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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 24, 2019 17:18:56 GMT
Does Data look less human than he used to? Probably just a cover-up for Spiner aging. If it's not a dream and he's back full time, I don't know why they haven't picked the easiest explanation?
Simply have Data explain he'd begun cosmetically altering his appearance to better reflect human aging.
While that on the surface would serve as a very plausible Data-like explanation, what if he admitted later that the real reason was that as his saw his friends getting older, he came to fear that his ageless appearance might start to make people uncomfortable or even slightly resentful?
Then you'd get the twofer of having both an in-character explanation for his aging and show his character development, that Data now experiences very "human" fears and concerns.
I like that as an explanation, though I still think they should just not bring him back for this show on a longer basis. I think it's good that they want to do something new (crew and all).
But the explanation would totally work. Data even did this already in the last episode of TNG, when they are in the alternate Q future and he is a professor at Camebridge. He added a stripe of grey to his heir to make him seem more "distinguished" as he figured that's what his office demands. His physical alterations would just look a lot more believable now.
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Post by Sifr on Jul 26, 2019 15:58:29 GMT
If not as Data, I'd enjoy seeing Brent Spiner come back as an android Noonien Soong. Maybe he could reveal that he copied his memories into an advanced model type (similar to what he did for his dead wife) to allow him to continue his work even after death?
Soong has always been one of the most fascinating characters in TNG lore for me, would be cool to see more of him (in whatever form).
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Post by AnDromedary on Sept 25, 2019 21:06:29 GMT
Finally finished watching Discovery season 2. A few points: Spoiler warning!!!First the bad stuff: - By far the worst plot element of the entire season was the time crystals. First, they don't really fit at all into the ST lore as we know it. Second, they are arguably the most central plot point but they are never explained at all, they are just space magic at its worst. Really feels like the writers had a really nice plot all laid out, they just needed that one thing to bind it all together but couldn't come up with a good idea, so in the end they were like "Fuck it, let's just use time crystals." To be fair, it's not the first time a Star Trek plot hinges on a magical plot device but I feel like this one is the worst yet. - Didn't really care much for the ending to be honest. The "it was time traveling me all along" is very generic in SciFi and the Ai's reasoning "I was programmed to protect life, so I make myself the most pure lifeform ever and kill everything else" almost seems like the writers got inspired by the ME3 ending. Also, the whole "no one can ever talk about all of this" is just one step below "it was all a dream" on the lameness scale, is it not? - Whenever the series gets into technobabble it gets bad. I used to like the old ST technobabble because it intrigued me somewhat and contrary to the popular memes and jokes that made it seem completely random, it actually wasn't, it made sense in a twisted kind if way (of course a transporter would need a Heisenberg-Compensator, come on ). But when Staments starts spewing nonsense about the spore drive or the doctor tells us about metaphysical bullshit concerning DNA in a 256 word sentence, it is a) way too much and b ) it doesn't even sound half way plausible anymore. So sorry guys but you ruined ST technobabble. - Like in Season 1, there was still too much "Starfleet pathos" especially towards the end. Even the otherwise very likable Captain Pike is not immune to this issue, throwing around dumb-ass phrases like "Remember people, we are Starfleet. We get it done!". Bah! - Some of the dialogue still feels like the characters are all psychologists, analyzing themselves or each other. - Sometimes they make really dum decisions. The weirdest example is when they come up with this idea to use Discovery's self destruct. At this point, they already know that the sphere data will not let itself be destroyed and that it can take over ship systems. The weirdest thing about this little episode is that it doesn't really add anything to the plot. You could have just not done it and it wouldn't change a thing. - Some things are not explained all that well. For example, I did struggle a little figuring out how exactly the future virus that takes hold of Control actually got there. It's shown how something effects Airiam somehow but at that point, we don't even know what kind of being Airiam actually is (this is only explained 2 episodes later, shortly before the virus really manifests). And then, it is only explained 3 episodes after the fact what actually happened when the virus came over and that's done in like two throwaway sentences. I mean, maybe I'm just too slow but I only got it all because I was binge watching. Had there been more time between the episodes, I don't think I'd have gotten it all. - They introduce a major character in the second to last episode and everyone acts like I should know who this is somehow. I first thought I had accidentally skipped an episode somewhere, until I went online and read up about this queen and found out her entire background is only explained in some online short episodes? That was a weird way to do it and is very confusing for an audience that may not keep track of all these side products. Ok, but enough ciricizing, let's get to the good stuff because there is plenty: - Despite the fact that I had some issues with the ending, the overall plotline is extremely well done IMO. The writers accomplish a number of really grewat feats with this. They tackle typical ST topics, like logic vs. faith, moral decision making, space and character exploration and personal relationships that span different cultures and they manage bring all of this together beautifully. On top of that, they give us an engaging family drama with Spock and Burnham, an edge of the seat galactic threat and one of the more intelligent and logical time travel plotlines that actually manages to avoid too many plot holes (especially given Star Treks rather dubious track record in that aria). The plot has mystery, complexity, heart and IMO captures the soul of Star Trek. Top notch. - I like how they manage to find a balance where every episode (except the last few) has their self contained story but still it all fits together in the overarching plotline. It's the perfect mix of the old Trek structure and modern TV series story telling. Good stuff. - The acting is superb. After Quinto I really doubted they could find yet another actor who can pull off a Spock but Peck does it yet again. Maybe it's not that difficult to act a half vulkan after all or - and this would be my guess - they did some great casting there. Another mention needs to go to Captain Pike. His calm and laid back natural authority is conveyed perfectly by the actor and he became my favorite character on the show very quickly. I am not surprised people are already asking for a Pike/Spock spin-off, I'd go for that. - Speaking of which, this may be a minor point but another argument for that spin-off series would be the reimagined Enterprise. I think they did a marvelous job redesigning the old bridge. You can immediately recognize it, yet it doesn't look out of place in the new visuals of this new series. Kudos to the set designers on that one. - I liked how the characters - especailly in the beginning of the season - got a little more room to breathe. I felt the pace of the first season was a little too high and I missed some smaller, calmer scenes where some of the major and also minor characters could develop a little more. Season 2 allows for that by taking down the tempo a little and putting in some interpersonal dialogue that doesn't concern the end of the world or some deep personality crisis. That definitely helps later, when the shit hits the fan and we have more reasons to root for our guys. - I like how the ending ties up pretty much all open plot points and basically sets us back up with a pretty undamaged canon Trek universe. Everyone is, where they are supposed to be and everyone who shouldn't be there is gone. In fact, this wouldn't have been the worst point to end the series. I wonder what they'll do with season 2. Bringing Discovery back into its present seems like a bad idea now that everything is cleaned up so neatly. So will it only take place in the distant future? If they jumped where they wanted to jump (950 years into the future, where Michael's mother is), they should end up around the 31. century. Maybe Agent Daniels is actually the in vitro hybridized son of Staments and Culber. Anyway, all in all, I thought Discovery Season 2 was a definite step up from (the already pretty good) season 1. I'll give it a generous 9/10 mysterious red signals.
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 26, 2019 13:49:51 GMT
So, in the past month I’ve been working through TNG for the very first time, having watched Enterprise a long time ago and later TOS. I like it very much... Yeah, that’s all I wanted to say.
Should I watch DS9 or Voyager next?
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Post by KrrKs on Sept 26, 2019 15:20:07 GMT
So, in the past month I’ve been working through TNG for the very first time, having watched Enterprise a long time ago and later TOS. I like it very much... Yeah, that’s all I wanted to say. Should I watch DS9 or Voyager next? How is TNG when coming from ENT? I know the TNG to TOS transition is somewhat rough to get into.
As for what to watch next, I'd go with the chronological order of DS9 first and then VOY.
VOY is more or less the same as TNG and ENT.
DS9 takes some time to get used to, especially the first two seasons can be a bore - similar to ENT and TNG - but confined to the station for the most part. It gets better once the Dominion is introduced and the Defiant arrives. At that time, the structure also changes. ENT (up until season 3), TOS, TNG, and VOY are episodic series. Most things that happen do not affect what comes after. DS9 in the other hand gets an overarching story/threat that determines much of what happens from season 3 onward. Mostly not as strict as the Xindi arc in ENT, but it is always there.
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Post by AnDromedary on Sept 26, 2019 17:51:45 GMT
So, in the past month I’ve been working through TNG for the very first time, having watched Enterprise a long time ago and later TOS. I like it very much... Yeah, that’s all I wanted to say. Should I watch DS9 or Voyager next? TNG is my favorite Star Trek Series by a long shot and probably my favorite TV series overall. Definitely give DS9 a go (and keep going until the 3rd season, even if it drags a little in the beginning but that's when it really takes off and trust me, it's worth the wait). Voyager is hit and miss IMO. I was not that big a fan of the cast to be honest but it definitely has its moments and if you like the TNG era, it's definitely good enough to provide more fodder there.
By they way, if you want to keep the episodes in in-universe chronological order, DS9 overlaps with TNG and Voyager starts during the second season of DS9 (I think). So ideally you want to watch those intermittently but you don't have to, there isn't really any relevant overlaps in story. Just throwing it out there.
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Post by Heimdall on Sept 26, 2019 20:33:28 GMT
So, in the past month I’ve been working through TNG for the very first time, having watched Enterprise a long time ago and later TOS. I like it very much... Yeah, that’s all I wanted to say. Should I watch DS9 or Voyager next? How is TNG when coming from ENT? I know the TNG to TOS transition is somewhat rough to get into. Well it’s been some years since I actually watched enterprise. I found myself expecting some longer storyline to start with the Borg but I’m at season 6 and it hasn’t materialized. The episodic nature of the show was a little hard to get used to, though even Enterprise was like that to a degree. I found myself really getting attached to the cast though.
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Post by Terminator Force on Sept 28, 2019 23:59:10 GMT
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Oct 6, 2019 12:00:35 GMT
This one sounds pretty good.
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Post by CHRrOME on Oct 7, 2019 15:57:45 GMT
So is this gonna be a tv series? thought it was gonna be yet another movie. The problem with the series format is that is too expensive with all the CGI, but we'll see. Can't say I'm the biggest fan there is about Star Trek, only ever saw the movies, but I've found them good enough for my taste, so I'm mildly interested in this.
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 7, 2019 16:08:59 GMT
So is this gonna be a tv series? thought it was gonna be yet another movie. The problem with the series format is that is too expensive with all the CGI, but we'll see. Can't say I'm the biggest fan there is about Star Trek, only ever saw the movies, but I've found them good enough for my taste, so I'm mildly interested in this. It’s a series, but I imagine it will be a limited one or it will pass the torch to the younger characters. Mostly because Sir Patrick Stewart is 79 years old.
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Post by Heimdall on Oct 7, 2019 16:10:09 GMT
Also, started DS9, still in the first season but I’m liking the space station setting more than a I thought.
I’m really digging Odo and Quark
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Post by colfoley on Oct 10, 2019 6:28:44 GMT
Also, started DS9, still in the first season but I’m liking the space station setting more than a I thought. I’m really digging Odo and Quark DS9 is pretty much Trem at its finest, especially seasons 5-7.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 30, 2019 16:12:00 GMT
Also, started DS9, still in the first season but I’m liking the space station setting more than a I thought. I’m really digging Odo and Quark One thing DS9 did really well is take advantage of the stationary setting to allow for continuity.
Unlike Voyager, where they maintained the status quo so rigidly that the events of one episode existed in a vacuum and were easily forgotten next week, in DS9, even if they fixed the problem of the week, sometimes the consequences of one episode might end up cropping up for the rest of the season (or even longer).
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 30, 2019 18:52:27 GMT
Also, started DS9, still in the first season but I’m liking the space station setting more than a I thought. I’m really digging Odo and Quark One thing DS9 did really well is take advantage of the stationary setting to allow for continuity.
Unlike Voyager, where they maintained the status quo so rigidly that the events of one episode existed in a vacuum and were easily forgotten next week, in DS9, even if they fixed the problem of the week, sometimes the consequences of one episode might end up cropping up for the rest of the season (or even longer). There was some untapped potential there in Voyager. For some reason, they didn't seem to have too many problems to maintain the ship. Even at the beginning of the last episode Voyager looks pretty much in the same shape as in Caretaker.
I'd have liked to see it deteriorate over time, kind of like the Galactica does in the reimagined BSG. They actually did a decent job with it in the feature length episode "Year of Hell" but of course, it's all fixed at the end and we are back to normal. Would have been better to do this more gradually over the years IMO.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 30, 2019 21:02:28 GMT
There was some untapped potential there in Voyager. For some reason, they didn't seem to have too many problems to maintain the ship. Even at the beginning of the last episode Voyager looks pretty much in the same shape as in Caretaker.
I'd have liked to see it deteriorate over time, kind of like the Galactica does in the reimagined BSG. They actually did a decent job with it in the feature length episode "Year of Hell" but of course, it's all fixed at the end and we are back to normal. Would have been better to do this more gradually over the years IMO.
I'd have preferred Voyager's appearance to have gradually changed over time, allowing the viewer to visually see the toil that 70,000 lightyears took on the ship and a permanent reminder that they were alone in unknown and often hostile space.
Rather than looking pristine and like it rolled off the factory that morning, by the time it got home, the hull should have been awash with different coloured metals due to constant repairs with whatever they had on hand, marked by faint pockmarks and battlescars etc. I always though they should have never removed the Borg tech on the hull following Scorpion and simply left it on there, slowly adding more alien tech to Voyager as they went.
As for the interior, it could have been fun to see parts of the ship slowly start to lose deckplates and wall panels. With resources being tight, I could easily see Torres ordering Engineering to go round the ship and rip out any non-essential panels because they needed that metal to do priority repairs elsewhere. Engineering could have gotten more stripped down as well with bits of the floor and walls left exposed, because it was easier to do maintenance on the fly.
By "Endgame", when Voyager exits the subspace corridor, imagine if we'd seen the Federation fleet taking a few seconds to even realise that it was one of their ships because Voyager looked so different to when she'd left in "Caretaker".
That's what I loved about "Year of Hell", that the ship wasn't magically fixed (until the end), but got progressively more ramshackle over the episode. Apparently Braga had wanted to do "Year of Hell" as an entire season of Voyager (which would have been amazing) but they kept cutting it down, first to a four-parter and then finally a two-parter. The Xindi Arc in Enterprise was him finally able to do his intended "Season of Hell" from Voyager, which is why they have a lot of similarities.
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Post by KrrKs on Nov 11, 2019 21:06:41 GMT
The folks of Axanar just released a size comparizon chart
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Nov 11, 2019 22:17:37 GMT
There was some untapped potential there in Voyager. For some reason, they didn't seem to have too many problems to maintain the ship. Even at the beginning of the last episode Voyager looks pretty much in the same shape as in Caretaker.
I'd have liked to see it deteriorate over time, kind of like the Galactica does in the reimagined BSG. They actually did a decent job with it in the feature length episode "Year of Hell" but of course, it's all fixed at the end and we are back to normal. Would have been better to do this more gradually over the years IMO.
I'd have preferred Voyager's appearance to have gradually changed over time, allowing the viewer to visually see the toil that 70,000 lightyears took on the ship and a permanent reminder that they were alone in unknown and often hostile space.
Rather than looking pristine and like it rolled off the factory that morning, by the time it got home, the hull should have been awash with different coloured metals due to constant repairs with whatever they had on hand, marked by faint pockmarks and battlescars etc. I always though they should have never removed the Borg tech on the hull following Scorpion and simply left it on there, slowly adding more alien tech to Voyager as they went.
As for the interior, it could have been fun to see parts of the ship slowly start to lose deckplates and wall panels. With resources being tight, I could easily see Torres ordering Engineering to go round the ship and rip out any non-essential panels because they needed that metal to do priority repairs elsewhere. Engineering could have gotten more stripped down as well with bits of the floor and walls left exposed, because it was easier to do maintenance on the fly.
By "Endgame", when Voyager exits the subspace corridor, imagine if we'd seen the Federation fleet taking a few seconds to even realise that it was one of their ships because Voyager looked so different to when she'd left in "Caretaker".
That's what I loved about "Year of Hell", that the ship wasn't magically fixed (until the end), but got progressively more ramshackle over the episode. Apparently Braga had wanted to do "Year of Hell" as an entire season of Voyager (which would have been amazing) but they kept cutting it down, first to a four-parter and then finally a two-parter. The Xindi Arc in Enterprise was him finally able to do his intended "Season of Hell" from Voyager, which is why they have a lot of similarities.
I think most Trekkers are of the same mind regards the condition of Voyager throughout their journey. I'd thought they would become scavengers, coming up with innovative ways to grab whatever bits and pieces they encountered, ways to conserve materials and energy. Their creed and personalities would change and evolve along the way. But alas. *shrug* I still enjoy the show nevertheless.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 14, 2019 15:54:48 GMT
Well, I finished DS9, and I have to say I think it’s my favorite series so far. Sisko might not be my favorite Captain though.
On to Voyager then.
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Post by Sifr on Nov 18, 2019 18:40:19 GMT
I think most Trekkers are of the same mind regards the condition of Voyager throughout their journey. I'd thought they would become scavengers, coming up with innovative ways to grab whatever bits and pieces they encountered, ways to conserve materials and energy. Their creed and personalities would change and evolve along the way. But alas. *shrug* I still enjoy the show nevertheless. Put that way, it would even justify the reason for Neelix being a main character... he's what the crew of Voyager would have to become to order to survive the Delta Quadrant. What if the squeaky-clean Starfleet crew had initially looked down on Neelix for scavenging other people's junk/technology, but slowly come to adopt (and even embrace) that very mindset by the end of their journey?
But I agree with you, even for all it's missed potential, I do have a soft spot for Voyager.
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Post by skekSil on Nov 18, 2019 19:19:17 GMT
Sisko might not be my favorite Captain though. His theatrics became somewhat anoying as time went by. Good luck with Voyager, couldn't really get into it.
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Post by saandrig on Nov 22, 2019 15:13:51 GMT
Sisko might not be my favorite Captain though. His theatrics became somewhat anoying as time went by. Good luck with Voyager, couldn't really get into it. The Doctor and Seven carried it for me. I prefer the more lighthearted Trek stuff and Voyager was pretty much in line with it. I do like it's dark episodes too (those time ship ones), but just as a temporary (hah!) pace changer.
I almost abandoned the whole show halfway through that boring, tedious, season long Xindi Arc that should have been 2-3 episodes tops in my books
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Post by Sifr on Nov 23, 2019 4:59:00 GMT
I almost abandoned the whole show halfway through that boring, tedious, season long Xindi Arc that should have been 2-3 episodes tops in my books I think that the Xindi Arc could have been better if they'd removed all the pointless filler episodes... or else had even the filler contribute in some way to a progression of their search for the Xindi or some means of stopping them.
Because episodes like "North Star" made you really question their priorities.
"Archer, I know that playing at being a cowboy sounds like it'd be a lot of fun... but maybe you should hold off on checking out Westworld until after you've stopped the aliens, hellbent on building a Death Star that will destroy the Earth?"
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Post by Addictress on Nov 26, 2019 7:20:48 GMT
Yeah I finished marathoning 100% of Deep Space 9 last month. Love it. Unexpectedly a fan of Odo/Kira ship. So, I've watched every single series in the Star Trek universe now, except Discovery - I keep trying to get into Discovery but it bothers me. It just doesn't vibe with the other series. I marathoned the Original Series several years ago now and have forgotten many of the episodes. Time to marathon TOS again! My favorite series is actually Enterprise. Thought it had the most intriguing combination of near-future/pseudo-historical apollo vibes plus mind-bending time travel subplots.
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Post by Chenowl Blanc on Nov 28, 2019 12:49:48 GMT
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic but I have to ask: did anyone ever play Star Trek - A Final Unity?
It just came to my mind thinking about games I played in my childhood, and this was was definitely a big challenge xD I could never finish it, but I loved it nonetheless.
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