's the only question that pops in my head, being as void and empty in content as its predecessor at launch. The music reminded me of a very generic Halo soundtrack. Considering Marty O'Donnell is no longer with Bungie due to the falling out they had, I suppose that's all the studio can really do at this point. BioWare has experience with large online communities via SWTOR. No idea what the player base size is now, considering the game went F2P. If Anthem is indeed a legitimate BioWare RPG, but also having the added benefit of having a fully integrated online coop, then I could see that bringing in plenty of old fans and new ones. Since BioWare does have experience with online games, they also aren't completely out of their element. Whereas Bungie had no idea what they were doing with Destiny, considering they had never made a game like that previously. Good post PapaCharlie9 . I agree 99%. The only thing I think you might be wrong is the ME crowd: they're unavoidable either way. They'll be in Anthem mitching about how it should have been Mass Effect blah blah. Guaranteed. I don't tend to take the most outspoken Mass Effect fans very seriously. They'll whine and complain, but many of them will still buy the next BioWare game, whether it's Anthem or Dragon Age 4. Even with the recent fumbling BioWare has done with the Mass Effect franchise, it's so iconic and beloved that most fans will always want more.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 2, 2017 14:39:35 GMT
Anthem will attract many Destiny players yet the bulk of Anthem players will be BioWare fans, including most of us whinging about it. BW needs to entice the ME3 crowd it lost off ME:A back to Anthem. They will be off to a great start if they bring back 5mill that first month and I think BW can pull it off. SnipAs for the ME crowd -- I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole of pure polonium, business-wise. There is absolutely no upside to do anything for the worst of that crowd. Indeed, doing anything, no matter how well-intentioned, will just antagonize them. Let the wounds scab over and maybe in 50 years or whatever the half life of ME fandom rage is, they can think about bringing the franchise back ... -(_ANTHEM_)-
That's rather harsh thing to say. Sure, some are really pizzed off at the no DLC but my view is the numbers are small potatoes. These will exist no matter what. BIo + EA are looking at the "bigger" picture. Besides, Anthem is a new IP and the target market appears to be the shooter crowd. Too bad it's all speculation at this point.... I really want one of those "leaks" to get posted real soon now.
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