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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 12:57:25 GMT
Yeah, but really, it’s just taking off RNG. They can certainly sell items for cash, I doubt anyone can actually really legally forbid that. If it is protecting children, I suppose they can put M rating on, and go with some restrictions on underaged gamers. Like that curfew in Korea...
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 22, 2017 13:16:50 GMT
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 22, 2017 13:17:30 GMT
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 22, 2017 13:27:40 GMT
Well, it should be interesting to see how this plays out. I bet other publishers are cursing EA now for potentially killing their golden goose. Probably not, they are probably wondering why they are raising such an issue over Battlefront and completely ignored how predatory F2P games have been over the years especially since they have been known to have kids spend thousands of dollars on these games. Just because it is in a game that is $60 upfront doesn't mean anything its the practice itself they seem to be targeting. If people are only outraged because of Battlefront 2 they have their priorities screwed up since companies like King have targeted and taken advantage of children for years and that seems to be the key issue with this legislation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 13:30:16 GMT
Well, it should be interesting to see how this plays out. I bet other publishers are cursing EA now for potentially killing their golden goose. That's a really good point. If publishers were not following this before, for whatever reason, I bet they are now. It would be great though for EA to become the scapegoat of the industry for an actual, legitimate reason. They done fucked up this time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 13:44:48 GMT
Probably not, they are probably wondering why they are raising such an issue over Battlefront and completely ignored how predatory F2P games have been over the years especially since they have been known to have kids spend thousands of dollars on these games. Just because it is in a game that is $60 upfront doesn't mean anything its the practice itself they seem to be targeting. If people are only outraged because of Battlefront 2 they have their priorities screwed up since companies like King have targeted and taken advantage of children for years and that seems to be the key issue with this legislation. It's less that people weren't objecting to that and more that BF2 was the last straw that initiated a response.
That said, while I agree that lootboxes are almost indistinguishable in their appeal to gambling, I don't want to see governments starts regulating video games, because it's not going to stop at just gambling...
If government regulation brings to light the dirty practice of exclusives on consoles, and refusal to multi platform, I say, bring it on! I will hold the sign myself then. Erm... hashtag and retweet, that is.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 22, 2017 13:51:02 GMT
It's less that people weren't objecting to that and more that BF2 was the last straw that initiated a response.
That said, while I agree that lootboxes are almost indistinguishable in their appeal to gambling, I don't want to see governments starts regulating video games, because it's not going to stop at just gambling...
If government regulation brings to light the dirty practice of exclusives on consoles, and refusal to multi platform, I say, bring it on! I will hold the sign myself then. Erm... hashtag and retweet, that is. Regulation doesn't bring anything to light. investigation does. Regulation only brings red tape.
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 22, 2017 13:57:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 13:58:26 GMT
If government regulation brings to light the dirty practice of exclusives on consoles, and refusal to multi platform, I say, bring it on! I will hold the sign myself then. Erm... hashtag and retweet, that is. That's the main difference between the authoritarian and libertarian mindsets I suppose.
I don't see here anything objectively "evil", nor do I see greed as "evil", I'm merely advocating my side of the equation while EA is advocating theirs.
And because I don't presume to speak in the name of absolute truth and justice or anything as pompous as that, I don't think that I have the right to demand that the government make rules that will back up my opinion.
The fact that authoritarianism eventually turns against you as well is another thing to consider. (today it's something you agree with, but tomorrow it wouldn't be)
Regulations are not authoritarian. They are necessary for the functioning democratic society, and transparent self-regulation is also beneficial. The anti-monopoly rules and regulations are there for good reasons, and testing exclusive releases against them is not authoritarian, and directing the companies to use the technology in their possession for the benefit of all gamers, and providing the gamers with the choice of the device they want to use for gaming is the right move. I don’t think that the gaming industry even have their own self regulating organ that issues the best industry practices and guidance that the developers that want to be perceived as enlightened and good-oriented can join. Consumer protection and consumer advocacy is well within the laws of the democratic society. If the industry comes under review for how it treats its consumers, it should be exhaustive and look at all their practices, not just focus solely at the RNG based goods. I mean, are there a gaming industry best practices issued by the industry?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 14:08:41 GMT
Regulations are not authoritarian. They are necessary for the functioning democratic society. The anti-monopoly rules and regulations are there for good reasons, and testing exclusive releases against them is not authoritarian, and directing the companies to use the technology in their possession for the benefit of all gamers, and providing the gamers with the choice of the device they want to use for gaming is the right move. I don’t think that the gaming industry even have their own self regulating organ that issues the best industry practices and guidance that the developers that want to be perceived as enlightened and good-oriented can join. Sure, but there's a difference between limited regulation and anti-monopoly rules, to regulating the content of games themselves which I something that I most definitely don't want to see. I'd say that regulating the gambling aspects is somewhere between those two in severity.
Just like the slippery slope "fallacy" was proven to be correct in the case of corporate greed and MT's, I suspect that regulation can get worse, and when regulation gets into effect you can't get rid of it with a bit of internet outrage, certainly not as easily as what just happened with BF2.
Content of the games is not under question here. The content in the games is actually already regulated, and is reflected in the games’ ratings. The industry’s practices in respect to selling and distribution of their products, as a whole or as the parts of thereoff is what under scrutiny when you review the practice of microtransactions. I argue that the exclusive titles for consoles is a practice that is just as much anticonsummer if not more so in nature as placing an RNG cash value to progression aspirations.
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 22, 2017 15:05:05 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Well, two things.
(1) On Gambling Depends on a country's gambling definition. Obviously Belgium's Minister disagrees with you. Also, he is right about protecting children from gambling addiction. Add the fact that SWBF2 is designed to encourage if not a "MUST buy" these loot boxes to be competitive, I see it as a no brainer for his decision. Remember that the Star Wars brand is aimed at children. Lucas Films, btw, supported the decision to suspend MTs because "players must come first" (paraphrase here). And, Disney certainly wants to avoid being associated with children & gambling in the same sentence.
This shitstorm may die down soon enough and from a regulatory perspective, restrictions may also never come to light. Personally, I hope they do.
(2) F2P Coercive Monetization tricks. SWBF2 took the f2p monetization tricks from mobile games (smartphone, tablets) to the mainstream. DICE took EA's directive to the extreme with the now known blowback.
Most interesting are the monetization tricks which we all should be familiar with when assessing the game's MTs mechanics. For interesting / explanatory reads,
go here:
At the end of the day, I'm so against the blatant exploitation of the gamer community. There are other ways to make a decent and moral profit. EA's mistake was to take the monetization directive to the edge. In doing so, EA/DICE crossed a line. Especially with a Disney's marquee property aimed at children. That, imo, is EA's biggest sin.
(🌸=◡=)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 15:30:43 GMT
Well, I am back to my optimistic self, and thinking, maybe it's for the best that it blew up with Battlefront, and maybe they will work out something less grindy and coercive for Anthem, so Anthem/Bio will benefit. Fingers crossed.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 22, 2017 15:30:46 GMT
Probably not, they are probably wondering why they are raising such an issue over Battlefront and completely ignored how predatory F2P games have been over the years especially since they have been known to have kids spend thousands of dollars on these games. Just because it is in a game that is $60 upfront doesn't mean anything its the practice itself they seem to be targeting. If people are only outraged because of Battlefront 2 they have their priorities screwed up since companies like King have targeted and taken advantage of children for years and that seems to be the key issue with this legislation. It's less that people weren't objecting to that and more that BF2 was the last straw that initiated a response.
That said, while I agree that lootboxes are almost indistinguishable in their appeal to gambling, I don't want to see governments starts regulating video games, because it's not going to stop at just gambling...
Fair, I just don't think publishers will focus on EA as the reason why all this regulation happened. There was a lot of garbage dealing with mtx in the last couple of months from Shadow of War, Battlefront 2, and Activision's patent. All of these things in my opinion were the same in nature to get more people to buy more mtx. I think focusing solely on EA is doing the entire conversation as disservice.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 22, 2017 15:31:50 GMT
-(_ANTHEM_)-
Well, two things.
(1) On Gambling Depends on a country's gambling definition. Obviously Belgium's Minister disagrees with you. Also, he is right about protecting children from gambling addiction. Add the fact that SWBF2 is designed to encourage if not a "MUST buy" these loot boxes to be competitive, I see it as a no brainer for his decision. Remember that the Star Wars brand is aimed at children. Lucas Films, btw, supported the decision to suspend MTs because "players must come first" (paraphrase here). And, Disney certainly wants to avoid being associated with children & gambling in the same sentence.
This shitstorm may die down soon enough and from a regulatory perspective, restrictions may also never come to light. Personally, I hope they do.
(2) F2P Coercive Monetization tricks. SWBF2 took the f2p monetization tricks from mobile games (smartphone, tablets) to the mainstream. DICE took EA's directive to the extreme with the now known blowback.
Most interesting are the monetization tricks which we all should be familiar with when assessing the game's MTs mechanics. For interesting / explanatory reads,
go here:
At the end of the day, I'm so against the blatant exploitation of the gamer community. There are other ways to make a decent and moral profit. EA's mistake was to take the monetization directive to the edge. In doing so, EA/DICE crossed a line. Especially with a Disney's marquee property aimed at children. That, imo, is EA's biggest sin.
(🌸=◡=)
Don't leave Disney out of the blame game here, they had a mobile game for Jurassic Park that some kid spent over $6,000 in mtx with that game. So if anything Disney should have known better already.
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Post by JiM on Nov 22, 2017 17:14:22 GMT
MTX's are here for the long haul, I'm sure of it, it all depends how they are used. Which all depends on which ones we support with our wallets and game-time.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 22, 2017 18:07:11 GMT
It's less that people weren't objecting to that and more that BF2 was the last straw that initiated a response.
That said, while I agree that lootboxes are almost indistinguishable in their appeal to gambling, I don't want to see governments starts regulating video games, because it's not going to stop at just gambling...
Fair, I just don't think publishers will focus on EA as the reason why all this regulation happened. There was a lot of garbage dealing with mtx in the last couple of months from Shadow of War, Battlefront 2, and Activision's patent. All of these things in my opinion were the same in nature to get more people to buy more mtx. I think focusing solely on EA is doing the entire conversation as disservice. It's true - people mostly talk about EA and BF2 because this was the straw that broke the camel's back, but the resentment against mtx/loot crates has been growing throughout months and requires a wider debate than about EA/Dice. ... Though what they did with BF2 was definitely going overboard. It all comes to details - I don't think people would lose their mind about pay-to-win stuff if it was a singleplayer title. If someone would want to pay for a booster for their SP campaign (assuming that the game doesn't turn into a grind-fest to incentivize people to make a purchase to speed things up) it wouldn't be such an issue as giving an obvious advantage in a multiplayer shooter to those willing to spend money on it.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Nov 22, 2017 18:49:46 GMT
Sadly the guy in that video makes a lot of sense. I doubt we'll see many SP-focused games from EA/Bioware. I wonder if even DA4 will be mostly SP. One thing I disagree with is blaming Anthem for changing Bioware. It's the other way around. Bioware changed, whether through EA pressure or just the realities of the current competitive AAA environment, and Anthem is one of the consequences of that change. Also, not mentioning DA4 at all, let alone as the exception to his "never see a traditional RPG ever again from Bioware", or at least claiming that it won't be instead of leaving it implied, loses credibility in my view.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 22, 2017 19:09:56 GMT
Sadly the guy in that video makes a lot of sense. I doubt we'll see many SP-focused games from EA/Bioware. I wonder if even DA4 will be mostly SP. One thing I disagree with is blaming Anthem for changing Bioware. It's the other way around. Bioware changed, whether through EA pressure or just the realities of the current competitive AAA environment, and Anthem is one of the consequences of that change. Also, not mentioning DA4 at all, let alone as the exception to his "never see a traditional RPG ever again from Bioware", or at least claiming that it won't be instead of leaving it implied, loses credibility in my view. Did they really change? I don't see many people acknowledging that Bioware seem to have always been a fan of online/co-op play. BW games had multiplayer component long before it became industry standard. Their first game from 1996 had one. So did Baldur's Gate. The reason SWOTOR exists is because they've been wanting to create a MMORPG for a long time. They've experimented with multiplayer prototype prior to DAI because, as Darrah says it, they believe that "multiplayer is actually at the heart of many role-playing experiences". Now, I'm not going to say that their decision to make Anthem was purely creative, as it's glaringly obvious that there are specific trends on the market. But those trends don't necessarily have to be in opposition to what they generally like to do or experiment with - which may even be the reason why Bioware is confident they're creating something awesome or why they've decided to tackle another IP despite having a slew of successful franchises under their belt. We shall see whether they'd succeed.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 22, 2017 19:49:46 GMT
Sure, but there's a difference between limited regulation and anti-monopoly rules, to regulating the content of games themselves which I something that I most definitely don't want to see. I'd say that regulating the gambling aspects is somewhere between those two in severity.
Just like the slippery slope "fallacy" was proven to be correct in the case of corporate greed and MT's, I suspect that regulation can get worse, and when regulation gets into effect you can't get rid of it with a bit of internet outrage, certainly not as easily as what just happened with BF2.
Content of the games is not under question here. The content in the games is actually already regulated, and is reflected in the games’ ratings. The industry’s practices in respect to selling and distribution of their products, as a whole or as the parts of thereoff is what under scrutiny when you review the practice of microtransactions. I argue that the exclusive titles for consoles is a practice that is just as much anticonsummer if not more so in nature as placing an RNG cash value to progression aspirations. Not sure if you're overlooking the complete picture. Exclusivity sure is shitty practice. By the operator of the platform - not the publisher. If we're talking consoles, the publishers have to pay to market their games on consoles if I remember correctly. And there surely is no way to force anyone to market where they don't want to.
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 22, 2017 19:51:19 GMT
Content of the games is not under question here. The content in the games is actually already regulated, and is reflected in the games’ ratings. The industry’s practices in respect to selling and distribution of their products, as a whole or as the parts of thereoff is what under scrutiny when you review the practice of microtransactions. I argue that the exclusive titles for consoles is a practice that is just as much anticonsummer if not more so in nature as placing an RNG cash value to progression aspirations. Not sure if you're overlooking the complete picture. Exclusivity sure is shitty practice. By the operator of the platform - not the publisher. If we're talking consoles, the publishers have to pay to market their games on consoles if I remember correctly. And there surely is no way to force anyone to market where they don't want to. Also, how would some publisher / dev be forced for publishing on a platform they didn't plan to distribute to?
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 22, 2017 20:26:02 GMT
Did they really change? I don't see many people acknowledging that Bioware seem to have always been a fan of online/co-op play. I'd say they did. They shifted their focus from SP games that had a MP aspect to, well, SWTOR and Anthem. And their latest SP titles had a larger focus on MP, and in the case of ME:A even hampered the design of the skill system in SP so it would fit better with the MP. I don't think you've read the rest of my comment, given that I've explicitly mentioned SWOTOR and how they wanted to develop MMORPG for quite some time, or that their games had multiplayer or co-op long before it was industry standard.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 22, 2017 20:48:19 GMT
I don't think you've read the rest of my comment, given that I've explicitly mentioned SWOTOR and how they wanted to develop MMORPG for quite some time, or that their games had multiplayer or co-op long before it was industry standard. I did.
It's just that theoretical aspirations aside, as far as the products that they actually produced, I think that over time there was definitely a shift.
Whether this shift was something they meant to do from the beginning or not isn't really something I can say for certain, nor is it particularly relevant for me at this point. There's always a shift. When ME and DA franchises started, how many people do you think complained about "Bioware not being what it was anymore"? Just like there's a 'shift' with Anthem, there will be other shifts in the future as well, not just in case of Bioware or EA (provided they are here to stay for years to come) but gaming industry in general.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2017 21:10:54 GMT
Not sure if you're overlooking the complete picture. Exclusivity sure is shitty practice. By the operator of the platform - not the publisher. If we're talking consoles, the publishers have to pay to market their games on consoles if I remember correctly. And there surely is no way to force anyone to market where they don't want to. Also, how would some publisher / dev be forced for publishing on a platform they didn't plan to distribute to? Well, we can play any movie on any DVD player device, no matter which company made it, so we should be able to steam any game on any console. They can stream Console games on PC with Playstation Now, so it should be possible to make games cross-compatible. Nobody makes movies that can only be played on a Sony DVD player! I am sure there is a fairly straightforward technological solution that would allow you to own a digital copy of a game that can be played on different devices if the industry was willing to do its homework. And, well, as painful as it is for my HZD prospects, the going forward basis is okay. But something has to be done.
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 22, 2017 22:19:59 GMT
Did they really change? I don't see many people acknowledging that Bioware seem to have always been a fan of online/co-op play. I'd say they did. They shifted their focus from SP games that had a MP aspect to, well, SWTOR and Anthem. And their latest SP titles had a larger focus on MP, and in the case of ME:A even hampered the design of the skill system in SP so it would fit better with the MP. I disagree that MP was the reason for the changes to the skill system. That to me was due to people wanting to have a completely flexible class system for I saw those comments a lot after Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. Now if you want to blame the removal of time dilation effects that is true for they couldn't implement those in multiplayer. To be perfectly honest I preferred the skill layouts that Andromeda's MP had over the single player system. Edit: Unless you are talking about the few abilities to be chosen, but again I am not sure if that was to do with MP, for in ME3's MP they had restricted skills as well. Sometimes bad design decisions are just that without needing a reason.
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August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 23, 2017 0:19:51 GMT
Not sure if you're overlooking the complete picture. Snip -(_ANTHEM_)-
Speaking of a picture. Take a look at a new but appropriate EA banner.
Link: i.imgur.com/1gXXP2p.png(🌸=◡=)
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