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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 13, 2019 19:04:57 GMT
Roaming around YT and came across this. I miss all the old Star Trek series. I got the remastered TOS and TNG. I'm hoping Voyager would be remastered too. Definitely well made! Though I will say that I think some parts looked better in the original (like the blue to green nebula at 0:32. Some of the lighting didn't quite seem right either. But in general, it's beautiful.
As for the old series, I am holding out hope that the coming Picard series may be a little more in the old TNG spirit ... maybe. Make it so!
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Feb 14, 2019 1:37:27 GMT
As for the old series, I am holding out hope that the coming Picard series may be a little more in the old TNG spirit ... maybe. Make it so! I've no interest in that unfortunately, much as I like Picard. I've no interest in any "ST" handled by CBS.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 15, 2019 7:48:29 GMT
A little late, but did anyone else think Pike was wrong in Ep 2?; I hated that his insistence that they were not allowed to reveal themselves to the humans on the planet, all because they left Earth ten years before Cochrane launched the Phoenix, meaning they technically fell under the definitely of a pre-Warp society? I feel like his interpretation of the PD followed the letter of the law, rather than the spirit of it. Sure, they had formed their own unique culture and he didn't want to interfere with their "natural development", but the problem with that argument is that there is nothing "natural" about their circumstances. Their ancestors were rescued/abducted from Earth by an angel/alien, meaning that their natural development had already been interfered with. The colonists also know that they are no longer on Earth and have been transported to another planet. Even though they came from before humans made first contact with other intelligent life in the universe, isn't the cat already long out of the bag? It doesn't matter that they believe it to be an angel, they know that some other form of life exists besides humans. Then you have the distress signal to consider. Even if it it was too weak to travel far, it's purpose was to call for rescue... something that Pike refuses to do, never considering that perhaps like that one guy, some of the colonists may have wanted to be rescued upon learning that humanity wasn't wiped out. Seriously, what would have been the harm in telling them the truth? It might be a relief for them to learn that humanity survived extinction and our own self-destructive tendencies, before transitioning into a enlightened society that now seeks to live in peace with the rest of the galaxy. Pike could have assured them that if they didn't want to go back to Earth he would not force them, nor was it his intention to interfere with their beliefs or society. Would it have even constituted as "interference" if he'd at least offered them some basic humanitarian aid? I doubt they have internal plumbing and likely have to draw their water from wells, so why not offer them purification tablets or filters? At least give them some medical supplies, because death from disease or infection would be very real threats to them. (Offering to provide the colonists with a quick medical check-up or scan might have been a smart move too. Having started with such a small gene pool, they might already be suffering from health problems from two centuries of inbreeding.) Even if I question Pike's decision, it's episodes like this that make me really hate how Trek insists on applying the Prime Directive. Far too often it's used as a crutch for moral cowardice or as an excuse for not having to bother saving people. Oh, but when their landing parties are on a planet about to be hit by deadly radiation and are in danger of dying too, suddenly they seem able to get off their arses and do something to stop it. Funny that.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 23, 2019 6:57:22 GMT
So is "The Search For Spock" the theme for S2? Cause fans have been seriously Spock-blocked for the last few episodes.
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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Feb 27, 2019 12:28:25 GMT
So is "The Search For Spock" the theme for S2? Cause fans have been seriously Spock-blocked for the last few episodes. Exactly my thoughts! He's finally appearing in the trailer for the new episode which is due on Friday (or Thursday, depends where you're located). I'm quite curious already but I remain skeptical. Spock is just too big of a deal to mess around with.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 27, 2019 18:57:17 GMT
So is "The Search For Spock" the theme for S2? Cause fans have been seriously Spock-blocked for the last few episodes. Exactly my thoughts! He's finally appearing in the trailer for the new episode which is due on Friday (or Thursday, depends where you're located). I'm quite curious already but I remain skeptical. Spock is just too big of a deal to mess around with. I'm excited to see Spock and how they handled him. I hope though that the fandom doesn't go mental if he does display more emotion that we're used to, as Spock (and many other Vulcans) have shown a variety of different emotional levels over the course of the franchise. In early episodes of TOS, he showed far more emotion than he would later on. By the Motion Picture, he was so emotionally withdrawn after attempting the Kolinahr, that even his friends and shipmates seemed to find the change in personality slightly unnerving. From Wrath of Khan onwards, through his appearances in TNG and finally the Kelvin timeline, Spock had slowly mellowed into a cool old guy, who seemed far more comfortable in letting the odd bit of emotion show every now and again. It's not a great episode, but "Gravity" from Voyager also showed that Vulcans sometimes can buckle under the weight of repressing their emotions, as happened to Tuvok in his youth when the object of his affection did not return his feelings. His rampant jealousy caused him to be expelled from school and sent to a Vulcan master, in order to learn how to regain emotional control over himself. I feel like I have to mention that because, well... if the Youtube reviewers are any indication, any perceived fault with Discovery is fair game to tear the show apart. I swear, half of them seem more like they're only hate-watching the show at this point, given the amount of vitriol thrown at it every week.
I'm not going to say that Discovery is a great Trek series, but it has been slowly getting better and to say that S2 hasn't been a marked improvement over S1, seems extremely disingenuous. I'd prefer they switch to being an ensemble show, rather than focus on Michael primarily, but they have been slowly rounding out the rest of the background cast more this season, so that's a nice step in that direction.
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Post by officerdonnz on Feb 28, 2019 3:41:02 GMT
If you watch the original Star Trek pilot, The Cage with Christopher Pike as captain of the Enterprise instead of Kirk you'll see a really emotional Spock in that. He even smiles at one point. It's well worth a watch regardless.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 28, 2019 4:15:34 GMT
If you watch the original Star Trek pilot, The Cage with Christopher Pike as captain of the Enterprise instead of Kirk you'll see a really emotional Spock in that. He even smiles at one point. It's well worth a watch regardless. Yeah, part of me hopes the Discovery writers will use this golden opportunity to retcon and explain Spock's emotional displays in the Cage and early episodes, turning some early-installment weirdness into an actual plotpoint.
Maybe whatever happened with the Red Angel ended up affecting him so much that his ability to suppress emotion was compromised, causing him to spend the next decade trying to build those walls back up again?
I doubt they'll actually do this though. Either way, I won't mind if they do make Spock appear more emotional in Discovery, as he's meant to be younger than the Spock we're all familiar with. People change and mature as they get older, even Vulcans.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 2, 2019 7:11:56 GMT
Wow! I just watched the first two episodes of Discovery Season 2 and so far, I am really impressed. This almost feels like old ST again. They really did a great job on improving the aspects of the show that I didn't like in season 1. Everything has calmed down a little, the plot is about exploration and mystery more than it is about war and action. Most importantly, the characters get to have some more meaningful and insightful dialogue. I also really like Captain Pike as the new CO. If they keep this level of quality up, I think this season might turn out to be that best Star Trek incarnation since the 90s. Looking forward to checking out the rest of the available episodes over the weekend.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Mar 4, 2019 1:06:59 GMT
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Post by Sifr on Mar 7, 2019 15:06:41 GMT
Following Episode 7; How does everyone else feel about the reveal that Spock had the Vulcan equivalent of dyslexia as a child? It seems to be a bit polarising in the fandom from what I can gather. I don't mind it, because I think it adds another layer to Spock's character and fits with the long-established detail that he struggled to fit in as a child among his peers.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 9, 2019 9:04:38 GMT
So it is really hard to keep up and not be spoiled with things given certain factors but I really fell behind ST Disc...about 5 episodes it would seem. Well I finally got the chance to nearly get caught up on the show except for the episode that aired this week Overall it seems to have lost some of its momentum from earlier in the season and there are a few minor niggles that I am having here and there...so I guess I'll start with those. Its kind of weird where my lore senses do and do not trigger to the point that is just kind of bizarre. Most of the stuff with Discovery just does not bother me and I tend to view it as a concession to modern storytelling and special effects technicues. I mean I guess the holograms bothered me at first... but I got over it. Anyways it has always been a part of Star Trek technological lore that you cannot beam through shields. Not unless you are really close or go through a lot of technobabble leg work. Now this has not always made sense to me as a practical matter, in fact I always appreciated how you could beam through shields (usually) in the Stargate franchise but Trek that's sacrosanct. Yet multiple times in the last few eps they have beamed through shields or when the shields should've been up without batting an eye. Point two the episode where Saru goes home and he kind of goes all muhahaha and agressive at first could've been a great conversation about nature vs. nurture, but instead Saru got his instincts under control way too quickly. I mean I feel like this is so they can just brush it under the rug...but they almost never brush things under the rug on this show. Oh and Hugh is back, I mean that made a bit of sense to me how they set it up, but it also felt cheap...but then again it seems like they are doing something with his resurection.
Otherwise these episodes are pretty solid. I am still really loving Pike and I kind of love how this show pokes fun at the more technobabbly aspects of it. The plot line with the Red Angel is still really fascinating, now that we know there is a time travel component to this whole stuff. And the theme of this series just seems to be...death.
Anyways I knew it was coming but I still got chills especially seeing the previews. They are going back to Talos IV, to fix Spock. Spock would know that the Talosians can fix them.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 10, 2019 14:24:44 GMT
Following Ep 8; With the reveal that the Red Angel is a time traveller trying to prevent a (Reaper invasion?) Bad Future, can we finally chalk up any canon discrepancies as being a result of the RA's interference on the timeline?
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Mar 11, 2019 3:50:29 GMT
Following Ep 8; With the reveal that the Red Angel is a time traveller trying to prevent a (Reaper invasion?) Bad Future, can we finally chalk up any canon discrepancies as being a result of the RA's interference on the timeline? Yeah, that's my guess.
It seems likely to me that we never heard about Michael in the original timeline because in that version of history the angel didn't intervene and she died.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 11, 2019 10:29:05 GMT
Following Ep 8; With the reveal that the Red Angel is a time traveller trying to prevent a (Reaper invasion?) Bad Future, can we finally chalk up any canon discrepancies as being a result of the RA's interference on the timeline? Yeah, that's my guess.
It seems likely to me that we never heard about Michael in the original timeline because in that version of history the angel didn't intervene and she died.
That was my take away from it too.
Burnham perished as a child in the Prime Timeline we're familiar with, so Discovery actually takes place in a version of the Prime Timeline where she lived. Things have changed, but not so radically enough that you might consider this an entirely alternate reality like the Kevlin Timeline. It's more like when other characters (looking at you, Janeway) proceed to muck with time to save someone or change certain events?
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Post by colfoley on Mar 12, 2019 5:01:24 GMT
So caught up with Discovery: It was nice at first having a bit of foreknowledge over my wife which had no real idea what was going on with the opening. Or the Black Hole, which was a rather neat effect.
Anyways this episode was pretty ok overall but it got really good at the end of it. What's her face telling Pike to let her go was weird and when you get down to it and the telegraping in this show combined with them blaming tyler for this is a bit...weird and heavy handed. The stuff between Saru/ Tyler/ and Culbert was great. And the ending, the idea that Discovery is on the run from the rest of Starfleet is a great idea....
But it seems unfortunate that it could easily end as early as next week given they are going after Section 31 and Cornwall is on the Bridge...and she is a starfleet Admiral...who seems to have liked Section 31 in the past, or at least tolerate them.
Speaking of Ariam real fast while the fact that 'she' is clearly corrupted but its become a lot more muddied as to by what is pulling the strings. The episode where she was, it would seem to be the Red Angel or some other future faction but that does fly in the face of the RAs seeming benign objectives...so far. But given she is clearly transmitting Discovery's location to section 31 it would seem to be she is working for them but...how the heck does that work?
Which brings me to *that* scene, and oh boy that was some powerful stuff. Burnham going full on racist to try and break Spock's heart and simultaneously become the reason that Spock comitted himself to logic...perfection. In regards to the ongoing conversation: Usually when continuity errors come up its my default assumption that we do not hear mention of such things because not everyone talks about everything...and the mere fact is we only get these people for forty three minutes per episode. But this episode provides a good explanation for why Spock would never talk about Burnham, he hated her, the end.
But really this speaks to Star Trek and continuity as a whole...because Star Trek has always been all over the place. Watching stuff on Youtube and my own recognizance I know there is a LOT of complaining about, and actual legitimate breaks in continuity. Next Gen to TOS was almost a different show, then you have Enterprise, and the internal continuity from episode to episode was often very dubious based so it is a bit...funny to me...that people are complaining about how badly Discovery breaks continuity...for a franchise that hasn't really ever cared about internal consistency, minus Deep Space 9 and now Discovery.
If Discovery were its own thing it would be getting wild applause. I mean maybe the 'everything is PC propaganda/ Michael Burnham is a Mary Sue' crowd would still be bitching regardless but Discovery has been a pretty solid entry into Star Trek lore and its doing a lot of interesting things.
That said I am not sure season 2 is as strong as season 1.
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Post by MrR40 on Mar 16, 2019 3:17:54 GMT
They finally gave Airiam a backstory and she died... Man of Feel hit in the feels during a feelium leak.
At the end I got this Skynet/Reaper vibe from this season somehow.
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Post by phoray on Mar 17, 2019 3:27:47 GMT
Finally watching the show after watching the pilot over a month ago.
S2E2
I still don't get how not interfering with pre warp societies has ANYTHING to do with their own race being "magically" transported to another world in the galaxy involuntarily. If they'd actively left earth to seek a simpler life, it would be one thing to interrupt it. I felt bad for the black dude, I totally would have invited him aboard and he would have loved his new modern life. WE left him with a bunch of religious hippies when he was obviously a miserable misfit.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 18, 2019 2:21:17 GMT
They finally gave Airiam a backstory and she died... Man of Feel hit in the feels during a feelium leak.
At the end I got this Skynet/Reaper vibe from this season somehow. This episode makes me wish the show hadn't been written around Burnham in S1. If we'd been able to connect more with the rest of the ensemble cast, even the background characters, it'd have made the loss of Airiam far more impactful because she's been there from the start. It's not a bad episode, but the lack of build up sadly works against it. Finally watching the show after watching the pilot over a month ago. S2E2 I still don't get how not interfering with pre warp societies has ANYTHING to do with their own race being "magically" transported to another world in the galaxy involuntarily. If they'd actively left earth to seek a simpler life, it would be one thing to interrupt it. I felt bad for the black dude, I totally would have invited him aboard and he would have loved his new modern life. WE left him with a bunch of religious hippies when he was obviously a miserable misfit. It doesn't.
But as I said in my review, the Prime Directive has always been used as a pithy excuse not to save/help people.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 18, 2019 3:54:17 GMT
Finally watching the show after watching the pilot over a month ago. S2E2 I still don't get how not interfering with pre warp societies has ANYTHING to do with their own race being "magically" transported to another world in the galaxy involuntarily. If they'd actively left earth to seek a simpler life, it would be one thing to interrupt it. I felt bad for the black dude, I totally would have invited him aboard and he would have loved his new modern life. WE left him with a bunch of religious hippies when he was obviously a miserable misfit. The episode of New Eden was one of the more practical applications of the Prime Directive we have ever seen in Star Trek. Remember traditionally for Star Trek the Prime Directive has always been a bit...radical. Even instances of it where Starfleet personell could not act to save anyone on the planet and let their 'natural evolution' take place. (See Pen Pals, into Darkness). Otherwise, they can't interfere no matter what. But Saru and Pike were on site and they were the senior officers probably in the entire area, it was their call to make...and they made it without interfereing. On the issue of why they didn't take the population with them and reveal themselves...I just assumed the Discovery was too small to transport the population effectively. Either way Pike did have a point though. They were their own civilization it would've been risky revealing themselves and changing things on that sort of level.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 18, 2019 4:30:00 GMT
On the issue of why they didn't take the population with them and reveal themselves...I just assumed the Discovery was too small to transport the population effectively. Either way Pike did have a point though. They were their own civilization it would've been risky revealing themselves and changing things on that sort of level. But that ignores that they have a Spore Drive that can instantly jump between Terralysium and Earth in a matter of seconds, so even if Discovery wasn't large enough to transport however many people who wanted to go back to Earth in a single trip, would doing a couple round trips have been that much of a hassle?
I agree that they had founded their own civilisation, but would revealing Earth and the human race had survived, in addition to become a peaceful society have constituted interference? Maybe their religion would have had problems with that revelation because they believed they were "chosen" to survive WW3, but still... I don't see the truth actually being detrimental to their society, as they most definitely were saved and transported by a "higher power".
I would have told them the truth and given them the choice over how they wanted to proceed. If the people wanted to re-establish ties with Earth or even go back home again, they can. If they wanted Discovery to leave and never return, they would do so without hesitation. Pike only assumes he knows what they'd want, without actually asking them.
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Post by officerdonnz on Mar 18, 2019 22:06:44 GMT
All this talk of the Prime Directive reminds me of a Star Trek comic I read more years ago than I want to think about in it Kirk was be tried for violating the Prime Directive and there is a conversion between Kirk, Spock and McCoy that went something like this... Kirk: But I've never broken the Prime Directive. Spock: Broadly interpreted. McCoy: Bent, forgotten. Spock: But never broken. It's always stuck in my mind for some reason.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 18, 2019 23:03:39 GMT
All this talk of the Prime Directive reminds me of a Star Trek comic I read more years ago than I want to think about in it Kirk was be tried for violating the Prime Directive and there is a conversion between Kirk, Spock and McCoy that went something like this... Kirk: But I've never broken the Prime Directive. Spock: Broadly interpreted. McCoy: Bent, forgotten. Spock: But never broken. It's always stuck in my mind for some reason. That is another thing I really like about this season of ST Disc so far. Pike's sort of 'Cowboy Diplomacy' as Janeway called it when reflecting on the difference between the 23rd and 24th century. I just think that is the reason why writers keep going back in time because the 23rd is just...so much more interesting from a conflict point of view. But yes Pike is willing to throw down but also willing to actually try out diplomacy.
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Post by officerdonnz on Mar 22, 2019 17:56:33 GMT
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