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Post by hero11n7 on Sept 20, 2017 2:00:47 GMT
So what do you want to see? You think they'll be mostly the same as DAI? Will ones from previous games make a comeback? Entirely new ones?
I wouldn't mind seeing Spirit Warrior again
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formerfiend
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 20, 2017 2:13:49 GMT
I was actually super disappointed that Spirit Warrior and Spirit Healer didn't appear in Inquisition. Felt they'd be massively appropriate given, you know, the fade being torn open. I get spirit healer getting the axe because they wanted to break away from healing, but, you know, fuck that noise.
A part of me wondered if it wasn't because Asunder established that Cole couldn't make spirit healers & the like forget him and they felt they needed that out for players who didn't want Cole in the party, but it's unlikely that had anything to do with it.
Anyway, back on track; I imagine Reaver will return once again being that it's thematically appropriate for a game in Tevinter. I'd like to see Blood Mage make a comeback as well. I'd also like to see Berserker make a return, especially if we'll be getting a lot of dwarf stuff.
I actually have my doubts as to whether or not Templar will be an option again. It is a mainstay of the series but they don't have proper templars in Tevinter so they'll have to contrive away for that to show up, not that they're by any means incapable of that.
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Post by hero11n7 on Sept 20, 2017 2:23:56 GMT
I was actually super disappointed that Spirit Warrior and Spirit Healer didn't appear in Inquisition. Felt they'd be massively appropriate given, you know, the fade being torn open. I get spirit healer getting the axe because they wanted to break away from healing, but, you know, fuck that noise. A part of me wondered if it wasn't because Asunder established that Cole couldn't make spirit healers & the like forget him and they felt they needed that out for players who didn't want Cole in the party, but it's unlikely that had anything to do with it. Anyway, back on track; I imagine Reaver will return once again being that it's thematically appropriate for a game in Tevinter. I'd like to see Blood Mage make a comeback as well. I'd also like to see Berserker make a return, especially if we'll be getting a lot of dwarf stuff. I actually have my doubts as to whether or not Templar will be an option again. It is a mainstay of the series but they don't have proper templars in Tevinter so they'll have to contrive away for that to show up, not that they're by any means incapable of that. I felt the same way about inquisition. Maybe Spirit Warrior can replace Templar as the semi-magic knight/paladin spec for warriors
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Post by Jarovbees on Sept 20, 2017 2:28:41 GMT
I'd be down for a revamp of Spirit Warrior, definitely. I also want Shapeshifter and Ranger to return, along with Spirit Healer. And I have a strong suspicion there will be a Fog Warrior specialization of some kind.
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Post by shaqfu on Sept 20, 2017 2:30:22 GMT
I'm still holding out hope we can get a battlemage spec that fights like Hawke from the destiny trailer. I'd love to see a mage fight more melee based with their staff and have some close quarters abilities.
I think it'd also be cool to see the companions once again get a unique skill tree like in da2.
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Post by lucidae on Sept 20, 2017 4:24:07 GMT
Yay I'm glad this thread is here! I was thinking of making one myself.
What I want for specializations the most isn't necessarily a specific specialization, but to make specializations SPECIAL again. My biggest complaint about DAI was that the specializations sucked. I was so amped to be a rift mage in my first playthrough. And then I realized that literally EVERY SINGLE ACTIVE ABILITY was ripped off from battle mage or one of the old primal schools. EXCUSE ME? I was expecting some special stuff here! I was so angry that my focus ability - which is supposed to be like an ultimate - was just firestorm. That should have been the ability you unlock at the end of the fire tree, just like in the previous 2 games! Rift Mage sounded so awesome and lore driven because of the setting of DAI. But it was the biggest disappointment in the entire game for me. Nothing was new or fresh about it. Then there was knight enchanter.... Another misleading "specialization." It ended up being arcane warrior 2.0 with a heal (why?). It made Arcane Warrior feel so much less special to me. Arcane warrior was supposed to be a unique fighting style that had only existed during the time of elvhenan. But because people wanted arcane warrior back so badly they repackaged it as "knight enchanter". Sorry, but I don't take the bait on that one. And I will not believe that the circles of southern Thedas would ever encourage learning how to use a magical energy sword. Everything else in the lore up to this point proves and implies that mages of the circle are pretty dainty, from being so sheltered and restrained, and like to keep their distance in fights. I also don't see Vivienne as being one to fight in such a brutish and laborious way as swinging about a sword. Then Necromancer, Champion, and Artificer felt incredibly lackluster to me. Necromancer didn't feel impactful or even like a necromancer. It also rehashed abilities that used to be part of the normal schools of magic. I was happy to see champion make a return, but it didn't really do anything for me. I would always rather just bring a templar who can pretty much do the same thing + combat magic. I never felt like the super crazy tanky abilities of champion helped because my tank was more than tanky enough without the champion abilities. Whenever I brought Blackwall with me I hardly ever used his specialization abilities simply because they didn't fill in any missing gap. Artificer seemed cool and I know some people enjoyed it, but I felt like I never needed traps in this game. I never felt especially rewarded for pulling off a great trap set up. Playing the game without an artificer in the party was easier and yielded the same results. Fire mine, ice mine, and the fire wall all felt so much more effective to me than the artificer specialization.
I will say though that I did thoroughly enjoy the Tempest specialization in DAI. Mechanically it was really fun, but thematically/conceptually felt awkward at times. I want to know where all these potions come from because they feel like something only a mage or tranquil could make. I also still enjoyed the assassin specialization and really enjoyed the new ability hidden blades!
My perfect world for DA4: Bring back companion specific specializations [even if they're just mini sized. Like half the size of a normal tree]. I loved them in DA2! They made companions feel even more special. I was pretty bitter that Varric could no longer hum Bianca's song in DAI. Companion specific abilities add a lot of flavor to the game imo. With companion specific specializations I think a protagonist specific specialization should exist too if possible. I loved that we could use the mark in battle as a focus ability, but was hoping we would learn how to do more with it later down the road. So I was happy that the mark had more practical uses in Trespasser. Just wish it happened sooner.
Assassin and Templar seems to be staple DA specializations now as they have appeared in every game. Assassin is probably my all time favorite specialization so I hope it does return. I think templar can still return because even if the game takes place in Tevinter, the companions aren't all going to be from Tevinter. It would be interesting seeing a templar having to exist on more of the fringes of society rather than being exalted as man's protector from the abominations like they are in the south.
I'd like at least 1 new mage specialization with NEW abilities as well as the return of blood mage. I see why blood mage wasn't in DAI and because of the story that DAI told, I didn't miss it. But I think it could probably be fitting in DA4 with going to Tevinter. As for a new specialization.... Maybe we can finally get a true pet class? I think a spirit medium specialization could be awesome too. I also want to see more spells like we used to have in the school of entropy. But I don't want entropy school spells being shoehorned into a "new" specialization.
Anyway. I think that about expresses my deep feelings on this topic.
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Post by davesin on Sept 20, 2017 7:25:02 GMT
Specializations I expect or would like to see:
Reaver - it appeared in all games and they are pretty much wide-spread across Thedas, so...
Spirit Warrior - I think Fenris once said that there are more warriors like him, although they are rare.
Magekiller - I haven't read said comic yet (and I probably won't), but if I understand correctly, Markus is a warrior trained to fight mages without any templar abilities, right? Since we're heading to Tevinter (probably), it sounds like it would be better anti-magic specialization than Templar in such setting.
Arcane Warrior - or something like that. Many people like this concept.
Assassin - the same case as Reaver.
Legionnaire - or specialization of dwarf origins, like Berserker and Legionnaire in Origins.
Blood mage - and with all the fancy stuff! Like sacrificing elven children for small boost of constitution, summoning demons and boiling another person's blood! MUhahahahahaha, mhahahahahahaah, hahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... Ehem.
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Post by tacsear on Sept 20, 2017 7:50:45 GMT
I would be happy with mage spells not being primal only. That was my biggest complain. I mean why would you even do that in the first place? Also blood mage..
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Post by mattjamho on Sept 20, 2017 12:14:38 GMT
I would be happy with mage spells not being primal only. That was my biggest complain. I mean why would you even do that in the first place? Also blood mage.. We definitely need the entropy and creation spell schools back. As for specializations, MagesBlood Mage, Battle Mage, and Spirit Binder (this would be the summoner/pet class) WarriorsReaver, Spirit Warrior, and Mage killer (to replace Templar) RoguesAssassin, Shadow, and some version of Tempest, but better than Inquisition's version. (I liked the concept, but it didn't deliver. Perhaps they throw enchanted bombs and grenades with those effects as well?)
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 20, 2017 12:15:50 GMT
Rogues:
Assassin - the single dps rogue
Scout - tougher than your average rogue, like legionaire but not specific to legion of the dead
Infiltrator - Tallis's anti magic spec in MotA. Since Tevinter doesn't have real Templars (and it looks like thats where da4 will be) we'll need a different Anti magic spec
Mage:
Blood Mage
Spirit Healer
Battle Mage - using an actual sword not a glowey magic one. Sourthern Chantry Circles seem to discourage regular combat training (as shown by one templars canceled swordmanship classes in the ferelden circle), probably because it makes apostate mages easy to take out once their magics been disrupted, whereas if they were trained in regular combat they could still fight back. But mages aren't so regulated in Tevinter, there is probably a greater variety of training and whose going to stop a mage from learning how to wield a sword if they want to?
Warrior:
Spirit Warrior - seems like a good game to bring this back new and improved, a warrior connecting to a spirit can't be as taboo in tevinter.
Reaver
Champion - or other defender/leader spec
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Post by wickedcool on Sept 20, 2017 13:27:25 GMT
Warrior Chevalier- based on masked empire
Mage Would love the return of blood mage and keeper and shaper (worse case have enemy shapers)
Rogue Legionnaire scout
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 20, 2017 13:34:10 GMT
Warrior Chevalier- based on masked empire Mage Would love the return of blood mage and keeper and shaper (worse case have enemy shapers) Rogue Legionnaire scout What is a shaper? I'm assuming you don't mean the dwarven historians.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2017 14:00:54 GMT
Healer Tree for every class like in SWTOR (i.e. Sawbones Rogue, Medic Warrior and Spirit Healer mage)
Shapeshifter for Mages Ranger for Warriors Pet Class for Rogues with some sort of a construct/contraption like self moving traps or oozes or vapors or something of a sinister alchemical nature
In DA3 I liked Knight Enchanter with Spirit Blade and Tempest Rogue with the flasks, so I would like to see that back
As a consequence of the Rifts more variations on either necromancy or summoning would be neat.
I would like to see something that came out of Descent i.e. magic tree, even if limited, for the dwarves.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 20, 2017 16:07:49 GMT
I'd love to see a Spirit/Demon possession spec.
Essentially allowing yourself to temporarily merge with a spirit/demon, transforming into an "abomination", and taking on aspects of them. A rage demon might grant you various fire abilities, stat boosts and some physical appearance changes. A spirit of command might grant you party buff abilities and fear/aggro abilities to enemies.
Nova/Focus abilities might transform you into something similar to a Revenant/Arcane Horror/etc. And it's broad enough a spec that it could apply to any base class.
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Post by N7Valentine on Sept 20, 2017 16:40:01 GMT
I miss being a blood mage. I mean if we really go to Tevinter I fully expect to play a damn blood mage. Ain't the real Tevinter without it And and Healers. How come they suddenly ceased to exist?
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 20, 2017 17:56:04 GMT
And and Healers. How come they suddenly ceased to exist? Game balancing essentially. Although I admit I'm surprised to hear that there are people who want a Healer spec in a game that isn't an MMO. I get that people have different tastes, but Healers are about the most boring spec I can imagine. That's what I liked about DAI, they left healing to consumables and balanced the game that way... sorta/mostly. The principle is sound though and I prefer that direction. We have limited slots for abilities and Healing spells just seem like a waste. An un-fun waste.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 20, 2017 18:46:01 GMT
Blood Mage and Spirit Healer are the ones I'd like most.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 20, 2017 18:51:29 GMT
Shapshifter!!! Pretty please?
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Post by pinkjellybeans on Sept 20, 2017 19:47:36 GMT
And and Healers. How come they suddenly ceased to exist? Game balancing essentially. Although I admit I'm surprised to hear that there are people who want a Healer spec in a game that isn't an MMO. I get that people have different tastes, but Healers are about the most boring spec I can imagine. That's what I liked about DAI, they left healing to consumables and balanced the game that way... sorta/mostly. The principle is sound though and I prefer that direction. We have limited slots for abilities and Healing spells just seem like a waste. An un-fun waste. I think healing magic should come back as a regular class like we had in past games. Or at least give us a companion that has that as a specialization. I just find it difficult to imagine that suddenly healing magic is not available anymore. I mean, supposedly it is, because we hear people talk about it throughout the game, but for some reason our character and companions don't know how to use it when in the past anyone could heal their allies. I don't buy the "we removed it because we wanted to make the game more challenging" excuse because there are other ways to make the game challenging without removing important spells and classes. For instances, they could (and should) make enemy mages a lot more scarier. Instead, they turned them into these weirdos with flying books that spam fire and ice mines, which is the one spell you can easily avoid. Removing spells/classes and limiting ability slots is not fun or challenging to me, it's just boring (because then we have less abilities to choose from so we always rely on the same ones over and over again, there's no diversity) and annoying (because then you're stuck with only 8 abilities to use while wasting others). But well, that's just my opinion. Maybe it's not a popular one. Haha
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Post by mattjamho on Sept 20, 2017 22:54:46 GMT
And and Healers. How come they suddenly ceased to exist? Game balancing essentially. Although I admit I'm surprised to hear that there are people who want a Healer spec in a game that isn't an MMO. I get that people have different tastes, but Healers are about the most boring spec I can imagine. That's what I liked about DAI, they left healing to consumables and balanced the game that way... sorta/mostly. The principle is sound though and I prefer that direction. We have limited slots for abilities and Healing spells just seem like a waste. An un-fun waste. For me at least, it's mostly from a role play point of view. It works for characters who are more care taker, the medic, the less aggressive etc. It also adds variety in combat, rather than focusing on killing enemies, you're focusing on keeping your allies alive. I understand why they removed most of it in DAI, from a gameplay perspective, but it will be missed for sure. If they add a class that focuses on barrier support, laying down protective glyphs, creating protective spheres etc, that I could get behind.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Sept 20, 2017 23:19:25 GMT
Seems like DAI just replaced spamming healing in difficult fights with spaming barrier and guard. I didn't think it was more fun.
Regardless of whether they give us healing back (though it would be weird lore wise if if none of the characters can heal again, even if theres no spec for it you expect there would be a basic heal spell they could learn) i'd want them to bring back our ability slots. Squiging down to 8 was no fun, especially with occasional use focus abilities taking up space.
Since I've wandered on to the subject- Should specs in the future have focus abilities again?
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 20, 2017 23:27:33 GMT
If they have focus abilities again, or if they don't, the need to change this bullshit about limiting us to the six abilities on the quick select. Give me access to all of my abilities through the combat wheel, goddamnit.
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 20, 2017 23:59:04 GMT
Game balancing essentially. Although I admit I'm surprised to hear that there are people who want a Healer spec in a game that isn't an MMO. I get that people have different tastes, but Healers are about the most boring spec I can imagine. That's what I liked about DAI, they left healing to consumables and balanced the game that way... sorta/mostly. The principle is sound though and I prefer that direction. We have limited slots for abilities and Healing spells just seem like a waste. An un-fun waste. I think healing magic should come back as a regular class like we had in past games. Or at least give us a companion that has that as a specialization. I just find it difficult to imagine that suddenly healing magic is not available anymore. I mean, supposedly it is, because we hear people talk about it throughout the game, but for some reason our character and companions don't know how to use it when in the past anyone could heal their allies. I don't buy the "we removed it because we wanted to make the game more challenging" excuse because there are other ways to make the game challenging without removing important spells and classes. For instances, they could (and should) make enemy mages a lot more scarier. Instead, they turned them into these weirdos with flying books that spam fire and ice mines, which is the one spell you can easily avoid. Removing spells/classes and limiting ability slots is not fun or challenging to me, it's just boring (because then we have less abilities to choose from so we always rely on the same ones over and over again, there's no diversity) and annoying (because then you're stuck with only 8 abilities to use while wasting others). But well, that's just my opinion. Maybe it's not a popular one. Haha The original intent in removing healing spells was so that combat became more about attrition over time. With healing spells, combat has to outpace your ability to spam healing, and since you could double-down on both spell and potion healing, it was a balance challenge. And if the fight doesn't kill you, you're back at full health moments after it's over. And you have someone who is a healer spec, the game has to be designed to accommodate that extra healing. Is the game too easy with healer? Too hard without one? What if you don't like the healer character (eg. Anders) and just don't want him in your party? See, these are reasons why I thought moving healing over to consumables-only is a good idea. At least a step in the right direction. Just create some lore reason why you don't have access to healing spells. I don't see any reason why double-down on healing (spells & potions) is a good idea. I think there are better avenues for ability variety than healing spells. I'd like to see the game balanced around healing consumables and introduce core mechanics to block/avoid damage for all classes (instead of barrier spam). I personally like having as much flexibility as possible building parties, and don't want to be dependent on a single character or class. If I want to roll with 4 rogues because they are interesting people and I want to hear their banter, I'd prefer the game be flexible enough to accommodate that.
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Hrungr
More coffee...? More coffee.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 21, 2017 0:10:19 GMT
Seems like DAI just replaced spamming healing in difficult fights with spaming barrier and guard. I didn't think it was more fun. Regardless of whether they give us healing back (though it would be weird lore wise if if none of the characters can heal again, even if theres no spec for it you expect there would be a basic heal spell they could learn) i'd want them to bring back our ability slots. Squiging down to 8 was no fun, especially with occasional use focus abilities taking up space. Since I've wandered on to the subject- Should specs in the future have focus abilities again? While Barrier & Guard felt a little more proactive (and honestly, just being a little different from generic healing helped), I agree Barrier spam in particular wasn't that much fun. I kinda liked guard though, especially the guard-on-hit mastercrafts. As I mentioned in my previous post, having core abilities to block/evade damage and healing left to consumables would be my preference. There's just more party flexibility overall that way. I liked the Focus/Nova abilities, and would certainly like to see them come back in some fashion. I'd like to see them somewhat quicker to build up so you can use them more often, even if it requires tweaking their power to accommodate.
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luketrevelyan
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,388 Likes: 4,555
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luketrevelyan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 21, 2017 1:30:15 GMT
Pretty much every fantasy RPG in existence, including their own past games, have healing spells. It shouldn't be that hard to figure out balance.
I've never liked using healing potions in games. It has always been something I deal with at the start and then by the time I can use healing spells I rarely use the potions. I just don't find them enjoyable.
Barrier could be fine if we also had healing magic. One is preventative magic while the otger is restorative magic. Having both would enable a greater variety of playstyles. With only barrier, we are railroaded into that playstyle.
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