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Post by thats1evildude on Sept 24, 2017 20:13:53 GMT
I don't want to be shoe-horned into working for the Inquisition. I hate the Inquisition. I have no special insight into the next Dragon Age game, but I would suspect it involves at least allying with the Inquisition.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 24, 2017 20:19:47 GMT
I don't want to be shoe-horned into working for the Inquisition. I hate the Inquisition. I don't want to work for them either, eactly. I want to be a slave so I can be the leader of a slave rebellion. And only when I've become uber awesome like that does the Inquisition ask for my help. Unlikely it'll happen. Especially if what David Gaider said is true and DA4 is basically 2nd part of Inquisition. Even if they modify the story in order to accommodate for that change, I find it extremely unlikely that if they stuck to their original plan, we'd have a protagonist swap and pushing Inquisition to the margin in the middle of the 3rd game. And considering where Trespasser leaves Inquisitor, it's quite unlikely for Inquisition/Inquisitor to not be the mover of the events, even if DA4 will circle around DA4 PC's story or whereabouts.
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Post by thats1evildude on Sept 24, 2017 21:28:45 GMT
I wouldn't be shocked if the PC starts out completely independent of the Inquisition, but gets pulled into the conflict with Solas.
(Assuming, of course, the next Dragon Age game isn't a complete abandonment of the Solas storyline. Dragon Age Kart Racing, for example.)
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 24, 2017 21:33:38 GMT
I'm not doubting that the Inquisition will be involved in the story. I'm just kind of hoping that the DA4 protagonist has the option to tell the Inquisition - through whoever is there representing it - to fuck off. Like I really wish the Inquisitor could have done.
At the very least if we have no choice but to be nominally part of the Inquisition then I'd want to be able to use their resources to work at cross purposes and push our own agenda and not be bound by what the Inquisition supports and represents. I've already suffered through one game where as the nominal head of that organization I had no control or agency to assert my own will on anything. I don't want to be demoted to finger puppet of this gelatinous, pro-establishment mass that Bioware created.
I just want to sail around on my boat having adventures and killing Solas' guys.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 24, 2017 21:38:27 GMT
I wouldn't be shocked if the PC starts out completely independent of the Inquisition, but gets pulled into the conflict with Solas. (Assuming, of course, the next Dragon Age game isn't a complete abandonment of the Solas storyline. Dragon Age Kart Racing, for example.) Dragon Age Nug Herding.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 24, 2017 21:46:26 GMT
I'm not doubting that the Inquisition will be involved in the story. I'm just kind of hoping that the DA4 protagonist has the option to tell the Inquisition - through whoever is there representing it - to fuck off. Like I really wish the Inquisitor could have done. At the very least if we have no choice but to be nominally part of the Inquisition then I'd want to be able to use their resources to work at cross purposes and push our own agenda and not be bound by what the Inquisition supports and represents. I've already suffered through one game where as the nominal head of that organization I had no control or agency to assert my own will on anything. I don't want to be demoted to finger puppet of this gelatinous, pro-establishment mass that Bioware created. I just want to sail around on my boat having adventures and killing Solas' guys. If you want just abandon main storyline, then go play TES games. In games which relies on bigger and more consistent storyline, such thing just won't fly. Some things will just be out of our control - just like we couldn't tell no to not being Inquisitor (if we did, we know for sure that the world would have ended), we couldn't have told Duncan to f- off when he came to recruit PC or we couldn't have told no to expedition to Deep Roads in DA2 among many other things. Also, 'huh...' at viewing Inquisition as pro-establishment.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 24, 2017 22:01:17 GMT
If we are playing in multiple locations around the Nocen Sea and beyond then a ship would make most sense as a base that actually moves around with you. However, if we are predominately in, say, Minrathous then probably some underworld base of operations would work well.
As for the relationship of the PC to the "shadow" Inquisition, I've long wondered if the Inquisitor would play a role similar to TIM in ME2, so you are provided with resources and given leads concerning the plot and possible allies and whilst you are forced into working with someone you may not like, there is a valid reason (saving the world?) for continuing to do so. Then at the end you can either agree with the boss about how you resolve matters or tell them where to go and do your own thing.
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Post by thats1evildude on Sept 24, 2017 22:17:56 GMT
I wouldn't be shocked if the PC starts out completely independent of the Inquisition, but gets pulled into the conflict with Solas. (Assuming, of course, the next Dragon Age game isn't a complete abandonment of the Solas storyline. Dragon Age Kart Racing, for example.) Dragon Age Nug Herding. Nug Elope! Once a joke, now a reality.
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formerfiend
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 24, 2017 22:20:34 GMT
I'm not doubting that the Inquisition will be involved in the story. I'm just kind of hoping that the DA4 protagonist has the option to tell the Inquisition - through whoever is there representing it - to fuck off. Like I really wish the Inquisitor could have done. At the very least if we have no choice but to be nominally part of the Inquisition then I'd want to be able to use their resources to work at cross purposes and push our own agenda and not be bound by what the Inquisition supports and represents. I've already suffered through one game where as the nominal head of that organization I had no control or agency to assert my own will on anything. I don't want to be demoted to finger puppet of this gelatinous, pro-establishment mass that Bioware created. I just want to sail around on my boat having adventures and killing Solas' guys. If you want just abandon main storyline, then go play TES games. In games which relies on bigger and more consistent storyline, such thing just won't fly. Some things will just be out of our control - just like we couldn't tell no to not being Inquisitor (if we did, we know for sure that the world would have ended), we couldn't have told Duncan to f- off when he came to recruit PC or we couldn't have told no to expedition to Deep Roads in DA2 among many other things. Also, 'huh...' at viewing Inquisition as pro-establishment. Oh, trust me, I will. Assuming Bethesda actually releases another one before the nukes drop and we all die. My level of anticipation for Elder Scrolls VI far and away outstrips my anticipation for Dragon Age IV. At this point I genuinely can't imagine anything Bethesda could do to make me not pre-order TES6 as soon as a teaser drops, where as I'm already committed to not pre-ordering DA4 and have a very solid idea of several things Bioware could do to make me skip it all together. And Inquisition is a massively pro-establishment game. We are constantly told about the importance of the existing power structure; how the chantry needs to exist - with varying degrees of reform - despite all the horrible shit it does because it binds the various nations together. How Orlais cannot be allowed to fall because the instability caused from it's collapse would be so disastrous; on top of that we're told repeatedly how unimportant who sits on the throne actually is to the people so long as the war has stopped. The majority of our companions and advisors are for maintaining the status quo - even the rebellious Sera dismisses the idea of massive social upheaval because that just creates a new "top" that punches down, and Iron Bull, despite being an agent of a hostile government that would overthrow all the current social structure of the south, is massively apprehensive about it and thinks that things should remain the way they are for the foreseeable future. Among the companions who aren't pro-establishment you've got Cole and Blackwall who're simply smaller-picture guys who want to do good. Dorian is the only companion who openly endorses getting rid of the chantry all together and while the Inquisitor can personally agree with him, there's no option to actually make that happen; sure, the negative approval epilogues for Divine Victoria imply the Chantry's in for some rough times ahead but anyone who believes Bioware's actually going to run with those is delusional, and more importantly, there's always a Divine Victoria; there's no way we can leave that spot vacant. And yes, Leliana as Divine Victoria imposes wide spread, radical change in the Chantry but that's less an endorsement of sweeping social change and more Leliana's creator pet status giving her that power. And in the end, after the Chantry and Orlais have gotten their shit together, the Inquisition is presented with an ultimatum; either submit and become a tool for the establishment or disband all together. The only instance where we do get to have a major impact on the status quo is with the Wardens by telling them to gtfo of Orlais which 1; will be instantly undone if another blight happens and 2; is more a part of Bioware's war against the Wardens than anything. The only companion in favor of true, massive social change is Solas and he's the secretly the villain who, however much they want us to sympathize with, we're ultimatley supposed to disagree with. Especially given that his plan is almost identical to Corypheus', and the entire game - largely through Solas - hammers home how terrible and futile Corypheus' plan is. All three of Corypheus' lieutenants are motivated by social reform - selfishly for the Grand Dutches but genuinely for Samson and Calpernia. Hell, one of the main enemy factions - the Freemen - are motivated entirely by deciding which noble's ass sits on the Throne isn't worth them dying for and they are far and away the least sympathetic major group of enemies in the game; both the Venatori and the Red Templars are given some degree of sympathy, while the Freemen are depicted as cowardly deserters and psychopathic soldiers while the true, decent, honorable and honest soldiers are the ones who remain dedicated to the cause of fighting for the right for some rich asshole to rule them all.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 24, 2017 22:38:37 GMT
I hope we get another one in DA4.
I also hope its kind of like the treehouses in Kids Next Door, if anyone remembers that show. There, every one of the main characters rooms were made to fit their personality. The tough's kid's room was basically a boxing arena, the smart's kid's room was a tech room/hanger, the girly girl's room was filled with stuff animals, etc. It was kind of obvious and stereotypical but at least it visually showed the character's personalities and interests. In DAI, only Sera, and I guess Cullen, Blackwall, and Solas had their own habitats/rooms, everyone else was just around somewhere.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 24, 2017 22:47:21 GMT
I hope we get another one in DA4. I also hope its kind of like the treehouses in Kids Next Door, if anyone remembers that show. There, every one of the main characters rooms were made to fit their personality. The tough's kid's room was basically a boxing arena, the smart's kid's room was a tech room/hanger, the girly girl's room was filled with stuff animals, etc. It was kind of obvious and stereotypical but at least it visually showed the character's personalities and interests. In DAI, only Sera, and I guess Cullen, Blackwall, and Solas had their own habitats/rooms, everyone else was just around somewhere. Yeah, I was never entirely clear on where exactly Dorian, Cassandra, or Varric actually slept.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 24, 2017 22:55:53 GMT
If you want just abandon main storyline, then go play TES games. In games which relies on bigger and more consistent storyline, such thing just won't fly. Some things will just be out of our control - just like we couldn't tell no to not being Inquisitor (if we did, we know for sure that the world would have ended), we couldn't have told Duncan to f- off when he came to recruit PC or we couldn't have told no to expedition to Deep Roads in DA2 among many other things. Also, 'huh...' at viewing Inquisition as pro-establishment. stuff Doesn't this conveniently forget that the Templars, in certain scenarios, can essentially no longer exist, that mages are able to create their own organization outside of the Chantry, that an elf can be secretly running Orlais, and Inquisition can say fuck the Chantry and exist as a shadow group trying to stop Solas. Also, Leliana may be an author's pet but her reforms are still pretty revolutionary and transformative. The fact that you can't utterly destroy the Chantry and put an end to feudalism is largely a result of the Inquisitor not being a God capable of removing centuries long social institutions in the span of a couple years, though like I said the templars at least can be gone. Also, Samson and Calpernia are hardly reformist. Both want an ancient magister to rule the world in the hopes he might be nicer to templars and slaves, which wouldn't change the fact they'd still be under the fascist domination of another all-powerful asshole. It'd be like trading communism for fascism. Different boss, but the same totalitarian nightmare.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 24, 2017 22:57:33 GMT
I hope we get another one in DA4. I also hope its kind of like the treehouses in Kids Next Door, if anyone remembers that show. There, every one of the main characters rooms were made to fit their personality. The tough's kid's room was basically a boxing arena, the smart's kid's room was a tech room/hanger, the girly girl's room was filled with stuff animals, etc. It was kind of obvious and stereotypical but at least it visually showed the character's personalities and interests. In DAI, only Sera, and I guess Cullen, Blackwall, and Solas had their own habitats/rooms, everyone else was just around somewhere. Yeah, I was never entirely clear on where exactly Dorian, Cassandra, or Varric actually slept. Wasted opportunity if you ask me. Varric having a room with half finished manuscripts would be neat.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 24, 2017 23:15:02 GMT
If you want just abandon main storyline, then go play TES games. In games which relies on bigger and more consistent storyline, such thing just won't fly. Some things will just be out of our control - just like we couldn't tell no to not being Inquisitor (if we did, we know for sure that the world would have ended), we couldn't have told Duncan to f- off when he came to recruit PC or we couldn't have told no to expedition to Deep Roads in DA2 among many other things. Also, 'huh...' at viewing Inquisition as pro-establishment. Oh, trust me, I will. Assuming Bethesda actually releases another one before the nukes drop and we all die. My level of anticipation for Elder Scrolls VI far and away outstrips my anticipation for Dragon Age IV. At this point I genuinely can't imagine anything Bethesda could do to make me not pre-order TES6 as soon as a teaser drops, where as I'm already committed to not pre-ordering DA4 and have a very solid idea of several things Bioware could do to make me skip it all together. I actually picked DA in the midst of waiting for another TES game. But I like both franchises for what they are enough to probably pre-order both, regardless of my personal verdict on them. And since we're getting into serious OT territory...: Yes, a 'massively pro-establishment game' that constantly underlines how we are basically ramming through establishment and making 'minor decisions' like being able to pick leader of the Empire or Divine who, depending on some other choices and configurations, leads to changes that can ultimately upend political landscape as it is. Nevermind the suggestive titles our Inquisitor can gain along the way - herald of change, harbinger of new age, First-Thaw - "when ice breaks and new spring comes to give life to the world'. These sound totally like titles for a character that is there to maintain status quo Dunno, you seem to deem Inquisition as 'pro-establishment' just because doesn't let some institutions crash and burn, seemingly with no regard how it could end in the wold that needs a bit of stability to push back the very real threat of end of the world. Apparently any change that to isn't to your liking and near instant is 'pro-establishment'... We are told so from perspective of different characters who have different opinions on the matter and who aren't necessarily shown to be in the right. Companions being complicated and having complex feelings on te matter instead of being a bunch of one-sided rebels ready to completely overthrow known order? Good, that's what I'm playing those games for. Hmmm... you've just said that anyone expecting rough times for Chantry would be delusional, only to acknowledge rough times for the Chantry with all radical changes Leliana can serve them, only to dismiss that as 'pet status giving her that power', instead of Bioware doing exactly what you said won't do. I'm not demanding from you to like BW's story or DA story or even specific DA games story... but all that bending over backwards to dismiss what they're doing at every turn is just unnecessary. Good. I like it. I like it that Bioware tells stories in which they can tell us 'yes folks, we may have fantastically good intentions an all, but the world is more complicated than this'. Of course, it's good to keep in mind that the story ain't done yet - potentially not even the story of Inquisition which, I'd like to point out, didn't really do anything anyone wanted and instead shut the Council by making a decision entirely on their own, only to leave to immediately plan how to save the world... again. Are we? We're supposed to disagree with him... for now. We don't know the details of his plans or how the story will go yet. But I'd also like to point out that DAI makes repeated, subtle hints that Solas is grooming Inquisitor to be his successor.
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 24, 2017 23:21:34 GMT
Doesn't this conveniently forget that the Templars, in certain scenarios, can essentially no longer exist, that mages are able to create their own organization outside of the Chantry, that an elf can be secretly running Orlais, and Inquisition can say fuck the Chantry and exist as a shadow group trying to stop Solas. Also, Leliana may be an author's pet but her reforms are still pretty revolutionary and transformative. The fact that you can't utterly destroy the Chantry and put an end to feudalism is largely a result of the Inquisitor not being a God capable of removing centuries long social institutions in the span of a couple years, though like I said the templars at least can be gone. Also, Samson and Calpernia are hardly reformist. Both want an ancient magister to rule the world in the hopes he might be nicer to templars and slaves, which wouldn't change the fact they'd still be under the fascist domination of another all-powerful asshole. It'd be like trading communism for fascism. Different boss, but the same totalitarian nightmare. Nope. The Templar thing is more an unforseen consequence than a deliberate act to change the status quo. The mage thing is also largely the result of Leliana's creator's pet status, or otherwise a point about history repeating itself. And that elf is and always was part of the establishment; she was Celene's spymaster. She isn't an outsider. She may have a progressive, pro-elf agenda, but she's still establishment. On top of that several characters denounce her as the least trust worthy, most duplicitous option to back in that scenario - Cullen, Josephine, and Sera all condemn her; and if nothing else we're supposed to take Cullen & Josephine as sympathetic and reasonable voices. And I'm not necessarily advocating that we should have had the option to order Inquisition forces to march into every city in Southern Thedas to burn their Chantrys to the ground (although now that I think about it...) but we're told that by inaction - by not endorsing a new divine, we could allow the Chantry to fracture and fall apart on it's own. Yet we can't do that; one way or another, Cassandra, Leliana, or Vivienne will be elected Divine. One could argue the fact that Leliana, being the most reformist of the lot of them, being the hardest to get elected could be the game saying that she's the best option and thus requires the most effort, but the fact that there is no War Table mission to support Leliana while there are missions to support both Cassandra and Vivienne shows that the Inquisition itself is a more conservative, establishment organization that's unwilling to openly push for the kind of change that Leliana wants. And that point more reinforces my point. It frames people who are willing to take drastic, radical action to implement the kind of change they want - freeing the Templars from addiction-enforced servitude for Samson and purging Tevinter of it's corruption and starting a wide spread abolitionist movement for Calpernia - as foolish, deluded, and in no uncertain terms doing more harm than good. If the only way to push for this radical change is to back a would be god king bent on world domination at the potential risk of global destruction, then the alternative of incremental, slow, gradual change from the inside - the kind that the establishment pushes to lull the populous and maintain it's own power - suddenly looks a lot more appealing.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 24, 2017 23:23:57 GMT
Yeah, I was never entirely clear on where exactly Dorian, Cassandra, or Varric actually slept. Wasted opportunity if you ask me. Varric having a room with half finished manuscripts would be neat. From what I heard, the devs see Skyhold as bigger than it is shown, with additional rooms and so on that we don't have access too in game. You can't forget that they've had to tailor Shyhold so it would actually work, even on old-gen consoles. Even the tunnel we cross to reach the war table is designed in order to help hardware clear memory and load other bits of the castle. So question remains how will our humble abode in DA4 look like, just like how city chunks would look like now that they're designing the game for more powerful hardware, as well as probably learning some more tricks and improved software that would help them design lived-on, big spaces.
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Post by hero11n7 on Sept 24, 2017 23:28:35 GMT
How about we not turn my thread into a political debate? That sound good to you guys?
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 24, 2017 23:35:18 GMT
How about we not turn my thread into a political debate? That sound good to you guys? It's fine by me. I just want a nice, Inquisition-free boat as my home base in DA4.
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Post by ComedicSociopathy on Sept 24, 2017 23:37:31 GMT
How about we not turn my thread into a political debate? That sound good to you guys? Am fine with that. For me, I can't even really picture what Skyhold 2.0 should even look like until we get a basic understanding of what DA4's plot is going to be. Are we going to be spending most of the game as an established military force dealing with the Tevinter-Qunari? Or are we going to a clandestine shadow group trying to deal with Solas' and his shenanigans? Either would probably need a different kind of base to fit with that kind of story.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 24, 2017 23:45:49 GMT
For me, I can't even really picture what Skyhold 2.0 should even look like until we get a basic understanding of what DA4's plot is going to be. Are we going to be spending most of the game as an established military force dealing with the Tevinter-Qunari? Or are we going to a clandestine shadow group trying to deal with Solas' and his shenanigans? Either would probably need a different kind of base to fit with that kind of story. IMO we're heading into clandestine shadow group, regardless whether we disband Inquisition or not. But perhaps we could still determine our base of operations depending on who we ally with or what decisions we make. That would probably mean that our base won't be very big, but perhaps that could also mean more variety to them? I could also probably bet on the possibility that we may have a base to which we're led to by a small, secret network of eluvians. Oooh... how about a forgotten section of Crossroads? If it turns out that Crossroads can be affected or modified by magic/will, it could mean that it could be modified to hell and back
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Post by shaqfu on Sept 25, 2017 0:41:18 GMT
I think it'd be cool to get something within the crossroads as well.
If not and they give cities a big overhaul maybe give us a district to run/upgrade. Npcs could also wander about and have more unique places to hang about.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 0:45:22 GMT
^ Dorian did say something about developing his own eluvians, in Trespasser, now that they had the breakdowns/plans of them from the Qunari. Though this means that not only does Solas have whats left of the elven network, but the Qunari could have started their own network, too.
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formerfiend
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Post by formerfiend on Sept 25, 2017 0:52:18 GMT
I'm not on board with a crossroads base. Lends itself to a degree of escalation I wouldn't particularly be interested in.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2017 2:25:34 GMT
I would like to be able to talk to the folks in my party out in the world, with the small campfire/hideout like in DA1, and an option for those interested in strongholds to purchase and decorate them like in SWTOR, where everyone gets the ship, but strongholds are all optional.
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rapscallioness
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
Posts: 731 Likes: 1,531
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rapscallioness
731
August 2016
rapscallioness
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire
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Post by rapscallioness on Sept 25, 2017 4:34:38 GMT
Skyhold was beautiful and all, but I want something more intimate this time. Cozier. I'm a fan of the mobile base idea.
And the addition of little things like when you walk in one room there are two companions sitting there playing cards and talking smack. Another one fixing their weaponry. Someone cooking something. Another one in the corner drinking and smoking a pipe, reading. Doing stuff. And then it switches out.
I would like times when the whole group sits down at a table together, eats and talks about what has happened and how to go forward--like an old jrpg I played called Grandia. The scenes were nothing fancy, just looped animations with different dialogue layered on top, but I still remember it. lol.
If it is a ship, I would like to have an initial enter the new city port cinematic. Then just fast travel to the ports needed. But importantly, even after we fast travel, I can still stay on the ship top and enjoy the view of the city/port in front of me until i decide to enter the city, or area. I would like to be able to just lean on the railings when I want and eyeball the goings on.
A ship and a secret back room kind of lair for when we may need to go further inland for awhile would be cool.And definitely let me talk to my people around the fire. What do they call it? A staged shot, or something like that? Yeah, that's fine.
And in the name of all that's holy, stop the companions from running around behind me like friggin sugared up morons. Trying to get into some perfect equal distance from each other. All the time. It makes me nervous.
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