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Post by colfoley on Mar 6, 2020 18:48:29 GMT
I've always hated Picard, he might be my most despised fictional character ever so the idea that Picard might make him worse is a bit amusing.
Anyways no interest in watching it for awhile, despite my peripheral interest.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 9, 2020 8:18:03 GMT
I've always hated Picard, he might be my most despised fictional character ever so the idea that Picard might make him worse is a bit amusing. Anyways no interest in watching it for awhile, despite my peripheral interest. It’s too bad that the setting deteriorated with him. It’s kind of ironic that The friggin Orville manages to be more Star Trek-like than whatever these schlock peddlers are making. If I had to name a character in ST I hated the most, it would probably be Jake Sisko, or I like to call “Black Wesley”. I wanted him to die so badly.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 9, 2020 8:40:01 GMT
I've always hated Picard, he might be my most despised fictional character ever so the idea that Picard might make him worse is a bit amusing. Anyways no interest in watching it for awhile, despite my peripheral interest. It’s too bad that the setting deteriorated with him. It’s kind of ironic that The friggin Orville manages to be more Star Trek-like than whatever these schlock peddlers are making. If I had to name a character in ST I hated the most, it would probably be Jake Sisko, or I like to call “Black Wesley”. I wanted him to die so badly. being a writer I can't hate Jake too much but I am on the stupid him staying behind on DS9 during the Dominion War. As far as Orville the bits I've watched remind me of TNG...just with bad comedy. So no interest there either.
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Post by saandrig on Mar 11, 2020 11:09:04 GMT
I've always hated Picard, he might be my most despised fictional character ever so the idea that Picard might make him worse is a bit amusing. We all know Data was the one who truly ran the Enterprise anyway
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Post by azarhal on Mar 13, 2020 15:18:23 GMT
After episode 8, I'm thinking Picard's writing teams are fans of BioWare's video games...especially Mass Effect.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 13, 2020 17:24:00 GMT
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Post by Sifr on Mar 14, 2020 6:29:56 GMT
So I’ve been continuing my Voyager watch, I got through Year of Hell this week and I’ve been told the original concept was for that to be a whole season with the Voyager falling apart over time. And apparently producer Ronald Moore pointed to this episode as an example of what he would have liked more of Voyager to be like. Given his involvement with the Battlestar Galactica reboot, one of my favorite pieces of television, the origins of that series are making a lot more sense to me now. Year in Hell as a season arc without a reset button would have been epic, just as season one of ENTerprise was supposed to be on earth, building the NX-01. Shame both ideas were prevented from happening. Both of these ideas were pitched by Braga and he's gone on record as wishing they'd done them.
I have a feeling that for all the flack fans have thrown at Braga at the years, the truth of the matter is that Rick Berman was the reason why Enterprise and Voyager were so often bland and uninspired, because he refused to allow any of the writers to take risks and shake things up.
It's very telling that the only reason that the Dominion War happened was because the writers on DS9 (that Berman wasn't involved with) didn't tell him what they were doing until it was far too late for him to veto it.
Star Trek Deep Space 9 may not be a favorite of mine but it may still be my favorite Trek. Sisko started off as your typical Starfleet 'bigot' against the Ferengi and even Bajorans to a lesser extent. But when Quark pointed it out he didn't double down and turtledove up, he learned Ferengi customs and even moderated to a certain degree. He's always been one of the more tolerant SF Captains. Sisko has the best character arc and journey of all the captains.
He goes from someone who's just there to do a job and is uncomfortable being seen as a spiritual figure by the locals, to actively embracing his role as the Emissary, becoming well versed in Bajoran culture and even wanting to retire to Bajor rather than Earth by the end of the series.
I've always hated Picard, he might be my most despised fictional character ever so the idea that Picard might make him worse is a bit amusing. Anyways no interest in watching it for awhile, despite my peripheral interest. Why do you hate Picard exactly?
I can see why he's unlikable in early TNG, where he was curmudgeonly towards pretty much everyone, but he definitely mellowed by the end of TNG and continued that trend into become a cool old guy by the time of Picard. He still can be a little proud, arrogant and self-righteous at times, but he's far more willing these days to admit when he's wrong about things.
Picard has always been someone who seems to have completely bought into the ideals of the Federation and tried to uphold them the best he could, so him continuing to adhere to the "Starfleet gospel" even now is both in-character and highlights his frustration, alienation and sense of betrayal that the organisation that he faithfully served all his life could abandon their values when the going got tough.
being a writer I can't hate Jake too much but I am on the stupid him staying behind on DS9 during the Dominion War. Jake Sisko: Writes a news article criticising the Dominion for being an authoritarian regime.
Dominion: Doesn't believe in freedom of the press because they are an authoritarian regime.
Jake Sisko: Surprised Pikachu face.
Possibly the dumbest moment from him during that whole arc.
Although the Dominion were equally dumb for not trying to to exert some leverage over Sisko by taking Jake as a hostage.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 14, 2020 6:43:55 GMT
So I’ve been continuing my Voyager watch, I got through Year of Hell this week and I’ve been told the original concept was for that to be a whole season with the Voyager falling apart over time. And apparently producer Ronald Moore pointed to this episode as an example of what he would have liked more of Voyager to be like. Given his involvement with the Battlestar Galactica reboot, one of my favorite pieces of television, the origins of that series are making a lot more sense to me now. Year in Hell as a season arc without a reset button would have been epic, just as season one of ENTerprise was supposed to be on earth, building the NX-01. Shame both ideas were prevented from happening. Both of these ideas were pitched by Braga and he's gone on record as wishing they'd done them.
I have a feeling that for all the flack fans have thrown at Braga at the years, the truth of the matter is that Rick Berman was the reason why Enterprise and Voyager were so often bland and uninspired, because he refused to allow any of the writers to take risks and shake things up.
It's very telling that the only reason that the Dominion War happened was because the writers on DS9 (that Berman wasn't involved with) didn't tell him what they were doing until it was far too late for him to veto it.
Star Trek Deep Space 9 may not be a favorite of mine but it may still be my favorite Trek. Sisko started off as your typical Starfleet 'bigot' against the Ferengi and even Bajorans to a lesser extent. But when Quark pointed it out he didn't double down and turtledove up, he learned Ferengi customs and even moderated to a certain degree. He's always been one of the more tolerant SF Captains. Sisko has the best character arc and journey of all the captains.
He goes from someone who's just there to do a job and is uncomfortable being seen as a spiritual figure by the locals, to actively embracing his role as the Emissary, becoming well versed in Bajoran culture and even wanting to retire to Bajor rather than Earth by the end of the series.
I've always hated Picard, he might be my most despised fictional character ever so the idea that Picard might make him worse is a bit amusing. Anyways no interest in watching it for awhile, despite my peripheral interest. Why do you hate Picard exactly?
I can see why he's unlikable in early TNG, where he was curmudgeonly towards pretty much everyone, but he definitely mellowed by the end of TNG and continued that trend into become a cool old guy by the time of Picard. He still can be a little proud, arrogant and self-righteous at times, but he's far more willing these days to admit when he's wrong about things.
Picard has always been someone who seems to have completely bought into the ideals of the Federation and tried to uphold them the best he could, so him continuing to adhere to the "Starfleet gospel" even now is both in-character and highlights his frustration, alienation and sense of betrayal that the organisation that he faithfully served all his life could abandon their values when the going got tough.
being a writer I can't hate Jake too much but I am on the stupid him staying behind on DS9 during the Dominion War. Jake Sisko: Writes a news article criticising the Dominion for being an authoritarian regime.
Dominion: Doesn't believe in freedom of the press because they are an authoritarian regime.
Jake Sisko: Surprised Pikachu face.
Possibly the dumbest moment from him during that whole arc.
Although the Dominion were equally dumb for not trying to to exert some leverage over Sisko by taking Jake as a hostage.
Arrogance, hypocrysy, and stupidity. Two scenes/ episodes in particular drive my dislike...the one with the Vulcans and his little 'anti religion' speech and then him and Riker fawning over how advanced 24th century humans were over us lowly 20th/21st century humans during the Neutral Zone. But then overall his combat tactics left a lot to be desired (I think we have talked about this before?) and the general whole idea about how idealistic he is supposed to be and how tolerant the Federation is towards different cultures...but then how not tolerant he is in actuality with the above examples and a few other things. Sisko was just the better all around Captain and its telling that he is regarded as the 'anti Picard'. Yeah that honestly was probably the stupidest plot choice they made in that arc. I suppose it did benefit though that it gave them an extra body to sabotage the station when the time came. On the flip side I wonder if he couldn't have smuggled his stories out with Rom...but that seems like it would open a whole can of worms y itself.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 14, 2020 7:28:44 GMT
Picard's anti-religion stance is especially hypocritical given that his justification for why the non-interventionist Prime Directive is necessary is that they cannot upset the "natural order" of things, as if there exists some predefined plan for the cosmos put in place by some higher power that they would be interfering with.
Picard can definitely be intolerant at times (even if he claims to respect all cultures and their beliefs), but we do see some improvement over TNG and him slowly grow to respect the Klingons and Romulans.
Even if he didn't always approve of certain elements of the Klingon culture (such as their honour killings), he did bother to become more familiar with their customs and traditions so he could better understand them (and Worf). In earlier seasons, Worf would usually be the one to explain or deal with Klingon matters for Picard, but by the end of the show, Picard has no problem interacting with Klingons, conversing in their language or partaking in their customs.
(Similarly by the time of Picard, he's shown to have become very well versed in Romulan culture)
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 14, 2020 10:12:25 GMT
Admittedly, I realize that no small part of why I like Picard comes down to how much I enjoy Patrick Stewart generally.
In the early seasons of TNG, especially whenever it seems like he’s being a mouthpiece for some of Gene Roddenberry’s weirder ideas, he can definitely be unlikeably arrogant.
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 16, 2020 1:28:26 GMT
I was going though some best of lists and I just sort of decided “Darmok” might be my favorite Star Trek episode, and at least it’s one where Patrick Stewart shines in his Picard shoes. There are some creative if imperfect ideas here with a people who communicate primarily through reference and metaphor.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 17, 2020 2:53:34 GMT
Admittedly, I realize that no small part of why I like Picard comes down to how much I enjoy Patrick Stewart generally. In the early seasons of TNG, especially whenever it seems like he’s being a mouthpiece for some of Gene Roddenberry’s weirder ideas, he can definitely be unlikeably arrogant. The early-TNG crew do come across as some of the most arrogant blowhards to have ever graced the television screen, Picard in particular. Thankfully most of them (except perhaps Riker) had mellowed and outgrown their obnoxious streak by the end of the show.
Then again, the whole early run of TNG was a creative mess with no consistent voice because they were losing writers left, right and centre. If anyone's seen the "Chaos on the Bridge" documentary, it's amazing that the show lasted long enough to be syndicated with the turmoil going on behind the scenes (like Roddenberry's lawyer supposedly breaking into offices and doing illegal rewrites on other people's scripts).
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 17, 2020 12:07:21 GMT
Admittedly, I realize that no small part of why I like Picard comes down to how much I enjoy Patrick Stewart generally. In the early seasons of TNG, especially whenever it seems like he’s being a mouthpiece for some of Gene Roddenberry’s weirder ideas, he can definitely be unlikeably arrogant. The early-TNG crew do come across as some of the most arrogant blowhards to have ever graced the television screen, Picard in particular. Thankfully most of them (except perhaps Riker) had mellowed and outgrown their obnoxious streak by the end of the show.
Then again, the whole early run of TNG was a creative mess with no consistent voice because they were losing writers left, right and centre. If anyone's seen the "Chaos on the Bridge" documentary, it's amazing that the show lasted long enough to be syndicated with the turmoil going on behind the scenes (like Roddenberry's lawyer supposedly breaking into offices and doing illegal rewrites on other people's scripts). I didn’t know about any of that but I believe it. Any time the early seasons started going on about “evolved humans” and how the federation had “evolved beyond money” and all the Starfleet personnel are in it purely for self improvement... I’d start feeling astonished that this show got as popular as it did because it could be so incredibly haughty and dumb.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 19, 2020 8:54:10 GMT
The DS9 episode "In The Cards" was a great counter to the idea of the Federation having "evolved beyond money and the need for material possessions", because at the end of a long series of trades that Nog and Jake engaged in, countless people on DS9 and on Bajor had all acquired things that made them happier as a result. Jake also showed how entitled people in the Federation can be, that even though he doesn't believe in money, he fully expected Nog to hand over his so he could buy something for Sisko. In retrospect, Nog often comes across as being a far better friend to Jake, than Jake tends to be to him. --- On a slight DS9-related tangent, repeats of the classic 60's series "The Time Tunnel" has begun airing recently and I saw the name James Darren in the opening credits, but I couldn't figure out why the name seemed so familiar to me. Then one of the main characters started speaking and it suddenly dawned on me that it was Vic Fontaine! I remember watching old repeats of the show as a kid, but I never realised he was in it before?
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Post by Sifr on Mar 19, 2020 16:33:07 GMT
Rewatching Voyager and got to the episode where the Borg children join the crew. (Spoiler for Picard); Pour one out for Icheb, he deserved better. What happened to the Borg baby though? It seemingly disappeared and was never mentioned again after the episode. Did they find it's species (like with most of the other kids) or were the Voyager writers trapped between a rock and a hard place, unwilling to commit to the dangling plot-thread, but unable to exactly show a baby dying onscreen? I'd imagine the writers of "Deadlock" only got away with it there, because they were able to pull a switcheroo in that episode and replace the dead baby Naomi with the living one from the duplicated Voyager (as well as Harry)?
Shame really, because the concept of Voyager struggling to raise an infant Borg would have been fun to explore.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 30, 2020 4:31:50 GMT
Watched Episode 4 of the arc at the beginning of season 6. Its something that I have noticed this time around that Odo's heal turn quite wasn't the heal turn I thought it was initially. They did a clever job setting it up by driving a bit of a wedge between Kira and Odo even before that...with his being on the council and her terrorist tactics.
The more I watch this the more I think they missed a golden opprotunity to make Sisko an Admiral and give him command of the Ninth Fleet. Or at least some small section. Dax or Worf could've had the Defiant...at least sort of...and Kira could've gotten the station. It really seems they were setting that up with his promotion by Admiral Ross and his increase levels of responsibilities. It also would've made a lot of sense too given the future stuff and Sisko was essentially acting as a Fleet Commander anyways.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 6, 2020 20:22:57 GMT
I sadly have to agree with almost everything they talk about here. Every franchise I love is falling apart, and my heart can't take anymore.
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Post by N7eezo on Apr 6, 2020 23:13:35 GMT
Star Trek's recent small screen revival (DSC, PIC) hasn't been what I was hoping for (so far). The story telling in general with few exceptions aside (including the excellent and varied Short Treks) has been especially disappointing to me. Somehow I feel the pendulum has swung way over from science fiction towards fantasy, with mandatory twists and shock moments for the sake of it.
I do however like some of the characters Saru, Tilly, Pike, Una, Rios, Elnor, Seven/Annika and are looking forward to an unshakeled DSC season 3.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 9, 2020 15:28:19 GMT
I sadly have to agree with almost everything they talk about here. Every franchise I love is falling apart, and my heart can't take anymore. Wow, I just watched Picard over the last week and I just watched the first 10 minutes of this video (then I had to turn it off because the 3 guys were too self-indulging without conveying any reasoning behind their opinions). He didn't even invite anyone with a counterpoint.
Personally, I am an old-school TNG fan and Picard was always my favorite character, certainly in ST, if not in fiction in general. I loved this series. I thought it was the perfect synthesis of throwbacks to the old characters and series while also doing something genuinely new and interesting and through it all - better than Discovery did in their first season - maintain the essence of Star Trek. I also like that they deliberately make it a series about older people. This is something you don't see on TV a lot and certainly not in SciFi. In Joe's video, I got far enough to hear them say that it's all about "female empowerment" now and that Picard is just guided along by the nose. I couldn't disagree more. He is initiating the whole thing and he is making the decisions that drive everything forward. Sure, it's the young people who implement it but that to me was a good thing. I'd have hated to see Picard himself as a 94 year old man in some CGIed action sequences. It's good that he is the controlling factor in the background. Picard is also the one who resolves the entire situation in the end. He is the one who sees that the solution to the problem is to allow the synths the freedom to choose to be better than their fears. He is the one who is giving them an opportunity to step down and to trust. It was a hell of a gamble but it is what Star Trek and TNG especially has always been about. Ethics over everything. Is it entirely realistic? Hell no and a lot of people here in this thread have pointed that out as a series flaw, which other ST iterations like DS9 "rectified" to some extent. To me, that overblown morality was an aspect that drew me into TNG. It's fiction, it's not meant to be entirely realistic, it's meant to be better than reality a depiction of what to strive for, rather than what may or may not be possible. In that sense, I think Picard nails Roddenberry's vision perfectly and the fact that they pit the largest fleets since probably the Dominion War against each other and then DON'T have a space battle was the perfect finale to that.
Picard's character development itself was rather bold and I get why some people might hate it but I thought it was pretty good. Sure, I'd also have liked to see him in an Admiral's uniform, still being the big man but that would also have been a little lame. This scenario shows Picard as way more human and flawed than we ever saw him before and that's cool IMO. A lot of people here say that say saw TNG Picard as a very arrogant man and he was. He just had the benefit of the plots of that series making him right pretty much every single time but now, he gets his character traits thrown in his face a lot. Heck, he fell victim to it himself with his ploy to resign, so sure they'd never go for it ... and then they did. To me, Picard's development - while it may not have been the nicest thing to happen to him - makes perfect sense and sets up the new plot with it's own conflicts very nicely.
As for the Federation, another criticism I hear a lot, about Picard, again, yes, the Federation is in some trouble but it's not like it's unrelatable trouble. It's not like they suddenly became a xenophobic mess or a military state (which almost happened before by the way, think DS9: Paradise lost). I saw an interview with one of the producers of the show, who said they wanted to show, not a corrupted Federation but a Federation in a complex situation, that has to juggle a lot of interests and problems. And at least to me, that came across. They didn't abandon the Romulans out of spite or malice, I'd say they didn't abandon them at all. Shit (aka the synth attack on Mars) just happened and - as is spelled out in one of the early episodes - the only way to assemble another evac fleet would have been again with massive synth labor, which they didn't want anymore after the attack. To me, that is understandable. I'd not even call it selfish, it makes sense and Picard's massively offended dignity seems to be a lot fo ego, next to his dedication to the evacuation (which also makes sense for that character).
And I am not sure if I should even comment on the whole "female empowerment agenda" crap. No strong male characters? When that whole show centres around Picard, Rios is the captain of the new ship, Elnor is the super-warrior dude and whatnot. Please...
There were certainly things I didn't like about the show as well, chief among them is Picard's fake death, I hate these kinds of fake deaths in any show and I don't understand why they need to happen again and again, it was certainly completely unnecessary here and just bad fake drama. I also was a bit disgruntled that not one of the old characters really just made it. All of them have been befallen by tragedy one way or another and came down in life it seems. Riker and Troy lost a son and live like hermits in the woods now. Seven's development is downright gut wrenching (and Icheb's eyeball scene was overdoing it a little, I thought). U mean, it's all fine but I'd have liked to see at least one person who came out ok. Maybe in season two we'll see LaForge teaching at the academy or Worf as ambassador hunting targ with Martok or Admiral Janeway still kicking butt in SanFran. That would be nice. Some of the design choices, I also didn't like. I thought all the star fleet uniforms (both, the 2399 and the 2385 ones) look crappy and like some of the cheap alternative future designs they had in some TNG episodes). I also hated that they went back to pulsed weapons, instead of particle beams. constant beams for phasers make so much more sense than this shooting of little lightning bolts. Why would you ever go back to something inferior? It reminds me of the thermal clip issue in Mass Effect. More importantly, there were also some plot holes here and there but nothing too major, that I could sopt. And one thing I actually agree with Angry Joe on is that some of the binding of the new crew happens a bit fast. All in all though, I most of my negatives are fairly nit-picky. A;; in all, I thought Picard was wonderful to watch and I'll probably give it a second round soon.
EDIT: Ok, decided in fairness, to go through the rest of Joe's review: - The Mass Effect rip-off: I had that thought as well, when they first brought it up in Episode 6 or whatever it was but it's not ME, in fact, here, it's kind of the opposite. The reapers would be on the side of the synths. And anyway, while this apocalyptic threat is sort of the driving point behind the story, it stays in the background and is not the plot like it was in ME.So that comparison is not an issue IMO. - I do agree on the point they make about Agnis and the murder of Maddox, they should have turned her in (and they were going to before they had to race to the synth planet). I hope that in season 2, she will be in prison. - It seems the "other Joe" just wanted one bit of fan service after another. - Seven holding hands with Raffi at the end, they interpret this as the start of a relationship between the two, I didn't. And even if, well, it would be weird, falls under what I said earlier, some character stuff is a bit iffy, especially with the new ones. Over all, I do think they are interpreting too much into all this. I didn't get the impression that there was anything sexual between Norek (?) and his sister. Same with Agnis and Rios. Same with Raffi and the Starfleet official she sweet-talks, what the hell, are they seeing sex everywhere? That's on them, not the show. - Of the plot holes they discuss, most of it is like smudboy coming up with Mass Effect plot holes. Most of it is just that they want to see problems, where there are none. Not gonmna go into every single one here but I can counter pretty much everything they say. Just this one, because they keep going on about it, the vision, while we see some images, clearly affects people differently when it's put straight into their mind. It's clearly more than a slide show. They do come across as people who don't want to get it.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 9, 2020 17:03:09 GMT
I sadly have to agree with almost everything they talk about here. Every franchise I love is falling apart, and my heart can't take anymore. They do come across as people who don't want to get it.
And after that gigantic, herculean wall of text, which I almost universally disagree with, you kinda come across as someone who also sees what they want to see, and also as someone who is trying desperately to justify things that destroy the vision Roddenberry had of Star Trek. As for Other Joe, hes not a Trek fan, and knows nothing about it. So of course, he wants things that are wholly different than what Trek fans want. As for the Smudboy reference, everything Smudboy has ever pointed out, are technically plot holes and flaws. Now weather or not anyone cares about those, is up to the individual. I personally don't care for his content, but he has never pointed out something that isn't technically a flaw.
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Post by AnDromedary on Apr 9, 2020 17:48:31 GMT
They do come across as people who don't want to get it.
And after that gigantic, herculean wall of text, which I almost universally disagree with, you kinda come across as someone who also sees what they want to see, and also as someone who is trying desperately to justify things that destroy the vision Roddenberry had of Star Trek. As for Other Joe, hes not a Trek fan, and knows nothing about it. So of course, he wants things that are wholly different than what Trek fans want. As for the Smudboy reference, everything Smudboy has ever pointed out, are technically plot holes and flaws. Now weather or not anyone cares about those, is up to the individual. I personally don't care for his content, but he has never pointed out something that isn't technically a flaw. Well, if you read any of my posts on other stuff (games, series, et.c) here, you'll see walls of text are my thing. And sure, I wrote how I interpreted what I saw. If you want to call that "how I want to see things", fine. I am just saying, their interpretation is not the only one and I was a bit disappointed they don't even consider other viewpoints in that 1:20 video.
Other Joe, I thought he was the Star Trek fan (the one in red)? Maybe I confused the two. Anyway, I meant the guy who knew TNG. As for Smudboy, my problem with him and with these dudes as well) is that he comes up with a lot of problems that are problems for him because their solution - though simple - are not explicitly spelled out on screen. To me (and I know there are different thresholds for different people) these are not plot holes. A plot hole is an issue that is completely contradictory. As long as there are reasonable circumstances in which something could make sense (even if it happened off screen and is not mentioned), it's fine to me. About 99% of what these guys were complaining about - to me - falls in this category.
Anyway, I wanted to write a rather lengthy opinion text on Picard anyway and this video just gave me a framework for it and now it's done. I am sorry you guys didn't enjoy the show.
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Post by KrrKs on Apr 9, 2020 19:08:06 GMT
I haven't seen the angry joe video on picard, and don't intent to. Their views and even critisims on movies don't match well with mine for the most part, as I've previously found out. My own opinions on picard are rather mixed. I don't hate it. It is far better than I feared it to be. Especially after what I've heard about and seen from discovery. I don't love it. It is by far not as great as i'd hoped it to be. There are some things I detest about it. The ship design. The conveniences - everybody present has some previous personal reason that makes the synths situation personal to them, even if it were not in the beginning. The Reaper space-tentacle-from-a-hole-in-the-sky thingy. The 'created organic(!) synths from a single(!) neuron(!)' (aaarrgs ) - even though there was a perfectly reasonably available complete back up available in B4, that they even brought up in the last episode. But there are also a few things I love. Like that it finally progresses the state of the Trekverse forward, and shows a bit of what happened after the TNG/DS9/Voy series and the movies. I like that we finally saw a bit of civilian live in the federation, even if I don't like all of what we got to see. I mean, yes we saw and heard Sisko senior before, but that was pretty much it. In the end, while I agree with most of what AnDromedary said, the show as a whole is on the better side of 'meh' for me. A rating that it shares with most Voyager episodes, and the first two seasons of TNG, DS9, and ENT.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 10, 2020 21:05:20 GMT
What bothers me about most reviews online is the apparent double-standards you sometimes see.
There are fans who purport to like DS9 with it's imperfect Federation with a more militaristic Starfleet and morally grey conflicts, yet somehow hate Picard because it shows an imperfect Federation with a more militaristic Starfleet with morally grey conflicts.
That is not to say that Picard is good, nor anywhere near the quality of DS9, only that it is weird to see fans criticise the exact same elements that they loved in DS9 and even complained that show didn't go far enough with?
That said, toning down the action in modern Trek is a complaint that I can get behind.
It especially makes sense to tone down the action with Picard, as his character was always a badass pacifist. Some of his best moments in TNG involved him defeating enemies without ever having to fire a shot, such as rules lawyering the Sheliak into submission or sending the Romulans scurrying by revealing the posse of cloaked Klingon warbirds backing him up.
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